Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 that way hiccup does what he thinks is bad but necessary and later realises it was worse than he thought and he has to do better…. maybe toothless flys away and comes back to thank him, but he doesn’t recognise her as a human since he didn’t see the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 better growth, better drama, and slowly seeding in bits of the world. unless you want him to keep toothless the whole time. If he doesn’t, they could keep almost running into each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 I admit my original plan had been for Toothless to stick with Hiccup, but your suggestion of Toothless masquerading as a human when she and Hiccup go to Berk. Though now I'm struck by the thought, 'what if Hiccup and Astrid were, unknown to them at the time Hiccup 'disappeared', betrothed to each other, and when Astrid and Hiccup reunite, Toothless (who I need to think of a human codename for... maybe Tanya?..) introduces herself, not incorrectly, as Hiccup's girlfriend? Now that I think of it, if Toothless where with Hiccup the whole time, perhaps she should be Hiccup's first time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 I like the Astrid idea, and if she does run into him like i suggested she could mention that she’s getting brave and strong to take back her prince from the dragons (what her parents told her happened) or something. when she finds out who toothless is it would be fun. I like the idea of toothless being his first time, but i also feel the absence route is good. how about compromise! what if toothless used to keep an eye on hiccup gorwing up, but as the ‘mystery girl’ and got called away befpre the overlord events started? so the day before, he and toothless have his first time. he then thinks of ‘mystery girl’ several times during his trip, and hopes she doesn’t mind him accidentally picking up mistresses (who are seducing him partly because the sorceresses are training them to). he’d need a reason not to have her name, or he could jokingly call her toothless because she fights with him a lot and bites, but doesn’t do any damage. they know it’s play-fighting. he could wish he got her real name over the course of the adventure, and look forward to coming home to her. part of the reason she’s gone is she missed him leaving, couldn;t find him and was driven away by the old overlord. that said, i can probably think of a good plotline with her there, but well, we have mirage. at this point not recognising transformed people is omething of a running gag. he could claim a frog’s tiana and no one would beleive it because it’s him saying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: I like the Astrid idea, and if she does run into him like i suggested she could mention that she’s getting brave and strong to take back her prince from the dragons (what her parents told her happened) or something. when she finds out who toothless is it would be fun. I like the idea of toothless being his first time, but i also feel the absence route is good. how about compromise! what if toothless used to keep an eye on hiccup gorwing up, but as the ‘mystery girl’ and got called away befpre the overlord events started? so the day before, he and toothless have his first time. he then thinks of ‘mystery girl’ several times during his trip, and hopes she doesn’t mind him accidentally picking up mistresses (who are seducing him partly because the sorceresses are training them to). he’d need a reason not to have her name, or he could jokingly call her toothless because she fights with him a lot and bites, but doesn’t do any damage. they know it’s play-fighting. he could wish he got her real name over the course of the adventure, and look forward to coming home to her. part of the reason she’s gone is she missed him leaving, couldn;t find him and was driven away by the old overlord. that said, i can probably think of a good plotline with her there, but well, we have mirage. at this point not recognising transformed people is omething of a running gag. he could claim a frog’s tiana and no one would beleive it because it’s him saying it This is a possibility… Going back a topic though, you mentioned the possibility of having Hiccup visit Pixie Hollow during the events of the first game, not the second, what did have in mind for the force that drove the fairies into Hiccup's lands or drew his attention to their's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 well, he IS visiting a corrupted forest. imagine making his way through the level and suddenly crashing through to a well-lit non evil part that the fairies are fighting back in. to be honest i thought he would pick up the tinker fairy a bit earlier (possibly at a slave market), and she would recognise the place as near her home, begging him to check up on it and try to save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, Strange_idea said: well, he IS visiting a corrupted forest. imagine making his way through the level and suddenly crashing through to a well-lit non evil part that the fairies are fighting back in. to be honest i thought he would pick up the tinker fairy a bit earlier (possibly at a slave market), and she would recognise the place as near her home, begging him to check up on it and try to save it. In hindsight that should have been obvious… Also just wish to clear something up, earlier when you said something about 'dark tales', where you referring to Overlord:Dark Legends, which I've never actually played since it only came out for Wii, or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 ummm. yes. sorry thing is, i was mostly uing it as a placeholder since by inverting the plotline there’s a similarity to the dragon viking conflict. that one i didn;t mean to follow very closely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 Okay, as I said just wanted to double check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 I can check it for usuable stuff if you want, but i think the story is stronger for stepping away from overlord for a little bit. makes the world seem a bit more complex and lets us explore it beyond one part of the crossover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: I can check it for usuable stuff if you want, but i think the story is stronger for stepping away from overlord for a little bit. makes the world seem a bit more complex and lets us explore it beyond one part of the crossover I'd appreciate it, but no rush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) okay, checked it over and not too much happens, the first overlord is chosen, he sets elves and dwarves against each other, tricked his siblings and enslaved them, the jester is set up, gnarl is brought in. however all the characters are either long dead or ones we’ve adapted out (can i say we? not too much?). So, what if we take the opportunity to have a parallel story bit. while hiccup has his dragon adventure, every now and again, we flash to the first overlord back in the past learning bitter lessons and turning into the heartless evil guy overlords are meant to be, while hiccup contemplates recent developments that do the opposite to him. there’d need to be some changes of course to fit stuff like the sourceresses, and since we have no jester, an offhand mention of his hat being damaged beyond repair would be a nice nod to that. also, had an idea for toothless-girl. what if hiccup thought she was a wild girl, as in a raised by wolves wild girl who’d have no name, but was still his best friend. he hoped he could find that black fragon again one day and show her, even. he could think this even if she did have clothes and armour, reasoning she stole it or got it from her dead family before being raised by wolves. or he could just think she was a local village outcast, and she didn’t want to talk about it. occasionally he’d offer to go to her village and tell them how great she was, but she turned him down, not telling him the truth. can she speak? by the end i imagine she could, but do dragons speak human? it’s be cute to see her learn. maybe she just starts as the wild girl, and hiccup wins her over by scolding her for trapping dragons…. Edited June 1, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 I honestly expected it to take more looking over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 ... I admit that the possibility of language barriers hadn't occurred to me given that everyone in the games seems to speak the same 'common tongue'… Though on the topic of people not knowing about dragons' shape shifting, what of Hiccup and 'group' knew, but the Vikings and Dragon Hunters didn't, since dragons never let the two civilizations they were at war with see them in their weaker forms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) if toothless was as big a deal to him as you say, and i agree she should be. do you think he’d even THINK of working with dragon hunters? with her there to remind him? and probably them commenting on her? i have an idea, but things first... there’s a longstanding tradition of dragons secretly taking human form, just not in the part of the world this is set…. except the lyndwyrm but that doesn’t count. i largely think that as ‘animal people’ the dragons would be more likely to have their own tongue, particularly since they don’t have the co-operation and trade history with humans that elves and dwarves do. given mirage we have room for a tradition of him failing to recognise transformed people which could be funny, and dramtic at the right places, so i don’t think he should know, but i DO think his group should know, though mirage canno tell him at first, then it slips her mind, and the sorceresses are enjoying toothlesses suffering. plus, it’s good to not resolve some conflicts right away. I don’t usually like suffering, but this is a nice romantic ironic tragedy. Thought of a way we can have toothless and no toothless at the same time. Toothless gives him his first night, confesses she loves him, tells him she has to go as well then secretly turns into a dragon to accompany him as a mighty protector (and because he always wanted to see it again), though fearing what he would think she makes sure he cannot see. he’s overjoyed to see the beast and to find it’s friendly, and ironically names it after his best friend and first love, toothless (she’s overjoyed) however, toothless is injured during the adventure at a point before he meets the dragon traders, and dropped off at the tower to recover (this also raises drama, and for irony points, mirage is rescued in this time). afterwards (without toothless’s influence and out of fear of more happening to her, hiccup makes the deal with the dragon traders), before he can tell her, she’s driven of by the overlord, which means she doesn’t find out until later when they meet again. then she tells Astrid she’ his girlfriend, then she finds out about the dragon traders, drama, hiccup makes up with Astrid who helps him make up with toothless, and after THAT adventure’s done they all set out to dismantle and rebuilt the dragon hunters as the dragon keepers. can mirage change back to a cat at will? it’ be useful and i think it’s in character for her o make hiccup carry her, draped around his shoulders like a scarf while snarking at him Edited June 1, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: if toothless was as big a deal to him as you say, and i agree she should be. do you think he’d even THINK of working with dragon hunters? with her there to remind him? and probably them commenting on her? i have an idea, but things first... there’s a longstanding tradition of dragons secretly taking human form, just not in the part of the world this is set…. except the lyndwyrm but that doesn’t count. i laargely think that as ‘animal people’ the dragons would be more likely to have their own tongue, particularly since they don’t have the co-operation and trade history with humans that elves and dwarves do. given mirage we have room for a tradition of him failing to recognise transformed people which could be funny, and dramtic at the right places, so i don’t think he should know, but i DO think his group should know, though mirage canno tell him at first, then it slips her mind, and the sorceresses are enjoying tootlesses suffering. plus, it’s good to not resolve some conflicts right away. I don’t usually like suffering, but this is a nice romantic ironic tragedy. Thought of a way we can have toothless and no toothless at the same time. Toothless gives him his first night, confesses she loves him, tells him she has to go as well then secretly turns into a dragon to accompany him as a mighty protector (and because he always wanted to see it), though fearing what he would think she makes sure he cannot see. he’s overjoyed to see the beast and to find it’s friendly, and ironically names it after his best friend and first love, toothless (she’s overjoyed) however, toothless is injured during the adventure at a point before he meets the dragon traders, and dropped off at the tower to recover (this also raises drama, and for irony points, mirage is rescued in this time). afterwards (without toothlesses influence and out of fear of more happening to her, hiccup makes the deal with the dragon traders), before he can tell her, she’s driven of by the overlord, which means she doesn’t find out until later when they meet again. then she tells Astrid she’ his girlfriend, then she finds out about the dragon traders, drama, hiccup makes up with Astrid who helps him make up with toothless, and after THAT adventure’s done they all set out to dismantle and rebuilt the dragon hunters as the dragon keepers. can mirage change back to a cat at will? it’ be useful and i think it’s in character for her o make hiccup carry her, draped around his shoulders like a scarf while snarking at him You make a good point about Toothless' reluctance for Hiccup to deal with the Hunters... my vague idea was for her to be mollified by the fact Hiccup treats the bought dragons well as opposed to slaughtering them like the people they COULD have been sold to would have done, as well as the long term plan of the double cross... Edited June 1, 2018 by Jwsponky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 what do you think of the ‘get her out of the way for it by injuring her’ plan? and the human/dragon irony thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 hiccup still probably plans a double cross, but the shock changes his mind to completely take them apart and make something better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: what do you think of the ‘get her out of the way for it by injuring her’ plan? and the human/dragon irony thing I admit to being kind of neutral to it… Admittedly this is changing the topic completely again, but I have been struck by an idle idea about Minion biology… Given that I intend for the Minions (and the Mounts) to be an all female race, social insects taken to the extreme, possibly with the passing remark in story that the original Overlord used ants or bees as one of the 'base ingredients' when making the Minions, what if the Minions hatched from eggs layer by a queen Minion, one for each tribe, with the Overlord serving the purpose of a drone, 'fertilizing' the eggs with life force? Not sure what purpose the hives would serve in this idea... maybe they produce a gel/slime that the larval Minions feed upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 hmmm….. i was going to ask something that actually works well with that. I agree, and i think that hiccup should have only ONE of each mutant minion, for better tactical sake and beacuse it’s easier to remember them. think of them as early-stage queen minions, you can say later that they are gestating eggs, but at least at first you should probably stick to just one of each. also, it might be an idea to describe them as insect-like to further it. you said the minions wouldn’t be sxualised, just a colony, so what if they were insect or bee-like chitinous creatures? with the extra features on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 sorry about the dragon idea, i like to have long-term character goals. i think there’s a good outline at least there, but if you don’t like it you can go with something else, or i can work on it a bit more. It’s getting late, i ‘ll have to drop out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: hmmm….. i was going to ask something that actually works well with that. I agree, and i think that hiccup should have only ONE of each mutant minion, for better tactical sake and beacuse it’s easier to remember them. think of them as early-stage queen minions, you can say later that they are gestating eggs, but at least at first you should probably stick to just one of each. also, it might be an idea to describe them as insect-like to further it. you said the minions wouldn’t be sxualised, just a colony, so what if they were insect or bee-like chitinous creatures? with the extra features on top Uh... When you say 'mutation' are you referring to the O.C. tribes I've added to the story? Because my plan that in hindsight I forgot to mention was for Hiccup's forces to contain equal numbers of each of the ten tribes, added by the artistic liberty that life force doesn't come in any color and can hatch the egg of any Minion tribe, with three orbs required for the horse sized Mounts, allowing Hiccup's army to be prepared for any obstacle, taking pains to make the Minions a disciplined fighting force instead of the disorganized, but savagely effective in one on one combat, rabble their instincts drive them to be, with the basic unit being a group of ten Minions and their Mounts, one from each tribe, that always watch each others backs. On the topic of 'sexualizing' the Minions, I am torn/flip flopping between depicting them as similar to the famous Xenomorphs in appearance, which gave me the initial idea of including the queen caste, and as an army of Amazons that jokingly flirt with Hiccup while off duty, only for Hiccup to not pick up on it, to their vague annoyance and bemusement… Night then Edited June 1, 2018 by Jwsponky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange_idea Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) that army system sounds good. hmm, regular minions could be workers, the queens decide loyalties. i like gag, and if we repeat it they could satart running into the actual mistresses when they try, who aren’t amused I’m going to keep at the toothless/hiccup thing, i believe their relationship should have more depth and nuance and i feel that by not resolving it in the first game, but keeping it prominent we hook the reader better. plus it helps set up a few conflicts and more resolutions later. plus i got this imagin in my head of a king hiccup with his dragon-queen curled around the back of his throne. or some kind of large bed-basket were fullgrown toothless can hold her dragon horde of hiccup and girls. actually, had a thought from that, what if toothless approves of hiccup’s accidental girl-hunting seeing it as collecting a dragon’s horde, and as king of kings he collects kingdoms, but she doesn’t loose site of the bond aspect and still places a lot of value on her relation with him. (plus she likes most of the girls) she could have trouble with sharing him at first, but that could be how she resolves it. she has a bit of an edge as one of the most valued peices of the treasure though, which probably helps. night Edited June 1, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwsponky Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 On the topic of worker Minions, I had toyed with the idea of Pink Minions, resembling Browns (whose main 'trick' would be being swiftest of foot) with blunter teeth and claws, as well as bright pink hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxWench Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 15 hours ago, Strange_idea said: Excuse me thebooblover, is there a beta reader syatrm in the main site? There is a thread in the forums to request a beta reader, or to offer your services as a beta reader. The archive itself doesn’t have that sort of function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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