Snake_King's Story Discussion Thread

[Snake_King]

Indeed, what would be most important in a more mature series would be the characters undergoing development, both physically and mentally.  For Grandpa Max and his death, I’d imagine a story arc where at first he contemplates his life and how he’s been through so much and lived so long, talks to Ben about his future, and then gets involved in a fight with a major villain before dying a heroic death, taking the bad guy with him.  It would end his story and give him a dignified and meaningful death, fighting for others and defending his loved ones.

This Ben 10 anime reboot, would it be something you’d produce, or is it another fanfic idea where Ben is depicted in the style of anime with a lot of the tropes?

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, that was really close to how I pictured it, I feel Vilgax would be the perfect baddie for killing Max, maybe he sacrifices his life for Ben when Ben recklessly fights him without thinking, Ben blames himself for Max's death as well as wanting to take down Vilgax once and for all.

It would be a bit of both, I love to write it, but had been having computer problems, I have an interesting idea for a samurai version of the Forever Knights, I also got ideas of them being heroes and all female. (like the Forever Knights all being male)

 

[Snake_King]

Sounds about right for how the situation with Max’s death would go, as well as the fallout of the event.

Would this anime reboot have sex in it or would it be more PG-13?

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, I also want to make Ben's parents Plumbers (also known as SECT which stands for Special Extraterrestrial Containment Team, it's based on a fic called Watch Boy & Lucky girl by csgt on Fanfiction.net), and Sandra Tennyson is a single mother in my version because Carl died protecting her.

PG-13 would be better, it would have some ecchi moments. I would picture the art style being that of Nozomu Tamaki (he does sexy ladies)

I will try and get some character bios for the Forever Samurai soon, at least the main ones.

[Snake_King]

I see. Would this have an overarching story or would it be episodic?

Also, if you could, there is a certain trope typically seen in anime that I'd like to see avoided if possible, one that is rather infamous, as explained by the people behind Anime America on YouTube:

The Perceived Pervert - the main character, probably male, is carrying on with his day, when he suddenly slips. And wouldn't you know it? He mistakingly falls onto a young woman. At the same time, he accidentally touches her boobs or brushes up against her crotch, which makes him blush in embarrassment, and makes the girl freak out. From this moment onwards, the girl will beat the living daylights out of him, thinking she's justified from being assaulted by a pervert, and will continue to ruin his days because she believes, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is a pervert. This cliché is stupid and needs to stop. There is nothing original or good about this at all. In some cases, it's the Tsundere who will abuse the guy no matter what he or others say. In other cases, the main character will accidentally see the girl naked, and she will believe she can never remarry since a strange man saw her naked, and that means she's no longer pure. Regardless, whenever the girl's purity is compromised, she must then find a way to punish the man who "assaulted" her, and then mistreat him in order to avenge herself from being molested...EVEN THOUGH IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!! 

[Rexfan12345]

It can stay episodic, it will have arcs like Omniverse as well as more character stories. Gets boring to focus just on Ben in the shows. It will still have a plot with a underdog hero becoming a true hero. 

I see what you mean, The Perceived Pervert trope can get old in anime for a while, I can see Gwen have a Tsundere like personality, but isn't incredibly unlikable like most Tsundere in anime. She teases Ben, but doesn't beat him up.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Rexfan12345

[Rexfan12345]

Anyway, how's the Avatar/Ben 10 story going? I'll understand if you gave it up. 

[Praetor]

     Too much dignity?  We write erotic fan fiction about a cartoon character.  I don't think the show would have benefited from a tonal shift besides returning to the more serious though not necessarily dark format of the original series.  They should have just kept it going after Omniverse, we already know how the story ends.

[Snake_King]

9 hours ago, Rexfan12345 said:

It can stay episodic, it will have arcs like Omniverse as well as more character stories. Gets boring to focus just on Ben in the shows. It will still have a plot with a underdog hero becoming a true hero. 

I see what you mean, The Perceived Pervert trope can get old in anime for a while, I can see Gwen have a Tsundere like personality, but isn't incredibly unlikable like most Tsundere in anime. She teases Ben, but doesn't beat him up.

Yes, a bit of focus on other characters from time to time would do the story some good.

If Gwen was a Tsundere, would that mean she’d eventually have romantic feelings for Ben along with the other girls?

15 minutes ago, Rexfan12345 said:

Anyway, how's the Avatar/Ben 10 story going? I'll understand if you gave it up. 

I haven’t given up, it’s just on hold until I get some things in real life sorted out, and what I have written is a bit lengthy, so I need to find a way to shorten it up.

 

2 minutes ago, Praetor said:

     Too much dignity?  We write erotic fan fiction about a cartoon character.  I don't think the show would have benefited from a tonal shift besides returning to the more serious though not necessarily dark format of the original series.  They should have just kept it going after Omniverse, we already know how the story ends.

I guess I shouldn’t have said “too much dignity,” but rather I just didn’t want to see another dumbed down reboot.  And yes, a back-to-basics route in terms of tone would have done the show some good, and it would’ve been better if they’d just continued with Omniverse.

[Rexfan12345]

6 minutes ago, Praetor said:

     Too much dignity?  We write erotic fan fiction about a cartoon character.  I don't think the show would have benefited from a tonal shift besides returning to the more serious though not necessarily dark format of the original series.  They should have just kept it going after Omniverse, we already know how the story ends.

I've seen the episodes, they are not bad, yeah it has a lot of comedy, but still does have action, I honestly think it has a chance, but with that horrid Teen Titans Go! taking over the CN, I'm not sure.

[Rexfan12345]

2 minutes ago, Snake_King said:

I guess I shouldn’t have said “too much dignity,” but rather I just didn’t want to see another dumbed down reboot.  And yes, a back-to-basics route in terms of tone would have done the show some good, and it would’ve been better if they’d just continued with Omniverse.

At least it's better than most CAN reboots, it feels more like the original than what TTG and PPG being nothing like there previous shows. I honestly want a reboot featuring a teen Ben finding the watch instead, but I don't see that happening because of Cartoon Network being idiots. 

[Snake_King]

Just now, Rexfan12345 said:

At least it's better than most CAN reboots, it feels more like the original than what TTG and PPG being nothing like there previous shows. I honestly want a reboot featuring a teen Ben finding the watch instead, but I don't see that happening because of Cartoon Network being idiots. 

Like I said, a lot of TV network producers are firm believers in the “Viewers Are Morons” trope.  I’ve seen quite a few of mature-minded shows I like replaced or followed up with dumber things.  Examples being:

• Spectacular Spider-Man – Ultimate Spider-Man
• Young Justice & Teen Titans – Teen Titans Go
• Disney’s Gargoyles season 3
• Transformers: Prime – Transformers: Robots In Disguise.

The list goes on.

[Snake_King]

Because I’ve been burned by those experiences, I didn’t feel like giving the Ben 10 reboot a chance.  And yes, a reboot where Ben finds the watch while as a teenager would’ve been interesting.  Certainly changed things up a bit.

[Rexfan12345]

5 minutes ago, Snake_King said:

Because I’ve been burned by those experiences, I didn’t feel like giving the Ben 10 reboot a chance.  And yes, a reboot where Ben finds the watch while as a teenager would’ve been interesting.  Certainly changed things up a bit.

I agree with you, sadly it seems most Networks won't learn there lesson and give us something better. Reason why Japan with anime is becoming more popular these days because they still use complexity and story in their animation unlike America. Reason why I feel Ben 10 should be remade as a anime series.

[Snake_King]

7 minutes ago, Rexfan12345 said:

I agree with you, sadly it seems most Networks won't learn there lesson and give us something better. Reason why Japan with anime is becoming more popular these days because they still use complexity and story in their animation unlike America. Reason why I feel Ben 10 should be remade as a anime series.

Well, the common assumption in America is that “animation is only for kids,” and since kids are commonly assumed to be stupid and in need of sheltering, the animation shows reflect that.

And yes, Japan does admittedly offer more mature storytelling and complexity in their anime shows, but even anime is not without its flaws.  Like the Tsundere and Perceived Pervert tropes we were talking about.  There’s also some double standard tropes we see both in anime and in western animation, such as one of my least favorite:

The Unfair Sex – When a woman does something wrong, it's okay. When a man does something wrong, it's just plain wrong.

The website TV Tropes lists how it tends to play out in anime, particularly in the harem genre:

“In general, this happens way too often on most harem series, where the guy will get treated as a pervert even when he's completely innocent (or simply get mistreated for anything period), but girls doing the same thing or worse results in... nothing at best, the guy being punished anyway at worst. A notable exception is the Tenchi Muyo! multiverse, where the guy is usually a genuine nice guy and the girls are less temperamental towards him (though the same can't be said towards each other at times).”

Sadly, I’ve seen evidence of this kind of thing in real life as well.  In one psychology class I took in college, the teacher showed us a video where these actors took part in a public experiment to see how people react to an arguing couple in a park.  They went back and forth between who was more aggressive in the argument.  People only seemed to intervene when it was the guy being aggressive towards the girl, whereas when it was the girl being all shouty and violent, she was pretty much allowed to be as aggressive as she wanted.  When the people who saw it asked why they didn’t intervene, they said that they just assumed that the must’ve cheated on the girl or done something to deserve it simply because he’s a guy.  It’s sad, really.

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, that's pretty much true sadly, it's kind of the reason I want Ben 10 to be on Adult Swim to be honest, Samurai Jack did it, why not Ben 10. I'm interested how they would make Ben 10.  Even though I have nothing against the reboot, Ben 10 has been experimenting with different styles and that's what kept me attached to the series for so long. 

[Snake_King]

Not sure how they would do it on Adult Swim, to be honest.  Although, there would probably be a strong presence of blood, swearing and 1 or 2 shots of near or full nudity involved at some point or another, given Adult Swim's track record.

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, I had some ideas with Toonami getting the rights to Ben 10, it would be interesting to see, it would be like the Thundercats remake from 2011 with a more anime/animation style and more story driven. Loved that show and it sucks it got cancelled so soon. I would also love to see Studio Trigger or Studio 4°C do the animation for it.

I've been thinking about a Ben 10 anime for a really long time, way before the sequels and reboot came along.

[Snake_King]

Yeah, that would be cool if the did a reboot in the style you mentioned.

Although, about the Thundercats reboot, yeah, it is sad that we never got a proper conclusion to that show and that it got canceled the way it did.  From what I’ve heard, the reason it got canceled was due to multiple reasons, including low ratings and a mixed reaction from people to the things that happened in the show.

Personally, while I admit that the Thundercats had plenty of ideas and concepts that brought a fresh new take on things, I do feel that it got a little too angsty for my taste at times, as well as some questionable story and character choices. Among them being:

• The Cheetara and Tygra romance comes out of nowhere
• Tygra was a big prick, and even the actor who played him, Matthew Mercer, called the character a dick.
• Lion-O suffering from the “Informed Wrongness” trope, where the audience is pretty much TOLD that a character is in the wrong about something, but not really SHOWN why.  Basic but important rule of storytelling; SHOW DON’T TELL!!
• From what I’ve heard, had the show continued, Lion-O would’ve ended up alone.

There’s plenty of other things, but you get what I mean, right?

[Snake_King]

Oh, and to add to that, I know what people say, “IT’S CALLED DRAMA!! YOU CAN’T HAVE A GOOD STORY WITHOUT IT!!”  There’s plenty of ways to make a story good and interesting WITHOUT being overly dramatic.

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, I loved that show and it sucks to see it end so suddenly with no good ending, but that is how it is with toy sales these days (Generator Rex, Sym Bionic Titan, and Young Justice) I feel Ben 10 might suffer the same fate all because of the damn toys and no more Ben 10.

I also had an idea if the Omnitrix was alive (kinda based on Eunice from UAF) and being her own character. It would be really cool to see the Omnitrix have a life of her own. And yes the Omnitrix should be female, it makes more sense to me.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Rexfan12345

[Rexfan12345]

2 minutes ago, Snake_King said:

Oh, and to add to that, I know what people say, “IT’S CALLED DRAMA!! YOU CAN’T HAVE A GOOD STORY WITHOUT IT!!”  There’s plenty of ways to make a story good and interesting WITHOUT being overly dramatic.

True, I tend to hate drama, but only if the situation calls for it like a character dying or something like that.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Rexfan12345

[Snake_King]

3 minutes ago, Rexfan12345 said:

Yeah, I loved that show and it sucks to see it end so suddenly with no good ending, but that is how it is with toy sales these days (Generator Rex, Sym Bionic Titan, and Young Justice) I feel Ben 10 might suffer the same fate all because of the damn toys and no more Ben 10.

I also had an idea if the Omnitrix was alive (kinda based on Eunice from UAF) and being her own character. It would be really cool to see the Omnitrix have a life of her own.

Yeah, it is sad that a lot of networks only see cartoons and movies as a means of advertising toys.

So, you’d basically turn the Omnitrix itself into another harem girl for Ben?  It could work if done right.

3 minutes ago, Rexfan12345 said:

True, I tend to hate drama, but only if the situation calls for it like a character dying or something like that.

Yeah, drama can become a bit much, but it’s not totally bad.  I’ve heard this in the Nicholas Cage movie “Adaptation,” “If you write a script without conflict or crisis, you’ll bore your audience to tears.”  However, I don’t want what I’m watching or reading to become too extreme in terms of tone.  What I want is middle ground; not too light, not too dark, just in the middle with a sense of hope throughout.

[Rexfan12345]

Yeah, it sucks. If Ben 10 was made because it was a just a great idea, it would be freaking epic if the toys weren't around.

I wouldn't make her a harem girl if it was canon though, it would be more like a Rukia and Ichigo kind of relationship of sorts I guess, Ben being with the Omnitrix would make for some interesting episodes. (she would definitely treat him a lot better than most of the girls in his life)

I also had some ideas of Ben Tennyson sleeping with girls from different shows, anime, video games, movies, comic books, and a lot more. Like one-shot stories.

 

[Snake_King]

15 minutes ago, Rexfan12345 said:

I also had some ideas of Ben Tennyson sleeping with girls from different shows, anime, video games, movies, comic books, and a lot more. Like one-shot stories.

We still talking about the anime reboot you mentioned, or more fanfics?