She is the One

[Joe Long]

I tried to explain with statistics. So, thank you for the hard evidence that chance is the better explanation for the majority of birth defects in closely related relationships.

My problem is with a lot people reacting like it's a sure thing that children will be deformed. It wasn't necessarily a criticism of you, as I read many posts over the past couple days and I honestly can't recall who said what without going back.

There very well may be an increased chance, but I believe it's still low enough to not be noticeable by the layman. I've given an example of an entire community, upwards of ten thousand people still living in close proximity, who are very inbred (repeated 2nd & 3rd cousin marriages) and no one notices.

[Guest TasDave]

The real issue for "deformities" when in-breeding isn't actually deformities, it's more to do with family recessive traits that normally wouldn't become prevalent when having children between people who are unrelated. These recessive traits become more common, and in a lot of cases aren't beneficial.

That said, the odds of this happening still aren't very high, but it really REALLY depends on the family genetic history.

[Guest Souperstar123]

Hi guys, here are some of my ideas for characters

Kayla: Nina Doberev

Jack:Josh Hutcherson(maybe?)

Mr. Hannigan: (you probably won't like this but) Dwayne Johnson/ Mark Wahlberg

Mrs. Hannigan: Lura Dern

Mr. And Mrs. Harrison: Brad and Angelina (just pooped in my head haha)

Alan: Alexander Ludwig(Cato from hunger games)

Amanda: Katyrn Newton

Joe: Tyler Posse

That's about all I can think of, some don't really fit while others do...

As far as the story I've been reading since day one and it's really been some of my only reading material for the past couple weeks. Keep up the good work Joe. As far as where I want it to go, me and my girlfriend have been having issues with long distance relationship now that we are finishing up sophomore year of college and we have been together since sophomore year in HS (hopefully summer will help!) but if jack or Kayla were to go on vacation for a bit or something where they can't be with eachother I think that would be an interesting twist. The temptations of college and long distance in general would be I teresting I think.

Also I would like the Hannigans to come back into the picture since we haven't really had conversational parts with them in a while. Mr hannigan reminds me a lot of my girlfriends dad as well.

Last but not least I think it would be interesting if Tara Kayla and Jack developed their relationship as more then what it is. I know a lot of people want jack to be faitful and I can see that part too, but I feel like it would be an eventful addition to the story

Overall great job with the whole thing, I enjoy coming back as often as I can and reading another chapter. Can't wait to see more and participate more in the posting community you seem to have here

[YNP_Refugee]

My problem is with a lot people reacting like it's a sure thing that children will be deformed. It wasn't necessarily a criticism of you, as I read many posts over the past couple days and I honestly can't recall who said what without going back.

There very well may be an increased chance, but I believe it's still low enough to not be noticeable by the layman. I've given an example of an entire community, upwards of ten thousand people still living in close proximity, who are very inbred (repeated 2nd & 3rd cousin marriages) and no one notices.

There is an increased chance. Genetic birth defects do double but since you are discounting the environmental birth defects you are looking at a 1 in 10,000 approx. going to a 1 in 5,000 approx.

I have the same problem as you. I hate it when people think an increased chance makes it a sure thing. If I knew a genetic disease ran in a given family say Sickle Cell or Hemophilia I would advise close relatives to not risk having children. If a mistake happens get an early Amniocent Test. And all the other good advise. But I do hate having bad science drive fear.

Edited April 15, 2015 by YNP_Refugee

[Joe Long]

Hi guys, here are some of my ideas for characters

Kayla: Nina Doberev

Mr. Hannigan: (you probably won't like this but) Dwayne Johnson/ Mark Wahlberg

Alan: Alexander Ludwig(Cato from hunger games)

I drool over Nina Dobrev, so I would gladly second that choice for Kayla, and I had already suggested either Wahlberg for Mr. Harrison. A good looking, 40's, strong but still kind of average American looking guy, while I went with someone like Gerard Butler (who can kick your ass) for Kayla's dad. I know some of the members of the family of a guy Butler portrayed in a movie a couple years back.

I am familiar with Ludwig from "Vikings" but he's huge, well over 6 ft. He'd beat Jack to a pulp. Thinking about it some more, how's about Ludwig to play Brad, the big bruiser who it took several guys to take down?

Edited April 15, 2015 by Joe Long

[Joe Long]

A topic I'd like to discuss - just how old is old enough? In "She is the One" and also "Being More Social", most of the main characters are 9th or 10th graders having lots of sex (while trying to make claims that everyone is 16+)

I was reminded of it just now as I was Googling Kathryn Newton (very attractive blonde - maybe for Jessica?) and Google suggested Kaitlyn Dever, who now at 18 is also quite nice. I looked her up on IMDB and saw that in pics of her from late 2010 (age 13) she still looks like a little girl, but barely 7 or 8 months later (at 14 in early 2011) she was much more adult looking and quite stunning. Same thing with Bailee Madison - at her 13th birthday she's 4 ft something and a little kid, at her 14th she's 5-5 and looking rather adult.

Despite what one person I dislike on the blue site claimed, I have NO interest in little girls. The love interest in my story, very heavily based on a real life person, was nearly 14 and in 8th grade. She could pass for 16. I like attractive women. Some are 14, some are 60. I can drool over Chloe Bennett and Ming-Na Wen in the same episode.

I think we'd all be in general agreement on that. How does that translate into stories, and the various age limits that different sites put on characters? I was driven off the blue site and ended up at SOL. I could have come here, but reckoned that the 16 limit was likely too strict for my story to pass muster.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Joe Long

[Jashley13]

@Joe Long

It's an interesting discussion to have. Frankly, and I know this sounds cliché, it all depends on the person. In the eyes of the law, eighteen is the limit because, as a general consensus within the eyes of commonplace emotional-maturity as it pertains to society, that is a generally agreed-upon limit of maturity after which one may be considered 'adult' enough to make such a decision, at least as it pertains to people older than them. As far as I know, if two sixteen-year-olds or whatever have sex with each other, the law doesn't care. I mean, I'm sure the parents care, but I don't think the police actually get involved unless it's public or one of the participants is over eighteen (unless we consider the rather confusing Romeo-and-Juliet laws, but that's another discussion).

Frankly, I knew a LOT more people having sex in high-school and college-years than I do in the 'real world'. You could make the argument that real life and everything is getting in the way, but I'd say part of what makes younger folks so sex-happy is the newness and 'mystery' of it. I hold that no beer or cigarette ever tastes better than when you're too young to have it. Now, of course, with experience comes appreciation so I think that the abundance of sex in younger generations is not a bad thing, but what I will certainly caution my children on is, well, excess. You dull yourself to sex too quickly, how's it gonna be when you meet The One? Don't wanna kill the charm too quickly. There's a fantastic movie with Joseph Gordon-Lovitt called Don Jon that's about that very subject.

So...like I said, it's all on the individual. As long as they're being smart and understand what they're doing, I say let them do it, as long as they understand moderation and consequences. And, honestly, I don't think there should be a restriction with stories. As long as the story explains why the characters are doing what they're doing, rather than sex for the sake of sex, then I think it's perfectly fine. As long as the story acknowledges that stuff like that isn't necessarily right or even that common, then whatever happens happens and to deny that something like that has or could happen seems rather dishonest and needlessly restrictive.

Also, I must make the point that I made on the blue site: how can loving, consensual sex between slightly younger kids be completely taboo and yet rape, torture, and murder porn be perfectly fine just because the characters are slightly older?

[Joe Long]

I'd say part of what makes younger folks so sex-happy is the newness and 'mystery' of it. I hold that no beer or cigarette ever tastes better than when you're too young to have it. Now, of course, with experience comes appreciation so I think that the abundance of sex in younger generations is not a bad thing, but what I will certainly caution my children on is, well, excess. You dull yourself to sex too quickly, how's it gonna be when you meet The One?

As long as the story explains why the characters are doing what they're doing, rather than sex for the sake of sex, then I think it's perfectly fine. As long as the story acknowledges that stuff like that isn't necessarily right or even that common, then whatever happens happens and to deny that something like that has or could happen seems rather dishonest and needlessly restrictive.

The libertarian site Reason had an article up yesterday arguing that having a drinking age of 21 has encouraged binge drinking in college students aged 18 to 20, using the same logic.

I'm older, I don't remember there being THAT much sex when I was in high school, but then again, as told in my story, I was hanging with the nerds, on the outside looking in.

The thought of possibly spoiling yourself for "The One" leads into a discussion of serial partners or casual vs committed sex. I was discussing last week with Bashful if it's a good thing, long term, to separate the physical from the emotional? Nicole lectured Adam on how she's not a slut despite her sleeping around. I'm back to writing, and my next scene has Hannah going off on Joe with a very different take on the meaning of relationships. Should sex be something that's reserved for only those very few (and maybe even only one) that are truly special in your life?

Hannah will be 14 in six weeks. Her boyfriend has turned 20 and her brother is now 18. That's her social circle right now. How well can she handle being an 8th grader who goes to college beer parties? There have been strains and cracks in her relationship with Joe, but even though he's 20 it's the first time ever he's had one to survive even the first crack.

These are the stories we like to tell, and obviously some people like to read.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Joe Long

[BigMan7307]

No matter how you look at it.... genetic diversity is a complete impossibility... if you believe what we've been taught in Sunday school. All human life comes from one person, and only one person. Some may argue two people, but, keep in mind, according to the Bible, Eve was created using Adam's own rib, therefore, she was a genetic clone, not a different set of genes.

The "over 18" argument is actually a new one. Many years ago, girls as young as 10 were legally married to men much older than them, granted, many were arranged marriages, but, quite a few were mutual. Legislating morality gets you nowhere. I know, and have known a good number of people of that age bracket that have been having sex, either in a commited relationship, or casually, a lot with people outside of their own age group. An age of consent needs to be set on an individual basis, not on some certain number, maturity, not a number should decide that. I have known a lot of 18 year olds that are a lot less mature than some 10 year olds, so a number isn't an accurate basis for decision. That is not to say that adult guys go out and hunt for 10 year old girls, that means that what happens between two consenting people is their business, regardless of a number.

No other person in the world can tell me what is right or wrong for me, they aren't me and haven't lived my life, they can judge me based on their own standards but, that actually means little to nothing, again, they aren't me and have no real basis to decide what's best for me.

I was, according to the laws, old enough to enlist in the military at 18, however, while serving, couldn't have a beer while supporting the troops fighting for freedoms. Many countries have no minimum drinking age, and actually, their alcoholism and alcohol related deaths are much lower than here in the states where the age is regulated. The only way to be mature about use of alcohol is to actually experience it, not by being told that "ok, you're 21, you're now mature enough, you can drink". That goes back to just a numbers game, some legislator, that is at least three generations removed are making decisions affecting people that they know little to nothing about in honesty, most of whom, were probably doing exactly what they're regulating against, (drinking young, smoking, using marijuana). The older generation decided that they had done that, so they should keep the younger generation away from what they had done themselves, ironically, most are from the '60's generation of free love, casual sex, and recreational drug use, and they enjoyed every second of it, I have little doubt that many of them still enjoy all of that in private now because they outlawed the very things they enjoyed and enjoy.

[Joe Long]

The "over 18" argument is actually a new one. Many years ago, girls as young as 10 were legally married to men much older than them, granted, many were arranged marriages, but, quite a few were mutual.

I always enjoyed this clipping, apparently no one was freaked out about it in 1924, that these two fine young people decided to marry, even without her parent's permission

COUNTY COUPLE IN ELOPEMENT

William S******* and Miss Mildred G***** Wed in Cumberland, Md.

Two young residents of U******** eloped on Tuesday, March 25th [1924], to Cumberland, Md. The bride was Miss Mildred Lucilla G*****, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. H. G*****. She just celebrated her 14th birthday of February 27th and was a pupil of the 8th grade school at U********. Lucilla was neither tardy of absent from school this term, until her wedding day. She is an attractive and estimable young woman.

The bridegroom is Mr. William Blair S******* a former sailor, having served in the U. S. Navy for four years. He is well and favorably known in the community.

No one suspected an elopement and it was a surprise to all her friends, even her parents not knowing of it until twelve hours later. She had asked permission to spend the night with a friend but went to Cumberland instead.

[that-one-guy]

My thoughts on this hole thing is once they've hit puberty (them naturally being ready for sex) and as long as both parties are consenting (hell I'd even go far enough to say they at least use some form of protection) then it shouldn't matter what age they are. We are taught in schools that it is OK to make mistakes as long as we learn from them. Maybe if more 14-17 year olds were pregnant (that came out a bit worse than what I was intending) then maybe they would learn to use protection or wait until they are ready to live with the consequences (children)

[BigMan7307]

My thoughts on this hole thing is once they've hit puberty (them naturally being ready for sex) and as long as both parties are consenting (hell I'd even go far enough to say they at least use some form of protection) then it shouldn't matter what age they are. We are taught in schools that it is OK to make mistakes as long as we learn from them. Maybe if more 14-17 year olds were pregnant (that came out a bit worse than what I was intending) then maybe they would learn to use protection or wait until they are ready to live with the consequences (children)

The hardest part about society as a whole anymore is they try to protect or prevent them from being able to make those very mistakes. By telling kids they can't do something, kids, being kids..... are going to do them, probably moreso than if the permission was already given..... kids are rebellious. Instead of regulating or telling them they can't, give them the freedom to decide for themselves, yeah, most will experiment, and decide if they like it or not, after a spike things will normalize, probably at a lower rate than if they're told not to.

Teen pregnancy happens anyways, regardless of rules telling them they aren't supposed to. Kids for thousands of years have played "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" it's not something new, and it sure isn't going to go away any time soon. Trying to regulate natural curiosity will just lead to resentment and usually bigger problems.

Humanity is littered with people that have gone against convention, if Columbus had listened to what everyone else told him.... well, you try to figure out where everyone would be living. Curiosity has risk, it also has benefits, too many focus on the risk and not the benefits. If abortion is outlawed again, it's still going to happen, and probably in a lot less safe ways than it is happening now, force something underground and the risk becomes higher.

[Joe Long]

As a libertarian leaning conservative, part of my core beliefs are that responsibility and consequences are powerful tools in developing a healthy society, with well adjusted individuals.

We don't want to see anything destroy our kids, but at times it's necessary to have them suffer through some things, as they say, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." It's the healthy fear of consequences that makes most people consider their choices wisely. We cause problems when we attempt to shield our children, or people in general, from the results of their actions.

When my son was 15 he and some of his friends were arrested for joy riding. My father and I paid $5000 to get him a lawyer so that we could get the best out of the circumstance. On the first trip to the lawyer's office, I told him "I am doing this for you this once - next time you are on your own." He did his community service, got a job and paid his restitution and turned out pretty well.

In an example of government over protectiveness, a couple in Maryland had their 10 and 5 year old picked up by police blocks from their house, and instead of being taken home were turned over to Child Protective Services, and couldn't get the kids back until the parents signed that they would no longer endanger their children (despite there being no law against what they did.)

Today we have college students who want professors sanctioned for disagreeing with them, everything is so 'triggering.' Grow up, soon you'll be in the real world and won't have a clue how to survive.

[BigMan7307]

When I screwed up as a kid.... I got my ass whooped, I learned real quick the consequences of messing up. Not abused, disciplined, huge difference. In this day and age, sadly, if you look at your kid cross-eyed they can turn you in for abuse. What's worse, most of the ones writing these inane laws probably got spanked as kids, and learned from it. Not saying there aren't parents that don't go overboard, but, 99.9% of kids would be a lot better off if parents were allowed to actually be the guiding force in their life instead of t.v., video games, and sure as hell, the government.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Spend time with your kids, learn about them, most of them feel like they're alone and no one understands them. News flash kids, chances are, what you're going through, your parents did, maybe not exactly, but similar enough to empathize as well as help. Don't discount that times are different, yes, technology has changed some things, but, a bully is a bully whether online or in person.

[that-one-guy]

When I screwed up as a kid.... I got my ass whooped, I learned real quick the consequences of messing up. Not abused, disciplined, huge difference. In this day and age, sadly, if you look at your kid cross-eyed they can turn you in for abuse. What's worse, most of the ones writing these inane laws probably got spanked as kids, and learned from it. Not saying there aren't parents that don't go overboard, but, 99.9% of kids would be a lot better off if parents were allowed to actually be the guiding force in their life instead of t.v., video games, and sure as hell, the government.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Spend time with your kids, learn about them, most of them feel like they're alone and no one understands them. News flash kids, chances are, what you're going through, your parents did, maybe not exactly, but similar enough to empathize as well as help. Don't discount that times are different, yes, technology has changed some things, but, a bully is a bully whether online or in person.

Cyber bullies are cowards and real bullies are idiots who probably were bullied as well. When I was getting picked on I turned around and nearly broke the guys jaw, didn't get bothered again after that. Violence may not always be the answer, but it can be sometimes

[YNP_Refugee]

Looks like I have missed a lot not tuning in much today.

As for the age discussion. I would agree that puberty it the key. No one should go for someone who is not able to have children. That is the purpose of sex.

Now you know one of my main reasons against anal. To me it seems as if one or more of the participants is telling the other "you are not worth having a child with."

As to the historical side of this. 18 is very recent. In the 1800s average age for a marriage was 14 or 15. Girls began worrying about being 'old maids' at 16. In the 1700s with the exception of some aristocrats the age was 13 or 14 and this seems to hold true back as far as you can go. The problem is record keeping at this time makes these ages very inaccurate. The records were not centrally kept so what I am giving here in the 1700s and further back is sketchy. Aristocrats traded their daughters like cattle and often held onto them till they were closer to modern ages for marriage.

The information for the 1800s can be verified by records or you can just read Little Women. Know that the books in the series are loosely based on events in Louisa May's life. And the things she discusses were the issues at the time, such as when were you an old maid if you were a girl. The other thing to consider is what her station in life was. They were more wealthy than most people in their time. The records show that the more wealthy a family is the later they marry, historically.

Edited April 15, 2015 by YNP_Refugee

[Joe Long]

As to the historical side of this. 18 is very recent. In the 1800s average age for a marriage was 14 or 15. Girls began worrying about being 'old maids' at 16. In the 1700s with the exception of some aristocrats the age was 13 or 14 and this seems to hold true back as far as you can go. The problem is record keeping at this time makes these ages very inaccurate. The records were not centrally kept so what I am giving here in the 1700s and further back is sketchy. Aristocrats traded their daughters like cattle and often held onto them till they were closer to modern ages for marriage.

Let me disagree. I have done a LOT of genealogy. Starting in 1850, the names and ages of every person is recorded in the US census. Ages aren't perfect, but are usually within a year or two, even when estimated.

Through the 1800's most women got married from 18-21, men 20-25. Pennsylvania didn't start marriage licenses until 1885, but well into the 1900's no one under 21 could get married without their parent's permission. However, for many it was easy to catch a train to Maryland, where the was no consent law, and return later in the day married and there wasn't a damn thing the parents could do.

As I said, few women were married before 18, but it was not unusual (10-20% ??) for them to have one child before that first marriage. It took two or more pre-marital children to be a slut. I had a great-great-grandfather in the 1870's who knocked two girls up at the same time, and one already had a kid, He married that one, and left the other girl (carrying my great-grandfather) behind. A couple years later she got married and left him with her parents. When he was 18 (1896) he knocked up an underage girl (14 or under?) as he was charged with statutory rape. He didn't meet his birth dad until he was 50, showing up at the house and knocking on the front door. The kid who answered told me the story at a reunion.

At least in Pa, it was from the 1920's to the 1950's when the most under 18 marriages occurred.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Joe Long

[BigMan7307]

Let me disagree. I have done a LOT of genealogy. Starting in 1850, the names and ages of every person is recorded in the US census. Ages aren't perfect, but are usually within a year or two, even when estimated.

Through the 1800's most women got married from 18-21, men 20-25. Pennsylvania didn't start marriage licenses until 1885, but well into the 1900's no one under 21 could get married without their parent's permission. However, for many it was easy to catch a train to Maryland, where the was no consent law, and return later in the day married and there wasn't a damn thing the parents could do.

As I said, few women were married before 18, but it was not unusual (10-20% ??) for them to have one child before that first marriage. It took two or more pre-marital children to be a slut. I had a great-great-grandfather in the 1870's who knocked two girls up at the same time, and one already had a kid, He married that one, and left the other girl (carrying my great-grandfather) behind. A couple years later she got married and left him with her parents. When he was 18 (1896) he knocked up an underage girl (14 or under?) as he was charged with statutory rape. He didn't meet his birth dad until he was 50, showing up at the house and knocking on the front door. The kid who answered told me the story at a reunion.

At least in Pa, it was from the 1920's to the 1950's when the most under 18 marriages occurred.

That actually proves the point.... you can't legislate it. Sex as a teen is going to happen. Whether society likes it or not, they will. I know parents don't like thinking about their kids having sex any more than their kids want to think about their parents having sex. Just because you try to deny something is happening doesn't mean that it isn't. You're here because at least one of your parents had sex to conceive you, and obviously, they made the decision to keep you, showing a huge mark of maturity on their part.

[Joe Long]

You're here because at least one of your parents had sex to conceive you, and obviously, they made the decision to keep you, showing a huge mark of maturity on their part.

I think it took both parents, and yes, my mother was a 19yo college student. They were married for 20 years before splitting up.

[Joe Long]

@jashley13

I went to the other site to see if you checked for my PM, after seeing me show up here.

I was an idiot and gave the wrong email address, it's jplong

and since finding this forum, I know a good place to find you!

[BigMan7307]

I think it took both parents, and yes, my mother was a 19yo college student. They were married for 20 years before splitting up.

With the rise of step parents, I went with the at least one of them, because they don't always stay together.

[Joe Long]

Moving on to another age question - it seems like a couple of you are geezers like me - do kids start school later now than they used to? I was 2 months short of 18 when I graduated HS, and I was exactly in the middle of the age range. Only about 35% of the graduates were already 18. I wasn't old enough to drive until 3 weeks before my junior year started.

So high school was 15, 16 & 17, and college 18, 19, 20 & 21. (7th to 9th grade was Jr High)

[Guest Scott]

So are things just going to be as if Tara never tried to have a threeway with Jack and Kayla or will that potentially be coming into play in a future chapter?

[Joe Long]

So are things just going to be as if Tara never tried to have a threeway with Jack and Kayla or will that potentially be coming into play in a future chapter?

Well, Tara's been out of state for awhile, but she's back! Who knows, maybe Kayla and Tara already had 2 ways of that 3 way

[YNP_Refugee]

My birthday is in Nov. I turned 18 my senior year. I was among the oldest in my class. The youngest in the class ahead of me was a girl born in the same hospital on the same day as me. I think for a while my mom actually wanted me to get to gather with her when she found out we had become friends.

EDIT:

And yes I am a geezer too. I will be 50 this year.

Edited April 16, 2015 by YNP_Refugee