Leaderboard

Jefferey dragon prints: 7777!

If it was established that there was no remaining coercion or influence or fear of punishment if they didn’t come back and fuck or whatever then there;s an argument they can give informed consent to say yes and it wouldn’t be rape. Otherwise I’d say it still applies. Of course, I always tag on the side of caution with rape content perhaps other folks’d say different.

Why is this conversation starting to make me feel hungry?

I’ve written similar themes funnily enough. The thing about consent is that it has to be informed uncoerced consent or it’s not consent. In this situation the celebs are not in a position to give informed uncoerced consent because ultimately if they refuse they’re punished for their refusal. The stockholm syndrome/brainwashing/whathaveyou seems to me to be a comparable altered mental state to someone who is given/takes intoxicants and so might say “Yeah, I’ll fuck!” but is actually too drunk or stoned to make the informed decision. In both situations if advantage is taken by a non-drunk/stoned/brainwashed party and it’s not real consent although frat boy lawyers like to try and argue different. With the story as described I’d be tagging it all rape.

Oh yay, my favorite: a giant, gray, muddy morality swamp! Let’s go swimming! Mal, you and I are writing similar stories in different genres. I would say, from what you’ve told us, that OVERALL what’s happening is rape. If the characters are in a situation where they can’t leave or can’t stop what’s happening to them should they change their mind, then their consent is merely a happy coincidence, especially since it’s a result of psychological torture/brainwashing/Stockholm Syndrome. Now, the actual, individual scenes where they consent, taken individually from the story, I wouldn’t call rape. But in the context of the whole fic, I guess you could call it part of the pattern of sexual abuse. This is a pretty tricky one though. I almost feel like, depending on the actual mental state of the celebs, that consent can’t be given.

So ever since my post in the “On tags I’ve used by A Writer” section, I’ve been contemplating the idea of consent. Now, I stand by what I said in the thread, that consent, in so far as a character/person either wants the sex and consents to it, or its rape. But it got me thinking on the specific circumstances in my story Billion Dollar Harem, and how they relate to consent. In BDH, the main character, Alex, builds an expansive, luxury “bomb shelter,” under a mansion he constructed deep in the Yukon Mountains. As its being built, he recruits a cadre of African mercenaries. After his complex is complete, he uses these men, his expansive wealth, and subtle influence to kidnap five different celebrities on the same night. He then imprisons these women in the underground shelter and once there, he begins their sexual training. Now, I’m not debating that basically all the initial sexual encounters would and should be categorized as rape. Clearly, these celebs are there against their will and whether its through force, coercion, or self-preservation any sex he gives them is rape. What I’m curious to hear from you guys about, and I guess the question I’m asking is: As time goes by, the celebs slowly begin to succumb to Stockholm Syndrome. But more than that, they learn about Alex, and many of them find themselves sympathizing, not so much with his actions or his methods, but in a more general sense his motivation, however misguided, for bringing them there. Not to mention, these same celebs find him attractive and capable of sensitivity, even caring, and there’s the added benefit that he’s an extremely skilled lover. As time goes on they begin to give themselves to him willingly, many even initiating sexual encounters on their own. Now, my question is: should these encounters be considered rape? On the one hand, the celebs are still being held in Alex’s sex dungeon. They are expected to participate in the harem and its sexual activities or face punishment. Which means in many ways the original circumstances are still in place, they are just more accepting of it and acclimated to it. On the other, more than a few of the celebs have reached a point, where they wouldn’t want to leave Alex, even if given ample opportunity. So, it maybe have been abduction, rape and Stockholm Syndrome which got them to the state of mind they are currently in, but they have still made a conscious choice to belong. Now, I have not been taging scenes in which these celebs “willingly” give themselves to Alex as rape, (mostly because they ARE consenting), but it still makes me wonder that in this supremely messed up situation, are these women even capable of giving consent? Their feelings toward him are a byproduct of the extremely fucked up situation which landed them there, but they (at least now) want to belong…. Its a complicated situation. As to tagging, I don’t think I’ll change my policy that when they consent, or offer themselves to Alex that I won’t use a rape tag. But I am curious what you guys think on a philosophical level. Is it still rape when he has sex with them, even if they are willing, just because of the fact that he is still technically keeping them as prisoners in a sex dungeon? I’m very curious to hear what you guys think! Looking forward to hearing from you guys, -Mal

A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

Same, my dude, same. In fact, everyone on this site is probably on a watchlist at this point.

Feds already have my details… Nope, never had brain curry, but I did have chicken curry for dinner.

@Desiderius Price Sweet or spicy but never boring <3 Oh, and don’t get salty when I rib you

@KassX What’s your taste in friends like?

Especially when you consider history and the rights of women. What’s considered rape today (informed consent) is a stricter definition of rape than was common in earlier eras. (ie, presumed consent in a marriage.)

As a whole, I’m pretty conservative on tagging too, so much so that I started to really worry at one point that I was scaring away an awful lot of readers over a “maybe”. So I divide the tags into two groups 1) strong/significant, and 2) weak/maybes/infrequent. First group goes into the summary; and both go into the top of the story where I can qualify the tag, as necessary. For instance, if it’s just a conversation about rape, it’d be like “rape (discussion)”.

Next thing it’d be staff questions for “Do I need to tag my vampire stories for vore? What about if they drain the blood and make blood sauage?”

It will probably come as no surprise that I’m with JD on this. I’ve written some stuff that’s coerced sex, and I tag it as rape, because there really isn’t informed consent. Whether or not the character arrives at a state where they go along with what’s being done really doesn’t remove the onus of coercion in my opinion. If the character can’t walk away, and can’t refuse without fear of reprisal, it’s rape. I tend to be very conservative in tagging content as rape, because I’m never sure what will act as a trigger for a reader. I know rape survivors in real life, and I’m well aware that even the most minor thing, something those of us who haven’t been raped might not even register, can prove to be a painful reminder. I don’t ever want someone to come back to me, and tell me I caused them pain and anguish because I didn’t tag content which might be triggering. I will tag non-graphic, offstage mentions of rape with the rape tag, simply as a precaution. It’s a good discussion to have, really. Rape is one of those things which brings out strong feelings on both sides, and I’ll be the first to admit my views are very strongly influenced by being female, although men are victims of rape as well. But it’s something I think we can find common ground with, despite our gender.

I mean, it is pretty interesting. Alex has tolerated refusals for sex over short periods from a couple of the celebs. He is sensitive to what they’re going through emotionally. But on the other hand, blatant refusals over time are met with harsh punishment. So the celebs do have some degree of choice, but ultimately they submit, or they’re punished… so I can still kind of see both sides of what you’re saying, KassX.

You’d need a Nec tag too for that...

Tags, to some degree, can also be spoilers for the story, especially if they get super refined. (ie, MCD + Drowning) I’ve been experimenting with putting the significant/major/important tags into the summary, and all the tags into the top of the story. So far, I like it, because it’s less intimidating to a reader while also properly warning them and I can also qualify my tags, if appropriate.

I just got an image of someone going around trying to catch rogue, impish tags.

You’re more than free to add in new tags…. [vore] from above is a candidate, though that topic was starting to get a bit on the well done side, charred broiled was more like it.

If y’all inspire the powers that be to add more story codes while I’m working on my challenge, I’m going to cry. Then Laugh, like one of those really loud nervous breakdown laughs. Then compose a long, exasperated, but very Canadian letter that starts with “sorry” and ends with “eh”. Fear my scorn!

Aww, but the brain is the best part… Ever had it curried? (Aaaand we’re on a watchlist somewhere )

Trust me, in many cultures today, presumed consent via marriage is a given.

I’m in a sushi mood today <3 Isn’t Twilight just socially-acceptable vore? Vampires are the ultimate cheat code

You know, Vore is a useful tag…

That one’s even better! – you could use that for a variation on the old joke: Two carny vores are eating a clown, one says to the other “Does this taste funny to you?”

What about their bitter rivals the carny vores who deal exclusively with circus-themed vore?

I have a followup question: hypothetically, if he freed them at some point and they came back of their own accord to have liaisons with him, would you still consider that rape? I guess what I’m asking is, are ALL their future interactions tainted now no matter what Alex does?

Some of it’s even weirder, like there’s a fetish for being eaten by a Disney Volkswagen Beetle, which is “Herbie Vore”. *Flees*

Oh wow, thanks for telling me JayDee. Now if you’ll all excuse me, I’ve got a brain to bleach

So, very basically, Soft Vore is where someone swallows someone else whole and they almost always survive the experience being kept inside and walked around and sometimes being released later for good behavior in the stomach or similar. Not uncommon to be seen combined in stories with giants (macrophilia) or normal sized people eating tiny people (microphilia) and the like as well as a furry fanbase which has even more specialised terms because furries furry. Hard Vore tends to be bloody and messy with biting/chewing and also some would include any otherwise soft vore that ends with digestion and death as hard vore also. It’s all cheerfully fucked up and folks like to argue the specific semantics of it for hours. Unbirthing is exactly what it sounds like, sometimes seen in the “anal vore” varient.

Scat and anything involving minors. Everything else is fair game.

True! Currently, I’m just using them to explore fears but I really like the no-consequences fun aspect. I’ll have to do more of these. True, lol. I just think the level of specificity in ABDL/TBDL is interesting but you know what, I think I would appreciate being warned about it in advance. Also, wtf is soft vore? There is not a single level of vore that I would describe as ‘soft’

Solo - The... Fewer the merrier? Solo goes with Exhib, Voy and sometimes your character is just horny and no one else is around! I've also been experimenting with this as a way for a character's split personalities to have sex with each other, lol. It's fun. Spank - I usually go straight to the whipping, but spanking is pretty cute. TBDL - I'd just like to know why we have this tag and not a vore tag Tent - Well, I did mention all the tentacle-y things I wanted to try writing scenes with. Like hentai level tentacle monster thing? Sure! I missed a great opportunity with one the first time around. Will not be making that mistake in the rewrite! TF - Planning on adding a werewolf character so I probably have to start using this. Tort - Plain old torture happens too, sometimes it's more violent than sexual other times vice versa. Psychological torture? You betcha! Toys - I prefer to just have my characters bareback it but toys are great as a complement to that, and great for spicing things up. Trans - Crossdressing happens quite a bit, yes. UST - Ummmm, that really depends on the timeline you use to define 'unresolved'. I like to think all the sexual tension eventually gets resolved, whether that's immediately or a whole book later. I managed to keep one of my characters virgin for two books and I'm pretty impressed with my restraint if I do say so myself! Violence - Only my favorite thing ever! The violence can vary from kind of cartoony to visceral blood and gore and stuff but all of my stories have it. Voy - I did mention one of my MCs and his harem, and I'm trying to do a lot more than this with a character who has an affinity for spy bots and drones. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING by which I mean he's literally your brother and he's spying on you WAFF - I see this is anime specific, I don't really get it. I mean, a reader recently mentioned she enjoyed a cuddling scene that I wrote but I'm not gonna tag it over that lol WD - Well gee, they get so much action while they're awake that I didn't even think of harassing them in their sleep too, lol. Okay, that's a lie. When I write a dream sequence, it's usually a horrific one, not a sexual one, tho. WIP - I don't want to talk about it T_T WS - Honestly, even if I wanted to experiment with this, I would keep it out to avoid the tag. I'm not really into it and I know it's a deterrent. Xeno - I mentioned, but I'd love to do this if I got the chance! I don't have any aliens in my gay dystopian vampire harem fic, that would just be WEIRD. Aaaand I’m done!