I'm a Homophobe 'cause WHAT?

[StoryJunkie]

To me, homophobia is something only men suffer from. I've never heard of a woman suffering from it But perhaps I am wrong.

I guess what I was thinking at that moment was this: some dark and dreary night, and within a cheerily-lit building, a party of the 1930's sort going on,....with a three piece band, and foot-stomping polkas in which, if a woman was short a male partner, she just up and grabbed the next nearest women, and no one in the place was any freaked.

I would imagine that if two men got up to dance, there'd of been a bloody nose or two, or at least a great deal of teasing. Two women dancing together...even as a child in the sixties, this was not an unusual thing in our community. No one knew what "Lesbian" meant (that's for the higher ups: those with classical education, not us peasants) At any rate, as I was growing up, men didn't dance together, but it was totally acceptable for women to dance together.

Mind you, this was at a time when it was still okay for a 30 year old man to marry a 14 year old girl.

[Lost_Soul]

Breaking down the word "homophobia," we find that it's made up of two words, "homo" is "same" and "phobia" means intense, irrational fear. That would lead one to believe that "homophobia" means, literally, "An irrational fear of the same" which is an interesting thing to fear indeed. However, if we take "homo" to mean "homosexual," then "homophobia" would mean "irrational fear of homosexuals." Over time, that definition has broadened to mean anyone who has any level of distaste for homosexuals and their lifestyles. This gets translated in such a way where anyone who wishes not to see a homosexual scene played out in front of them is suffering from homophobia and/or is not comfortable with their sexuality.

Uhm... actually, "homo" means 'man' in latin. Also means 'human being' or 'mortal', but in pl., 'men' in latin. You are right about the meaning of "phobia", and together (homophobia) means 'fear of men'. And "homosexual" means 'of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex'. I have no idea where you got your information on the meaning of homo but you are wrong. "Homo" does not originally mean "homosexual" as I have stated above, but people are stupid these days and like to use slang that confuses me sometimes and take educated words and use them to mean something negative for slang. Such as "gay" for example: "Gay" means 'happy', 'merry', or 'lively mood' originally, way back when people were using educated words. It frustrates me sometimes on how far people in society has fallen to talk, I should phrase it, "ignorantly".

[Remetan]

I'm a ghey, queer, gender-bending/breaking lesbo dyke with a boyfriend. And I am not heterophobic because I have several straight friends.

I don't want to offend anyone, but I kinda hate that cop-out. I'm not racist because I have black/asian/latino/native american/enter-your-favorite-ethnicity-here friends. I'm not a feminazi because I have male friends. I'm not a classist because I have rich friends (used here because I'm po, yo!).

I think one of the main problems is that we do, as a species, have a bit of an inherent fear of the other. Originally a means for survival, US vs. THEM. My tribe, your tribe. My clan, your clan. We label as a consequence of evolution.

Fear, as I understand it, stems from the unknown, psychologically. Or the already known to be harmful. Therefore, in an effort to eradicate fear, we stay away from the known evil and educate about the unknown possibly but probably not evil.

So, I think anyone who refuses to look at/learn about/educate themselves to the experience of something that is other is making a decision to continue the idea of "other" thus perpetuating the unknown, thus perpetuating the fear.

So, refusing to watch BBM because it portrays gay love falls into the realm of homophobic, whether or not it is because you "just aren't interested". I think that refusing to watch BBM because Heath Ledger is now dead and it will be just one more movie I can't experience him in for the first time is valid. (I'm saving it, see...)

Overcoming phobias only works through exposure, education, cognitive behavior modification.

And I don't know that I have the wherewithal to get into a discussion about linguistics. Homophobia is a fairly accepted term used in reference for those who don't outwardly hate, but still have issues with, the idea of the ghey. Anything more than that turns into a lot more ugly terminology, like bigotry, etc. But, it may eventually change, as language and culture have a tendency to be fluid, evolving cohesively through time.

I hope that wasn't too much ramble, I'm just getting back into the swing of forum debate after a four year hiatus.

[Keith Inc.]

So, refusing to watch BBM because it portrays gay love falls into the realm of homophobic, whether or not it is because you "just aren't interested".

Can't agree. It's just entertainment. If you don't think that a movie will be entertaining, there's no reason to watch it.

I am homophobic in that the thought of personally participating in whoopie smoochies with a guy provokes the same reaction in me as the thought of being in a high place without safety rails or picking up a tarantula. I'll acknowledge 'phobia' quickly enough in all cases.

But I don't think my personal reactions are the basis for legislation. I support gay marriage. I support gays serving in the military. I didn't turn any shipmates in for being gay. My favorite part of Kids in the Hall is the gay bar owner's soliloquy

Overcoming phobias only works through exposure, education, cognitive behavior modification.

See, now, i can't see that my phobia needs overcoming. I don't want to have gay sex. I don't want to want to have gay sex.

But I don't discriminate because of the phobia. THAT behavior i could see needing to 'overcome,' if i indulged it enough to project it upon others.

I do agree with your 'the other' assessment. When Gays were in the closet, the only thing most people knew about them was whatever their authority figures told them. As they come out into the light, their very presence is educating others. The more gays you know, the less sense the vilification makes. People reject the claims, and slowly reject those making the claims. I think this applies to many versions of 'the other.'

So i think it's possible to know 'enough' about a topic to make non-phobic decisions about what to pop into the player on a slow TV night.

[Velvet D Coolette]

Okay - Women do suffer from it - all you have to do is speak to my mother for five minutes and you'll realize it.

Aye, we've got two over on another forum I frequent. One of the women in question dated a man who ended up coming out as gay and she has a bit of a chip on her shoulder as a result. The other one is just a proper, brainwashed fundie who says her opinion on homosexuals is 'Biblical'. I'm not sure I want to know what that means, especially if I want to stay on that forum which, overall, I do. After a long - and rather heated - conversation about the ethics of homosexuality, she and the other woman decided that there was no reason for them to be prejudiced against homosexuals so they defended their right to continue with their prejudice based on 'variation of opinion', and congratulated themselves on that.

Pricks.

Do you know how hard it is to raise accepting and non-prejudiced children when their Grammy spouts off about homosexuals whenever she gets the chance?

She even told me once that if I or one of my children turned out to be gay she'd disown us. Now when the same subject came up about my younger brother and sister (and her kids) she did a complete 180... but that's my Mum. I've learned to ignore it. Calling her on it only causes fights and her swearing up and down that she's not prejudiced in any way (you should hear her when she spouts off about any race other than white - it's scary).

I sometimes wonder how I grew up to be as accommodating as I am... my sister grew up to be accepting as well - the only one she poisoned is my brother... but I have theories about that one.

My mum used to be quite a lot like that - I empathise. While it wasn't so much about minorities and more about her caprices as an emotionally manipulative bitch, I certainly recognise the 'I'm not being unreasonabl!' stompfests. And I'm still glad I get to keep my distance from her after all these years. I'm selective in the contact I have and thank my lucky stars I don't have kids.

I think people like you and I grow up to be more accommodating because we see the very worst side of prejudiced people. To see someone who has a worldview and is also angry, I think that makes a child grow up into an adult who does not share the same view. I think Christians sometimes get this with atheists - someone who is atheist and is also angry (perhaps because they keep getting preached at even though they don't want it) makes it look like all atheists are angry. We're not, of course, but people will forge these correlations sometimes.

[Shunskitten]

homophobia? dude, we all have blood, right? then why should others be scared of such people!?

you might as well be scared of me! I'm half lesbian half straight, im bi! man that really pisses me off when people dont like someone just because of their sexuality. brokeback mountain happens to be a favorite movie of mine.

[Hairyhaggis]

I am not homophobic. Each to their own i say. If it doesn't affect me personally then who am I to say what is and isn't acceptable? should people be allowed to fall in love? yes should it matter what sex they are? hell no. We are predisposed to be attracted to certain people and for some that attraction is for someone of the same sex for others it is the opposite some even go so far as to find inanimate objects sexually pleasing so each to their own. It is these differences that make the world a much more interesting place to be.

To me homophobia is more than a fear of the same sex and most people who have that as a fear should really have another label since the one most people use is referred to when they are prejudiced, hateful and downright abusive to the point where people are vilified and even killed. A person with the fear who doesn't portray those qualities should not be held under the same label even if the meaning is the same. It's not fair on them to be tarnished with the same brush.

[Shadowknight12]

I have something to confess.

I'm a homophobephobe.

I'm sorry. I try really hard to fight it every day, but it just gets so hard when it's shoved in my face like that. I pray to Thor every day to save those poor souls from eternal damnation, but I know it's not my place to judge in His stead.

[KerantliDreamer]

I'm one of those that class people as people. We're all human, we all make mistakes, we all love.

I'm not homophobic, but there are people out there that are, and will make life difficult for those that are homosexual. I'm bisexual, but I have have a Master, and most of my other partners have been male - would that make me straight?

I have gay friends - my best friend is gay - and lesbian friends. I celebrate Pride, but do I want to know what goes on behind closed doors with my gay friends? No thanks, what goes on behind closed doors is their business. Same with the lesbian friends, and same with the straight friends I have.

Homophobia to me is something that shouldn't still be around, but is. It is just there for me, I don't get angry at it, but I do shoot the person who has said something homophobic a rather fierce look.They either get the message that I won't stand for it and leave, or I leave if they ignore me.

My sort-of-MIL is very homophobic, and racist. I try not to let my children around her (and the rest of that side of the family for that matter.) - All be cause I don't want my kids to have an OPINION forced onto them.

I swear my youngest is gay, granted he's 3 years old and I shouldn't say that, but the way he can act some times is likened to how my best friend can act when he's in a giddy mood.

I act like I'm all my female friends lesbian lover when out with them, I was once dropped off at the train station after spending the night at one of my friends, got asked if I was waiting for "him", and turned around with a huge "cat got the cream" grin and said "No, SHE just dropped me off." The look on the males face was a picture.

The fact someone was called homophobic over not watching Brokeback Mountain is a silly reason. Saying that, I feel the same way when someone comes out with a Transphobic comment. Once again, they're human, and a person in their own right, so what if they identify as the opposite gender than what they were born as? They can love, they can feel, and they deserve to be treated equally. EVERYONE deserves to be treated equally.

In the words of lady gaga (don't care for her either way) "Baby, you were born this way."

[Slutcow]

A few months ago I had a long, overdrawn debate on the subject of homophobia and its literal and social implications, the argument closing with 'homosexuality is simple prejudice, not fear'. Indeed, the word homophobia was coined around the time homosexuality was deemed a mental disorder, rendering the argument that 'homophobia is a fear of homosexuals' worthless. A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, and in my humble opinion, homophobes are more stupid than scared.

[Slutcow]

A few months ago I had a long, overdrawn debate on the subject of homophobia and its literal and social implications, the argument closing with 'homosexuality is simple prejudice, not fear'. Indeed, the word homophobia was coined around the time homosexuality was deemed a mental disorder, rendering the argument that 'homophobia is a fear of homosexuals' worthless. A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, and in my humble opinion, homophobes are more stupid than scared.

>in my humble opinion

that was meant to be a joke, but it just came out awkward askdf;askdf;

Anyway, here ya go http://theboxfairy.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3rdtoi

[Kakashifan727]

Bumping, don't really care. I get in trouble, that;s fine.

Anyways, going slightly off topic here, has anyone ever been labeled a homophobe for not liking yaoi? I think I had been once on DA or one of those sites. I personally don't like it, or yuri for that matter, but using that kind of logic in an argument is just laughable. Real reason I don't like that stuff is because I feel it takes advantage of homosexuals for the heterosexuals gain, or some crap like that, I having trouble articulating here. Double standards maybe? It really doesn't bother me, only when it's pushed into my face, and it has to be certain kinds. I do see the appeal of course, but I just feel it is wrong to exploit people (anime chars aren't really people but I haven't seen many cases of RP yaoi.) so others can get themselves off to it, whether said people have been shown to be straight, bi, gay, asexual whatever.

And that's it really. Feels good to put this down somewhere. Hell, who knows? I may even change my mind about it one day, but I just don't like idea of poo. Maybe I have a problem with anal/scat? I'm not really sure. It just seems, unhygienic and not sexy to me if there's poo in it, where there could be with gay dudes, but not always. My first point still stands though.

[BronxWench]

Topics revive all the time, randomly or not. No worries about bumping.

But you raise a valid issue, and that's whether or not it's appropriate to affix a label because someone doesn't like something.

Now me, I don't seek out femmeslash stories. It's not my thing. I write and read slash and het, but femmeslash just doesn't appeal to me. Now given that my daughter identifies as bisexual (she went from bi to lesbian and back to bi), it's certainly not because I'm phobic in any way about lesbians. My best friend in high school was lesbian. It was a non-issue for me in terms of how I felt about her as a person.

So, am I a homophobe or not? I'd say not, but if someone wanted to fix that label on me, and use my lack of interest in reading or writing femmeslash as a reason, well... it demonstrates their ignorance.

And because I like to clarify, I don't write anime or manga based fiction, so I avoid the anime/manga-specific terminology. Just a quirk of mine.

[foeofthelance]

(Younger me was an asshole. I approve!)

[Cuzosu]

I have a cousin who is practically the definition of "homophobe." He always seems to think that any gay male near him is going to pounce and try to screw him. As this includes his gay brother, yes, I would call it an irrational fear. Not to mention, the cousin in question is completely heterosexual. His brother is flamboyantly gay and teases said straight cousin for liking women, but that's more of a sibling thing than anything else.

My sister and I are bisexual, though she leans more toward girls and I lean more toward guys, but personality matters more to us than anything else, and that's because of how we were raised. I'm not sure if my sexist father would approve, but then he's a bit of an asshole anyway.

I read yaoi because I've seen/known too many females (including one of my aunts) who are so completely off-putting that I was an utter bitch the rest of the day, sometimes the rest of the week, because I had to deal with these people. Personally, I haven't known as many men who act like that, so I lean toward the gender that isn't as likely to make me rabid with fury. (Though I have a gay uncle--who has AIDS and was the spoiled youngest child--who probably would have put me off males, too, except he lived far enough away that I think I've seen him maybe two months, put together, out of 24 years.)

Homophobic is something I don't consider myself and never have. My mom and aunts (and their mom) accept and love their gay brother, even if sometimes they want to take a 2x4 to his head for his attitude and poor behavior. My grandma (other side of the family) has friends who are gay, male and female, and invites them to dinners and goes to visit them when they're in town. These factors have had pretty heavy influences on me, as did my step dad's "I don't care if you're gay as long as you're not chasing me" attitude. So I have friends who are gay, straight and bi (and we crack jokes about gender and sexual orientation), and I don't have a problem with transgender people. (Sometimes I feel I should have been born a guy, so why would I want to judge them for having the balls to fix one problem and take on twelve dozen more?)

I could argue terminology in circles, but I've a headache and I feel like things are spinning anyway--not to mention I've company and a birthday party to go to tomorrow--so I think I'll just stop here.

[Windrider Shiva]

My grandparents, as far as I remember, were pretty much against the whole same-sex bill that passed in Quebec in 2006... but that's the only time I've ever heard them say anything against the LGBT community. We have an extended family relative who's openly gay, and my grandparents have always treated him with the same amount of respect as anyone else. Which I thought was pretty awesome; I was bullied for years because my schoolmates thought I was a lesbian.

We used to rent our basement during summers, and we had a gay couple once. I was 10 or so. I remember my dad stating, at the dinner table, that there was nothing wrong with gay people (my dad was awesome!). At 11, I was writing my first M/M story. We got a satellite dish when I was 13, and the lifestyle channel had a LGBT-oriented show, which I watched. That was a breakthrough for me; not because I was lesbian, because I'm not, but because I heard of other people being bullied for it. For the first time in my life, I finally found a community I could relate to. But still, aside my family, I felt alone. I didn't have anyone to talk about it except my best friend, and we were beginning to grow apart at that specific time...

It took me to get our PC and to literally stumble upon yaoi fanfiction, to understand I wasn't alone in this whole "Yeah but I like to see two guys kissing..." deal. It was only then, that I realized why I felt so out of place. I had almost nothing in common in terms of hobby and general interests (culture, languages, video games) and basically, through this LGBT community, I found more communities to be a part of.

My current best friend is a lesbian. Several of my coworkers and friends are gay or lesbian, including my current tabletop RPs' DMs (coworker/friend and her girlfriend). Just because I'm not lesbian and clearly state it doesn't mean I'm homophobic... which some people have not fully understood at times... I'm just not interested in the female body. And since I write about what I like, it ends up mostly being gay guys.

Side note, about my workplace. At least 5 Spanish testers and higher-ups are gay; I think one's bi but I can't confirm. (yep, straight Spanish-speaking males are a minority at work!) We have at least 1 Brazilian Portuguese guy who says he has a boyfriend. 3 French testers are lesbians (haven't seen 2 of them in a long time, they were moved to the translation teams and totally lost touch, hell, I can't even confirm they work or not at our office, still O_o...) It's not that much of a recurring topic, everyone's used to it, but stats like this do come up once in a while... XD

Edited March 1, 2013 by Windrider Shiva

[Raymy]

Overcoming phobias only works through exposure, education, cognitive behavior modification.

I'm in agreement. You're specifically speaking about phobias, and I think that "irrational fear" is at the heart of the matter. Fear may be necessary for the survival of any species, but I'm thinkin' humans are the only species with the "irrational" type, since rationality is peculiar to our evolved brains. So, following this response to Remetan's post:

Keith Inc. says

See, now, i can't see that my phobia needs overcoming. I don't want to have gay sex. I don't want to want to have gay sex.

I don't agree with the logic, here. First, using the word "phobia" as if it means the same as "fear" is minimizing its true nature. If this were really a case of irrationality, proudly stating that you want to keep your phobia is, in itself, irrational (at least as far the rational thinker goes). Perhaps you do have homophobia, in which case, read on.

Additionally, implying that overcoming one's fears means they must engage in the object of the fear is ludicrous, as long as the fear is correctly labelled. Take, for example, the fear of flying or heights. It is really a fear of falling and injury/dying but when we label the activity which might lead to that undesirable outcome as a fear, we believe it is the activity, itself, that we fear. One does not overcome the fear of falling or dying by engaging in unsafe falling or actually dying. We know that we will fall from the air or a great height unless there is some mitigating factor, like aerodynamics of a plane or parachutes or even railings on a steep ledge plus our own impulse control to not jump. People constantly engage in activities that could lead to the feared result, but a rational being incorporates safety precautions to alleviate the natural fear. Stating it as just a fear of falling/dying is not really an accurate phrase for the people with phobias because the majority of humanity has it as a survival instinct but can still board a plane or look out over the Grand Canyon.

When it is a phobia, it becomes irrational because the person can't accept any safety measure, and therefore cannot engage in any activity that might lead to the dreaded outcome. When they are educated and exposed to the activity that is labelled as fear inducing, then one can actually overcome the phobia of the activity, while still retaining the instinctual fear of the outcome, were it to happen. I hope this is clear because I'm attempting to apply this to homophobia.

What is at the heart of homophobia? Irrational fear of what? I think the correct labelling must be defined as it's not about what others are doing, but how it affects oneself. Fear is personal, even a parental fear for your child is fear of species extinction at its core. So, it must be fear of an action upon yourself that would lead to undesirable outcome.

First, we'll drop the "irrational" and just deal with the fear. Is it having a cock shoved up your ass? That's not a fear if you want it to happen. Perhaps it's nonconsensual anal sex? That would be rape, and I would say that is an instinctual fear held by all humans. (Mmm. aside from rape kinks) I wouldn't go into the history of why rape, in general, is feared except that reproduction (for vaginal rape) and control (for anal rape) is most likely the basic reason for both men and women, but that's just my opinion. Pain, injury, and ultimately, death from complications, are probable outcomes from any type of rape. Definitely, justified fear there.

Now, how does a natural fear of anal rape become irrational? That comes when you feel certain activities would lead to your rape, even though the majority of humans can engage in them without getting raped. Things like: watching gay sex in a movie and feeling like you endorse it by doing so, being in the vicinity of gay men, whether as a friend or someone at a public event, and especially, accepting that it willingly occurs for others. None of these things will lead to your anal rape, hence, irrational.

So, aside from rape, what about consensual anal sex? If it is truly consensual, where does the fear stem from for those who wouldn't engage, (because they have a choice)? Yeah, the thought of it makes one squirm because there still may be pain, and other undesirable outcomes like STD's and -- just what about the poop, man? Now we enter the territory of safety precautions. What are those precautions? Ah, well, you'd have to be educated in the subject matter to know, wouldn't you? How can anyone enjoy that? Again, exposure through art or film might educate you. If you have the knowledge, you can overcome the irrational feeling that somehow it can hurt you.

Doesn't mean you should engage in the activity to desensitize yourself, even though, you might be astounded in your response were you to try that avenue. Ahhh, there is another fear. Fear of "becoming gay" if exposed to it. Pretty much irrational from the get go. No natural fear there, unless it's the fear of species extinction again. If you're curious but afraid, education can help, and yes, maybe you might engage when the fear is overcome, but it's still a choice. If you're adamant that you choose not to want gay sex, or not want to want it, then it is irrational to believe that exposure could change that. What you need to overcome is that belief, that somehow, no matter how you feel on the subject, you'll go against your better judgement and do it anyway. Talk about lack of self control. That has nothing to do with this particular phobia and you should check yourself for all other phobias related to impulse control.

I'm saying that learning is not wanting or doing, but understanding and accepting. Whatever the reason for the fear of gay (anal) sex, it's pretty irrational to think you would be subjected to it under any circumstances other than consensual (which isn't an option for those people) or rape, which is out of everyone's control. All other fears relating to anal sex can be dealt with by getting educated, which is not within the purview of this post.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Raymy

[Kurahieiritr]

Somewhat Rant Oriented thoughts, so feel free to answer or ignore. I have many people to answer with this post. Complicated topics always take time to untangle also so please bear with me if you do read this thought provoking post.

After reading all three pages of this topic, I must say there is a plethora of concepts getting touched upon. What homophobia is, and the way it is diversified is the core problem in coping with the subject matter. Many people lump too many variables into the definition without forethought. Homosexuality is an irrational fear of same sex male relationships as I understand the concept. Yet, as a whole, there is a massive double standard involved. Much of it is religious dogma based and smacks of the Organized religious sector's need to brainwash those too lazy to crack their own bibles and read them cover to cover so they get the inconsistencies of their own religions. Evangelical bible thumping variety Christianity tends to be the biggest hypocritical forum of this bad habit. They pick and choose forums to preach as their only truth from the Bible and rarely even know the full spectrum I have found. Those alone are the brainwashed variety, so I am not bashing the whole spectrum, just the moronic types who make the rest of us miserable by preaching we're all condemned to hell. I believe God himself said "Judge not lest thou shalt surely be Judged". Would this classify as automatic certainty that those hypocrites will never make it to heaven since they love to judge others which willfully breaks God's own reserved laws?

My youngest son, 21 years old, is bisexual. Due to his torment, I began writing yaoi, or homoerotic fan fiction to help him come to terms with his sexuality. Since he is too shy to sit down and talk about things openly, I put up fanfiction that he reads when he is at a friend's house. It helps him without forcing him into any corners. He recently thanked me for my insight to his specific uncomfortable problem. (His words, not mine) Because my younger son is a bisexual, he feels he is inferior thanks to the ignorant, and brainwashed element within our society. How does a mother with children age ranged later twenties down to recently turned drinking age cope with such a gentle, yet deeply conflicted soul? I've had to walk a few miles within my suffering son's shoes! I never gave any thought to what is or is not homophobic before my youngest hit puberty and almost had a full blown mental breakdown over his multiple faceted conflicting sexuality. In spite of his homophobic and vicious Father, my son has found stabilizing ground because I accept, and still love him regardless of who he chooses to settle with when the time is right for him.

My Point: The Bible is frequently invoked by those who hate same sex male relationships. Even here I saw such points made as if to validate those who practice blind hatred. The Jewish laws spoken of were squarely based in Hygiene Safety measures. It is called the Kosher Laws for a reason. Kosher more or less should be equated with cleanness or Hygiene measures to promote longevity in an unhygienic place. I have read them over and do understand the underpinnings very well. All of those laws are about preventing everything from food poisoning (hence the different cooking pots for different things like meat and vegetable) to premature sickness induced deaths of other scope.

Before soap and water, gay sex led to premature death because they did not have modern plumbing etc. However, we have evolved to a point that we have these wonderfully designed bathrooms and plumbing so that specific fear of death rarely holds valid meaning in our modern era. Soap and water work very well to promote good hygiene which makes that part of an irrational fear of being around a gay person idiotic. Condoms prevent scat related illnesses, and STD problems. As to staying clean, Soap is that oh so ingenious evolution since the Old Testament was written to preserve the Kosher laws of the Jewish people who did not have baths, nor soap, nor condoms to keep their bodies clean so they would not get sick.

Historically there were "pro same sex" religions, mostly found in ancient "Gentile" nations before the overwhelming spread of, at the time excessively militant, Christianity. Reason for mentioning this; those religions that accepted same sex relationships believed that their God(s) had exempted the gay or lesbian from breeding duties to fulfill a vital role somewhere else within their community. Such religions thought parenthood would stifle the important roles such gays and lesbians were meant to fulfill for the whole community's benefit. Most people blindly clump over 300 faiths into the category of (Neo or classic) Pagan/Wicca. However, these faiths are very diverse. This systemic lumping of religions is another form of the hypocrisy disease that has infected so much of the human race.

My point is this: Religious organizations should be the ones who determine who can and can not get "Married" as it were. If a religion has Government Tax exemption, then the government should grant those "married" under any "Christian" "Muslim" "Jewish" "Buddhist" "Pagan" (and into infinity) church that has exemption status identical legal rights. IF the Church has legal stats, it is only fair to treat all separation of Church and State rules equally. That means validating all heterosexuals, homosexuals, and lesbian couples married under the different recognized religious churches without drawing lines in red tape. If a church believes in same sex couples, then the government that gave it exemption stats ought to recognize all the couples who get married there without making any specialized exceptions.

Next Thread topic: As to men who are terrified of getting attacked by other men, . . . I've known three during my longish life. The underlying problem with 2 was that they were actually bisexuals afraid they would convert to gay if they allowed the opportunity to arise so knee jerk hated all gays as a self defense mechanism. Their greatest fear was being alienated by their peers and family if they stumbled. The fear of being isolated plays a fairly strong role in many gay basher's actions. They are prayed upon by an often irrational fear of abandonment by their longest standing friends, and/or family is one thing I have discovered over several decades. My bisexual son is hated by his homophobic father. Never mind that the homophobic father is a "closet gay" terrified of facing his honest sexuality because his mommy and buddies might dump him for daring to step out of line with the group mentality. Daddy can't tolerate the notion of being reviled by his rather brainwashed buddies.

Shedding light on the double standards involved in this specific phobia and prejudice realm is such a huge underlying problem. How can anyone define genuine Homophobia from Hypocrisy and Prejudice in this day and age? I have met several men in the last thirty some odd years whom are extremely violent haters of same gender male relationships. Here's the Kicker; those same men insisted on anal sex with girlfriends or wives! Who has guts enough to explain that irrational, inconsistent hypocrisy within this forum?! These are men whom cop out with "it's a woman so it is therefore fine to do it to her whether she wants it or not." Some of these same men have been known to rape gay men in brutal ways to prove themselves superior in their own minds. I was pleased to see one go to jail for his twisted logic that raping another man who was gay was a richly deserved punishment. HE went so far as to justify his actions with the Bible no less. I divorced such a "Woman hater" man eighteen years ago. Excuse me, sticking your dick into someone's butt is the same no matter which gender you happen to be banging. Stop attempting to rationalize doing the very thing you have condemned in others who decide that they like the anal deal.That is the height of hypocritical bull, and I think it should be revealed as such.

Also, we have the straight man who adores watching lesbian Pornography. Still happens to be same sex, only it is condoned because the hetero leaning man gets his nut bust. Far as I'm concerned, that equals another double standard that should not exist. Men can enjoy masturbating to girl on girl, but women are not supposed to masturbate to guy on guy is another double standard hypocrisy I am sick of seeing. I abhor such behavior.

Hypocrisy is my biggest pet peeve in case anyone missed that. IF a person is uncomfortable or turned off by gay sex, that should be fine. I'm not into BDSM, and find pain a huge turn off. Does that make me BDSM phobic? Not at all. It means I do not like pain, so refrain from placing myself into a painful relationship. It does not make a person a hypocrite if they are turned off by same sex ideals, nor does it make them homophobic. When people screech that nonsense, they cross into the hypocritical zone. If you do not want to watch a stupid movie, then don't watch it. I watched part of Brokeback Mountain and thought it among the most dull things I had ever seen. Then again, I though the same of Twilight number one. Could no more finish watching that movie than Brokeback Mountain. Torturing others to prove yourself superior is wrong, Immoral, and tyrannical. People are diverse in their thoughts, feelings, sexual orientation, and cultural heritage. Intolerance is the ultimate communicable disease. IT is found everywhere, and it is the only thing that genuinely needs to be eradicated from the world! Homophobia, and all other forms of group hatred are Intolerance disease masked with polite little tags such as Alternate Universe in fan fictional writing.

I apologize that this is so long, but like Mary Sue/Gary Stu, Homophobia is one of those topics I have been studying for some time and have formed a very strong opinion about due to all the stupidity so many spout in it's defense.