Joe Long

maybe you're taking the Fish Mooney comparison a little too far! It's a power struggle, he doesn't really want to hurt her!

Maybe when Adam is stabbing her with something else, when she's in a vulnerable position (his hands around her throat?) "So what's up with blowing some dude right in front of me? I know you're with other guys, but you don't have to throw it in my face!" "Adam, I...I can't breathe!"

I think Nicole was testing Adam. He always knew that she was with other guys (as he was with other girls) but it was out of sight. At the party Nicole did put it in Adam's face, talking to another guy about their casual relationship, and then later (unplanned) doing another guy right in front of Adam. I do think Nicole's trying to find out how much Adam trusts's her, but it can very easily blow up in her face. Adam would know that if he allows her to see him react negatively it might drive her away, so he holds it in - for now. I do think he'll like shit about it later, and maybe confront Nicole privately. Nicole has allowed and encouraged Adam to be with other girls, presumably so he won't be fixated on and demand a relationship from her, but Nicole has always been the puppet master, keeping control over his love life. I think if Adam starts showing any genuine attachment to another girl, such as May, Nicole will try to steer him away, trash talking the other girl. So anyway, what's written is written. Adam didn't flip out. We'll see how bashful will handle it in future chapters. There may yet be a delayed and/or more subtle reaction.

Also, was this the first time that Nicole was willing to go public with being physically involved with Adam? Everybody knows she's been with other guys, but if I recall correctly she and Adam were always private. At the party she let people know about, and let people watch, her and Adam having sex. At least she's not embarrassed by him. That does lift Adam's social standing.

Nicole trusted Adam to an extent, but there was push and shove, a back and forth. It will be a huge step for Nicole to surrender herself to Adam, to let herself be vulnerable. That takes a huge amount of trust she might not have yet. To do this she might also need to be convinced that Adam trusts her enough to let her stray, confident she'll be back. Not silly assumptions! It's fun to talk these out, and learn about humanity through literature. My experience with jashley as been that we discuss ideas on the forum, he lurks and takes what fancies him to work into later chapters. Sometimes we may see something in the characters, or maybe even know them better, than the author does himself. I don't like to ask for or recommend specific scenarios, although sometimes I do suggest plot lines privately. I prefer to look at where the character is now, the issues they are facing, and the decisions they need to make. The author then sees that, in addition to his one thoughts, and decides where to take the story. Last year I privately reviewed some characters where I wasn't happy with their development. It was written well enough, but I didn't like the people the characters had become. The author took those comments and did a very good job of finishing off his story with a satisfactory ending. Also, it's a bunch of us guys, young and old, sitting around writing and talking about women and their attitudes towards sex and relationships. It will be refreshing to get the viewpoint of a real woman.

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! Please make sure you've read chapter 12 before continuing. Let's go step by step. We know Nicole and Adam are best together, but it's to clear to both that they are not exclusive. Nicole craves intimacy (from anyone) to feel wanted, but fears commitment. The other aspect of her that is highlighted in this chapter is her sense of control. Commitment to being a girlfriend might also place Nicole in the #2 spot in a relationship, and because of her fears she wants to stay in control, to be the #1. Nicole puts this Fish Mooney type of manipulation on display at the party when she chats up the three guys who used to make Adam's life miserable. She flaunts her sexual relationship with one of Adam's tormentors in front of him, at the same time publicly shaming ("owned by a girl") the guy who called her "bitch" (Fish was even more emphatic when she insisted, "No one calls me Babe"). Nicole made it very clear to the three who who calling the shots. Then she did it again by showing them that she was going to go upstairs to have sex with Adam instead of any of them. Meanwhile Adam is drunk. He may have only had two, and calls it a buzz, but his reasoning is not 100%. When I was in college my limit was 3 1/2, sipping that last 1/2 all night. Now, as a very occasional drinker, two will have me saying things I might not normally. Once Nicole and Adam get naked upstairs, he pushes back. He knows he's always been #2 in his relationship with Nicole and wants to see how far he can go, with the rough sex from behind and pulling of her hair, which leaves Nicole physically vulnerable to Adam. To what extent will she control her fears to trust Adam? When the opportunity develops, she makes Adam the vulnerable one by putting their sex on display to the other couple. Then Nicole sucks the other guy's cock in front of Adam as if to say, "You can't control me, you can't change me!" You have a very point in the reaction at that point being out of character for Adam, but I'll give bashful some cover in praising how he had developed the plot to that point, as I've just described. I'll argue, once the other couple was in the room and later when Nicole and Adam switched partners, that Adam was caught up in the moment while under the influence of alcohol. That doesn't man he won't feel shitty about it later, after he's done punching out Phil for assaulting May. (after which Nicole wonders, "Wait a minute, who does he really love, me or May?")

Well, maybe like Kayla's idea for a three way, he may have gotten caught up in the moment but it will start sinking in on him later (bashful has a chance to rescue it). But meanwhile, they'll all be distracted with Phil & May. That needs immediate attention.

Chapter 7 is past half, there's about four scenes left. I've been so busy with other stuff. Meanwhile, I went back to the beginning and started doing a serious rewrite, and will re-release the new and improved version. Nothing's changed, but hopefully the story is told better. I've tried to take out things not as pertinent to the plot, cut out the narrator telling the readers stuff (let me tell you about my dad...) and replaced those with new scenes that let the characters act it out and tell each other the same info. A much more satisfying way to tell the story. I will post chapter 1 here in a few weeks and start my own forum so I don't hog up someone else's forum.

Since last fall I've been following K.M. Weiland's blog "Helping Writers Become Authors" and her latest post is about "Dramatic Irony" http://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/want-to-level-up-your-fiction-take-the-dramatic-irony-challenge/ I didn't really see one in my own story, but quickly spotted how when bashful wrote about Jeff and Phil, he gave the misogynistic brothers the last name "Love". Love is about giving and the Love brothers are, well, only about taking!

Welcome bashful! I'm looking forward to some public conversation about my favorite character, Nicole.

Great! I had suggested that to him the other day. Then maybe I'll get myself moving and post my re-edited story. Are there any age restrictions here? In bashful's latest chapter he wrote that Adam is 14 and Megan had been 13 when she did stuff.

Around the same time, not quite as bad but something I still beat myself up about for a long time. Ran into a girl at Dairy Queen. She just graduated from my HS, but had only been in town a year so I never met her even though she lived one block from me. Went to her house, talked, she showed me around. Her parents were gone, we were the only ones in the house. We were hitting it off great. I thought this had a future. Then she told me they were moving to Georgia in three days. I was so shocked, stunned, disappointed. Such promise, then snatched away. I said, "I just don't know what to say, what to do, I've never been in a situation like this, to meet someone and then find they're leaving." She leaned in and whispered, "Go for it." My mind already reeling, I thought, "What? Did I hear that right? I don't want to try something she doesn't want!" "What?", I asked. "Never mind. Hey, I have to get up early, and I think my parents are going to be back soon - nice meeting you!" "Can I come back tomorrow?" "I don't know, I'll be busy packing." "I can help!"

but when I was a 19 year old virgin working Friday & Saturday nights at the hospital, the 40 year old nurse told me if I DIDN'T start using it, my dick would shrivel up and fall off. one day she even asked me to come up to the supply closest with her, and once there said that's where the doctors liked to grab the nurse's asses...but I was a dolt

See - now THAT'S why teenagers shouldn't be having sex!

With Kayla, I think at the time she had talked herself into it, but deep down inside didn't want to. Thought she was helping a friend. Now she has to face up to her own actions. Many years ago my PC broke down when I didn't have a lot of money. Tried to fix it myself. Fried it, messed up my billing paying and other things. Even after things were resolved, was depressed and mentally beat myself up for the mistakes I could see in hindsight. "If I had been smarter, not acted so quickly, all the troubles could have been avoided". That's where it was Jack's job (in her mind) to save Kayla from her own bad decision. I'm writing a scene where Joe and Hannah are in a group, things get uncomfortable for her, but she doesn't speak up. Finally she runs off in tears. Joe catches up, calms her down, and she tells him why. He asks, "why didn't you say no?" "I was waiting for you to say no - they would have listened to you!"

or it takes Jack an extra second to look away when the new girl's wearing her shorts in gym class That is not the definition of female logic. We had two concert tickets, but she went into false labor. Everything was stabilized, but she had to spend the night. "Go ahead, go to the concert" "Are you sure?" "Yes - go!" "The concert was great!" "You went??" "You told me I could!" "You should know I didn't mean that!"

Well, I'm thinking, last September Jack hated to get out of bed, had to shut off that alarm and drag himself off to the first day of school...and then he met Kayla. A year later, it's time to start his Junior year. Are there any new girls at Brow Ridge? Will Jack notice? Will Kayla notice first? Will Kayla be keeping an eye on Jack for any sign that he notices? Or BOOM WOW Jack doesn't even have time to realize he's been washed over by a tidal wave...but he already has Kayla. How does he calm down his hormones and stay faithful to his true love? I made a list of 12 over the last 40 years, 8 in the 30 years that I've been married. It can be real distracting, but I haven't strayed.

The author Joe, before ch 34, said that someone from the past will be making a comeback...leaving us all guessing

can you post a link to your story?

It was like "oh, she's gonna sit right there...she's so close, I can feel her warmth, I'm tingling all over...if the pastor says to hug the person next to us, I know I'm gonna pop a boner and go straight to HELL!...and after that I'll have to hear it from my wife"

I'm asking specifically about an overwhelming, sensory overload, non-rational response. No time to think.

Was thinking of something while I drove to work this morning, and wanted to ask you guys, many of you still young. Is it me, or how I'm wired, or are most/all guys this way? Over my life, I'd say less than ten times, there have been girls/women I've met who have just given me an immediate, overwhelming reaction. No chance to think, to even really check her out rationally. Unplanned, unexpected. She walks though the door and WHAM! I'll tingle all over, even feel like I'm drunk as my mind is numbed and can't think of anything else. Even 35 years later I can name off this short list of mine, as they were all memorable. The problem is, what if you are already in a loving, committed relationship/marriage when this new woman appears?

I was pointing out that while possible, it's also improbable.

Kayla does not endorse that theory. But it's possible. Would they keep it a secret? Of course everyone would know Jack's not with Kayla anymore. He'd have to be either for some unknown reason celibate or openly banging his cousin. Maybe he just marries her and moves away.

There's another angle on the ex who's still around. Kayla seeing Tara, because she's part of Jack's family, will forever remind her of that one night of what those two did. In a deifferent scenario, I'll use Alan & Amanda as examples. They were intimate, in love, in secret, for several months. Once Alan gets into a stable relationship with another girl, there's always going to be, in the back of his mind a some longing to get back with Amanda b some pain over the break up with Amanda c or both that will interfere with his ability to commit to another girl, because Amanda will always be there, just the sight of her to remind him