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The duodenum is a C-shaped section of the small intestine that connects directly to the stomach. Medical text books generally state that digestive juices and enzymes from the liver, gallbladder and pancreas empty into the duodenum to aid digestion. Gallbladder?! That’s literally nothing more than a reservoir for the bile given to it by the liver! Stop giving the gallbladder credit for something it doesn’t deserve! Okay, medical rant over.

Heh, I doubt most of my readers are aware of this. Guess my just acquired copy of Eats Shoots and Leaves may be obsolete...

Having an editor or several betas is an ideal, but the world doesn’t seem to provide as many of them as are wanted. The college bud who ‘did freelance editing’ never really responded to a heya to catchup, before I could sound her out about professional help. So it’s more ghosting. I find editing short and flash stories to be less wrenching in editing. I haven’t invested as much and criticism is less painful. Paid editing would be cheaper for short works, too, if I went that route. As a reader, I’ve noticed far fewer grammar and usage issues in shorter stuff than longer. That seems to hold for pro and fanfic. Some genres, the short story was the traditional gateway for new writers. That starts pro contects and lets some bootstrapping work for you. Once established as a short writer, the publisher may offer editing like for BW, or you will have acquired some fans for betas. A LOT of recent books list multiple betas in the forwards. But it still comes down to grabbing your readers, enough to give reviews, enough for editors want to acquire the story, and enough for buyers to throw money.

This is not the profile you’re looking for… move along.

Having no shame about tooting my own horn, here are some stories of mine that you might enjoy. A Day at the BeachA shapely mom and her 10-year-old son enjoy themselves at a nude beach that is unusually family-friendly. Located : Erotica > Het - Male/Female Content Tags : Anal COMPLETE HJ Inc M/F Minor1 Minor2 Oral PWP Voy Mommy's HomeAfter returning from a long business trip, a loving single mother spends some quality time with her uniquely gifted young son. (mother/son incest, straight shota, hyper, preg risk)Located : Erotica > Het - Male/Female Content Tags : Bi COMPLETE F/F Inc M/F Minor1 Oneshot Preg PWP SatisfactionA mother and her son and daughter find that their personal issues have a common solution: expressing their hidden feelings for one another.Located : Erotica > Threesomes/Moresomes Content Tags : Anal Bi COMPLETE Exhib F/F Fingering HJ Inc M/F Minor1 Oral Voy

I think the majority of fiction has an accepted condensed timeline in order to keep the story tight. Characters don't have to worry about sleep, travel time, going through the bathroom, etc. In this case, we can suspend belief that Alex can have sex four or five times a day, the girls are all squirting-multi-orgasmers, and they don't have periods. I think the reality is that many of these character developments might happen over a period three to five times as long, but we can suspend belief for the sake of keeping the story tight. It wouldn't be very interesting if there was a fast forward in every chapter, Cara/ ariana/ dove spent a realistic 30 days in transit, and everyone had an average amount of sex.

This is Canada, DP. Our angry mobs favour the hockey stick.

It might also make an interesting plot-line for a story in its own right, too. “Alvin and his boyfriend Buford thought they were hiding their torrid relationship while going to Wacko State in Texas. Until Alvin grabbed the wrong thumbdrive for his creative-lit class and uploaded the story to the school server without reading it first...

You know, writing gay smut for a creative writing class in a conservative small town might prove to be an effective fitness program when you’re trying to outrun the hordes of pitchforks ...

I love the idea of a creative writing class, just for the pure educational value of it. Learning is always valuable. But for me and people like me, it’s not an option for feedback for two reasons. Price is the first one. Personal interest classes generally run $100 and up. Actual programs will run a lot more than that (where I am). There are online free options, but those are best for independent learning rather than getting any honest feedback. Second reason is simply the subject matter. If I were to write a story for a class, I would not write the sort of things I prefer to write. I wouldn’t write anything close, because gay-themed smut does not seem like an appropriate subject matter for a creative writing class. I certainly wouldn’t have the balls to put one of my stories forward even in an open-minded university environment, much less in a very conservative small town lol. So the class could be awesome for honing skill if one can afford it, but perhaps not ideal for the sort of feedback we’re griping about lacking.

Yep, definitely, that’s why I generally scope out the publishers/self-pub sites, looking at everything, to see if they’d even fit on content. Based on what I’ve seen, self-pub is likely the best option, but that means hiring an editor. Well, when it’s time to move into that, I’ll be doing my research to find good editors that aren’t too picky (or open minded).

You would know your personal circumstances far better than I. You should also be as “comfortable” with your publisher as they are with you, at least in my opinion. If your publisher does not want your work for the reasons you described, their printing your work might actually be WORSE for you than not. If your work was published by such a publisher, and the Westboro Baptists or others of their ilk came after you, you would truly know what “loneliness” feels like when they “cut and run.”

I’m no longer in the class-taking mindset (kinda got burned out after finishing that masters). And I still have trepidation because of the content that I am writing, be it a writers group, an editor, or a publisher; those under-18 tags and some religious bigotry too. Of course, my material’s not yet to that publishing point, so there’s that. (I need to revise and get the main story moving along before I’m confident on all the points where my various stories intersect.) There are countries where the mere fact it’s “under-18” is illegal. Others will decline it’s because its sexual. So, some publishers just outright ban under-18 for those reasons. Some will avoid it for philosophical/religious reasons. And that’s before we get to portrayal/presentation/taste.

One possibility that might be available for some is to take a “Creative Writing” class at their local community college. This will at least enhance your core writing skills as well as potentially give you a “pool” of “peer-reviewers.” If the Professor is a good one, and likes your work, you may also find at least some editing help, provided the Professor believes his time is not being wasted. Desiderius Price, with all the pure muck, trash, and hell that comes “over the transom” at any good literary agency or publishing house, an author needs whatever advantage they are able to find to “make the cut” to their editors. While actually hiring and paying an editor would be a substantial if not extreme commitment to the quality of your work, finding fellow writers who are willing to invest the time into YOUR work, and whose work is at least as good as if not better than yours can also get the quality up high enough. Of course, your work may not be “accessible” enough for commercial publishing, but that is a separate issue. BronxWench, You have made it. You have been published on the merit of your writing alone, without having to pay MONEY on top of the work of writing itself. As an author, you spend as much time promoting your work as you do creating and editing it. The biggest difference between a “vanity” publisher and a “conventional” one is who owns the three cases of books in the back of your car as you go from bookstore to swap-meet to convention trying to get people to buy your book. The publisher always pays themselves first. Since I don’t have a “signature file” handy, I guess I’ll put something amusing below manually. “Tito’s Vodka—because everyone knows you drink vodka for the flavor.”

Quite frankly, I was in Minor2 territory when I discovered sex. When you’re talking about 16 and 17 year old kids having it off, no one really gets out a pitchfork. But I think the 13-and-under set will always be something publishers, and even some distributors, will treat with caution. That’s not to say a great many mainstream fiction novels don’t have scenes of child abuse, including sexual abuse, and that’s not to say there haven’t been novels which had consensual sexual contact with or between children 13 or younger. But that will bring out the pitchforks faster than anything, and get the novel dropped like a ball of hot lava.

I even have to be careful on the self-pub sites, some of them restrict minor1 too. Its annoying because I want my stories to have realism to them, however, people like raising pitchforks when it’s even suggested that everybody’s a perfect angel before their 18th birthday*. This will factor in the editor search because I’d need someone able to read it. * I’m aware that some jurisdictions have puritanical legal standards not distinguishing between fictional stories and picture taking, fortunately, not where I reside

I have never had my work pre-edited. Honestly, I’ve never even really had a beta reader. My fandom stuff is too obscure for most people, and I’d need to find a beta who’s willing to read original fic that might be MM, or maybe MF, possibly fantasy-based, post-dystopian, alternate historical, or just plain controversial. I’m all over the place as far as settings and content.

Yep, it’s the cost that makes me question whether to publish or not. I see some mention of people hiring an editor before submitting to a publisher, but that has me wondering why bother with a regular publisher if I pay the biggest part myself.

In a nutshell, that’s the biggest issue—the cost. I’m pathologically stupid when it comes to any sort of graphics, but I know people, yourself included, who can do brilliant cover art. I can handle formatting a document, and I’m fairly decent at grammar and punctuation. But I need that editor, and the only way I can afford it is to publish via a small press, and have their editor review it. Yes, I share royalties with the publisher, but I get the editing I need, and the cover art I can’t do to save my life. It seems fair to me, and either way, I’m going to have to market the daylights out of myself once more. I’ll do my bit and work hard, and be grateful for the editing.

I’m not discounting the rest of your post, but as a twitter conditioned person this really spoke to me! AFF, give me a heart to click!

You can do the whole CreateSpace thing for free, absolutely. But that brings you back to readers being irate about spending money for a hard copy of an unedited book. They’ll leave cranky reviews, and since CreateSpace isn’t offering books through their own online store anymore, it means those cranky reviews will be on Amazon, its parent company and now sole distribution hub. Revising and editing are not the “fun” part of writing, to be sure. The first time is like cold water in the face. You’ve sold this manuscript to a publisher, and no matter how small the press, it’s pretty exciting. Then you get the first round of edits, and you wonder why they even took the book, if so much was wrong with it. But here’s the thing. As the writer, you know what you want to say, and you have this whole world in your head. You think you’ve put it all down for the reader, but guess what? You left out whole bits you think are obvious, but which aren’t to readers, including your editor. Or you’ve gone into such exhaustive detail, your editor fell asleep during the painfully precise description of the outfit your MC is wearing (right down to the designer brands) which took fifteen paragraphs over two and a half pages. You want to be sure they have that picture in their heads, too, but the readers have already put the book down. I had an editor comment to me, “They drink a lot of tea.” I looked, and sure enough, every time my characters needed to talk about something, they had a cup of tea while talking. The poor bastards were floating in tea. It was just so overdone as to be sort of a joke by the midpoint of the story, and it was taking away from the real point of the discussion, because tea, again?!? It made sense to me for them to be doing something while talking, but I was wrong, and I spent a good deal of time editing that out. Every time I’m facing edits, I remind myself that Stephen King gets edited, too, and I’ll bet he doesn’t let Molly (aka The Thing of Evil) bite his editor, either.

@Wilde_Guess If you self pub, you’d be paying. However, if you’re not too picky about quality and skip the editor, and it’s relatively inexpensive with something like CreateSpace (an amazon thing). @Anesor A laundry list of spelling/grammar does mean they’re reading your story Feedback, as a whole, means they’re interested. As @Tcr stated, a lack of feedback can be nasty, and that’s when I use dragon prints as a fallback, as I figure a large jump in numbers between chapter/episode postings hints at some level of interest. @sweetmamajama I try to review when I read. I’m just more of a writer here as I find it more fun playing in my own sandbox. I had a beta for a little while, but then she got busy and now I post without it.

I’ve considered self-pub, but then I’d have to worry about exactly that, an editor and that sort. Think I’ll stick to AFF for the time being (however, if a publisher sees my work and is interested, message me ).

I agree it’s kinda on a case by case, IMO. @Tcr mentioned lack of feedback, which is feedback itself, however, the lack is much harder to discern because there’s a TON of reasons for lack of feedback, and AFF readers, in general, tend not to give as many reviews per view as other websites. In the absence of reviews, the dragon print counter is the only feedback I typically have, so I kinda measure “interest” by how much it jumps after I post. In the case I mentioned, I tried splitting a story, based on a setting change, and the dragon prints kinda hinted that wasn’t a great move, so I backtracked. As @BronxWench mentioned, though, sometimes a revision based on feedback might not be best for the story (and in that case, editor feedback carries more weight than a reviewer). So, guess the moral is to take feedback with a grain of salt. Some feedback, like grammar or ambiguity can be better to heed, while others (ie. the mating pairs of characters) might be better to simply thank for the feedback but otherwise not worry about. In the absence of feedback, that’s when you should consider soliciting another opinion before completely rewriting or even pulling a story. That’s my $0.02 worth.

Feedback use to effect me and how I would write a story. I had one work called ‘The Gates of Heaven and Hell’ and it ended up with two split timelines – one that the readers seemed to like then the one that I originally envisioned. Needless to say that the “favorite” version was never finished. I lost interest even though readers seemed to like it because I wasn’t as invested in that storyline as I was in my original one. That taught me an important lesson. I think it’s a Catch-22. It’s hard to find a balance between what you enjoy writing and what readers will enjoy. If you aren’t happy then chances are the work won’t see a conclusion. Plus, you have those readers who are ardent followers of a writer and will read anything and everything said writer publishes. My process is different now. I tend to write several chapters before I consider posting any work, and most of the time it doesn’t see the light of the internet. LOL. Saying all that, I do have one work where I have had lots of reviews and that has encouraged me to continue writing, though things don’t get put out there as much. And I do work collaboratively with other writers and readers. There have also been suggestions (some in reviews and some emailed to me) that I have taken into consideration and even implemented into the work. I believe that it’s based on a “case by case” scenario. There are some stories that you create and don’t want to see major changes and then there are some that you feel free enough to take those risks. I think it depends on how you feel about a work as to how it progresses, whether that is the pace of your writing or the plot of your story.

And then, once you think you have the basics of editing yourself down, the Chicago Manual of Style releases a new edition and you find yourself relearning the correct use of commas.

So my dad died recently. He was very old, and was refusing treatment because he was tired of how debilitated he had become, so I’m at peace with it. He had a good life. But this morning, I had my first “I have to remember to tell him about...oh, wait, I can’t” moment, and that made me a little sad.

Time flies. Realized that last night was two months without my favorite cat, I still miss him as much as ever.

Absolutely, lack of feedback makes me change stuff! Sometimes the change is as simple as pulling the story. Sometimes it gets more complicated as I attempt to read the minds of readers to figure out what the problem was. And seeing as how I’m a pretty shitty psychic, I end up changing a lot of things in a panic until the story is unrecognizable or just not what I wanted to begin with soooo either way it’s usually a terrible decision on my part lol. But doubt does that to me. Makes me make terrible decisions.