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Personally, I looove the antagonist role. I love a good villain, so naturally I have a looot of thoughts on this matter. I agree that the villain should think they’re doing the right thing in most cases. (Especially with new writers or writers whose strengths are not in the more naughtiness-inclined characters) But I also do think there are uses for the stereotypes. And the comical bad villains. If done well, a villain who knows they’re doing the wrong thing and loves it can be so friggin awesome! I think my favourite type of villain, usually reserved for the drama or survival genres, is the kind of person you actually find yourself rooting for and getting broken hearted over. Someone you can totally relate to and like, and want to see succeed even if you know they’re doing something they shouldn’t be doing. Like the opposite of an anti-hero. An anti-villain? lol. For every kind, though, especially the ones who you try to make sympathetic, you have to be careful not to try to make them sooooo normal and relatable they become uninteresting. When writing a villain, regardless of the type you go for, I think it’s the same as writing every other character. The most important thing, to me, is to understand what motivates them, to get into their heads, to understand what they’re feeling. Even if they’re motivated by sheer LOLs. I need to see through the villain’s eyes, to feel their hatred, lust, frustration, love, or jealousy. Personally, I always need to love my villains, even if I want my readers to hate them. I was going to say more on that last point, but I’ve gone on long enough and not entirely sure what I’m talking about anymore because I have so many people chattering in my ear.

I tend to prefer mine realistic, so that typically means the antagonist isn’t evil-evil, but rather, operating from a different point of view. In my stories, that typically means the more “evil” characters believe they are doing the Lord’s work, believe that they are being righteous in doing so, or believe that they’ve been wronged somehow and it’s justice/revenge being levied out.

So... While watching a truly terrible movie and writing my own, I had a thought. Watching the antagonist, a mere caricature and, admittedly, boring in that regards, I started thinking to myself, ‘How?’ Obviously someone had to be paid to... Dare I say write this villain? I’m not sure that’s capable of being said. I’m pretty sure whoever put him in there looked in a dictionary under villain and took all the cliches... Which is not always a bad thing... So, coupled with a bit of a discussion with my beta regarding the same ideas within the last few weeks (has it been longer? Maybe longer... Either way...) I kind of examined my own antagonists (mostly minor in terms of the overall story at this point) and began seeing that most of what CR and I had discussed had already been put into place. Some minor tweaks here and there, a few added things into the character, a couple odd search topics in Google... And a very questionable, yet still lacking detail report regarding said character that is currently saved on my computer... Hopefully, the minor antagonist in Chapter V has taken on a new life that is not a cartoony version of hyenas marching... At least, I’m happy with the way it’s turned out. I’d like to think that I added enough to humanize, dare I say relate to (a scary thought, I know), that character. Those little bits that develop a personality, at least in terms of this one, and create a living breathing antagonist and not a two-dimensional paper cut out as I had seen within the movie... So, then, thoughts abounded... And perhaps could help other people in writing their own antagonists... How does everyone else create their antagonists? Now that I’ve rambled on and on and on long enough to bore people to death... I’d like to hear your ideas, thoughts, writing processes, and maybe there’s someone else who will benefit outright as well...

Blood and Honour Chapters IV/V: Thanks for the review, BW, definitely lifted some spirits today. (And the Muse thanks you, too. Gave her a little time off the hamster wheel getting things cranking. <Speaking to Muse> Okay, break time’s over, get back to work!) From ANON - BronxWench on January 27, 2017 I read Chapters 4 and 5 together, and I honestly think it heightened the impact. The farewells were touching, and it was hard to see the couples parted, especially since they had to bid farewell via proxy. But that is only the first step for them, for now they need to pass under closer scrutiny than usual. Originally, much of Chapter IV was part of III, but I decided to break it and expand a little on it in the attempt to draw out a lot more emotional impact. I’m glad that it worked, definitely made my day to read that. I honestly felt that it needed to be shown and, while I’m sure some would disagree, I felt that it was better out at Berlin Anhalter Bahnhof, amidst the potential scrutiny and painfully observant prying eyes rather than within the safety of their apartment. Not only that, but I thought it showed a little more on how they reacted with each other out in public as opposed to their interactions in private. Mathilde seems to be able to make an easier transitiion, if only because her superior is complicit in her deception about her gender. He seems enough of a pragmatist himself, and woould rather have a gifted sniper in the ranks rather than behind a typwriter. I can’t deny that writing Kleinmetz has been interesting. He’s intended to be a composite of a few people within the ranks who were pragmatic and intelligent. I hope this comes across in the story and his character. While trying to tame myself from making the judgments from a detached, 80 years later viewpoint, he is the voice of reason (hence lines such as ‘We are a nation surrounded on all sides by our former enemies’), which, while not a blatant statement against the propaganda, is meant to be implied against the obvious slander that the National Socialists pushed. And, yes, he definitely prefers that one extra person against the massive hordes that would be banging on the gates of Germany sooner rather than later, especially combat oriented. Admittedly, Matilde’s transformation... I wanted to try to find a balance between difficulty and the story-telling without losing too much of either. It was this that largely affected the creation of the character of Kleinmetz, who became more willing to overlook her than the first writing attempt with regards to Matthias Schmidt. The original draft, I thought, dragged on a little too long with regards to it and took away from the chapter. So... some things were cut to make way for the pacing and the over all tale. Some people have probably complained about it, but oh well... But Hanna will be hard pressed to maintain her role, I think. Her instincts as a nurse, to nuture and care for people, will not serve her well in the hell in which she's currently living. She will need to learn to present a harder front. I have my suspicions about what she will see in the circle, only because I am well aware of the capacity mankind has for brutality. I would imagine beating a homosexual to death would be deemed a form of rehabilitation, hm? I admit, it’s kind of funny that you put up this review today. A lot of my recent post on the forums regarding the antagonists came, indirectly, from my attempt at writing Waeckerle, who was a real life figure. The last thing I wanted to create a caricature and have him spout off traditional Nazi anti-Semite propaganda and hate. So I did some research, finding very little, discussed things with CR about this, and proceeded to go back over this a thousand times and add in little details. I do hope that this makes him less a two dimensional figure and more someone who could have been your neighbour. She definitely will have to. I do expect you’ll enjoy the later chapters as they’re added and I can imagine what you believe she’ll have found in the circle. Indeed, I expect anyone versed even slightly in Interwar Germany has many suspicions as to what lies beyond the guards because, to paraphrase you, mankind has a high capacity for brutality. Especially if they’re told that it’s okay, that it’s right to do so. As for beating any of the so-called untermenschen to death being deemed a form of rehabilitation via the government and propaganda, there are no doubts to that. Human rights within Germany at this time took a massive leap backwards and off a long, steep cliff. Research to make this scene was...hard. The real Waeckerle was investigated for numerous deaths (marked as ‘killed while trying to escape’ or executed for ‘violent insubordination’/’incitement to disobedience’), some merely as an example for no other reason, while other Commandants were responsible for ‘accidentally’ letting it slip that Prisoner A was homosexual to the other prisoners, whereupon those prisoners would descend on that prisoner. This scene, which may not be entirely accurate, is an amalgamation of a lot of that research. A dark time indeed, now that I’ve rambled on... A dark world indeed, but your eloquent writing makes it well worth the journey into the abyss. Excellent chapters, and I will look forward to more! I’m glad you’re enjoying it and hope to continue to keep your fancy as it proceeds along. Thanks again for the review.

Thank you! They are being quite obvious. I fear their relationship will end up as an open secret, and I don’t think they care very much either. I feel sorry for the Sindar who have settled with them, because I think they’ll keep quiet about it all out of their love for Limeithel, and partly for their guilt. They know they have thrown her to a wolf. I have to say, Curufin as a character feels quite cold. I don’t think elven women are going to have an easy time in this story. He seems to have a love/hate thing going on. Celegorm is less cruel, but he’s not going to be intervening at all. Thank you again! Curufin is very childish at times… at least Celegorm sees the logic of not falling out with Caranthir over this, even if his temper almost scuppers it. I knew when I took this challenge up that the only way to explain the evil deeds these two get up to is to make them obsessional with each other. Where the world between the two of them becomes more important than the world outside. Add the oath to that, and it might just all make sense. Of course, any characters that become involved in their story are not going to have much fun. :/ Limiethel is going to grow up fast. She’s got stars in her eyes, and Curufin is a bucket of ice water. I promise it won’t be too harrowing though. That obsession hasn’t really developed yet, so while he is selfish and thoughtless, Curufin is still mostly sane.

Thank you, Bronx! Poor Elrond, but he hasn’t quite had enough yet. I think I am a subscriber to this idea of elves remaining until their grief is too great for them to stay. It fits very well. Because he hasn’t quite had enough, some kind of normal service will be resumed in the years going forward. Legolas is going to feature heavily in those years. You always leave such wonderful compliments, and I am sure that if anything I write can take you away from the week you’ve had, then I’m glad

“And the comical bad villains” Right there, I got the image of the ‘60s Batman villains of the week… Not the good old ones like Joker, Catwoman, Mister Freeze, Penguin, or Riddler… Ones like King Tut, who are just so laughably comical… But you are right, of course. There are places for the stereotypes, although, to me, it has to be carefully done, too… “the kind of person you find yourself rooting for and getting broken hearted over” A vibe of the Walking Dead coming on… I have to admit, most of the bad guys, I find myself actually kind of cheering for in there, so I understand the point and, if done right, the villains can definitely overshadow and take over the piece. I find myself thinking back to a conversation I had with someone else regarding the characters of the Toby Maguire Spiderman. I could not, for the life and through the attempt, find myself rooting for the ‘heroes’… No, it was Dafoe’s Goblin or Molina’s Doc Ock… Even Grace’s Venom or Franco’s Goblin… They took the cake in there, to me, because they were pretty sympathetic villains... I definitely agree here. Writing the villain should be no different than any other character, albeit with what society would deem as darker intentions. ‘Motivated by sheer LOLs’, I just get the 60s Batman Joker running around with that… But you’re right, seeing through the antagonist’s eyes and understanding whatever it might be is a necessity, I think. I also think that, if you can evoke strong emotions, whether love or hate, for your antagonist, then it makes their downfall or rise that much sweeter when it comes to that.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m certainly proud of the haunted places in my area. . Places do take on a life of their own and you’ve managed to instill that life through your words and excellent word choices. I can’t really say I know what it’s like in New York, but I know from my own experiences that anonymity and being the introvert does lend itself to people misunderstanding determination for obsession. I have known many people with whom the opposite holds true, so you’ve captured that quite well, too. Her own thoughts and justifications that the expense of the camera will benefit her in the long run kind of serves to cement it and is what a lot of people I know personally have done to justify their own obsessions. “If I do this today, if I get this, then in two months/years, it’ll pay back” instead of “in order to get there, I have to do this first”. Madness? Aren’t we all mad in some idiosyncratic way? Isn’t that how we’re unique? Maybe that’s just my craziness. lol. To end this rambling, incoherent statement… You’re welcome. It was quite enjoyable to read and I should be thanking you for the opportunity to do so.

I, too, prefer the antagonist to be realistic. It makes it more heroic (shall we say) when the protagonist final overcomes them. I definitely have to agree that operating from the different point of view and doing what is ‘right’, a technical view that is quite subjective, thus working quite well in describing their mindset, is a good way to make them real. Real people make decisions all the time that otherwise lead to the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. An example that comes to mind for that is actually, strangely, from Star Trek. ST: Nemesis, for anyone not versed in this, has a clone of Jean-Luc Picard as the villain of the piece. While not the greatest and most powerful villain in the franchise (that, by far, has to be Khan from Wrath Of Khan… Okay, digress finished...), it does provide the example… Shinzon’s backstory falls into a series of backstories that describe his rough upbringing under horrendous conditions, thus leading him to lead a coup and murder off the government and take control… Et cetera, et cetera… Whereas Picard’s choices reflect the good within the UFP… Shinzon’s reflects the darker choices… ‘For now we see in a mirror darkly’, the view of what could have been had situations been different. To me, that’s what makes a good villain, a good opposite to the hero. The ‘what could have been if things were just a little different in the hero’s life. Those that believe they are doing right, too, make for a good antagonist, whether that comes from some deep religious beliefs, malformed opinions based of the propaganda and hate, or justice/revenge, as you’ve pointed out. It brings a human element to them, makes them relatable. And, to me, at least, a relatable villain is, by far, the better one.( (Sorry if this is rambling, disorganized, and incoherent… Maybe this is a sign not to answer after being up all night...)

Nope, none at all.

I suppose it’s like all the other changes over the years and I’ll get used to it, but I’ve only had a smartphone for literally three months and I never had one seconds trouble navigating the site on it. *shrugs*

Sure, Lincoln may just be lousy pedophile, but with a lot of practice he could be a fantastic pedophile.