Putting original songs in a fic

[GeorgeGlass]

So I recently read Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind, and I noticed that although the main character is a bard (among other things), there aren’t any song lyrics in the book. The author sometimes describes what the songs are about, but we never see the actual words. 

That got me thinking: Is it a good idea or a bad idea to write song lyrics for a fic? Unless it’s a “sung to the tune” of kind of song,* the reader won’t know how the melody goes. But maybe readers will make up their own; I don’t know.

Thoughts?

_{*Or, in the case of the Hogwarts school song, a “pick any tune you want” song}

[Sinfulwolf]

I’ve seen it done before. Tolkien did it, and so did Brian Jacques in his Redwall series. I mean, it does let you get a bit more creative and potentially show a bit more of the world. In my personal opinion I always felt it slowed down the story too much. I got pulled out too much to try and figure out what the melody was, and to basically hear a story in the story I was reading. And being a good writer of narrative doesn’t make one a good song writer.

[BronxWench]

I’ve also seen it done, and like @Sinfulwolf I found it more distracting than useful... outside of Tolkien. I confess to a blind adoration of all things elvish.

[Sinfulwolf]

1 hour ago, BronxWench said:

I’ve also seen it done, and like @Sinfulwolf I found it more distracting than useful... outside of Tolkien. I confess to a blind adoration of all things elvish.

Well we all have our little weaknesses. I love elves (thanks Warhammer for that...), and kind of wish I knew it.

[JayDee]

Prose and songwriting/poetry are differing skillsets. If you’ve got both, go for it. if you haven’t got both, go for it anyway with enthusiasm because fuck it, writing’s about having fun.

I’ve read a few books with chunks of original lyrics in and it’s been mostly fine – one author had comic songs at the start of every chapter, though that was a funny book.

[Desiderius Price]

I’ve quoted songs before, when it’s really appropriate (with citations, of course).

[Anesor]

I will admit most songfics and even ones that allude to a song in detail usually fail- because the song detracts from the characters and mood of the story, almost without exception. Stories come to a screeching halt even more if the song is out of context for the fiction, like  popsong and vaguely medieval fantasy that doesn’t have any jet planes… I avoid songfics also because the song also rarely enhances the story unless you already know it, and the lyrics alone don’t cover the mood.

Because of that I resist reading or writing songfics. I included a marching song/prayer in one story and found it incredibly hard to write. The artistic payoff for the extra erroft is not worth it.  I really resent a writer’s demand that I track down and listen to an unfamiliar song to understand the chapter. I’;m not in the same emotional space when the writer came to love the song. And when I have, the music didn’t move me so it ends up a negative experience. No win scenario.

[GeorgeGlass]

I guess I should ‘splain my motivation for starting this thread. I’m working on turning my story “Eddie Forever” into a legitimate novel, and at one point, the MCs hear a song by the villain (who moonlights as a hip-hop artist) on the radio, which helps them figure out who the villain is.

Because the hero and villain only interact a few times during the story, I thought it might be useful to actually write and include the lyrics to “Burn It Down” as a way of giving the reader a little more insight into what’s going on in the villain’s head. But I don’t want to do that if it’s just going to end up being a mental speed bump for readers.

I wrote a couple of original songs for my Loud House fic “The Miss Cutie Patootie Pageant,” and a couple of people mentioned liking them, so I feel like maybe it can work. Or maybe there were a hundred other readers who didn’t like the songs at all but didn’t want to say so.

[Anesor]

That sounds fine in my book because it grows out of events in the story and ties in. I was speaking about pop songs that depend on exterior materials for the story or scene to make sense. Original songs that are written as part of the story must fit the mood of the story.  Michael Bolton didn’t know the mood of my story twenty years later and his lyrics may mean something totally different to a reader based on their RL and that takes control of the story’s mood out of my keyboard.

Your “Burn It Down” sounds like a useful grace note and the memory of a terrible cover of it by Jerry Lewis will not disrupt your story. (Hope I was clearer this time)

[Sinfulwolf]

If it works, it works. While I’ve stated that my experiences with it haven’t worked, that’s because they’ve never been tied to the plot very tight. If it is, as you @GeorgeGlass are indicating, it may well work. But as with all things, mileage may vary. And something like including song lyrics can be rather polarizing.

[CloverReef]

I used to write songfics. When I was in the fanfiction world, I wrote a number of them. I even wrote one original songfic. But that was years ago, and in retrospect, I think it was a mistake, disregarding the whole issue of whether or not the songs were original or quoted from existing music, I just don’t like the whole thing. Like BW and sinful, I find, and I have always found lyrics in fiction distracting. They take me out of the world, UNLESS, and that’s a big unless, the lyrics are integral to the plot. Like a verse is a clue to something. But if it’s not integral to the plot, to me, it feels too self-indulgent, and does more of a disservice to whatever emotional atmosphere has been built up thus far. 

If anyone reading this has a story and you wrote original music for it, I’m going to give you some crazy awesome advice: learn a programming language like Java or just get yourself a good video editor, and make yourself an immersive, visual novel complete with illustrations and music. I loooove those things. Or, if those things sound like too much work, make an audio book! That way the music won’t distract from the story, it’ll compliment it! See? I’m a genius. 

Edit: Seriously @GeorgeGlass, even though I just kinda shat all over your idea, there’s nothing wrong with doing shit your way. If I was your beta, I wouldn’t tell you not to; I’d ask you how important it is to the story, and to write a scene with and without the lyrics and decide for yourself which works for your style, pacing, and story best. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by CloverReef

[Anesor]

Ouch, a video or audio novel for a very rare song is way too much work. It’s a very different skill set, the same way watercolors are. I sometimes feel sorry for those on the Youtube content treadmill. I think I’ll stay with words and limit most music mentions to the background. Songfics are foreground.

[Desiderius Price]

The nice thing here is you can experiment with the form, or not, with little consequence (except for diminished dragon prints).

[BronxWench]

11 hours ago, GeorgeGlass said:

I guess I should ‘splain my motivation for starting this thread. I’m working on turning my story “Eddie Forever” into a legitimate novel, and at one point, the MCs hear a song by the villain (who moonlights as a hip-hop artist) on the radio, which helps them figure out who the villain is.

Because the hero and villain only interact a few times during the story, I thought it might be useful to actually write and include the lyrics to “Burn It Down” as a way of giving the reader a little more insight into what’s going on in the villain’s head. But I don’t want to do that if it’s just going to end up being a mental speed bump for readers.

I wrote a couple of original songs for my Loud House fic “The Miss Cutie Patootie Pageant,” and a couple of people mentioned liking them, so I feel like maybe it can work. Or maybe there were a hundred other readers who didn’t like the songs at all but didn’t want to say so.

Now this I can see working quite well. When the song is a clue, a way to pinpoint a villain? Yes, absolutely put that original song in there. In fact, I’m agog with admiration because I can barely cobble together a freaking 8-line prophecy without anguish and exasperation.

[JayDee]

Good luck making it a legitimate novel, George! I hope it works out for you.

Edited July 25, 2018 by JayDee

[CloverReef]

11 hours ago, Anesor said:

Ouch, a video or audio novel for a very rare song is way too much work. It’s a very different skill set, the same way watercolors are. I sometimes feel sorry for those on the Youtube content treadmill. I think I’ll stay with words and limit most music mentions to the background. Songfics are foreground.

It is a lot of work, but for some of the people already creating original music, the extra work to make it audio and incorporate those extra senses is absolutely worth the extra headaches. It’s exciting; it opens up new creative avenues, and it doesn’t feel like extra work if you love what you’re doing. Of course, if you don’t, it absolutely will feel like too much work. So you just gotta do what’s right for you.

My advice was meant for people who are already venturing into other mediums to consider alternative and creative ways to make it work for them. We’re not just limited to the words on the page if we don’t want to be. 

[Desiderius Price]

14 hours ago, CloverReef said:

It is a lot of work, but for some of the people already creating original music, the extra work to make it audio and incorporate those extra senses is absolutely worth the extra headaches. It’s exciting; it opens up new creative avenues, and it doesn’t feel like extra work if you love what you’re doing. Of course, if you don’t, it absolutely will feel like too much work. So you just gotta do what’s right for you.

My advice was meant for people who are already venturing into other mediums to consider alternative and creative ways to make it work for them. We’re not just limited to the words on the page if we don’t want to be. 

*Whistles as DP works on the software to his story database...or plays around with 3D modeling architecture in Blender+Unreal*