Hiccup the Overlord discussion thread

[Strange_idea]

So, had two ideas. I think you have a good amount of field minions as it is, so what if the pink minions were tower servants made by zarina. It gives her a bit more character too and it'd be fun to have allies inside the castle during the takeover.

Also, had an idea for airel. What if it's hinted at early on but not said until her first chapeter that ursula has an outside contact that she meets in a cave in the towers basement, ariel. She meetas with the young mermaid and feeds her crush on hiccup in exchangenfor favours, fetching ingreedients or other tasks. 'Mermaid kisses' could be a potion ingrwdient or something to revive the drowned and they wonder were ursula gets them.

Meanwhile ariel has been getting news or bits of trivia abouy hiccip in exchange, ursulas doing this on purpose to build up her crush and make her useful but its up to you whethed she's actually training a suitor (one loyal to hiccup and to herself). It started when they were just kids and she was too shy (and a mermaid) to approach him and ursulas been makinhlg sure it stays that way ever since. She sought out a legndary witch or fortune teller to understand her feelings and ask if she has a chance, and ursula made sure to feed her a romantic narrative to keep her hooked and has been hanging the legs thing over her head for years. So naturally, when in trouble grom the empite, she goes straight to her 'prince' to save them.

Of course, ursula's been omitting toothless, astrid and the other misresses or has convinces ariel it's normal and she'd be lucky to be a part of it.

Ariel also helps him out annonymously from time to time when near the ocean or spies on hiccups enemies for ursula, letting her fill him in.

[Strange_idea]

You could have aurora as a similar 'suitor' trained by maleficent, but for difderent reasons and with different methods. Maybe she's been sending images to pretend to be her fairy godmother, to train her as a succesor and filling her head with an image of her prince that looks exactlt like hiccup.

Given that she lives secluded in the woods, she.could actually meet hiccup before her time and help him on his first quest, giving him shelter and directions, only to refrain from making a move because he's injured and she's not finished her study yet (the deal was she finishes, maleficent would help her. She doesn't want to.cheat her godmother), so she patches him up and sends him along, only to be sent with him to reclaim her kingdom during the empire adventure later. She could also be the witch who helps merida defend dunbroach

[Jwsponky]

6 hours ago, Strange_idea said:

You could have aurora as a similar 'suitor' trained by maleficent, but for difderent reasons and with different methods. Maybe she's been sending images to pretend to be her fairy godmother, to train her as a succesor and filling her head with an image of her prince that looks exactlt like hiccup.

Given that she lives secluded in the woods, she.could actually meet hiccup before her time and help him on his first quest, giving him shelter and directions, only to refrain from making a move because he's injured and she's not finished her study yet (the deal was she finishes, maleficent would help her. She doesn't want to.cheat her godmother), so she patches him up and sends him along, only to be sent with him to reclaim her kingdom during the empire adventure later. She could also be the witch who helps merida defend dunbroach

 

6 hours ago, Strange_idea said:

So, had two ideas. I think you have a good amount of field minions as it is, so what if the pink minions were tower servants made by zarina. It gives her a bit more character too and it'd be fun to have allies inside the castle during the takeover.

Also, had an idea for airel. What if it's hinted at early on but not said until her first chapeter that ursula has an outside contact that she meets in a cave in the towers basement, ariel. She meetas with the young mermaid and feeds her crush on hiccup in exchangenfor favours, fetching ingreedients or other tasks. 'Mermaid kisses' could be a potion ingrwdient or something to revive the drowned and they wonder were ursula gets them.

Meanwhile ariel has been getting news or bits of trivia abouy hiccip in exchange, ursulas doing this on purpose to build up her crush and make her useful but its up to you whethed she's actually training a suitor (one loyal to hiccup and to herself). It started when they were just kids and she was too shy (and a mermaid) to approach him and ursulas been makinhlg sure it stays that way ever since. She sought out a legndary witch or fortune teller to understand her feelings and ask if she has a chance, and ursula made sure to feed her a romantic narrative to keep her hooked and has been hanging the legs thing over her head for years. So naturally, when in trouble grom the empite, she goes straight to her 'prince' to save them.

Of course, ursula's been omitting toothless, astrid and the other misresses or has convinces ariel it's normal and she'd be lucky to be a part of it.

Ariel also helps him out annonymously from time to time when near the ocean or spies on hiccups enemies for ursula, letting her fill him in.

These are ideas. I admit I hadn't given much thought to the inclusion of Aurora, since while I admit its been many a moon since I've watched 'Sleeping Beauty', from what I remembered she didn't have much personality, being more of a prop than a character…

 

As for the Ariel idea, the best I'd come up with is she approaches him as his forces pass Everlight Reef to ask his help with dealing with the invading Empire troops, since I plan to make telling Hiccup the Empire is in an area have roughly the same effect as waving a flag at a bull, due to the fact that the Empire wants to eradicate magical creatures, which make up a considerable portion of Hiccup's citizens, as well as the Empire possibly having conquered the Archipelago before Hiccup, killing Stock, and maybe Gobber.

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Oh i figured. I actually came into this thtead mid discission about aurora, you may remember. i just think the forest witch angle lets you do more with her without addibg another kingdom PLUS it lets you play with the caracter traits she has and let her go from prop to mysterious helper. This is partially based on her first envpunter with the prince in maleficent. Think of her as maleficent's supporting character, they help define each other.

 

As for ariel, I'm not saying bring her in before that, i figured that's where she'd be, i was thinkig of a relationship backstory to keep the relationships interesting. Plus it's a play on her canon personality. And by hinting at it sooner you can have introducing her, it will feel like buildup and payoff. The idea is ariels's meeting at the reef is told from her perspective and includes a backtstory timelapse similar to hiccup's opening, explaining the hintz at her presence and why she's approaching him (he would look a little scary).

Plus it's a unique character introduction, which keeps the audience interested and ivolved. Also, it helps flesh out ursula as a manipulativr deal-maker taking advantage of people. You just drop hints at her every now amd then until she shows up.

Not to mention it's a bit more character for the sorceresses.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Strange_idea

[Strange_idea]

It also helps the girls feel like characters, rather than collectable props, which helps the story go longer. I'vs seen a lot of harem stories fall victim to that

[Jwsponky]

18 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Oh i figured. I actually came into this thtead mid discission about aurora, you may remember. i just think the forest witch angle lets you do more with her without addibg another kingdom PLUS it lets you play with the caracter traits she has and let her go from prop to mysterious helper. This is partially based on her first envpunter with the prince in maleficent. Think of her as maleficent's supporting character, they help define each other.

 

As for ariel, I'm not saying bring her in before that, i figured that's where she'd be, i was thinkig of a relationship backstory to keep the relationships interesting. Plus it's a play on her canon personality. And by hinting at it sooner you can have introducing her, it will feel like buildup and payoff. The idea is ariels's meeting at the reef is told from her perspective and includes a backtstory timelapse similar to hiccup's opening, explaining the hintz at her presence and why she's approaching him (he would look a little scary).

Plus it's a unique character introduction, which keeps the audience interested and ivolved. Also, it helps flesh out ursula as a manipulativr deal-maker taking advantage of people. You just drop hints at her every now amd then until she shows up.

Not to mention it's a bit more character for the sorceresses.

 

16 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

It also helps the girls feel like characters, rather than collectable props, which helps the story go longer. I'vs seen a lot of harem stories fall victim to that

These are ideas, though one passing thought I'd had about the inclusion of Aurora (or is her name Briar Rose? I've heard conflicting tales over their years...) was for Maleficent to have been captured near the end of the events of 'Sleeping Beuaty', leaving Aurora under the effect of the eternal sleep spell and surrounded by the 'forest of thorn vines' spell, with the two unintendedly giving Aurora Poison Ivy style powers, at least over the thorn vines by the time of the 'present'.

Admittedly not sure though how long it should be between the reigns of the Black Baron and Hiccup though...

 

 

Jumping topics again (I mentioned yesterday I can have a short attention span), concerning the characters of Frozen, what if king Agnar and queen Idun, or at least I think those are their names, never took the fateful trip where they died, or Agnar took it alone, and after Hiccup conquers Arendelle Idun offers herself to him, with the intention of distracting him from harming Arendelle, only for Elsa and Anna, misinterpreting the situation as Hiccup forcing himself on their mother, to try and seduce him to distract him from Idun?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Bit tied up but have an ide

[Jwsponky]

7 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Bit tied up but have an ide

Okay, proceed when ready then

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Family dinner. Gonna be a bit sorry.

Buy i have a good idea for each

[Jwsponky]

4 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Family dinner. Gonna be a bit sorry.

Buy i have a good idea for each

As I meant to say, but my keyboard didn't register, proceed when ready. Take your time

[Strange_idea]

Now before i begin, let me tell you a bit about maleficent the movie. Basically, while watching and waiting for her curse to take effect, maleficent winds up doing most of the raising (to make sure the fairies don't accidentally off her early) and seeing her as a daughter (aurora thinks shes her fairy godmother). She can't call off the curse though, and turns out the prince who met her maybe once does not have enough true love to break it, but it also turns out a mother's love is enough to break it.

So in this scenario, maleficent was SO close to redeeming herself but the king caught her before she could save her goddaughter, and gave her to the black baron. Aurora has been sleeping but not aging ever since, but the reat of the kingdom has crumbled away and the elf forest grew in it's place. Maleficent has been understandably bitter about it. 

 

First idea, what is aurora was oberon? As in the elf fallen hero is already dead bybthe time the game starts, he died fighting his way to aurora to stop the corruption, or managed to find her, beat back the forest and has been reading to her and singing to ease her nightmares, and fighta off hiccup, thinking he's here to kill her. He apologises after he realises that he isn't going to kill her, and hiccup regrets killing him, which is a weird feeling for him.

The idea is, her dreams and poison ivy thing are responsible for the cursed forest, and the taint ment for oberon worked it's way into her instead. He made up for his mistake, letting the tree get her, by spending the rest of his life keeping her nightmares down. but hiccup wakes her up instead of killing her.

Or more accurately, hiccup fails to wake her up, and maleficent demands he bring her to him and kisses her daughter goodbye. This wakes her, which leads to maleficent taking her in as daughter and student, leading to my 'witch aurora' idea where she goes off to find her own and becomes the dunbroach witch (and also rules the fairies), but keeps in contact with her mother via crystal ball.

 

 

My idea for the queen in frozen is thar Idun WAS on the ship and DID survive, but she washed up on a foreign shore and has been living there lost and amnesiac ever since. Probably viking territory or the kingdom before arendale, since thay lets you lead from one thread to the next (It's a good way to keep audience attention). She doesn't have much of a character, so this gives us a chance to build her up and make her interesting. Possibly she became a warrior, or studied magic because she knew she had to protect something. so that when she recovers her memory, she more or less belongs with her new family and the overlord. Maybe she's a bookkeeper at the tower, who was saved by ariel and brought to ursula to save. She doesn't get her memory back for a while, but gives hiccup advice every now and then.

Hiccup goes in to tell them their mother's still alive, frozen happens and the sisters get crushes on him. When he goes to leave, he mother asks him to marry her, like you suggested or just says she belongs with him and that she's proud of the queen the sisters have becone. Alternatively, queen idun is going back to the tower to learn more abou magic so that she can help her girls. In this version, the sisters don't think he's forcing hinself in her. Instead, they don't want to lose their mother again (and the man they've come to love, but mostly her), so they marry him too to keep him around (they both volunteered to step aside for each other, since they could see the other was in love, but were pressed for time and both married him to speed it along) He has to leave, but promises he'll be back and sets up the tower gate to show them they won't be alone anymore

In this version, hiccup is the kristoph, but at the party he approaches elsa to tell her and winds up making a good impression, liking her and enjoying hinself so much he forgets to tell her the news. He wins her over more by protecting anna when things go wrong and wins anna over with his stories and helping look for her sister, plus fighting besides her. Hans is still hans, and when he breaks anna's heart hiccup saves her and keeps her awake by telling her stories as they go after elsa. When he offers to help with her magic problem he's won them over, and when he fibally delivers the news about their mother their his for life.

[Jwsponky]

3 hours ago, Strange_idea said:

Now before i begin, let me tell you a bit about maleficent the movie. Basically, while watching and waiting for her curse to take effect, maleficent winds up doing most of the raising (to make sure the fairies don't accidentally off her early) and seeing her as a daughter (aurora thinks shes her fairy godmother). She can't call off the curse though, and turns out the prince who met her maybe once does not have enough true love to break it, but it also turns out a mother's love is enough to break it.

So in this scenario, maleficent was SO close to redeeming herself but the king caught her before she could save her goddaughter, and gave her to the black baron. Aurora has been sleeping but not aging ever since, but the reat of the kingdom has crumbled away and the elf forest grew in it's place. Maleficent has been understandably bitter about it. 

 

First idea, what is aurora was oberon? As in the elf fallen hero is already dead bybthe time the game starts, he died fighting his way to aurora to stop the corruption, or managed to find her, beat back the forest and has been reading to her and singing to ease her nightmares, and fighta off hiccup, thinking he's here to kill her. He apologises after he realises that he isn't going to kill her, and hiccup regrets killing him, which is a weird feeling for him.

The idea is, her dreams and poison ivy thing are responsible for the cursed forest, and the taint ment for oberon worked it's way into her instead. He made up for his mistake, letting the tree get her, by spending the rest of his life keeping her nightmares down. but hiccup wakes her up instead of killing her.

Or more accurately, hiccup fails to wake her up, and maleficent demands he bring her to him and kisses her daughter goodbye. This wakes her, which leads to maleficent taking her in as daughter and student, leading to my 'witch aurora' idea where she goes off to find her own and becomes the dunbroach witch (and also rules the fairies), but keeps in contact with her mother via crystal ball.

 

 

My idea for the queen in frozen is thar Idun WAS on the ship and DID survive, but she washed up on a foreign shore and has been living there lost and amnesiac ever since. Probably viking territory or the kingdom before arendale, since thay lets you lead from one thread to the next (It's a good way to keep audience attention). She doesn't have much of a character, so this gives us a chance to build her up and make her interesting. Possibly she became a warrior, or studied magic because she knew she had to protect something. so that when she recovers her memory, she more or less belongs with her new family and the overlord. Maybe she's a bookkeeper at the tower, who was saved by ariel and brought to ursula to save. She doesn't get her memory back for a while, but gives hiccup advice every now and then.

Hiccup goes in to tell them their mother's still alive, frozen happens and the sisters get crushes on him. When he goes to leave, he mother asks him to marry her, like you suggested or just says she belongs with him and that she's proud of the queen the sisters have becone. Alternatively, queen idun is going back to the tower to learn more abou magic so that she can help her girls. In this version, the sisters don't think he's forcing hinself in her. Instead, they don't want to lose their mother again (and the man they've come to love, but mostly her), so they marry him too to keep him around (they both volunteered to step aside for each other, since they could see the other was in love, but were pressed for time and both married him to speed it along) He has to leave, but promises he'll be back and sets up the tower gate to show them they won't be alone anymore

In this version, hiccup is the kristoph, but at the party he approaches elsa to tell her and winds up making a good impression, liking her and enjoying hinself so much he forgets to tell her the news. He wins her over more by protecting anna when things go wrong and wins anna over with his stories and helping look for her sister, plus fighting besides her. Hans is still hans, and when he breaks anna's heart hiccup saves her and keeps her awake by telling her stories as they go after elsa. When he offers to help with her magic problem he's won them over, and when he fibally delivers the news about their mother their his for life.

I admit that I had been leaning towards Sleeping Beauty's 'evil for the fun of it' Maleficent, mainly because that was the version I had seen, though I might see if the library has a copy of the new film I could borrow, but what if we combine the two?..

The fairy kingdom that Aurora's father was at war with, possibly believing them a threat to his own people due to their magic, was the Pixie Hollow corner of Evernight Forest, leading Maleficent to curse baby Aurora out of spite, for revenge, or as a warning to leave the fairies alone, leading to her banishment, and eventually she regrets her curse, but is captured by the Baron before she can try and break it, her last act being to try to protect Aurora with the forest of thorn vines since the Baron's forces had already crippled the kingdom?

On that note did said kingdom ever receive a name in either film?..

Then while raising Hiccup Maleficent plays up her regret, possibly omitting that it was she who cast the curse all together, and maybe claim that her banishment wasn't entirely fair since she was trying to protect Pixie Hollow, only for queen Clarion to sternly point out that Maleficent did in fact curse an innocent baby, leaving Hiccup confused, either because he's not sure which tale to believe, or because due to the sorceresses' teachings he thinks it was a sound plan since it was in fact an enemy innocent baby, and possibly considering throwing a fire spell at the fairy scolding one of his moms.

 

As for the Frozen idea, I'm struck with the idea for a scene where after Hiccup finds out about Elsa's ice powers, he sincerely compliments her "With some training you could be dangerous." only for Elsa to take it the wrong way.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

I like both ideas. Seriously, your maleficent is what i was going for but even better.

But the fairy kingdom was huge in maleficent, so what is pixie hollow was just the capitol? Also the elves moved into the kingdom after they won, but it was common knowledge what the girl was to maleficent so no one wanted to move her out of fear of attracting her wrath should she return.

Also i think it should be the confusion as to who is right, as while they could get hiccup to understand cursing an enemy cursing an enemyninnocent baby would be a bit much, and i see maleficent, the one who'd stress atracking the deserving and enemies over attacking the innocent, as the most likely to get involved with direct mothering. Ursula's an opportunisy, grimhildes a disciplinarian and authorive figure, and mim's a wildcard fun but dangerous figure. Maleficent is the most civil, and dangerous but willing to attend a cristening until shes rebuked. I see her as someone who sees evil as a tool, not a vice to be indulged. And easily angered by incompetence.

That argument with the fairies is brilliant though, and i think it should shake her enough to tell her daughter to go with them to learn to be better than her, though she threatens the fairies for her safety.

 

For Frozen, i like the idea, but i feel hiccup should realise his mistake decently quick, just not quick enough. He has to have grown enough that the girls like him. Also he's been exposed to a lot of non-evil at this point. Including several allies.

It's fine for him to fall back on old habits, or have his own way of looking at things, in fact it's good writing. Particularly if he was geeking out at the magic, speaking personallynit can make you say some dumb things.

Just warning you not to keep him in that state from story start to finish. He should be aware enough to realise what went wring and apologise after he comes down from his awe at the magic.

[Jwsponky]

21 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

I like both ideas. Seriously, your maleficent is what i was going for but even better.

But the fairy kingdom was huge in maleficent, so what is pixie hollow was just the capitol? Also the elves moved into the kingdom after they won, but it was common knowledge what the girl was to maleficent so no one wanted to move her out of fear of attracting her wrath should she return.

Also i think it should be the confusion as to who is right, as while they could get hiccup to understand cursing an enemy cursing an enemyninnocent baby would be a bit much, and i see maleficent, the one who'd stress atracking the deserving and enemies over attacking the innocent, as the most likely to get involved with direct mothering. Ursula's an opportunisy, grimhildes a disciplinarian and authorive figure, and mim's a wildcard fun but dangerous figure. Maleficent is the most civil, and dangerous but willing to attend a cristening until shes rebuked. I see her as someone who sees evil as a tool, not a vice to be indulged. And easily angered by incompetence.

That argument with the fairies is brilliant though, and i think it should shake her enough to tell her daughter to go with them to learn to be better than her, though she threatens the fairies for her safety.

 

For Frozen, i like the idea, but i feel hiccup should realise his mistake decently quick, just not quick enough. He has to have grown enough that the girls like him. Also he's been exposed to a lot of non-evil at this point. Including several allies.

It's fine for him to fall back on old habits, or have his own way of looking at things, in fact it's good writing. Particularly if he was geeking out at the magic, speaking personallynit can make you say some dumb things.

Just warning you not to keep him in that state from story start to finish. He should be aware enough to realise what went wring and apologise after he comes down from his awe at the magic.

You make a good point about the 'cursing a baby vs. cursing an enemy' thing, and I'm undecided between Hiccup realising his mistake and apologising, or utterly confused by Elsa's reaction and needing the reason pointed out to him, as it was a sincere compliment since from Hiccup's point of view, being dangerous means you can defend yourself and others

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Oh i underatand, and it's a good inner conflict, i was just saying it could be a sign of growth that he realises what he did. You could up the tragedy and personal growth by havingbhim make thr mistake a few times early in his career. That way, when he makes the mistake with elsa, it makes sense, it's continuity and he looks better as a person since we know it's a habit and he seems to be trying ti grow out of it. I'd have him promise not to say anything like that to her again after he apologises. And i'd probably avoid having elsa use her magic offensivly even when she joins, only defensivly.

Do you like my sorceress mothering style ideas?

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Oh i underatand, and it's a good inner conflict, i was just saying it could be a sign of growth that he realises what he did. You could up the tragedy and personal growth by havingbhim make thr mistake a few times early in his career. That way, when he makes the mistake with elsa, it makes sense, it's continuity and he looks better as a person since we know it's a habit and he seems to be trying ti grow out of it. I'd have him promise not to say anything like that to her again after he apologises. And i'd probably avoid having elsa use her magic offensivly even when she joins, only defensivly.

Do you like my sorceress mothering style ideas?

The parenting roles seemed good ideas,  as does keeping Elsa in a defensive position

And now I'm struck by the idea that Anna being the one to point about the mistake, possibly in the language of the fist since the movie showed she wasn't shy about throwing a punch, leading Hiccup to comment that she can hit surprisingly hard for someone so small, especially if Hiccup's complement was given when Elsa loses her temper and control at the ball, should I go the route of having Hiccup participate in the events of Frozen, instead of just going to Arendelle to fight the Empire.

I have remembered two more people I had once considered adding that could be called 'Frozen characters' that I read about on the Disney wiki trying to find the names of Elsa and Anna's parents, Helga and Ingrid, who apparently showed up in the show 'Once Upon a Time' and are Idun's elder sisters, and Ingrid had the same ice powers that Elsa would inherit.

I've never watched the show they appear in though, so not sure I'll add them...

[Strange_idea]

Eh, not a lot to work with and they didn't show up. Maybe mention they died on the boat but i don't see a pot ifnuse for them.

Punch-anna is brillant, and hiccup should fear her mighty fist! Though she should be upset with him he would probably explain himself okay. Did you know there's a fan theory she has super-strength? At least a mild version.

When i said frozen happens, i meant with the empire getting involved. Elsa's meltdown would be a great bonding experience, and a way to keep out the mother until needed, plus it would prevent a full-scale invasion but also allow a smaller force and subterfuge which hiccup could reroute. It would also slow them down and allow hiccup more time to reach new lands. Plus it would force some character growth.

 

If may suggest, Arendale is under inspection by the empire, but not attack yet. hiccup arroves just in time for the corrination/a peace talk (since arendale isn't all that big or guarded, it looks like a trade or naval kingdom) and comments how different it is. He doesn't bring in the minions becayse without empire to fight he'd just cause a panic and give them public support. While there, the nobles are talking about the empire's movement and their runoured interest in arendale, but don't beleive in the supposed witch queen. Hiccup sees a nervous lady of around his age and tries to tslk to her, only realising she's queen elsa later when someone calls her that, though he notes she was enjoying the conversation and pretends not to hear the queen thing. The party is very tense, discussing the threat of magic and the danger it's users posess. Eventually, peace breaks down, and the empire reveals they have a massive force prepared to march on arendale. Elsa stands firm and throws them out, despite empire sympathisers lime weslton protesting. While preparing to defend, and worrying wether she did the right thing and wether she truly is a danger to her people, elsa reveals her magic to hiccup (probably because he shows her his to reassure her) and he accidentally, you know.

She can't take him accidentally agreeing with them and flees, and the empire soldiers  (who stuck around to launcch sneak attacks) mostly follow. She loses the soldiers in the woods, and from her pov we that she figures 'that they want magic, fine. She'll draw them away from the arendale', not expecting the blizzard, or han's attempt to sell them the kingdom. Hiccup wants to attack the soldiers, but since there's no actual war yet and so many innocents at risk he holds out and goes with anna when she heads off to find elsa. Empire soldiers try to bring her in outside the gates, but he takes them out and she flees. Hiccup leaves mirage to watch the city and bribgs toothless (which anna LOVES, especially since he catches up aftet she falls in the river). Mirage takes out a few enemies and sabotages wesltons attempts to gain favour with the empire. 

Basically, frozen WITH the empire about to attack, but being held back by anna's blizzard. It seems like a better way to bond with the sisters, and hiccup can declare his kingdom's alleigance and drive them off afterwards.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Strange_idea

[Strange_idea]

Just trying to mix it up. Variety makes a good story

[Jwsponky]

46 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Eh, not a lot to work with and they didn't show up. Maybe mention they died on the boat but i don't see a pot ifnuse for them.

Punch-anna is brillant, and hiccup should fear her mighty fist! Though she should be upset with him he would probably explain himself okay. Did you know there's a fan theory she has super-strength? At least a mild version.

When i said frozen happens, i meant with the empire getting involved. Elsa's meltdown would be a great bonding experience, and a way to keep out the mother until needed, plus it would prevent a full-scale invasion but also allow a smaller force and subterfuge which hiccup could reroute. It would also slow them down and allow hiccup more time to reach new lands. Plus it would force some character growth.

 

If may suggest, Arendale is under inspection by the empire, but not attack yet. hiccup arroves just in time for the corrination/a peace talk (since arendale isn't all that big or guarded, it looks like a trade or naval kingdom) and comments how different it is. He doesn't bring in the minions becayse without empire to fight he'd just cause a panic and give them public support. While there, the nobles are talking about the empire's movement and their runoured interest in arendale, but don't beleive in the supposed witch queen. Hiccup sees a nervous lady of around his age and tries to tslk to her, only realising she's queen elsa later when someone calls her that, though he notes she was enjoying the conversation and pretends not to hear the queen thing. The party is very tense, discussing the threat of magic and the danger it's users posess. Eventually, peace breaks down, and the empire reveals they have a massive force prepared to march on arendale. Elsa stands firm and throws them out, despite empire sympathisers lime weslton protesting. While preparing to defend, and worrying wether she did the right thing and wether she truly is a danger to her people, elsa reveals her magic to hiccup (probably because he shows her his to reassure her) and he accidentally, you know.

She can't take him accidentally agreeing with them and flees, and the empire soldiers  (who stuck around to launcch sneak attacks) mostly follow. She loses the soldiers in the woods, and from her pov we that she figures 'that they want magic, fine. She'll draw them away from the arendale', not expecting the blizzard, or han's attempt to sell them the kingdom. Hiccup wants to attack the soldiers, but since there's no actual war yet and so many innocents at risk he holds out and goes with anna when she heads off to find elsa. Empire soldiers try to bring her in outside the gates, but he takes them out and she flees. Hiccup leaves mirage to watch the city and bribgs toothless (which anna LOVES, especially since he catches up aftet she falls in the river). Mirage takes out a few enemies and sabotages wesltons attempts to gain favour with the empire. 

Basically, frozen WITH the empire about to attack, but being held back by anna's blizzard. It seems like a better way to bond with the sisters, and hiccup can declare his kingdom's alleigance and drive them off afterwards.

This is a good plan, though once again my imagination has given me an idea for a completely different topic, specifically the succubi of the first game…

What if they were essentially vampires that fed on mana instead of blood,  and the zombies around Heaven's Peak were the result of them draining to much mana from men, with the zombies then draining mana themselves to try and return to normal, in an attempt to start a localized zombie apocalypse that could kill Sir William so they could go home, since he was the one to summon them, only his permission or death, which they are magically prevented from doing directly, could release them, and  the queen, possibly after feeding on Hiccup and realizing he has more than enough mana to sustain her, offers Hiccup a deal, if he kills William for the succubi, she'll stick around as his mistress?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

I like the mana zombie idea, plus the succubus plan.

Hmmm..... okay this might seem a bit weird, but what if demona is the one he turns down? That's the part of the story, but he takes both the girls. The one you don't choose is supposed to let the overlord in, and demona is FAMOUS for her treachery..... i mean she backstabs william the first chance she gets, so ifnshe had access to an even STRONGER overlord. as a bonus, we could make her a spy for hades as well, reporting to him when the overlord falls.

Plus, by turning a girl down it makes the girls who do impress him a bit better. She could still sleep with him, just as part of a plan, not because she's joining him. I mean why would he trust her?

And, well. Weren't we gonna make meg the new hades? Which would make her the ruler or the abyss and therefore the mistress? 

Plus, she seems the type to just drain all of him. Maybe hiccup turns her down, but does let her into the tower. She betrays him for the old overlord and flees to hades when he fails. She's almost a mistress in the 'sub-ruler' sense and does seduce him but throws it all away to bet on the other guy. She winds up drain of mana as a gargoyle after hades plan backfires, as a nod to her source material.

Feel free to disagree

[Jwsponky]

16 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

I like the mana zombie idea, plus the succubus plan.

Hmmm..... okay this might seem a bit weird, but what if demona is the one he turns down? That's the part of the story, but he takes both the girls. The one you don't choose is supposed to let the overlord in, and demona is FAMOUS for her treachery..... i mean she backstabs william the first chance she gets, so ifnshe had access to an even STRONGER overlord. as a bonus, we could make her a spy for hades as well, reporting to him when the overlord falls.

Plus, by turning a girl down it makes the girls who do impress him a bit better. She could still sleep with him, just as part of a plan, not because she's joining him. I mean why would he trust her?

And, well. Weren't we gonna make meg the new hades? Which would make her the ruler or the abyss and therefore the mistress? 

Plus, she seems the type to just drain all of him. Maybe hiccup turns her down, but does let her into the tower. She betrays him for the old overlord and flees to hades when he fails. She's almost a mistress in the 'sub-ruler' sense and does seduce him but throws it all away to bet on the other guy. She winds up drain of mana as a gargoyle after hades plan backfires, as a nod to her source material.

Feel free to disagree

I admit I had not considered the history attached to the name Demona, it was merely the first 'female winged humanoid' name that occurred to me, and seemed appropriate given succubus=demon, she might have ended up as Demona in name only, and just for the sake of saying, the idea of Hiccup taking the succubus queen struck me before the idea of Hiccup going to Greece and meeting Megara.

 

You have made some convincing arguments for combining Hades and the Forgotten god, but if I remember the Hercules show correctly the showed that the Norse and Egyptian pantheons were separate organizations from the Olympians, so maybe the two deity elvish pantheon could be its own group as well…

 

Not sure who'll let the previous Overlord into the Tower, might be that the wizard has been possessed long enough that Rose and Velvet don't realize that he's not really their father, or rather the body is but not the soul, so when he stops by to visit his daughters they welcome him with open arms, or maybe since he's the previous Overlord he knows about a back door or two and sneaks in.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Sorry. I just figured it be fun to have a romantic false lead. And it migjt be interesting for a girl to be syraight up villain. Though it doesn't have to be. The sucubus could be a running gag of a bad influence.

 

Hmmmm. Hey, what if the forgotten actually went mad and is just a titan for hades to control now? OR, the tians are his old pantheon, and hades plan is to unleash them on the world above.

Remember what i said about the gods rotating? Well presumably that would include the elf goddes, so maybe sealing him away would prevent him reincarnating. Hades plan could be to kill off every other pantheon so only he's left.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Strange_idea

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Sorry. I just figured it be fun to have a romantic false lead.

 

Hmmmm. Hey, what if the forgotten actually went mad and is just a titan for hades to control now? OR, the tians are his old pantheon, and hades plan is to unleash them on the world above.

Remember what i said about the gods rotating? Well presumably that would include the elf goddess, so maybe sealing him away would prevent him reincarnating. Hades plan could be to kill off every other pantheon so only he's left.

Eh, is nothing to apologize for.

Though my comparing of succubi to vampires has given me an idle thought…

What if, in addition to/instead of giving birth like most races, succubi increased their numbers by turning women of other races into succubi via biting them, and the succubus that Hiccup takes as a mistress, either Demona or perhaps one named Elisa, turned Hiccup's other mistresses? 

Not sure if the turning would be consentual on the part of the other mistresses, but I lean towards yes...

[Strange_idea]

Plus it would add variety

[Strange_idea]

Hmmm.... How about Eliza is a woman from the town converted by the succubi, a female paladin (aka a police officer) lookinh for an out, while demona is evil and loving it and the hades/old overlord spy. She aids the old overlord out of revenge, and eliza helps fight back the succubi ajd is rewarded by acess to thr mana well of the tower, so she doesn't haven to kill anyone.

Hmmmm...... i can see the appeal, buy like i said, variety helps. An all-sucubus harem ruins some of the uniquness, and is a terrible idea for a sorcerer anyway. He can support one easily, but all his girls as succubus would either drain the whole tower or glshow him having so much magic it kills and tension.

 So maybe only demona can PERMANANTLY change people, but eliza can temporarily change them.

 

If we do the queen idun amnesiac at the tower angle, she could be said to be trying to cure her as foreshadowing for helping her daughters.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Strange_idea