Strange_idea Posted June 2, 2018 Report Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) Eliza becomes head of tower security. Aka captain of the guard Edited June 2, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 2, 2018 Author Report Posted June 2, 2018 57 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: Hmmm.... How about Eliza is a woman from the town converted by the succubi, a female paladin (aka a police officer) lookinh for an out, while demona is evil and loving it and the hades/old overlord spy. She aids the old overlord out of revenge, and eliza helps fight back the succubi ajd is rewarded by acess to thr mana well of the tower, so she doesn't haven to kill anyone. Hmmmm...... i can see the appeal, buy like i said, variety helps. An all-sucubus harem ruins some of the uniquness, and is a terrible idea for a sorcerer anyway. He can support one easily, but all his girls as succubus would either drain the whole tower or glshow him having so much magic it kills and tension. So maybe only demona can PERMANANTLY change people, but eliza can temporarily change them. If we do the queen idun amnesiac at the tower angle, she could be said to be trying to cure her as foreshadowing for helping her daughters. I admit the succubi draining the Tower's supply of mana had not occurred to me... maybe one of the sorceresses knows how to brew mana potions? If I do go with the idea of the succubi being able to change women into succubi, still 50/50 on it... Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 What did you think of the Eliza/demona thing? Though you probably aren't that big a gargoyles fan. I just think the succubus queen would make a hood antagonist, but someone a sucvubus against their will ans trying to stop makes sense to join up Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 Plus mana potions seem more like a 'carry mana with you' solution. If it were tbat easy to just MAKE mana, the succubi wouldn't have a problem. I think i can make it all work though. Continuing the queen idun at the tower idea, (i'm suggesting this because setting storylines up in advance is a hood idea and it lets us give the queen a character when she doesn't have much of one) she could develop the potion while trying to cure eliza, and makes it buy drawing mana from the tower, which is more 'alive' than most mana and replicates itself to a degree. It's enough to sate Eliza's hunger for a while and cure anyone she turns into a succubi (she turns them to help defend thr castle), but since she was cursed by the queen, it's not enough to cure her. Eliza is much, MUCH stronger than ordinary soldiers but needs mana potions to not go crazy, so she csn only be called into combat for limited time before she has to retreat. I wouldn't make the potions an instamt solution though, as otherwise hiccup wouuld have a steadybstream of unlimited man potions at his command to use, which is boring, or would have to constanrlty feed magic to eliza and the succubi. I would say that Eliza probaboy can have a succubi guard to.command and defend the castle, but to change EVERY girl into a succubi takes away from what makes them individually interesting, and the characters need to br inyeresting yo carry the story. Plus, how would elsa, rapunzel, the elves or other magiv girls work as mana-starved succubi? Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Strange_idea said: What did you think of the Eliza/demona thing? Though you probably aren't that big a gargoyles fan. I just think the succubus queen would make a hood antagonist, but someone a sucvubus against their will ans trying to stop makes sense to join up 1 hour ago, Strange_idea said: Plus mana potions seem more like a 'carry mana with you' solution. If it were tbat easy to just MAKE mana, the succubi wouldn't have a problem. I think i can make it all work though. Continuing the queen idun at the tower idea, (i'm suggesting this because setting storylines up in advance is a hood idea and it lets us give the queen a character when she doesn't have much of one) she could develop the potion while trying to cure eliza, and makes it buy drawing mana from the tower, which is more 'alive' than most mana and replicates itself to a degree. It's enough to sate Eliza's hunger for a while and cure anyone she turns into a succubi (she turns them to help defend thr castle), but since she was cursed by the queen, it's not enough to cure her. Eliza is much, MUCH stronger than ordinary soldiers but needs mana potions to not go crazy, so she csn only be called into combat for limited time before she has to retreat. I wouldn't make the potions an instamt solution though, as otherwise hiccup wouuld have a steadybstream of unlimited man potions at his command to use, which is boring, or would have to constanrlty feed magic to eliza and the succubi. I would say that Eliza probaboy can have a succubi guard to.command and defend the castle, but to change EVERY girl into a succubi takes away from what makes them individually interesting, and the characters need to br inyeresting yo carry the story. Plus, how would elsa, rapunzel, the elves or other magiv girls work as mana-starved succubi? This is a possibility, and I am a fan of the old Gargoyles cartoon, its just that Demona's penchant for betraying people before they betray her had managed to slip my mind... Maybe the succubus queen could be more similar to Demona in the series pilot episode, wary of most humans, but able to work with them for the good of the clan?.. Changing topics again, but an new idea has occurred to me, what if when the previous Overlord tries to take over the Tower he traps the sorceresses in the form of animals, similar to Mirage being stuck as a house cat? Maleficent- a raven Ursula- a snake, since that's the closest land dwelling creature to her pet eels in The Little Mermaid Mim- a fox, since from what I remember of The Sword in the Stone, that is the smallest creature she turns into during the wizard duel Grimhilde-... I admit I can't think of an animal she has any real connection to, any suggestions? Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Jwsponky said: Changing topics again, but an new idea has occurred to me, what if when the previous Overlord tries to take over the Tower he traps the sorceresses in the form of animals, similar to Mirage being stuck as a house cat? Maleficent- a raven Ursula- a snake, since that's the closest land dwelling creature to her pet eels in The Little Mermaid Mim- a fox, since from what I remember of The Sword in the Stone, that is the smallest creature she turns into during the wizard duel Grimhilde-... I admit I can't think of an animal she has any real connection to, any suggestions? hmmm. grimhilde has a raven, but maleficent has that already….. what if grimhilde sides with the overlord out of frustration that hiccup isn’t quite her idea of an overlord, but sides with hiccup again because he doesn’t like being on the receiving end of the overlord tradition and becaseu turns her into an old crone to keep her in line. Of all the queens, grimhilde seems like the one who sticks closest to the line on overlord values and the most likely to side with the old one. The other three could be furious with her (well maleficent and ursula, no one knows what mim’s thinking) but agree to be merciful since she’s one of hiccup’s mothers and he probably loves her and he’s trying to be better…. so she gets turned into a raven by her friends until they feel they can trust her again instead of kiled. That way, she sticks to the animal theme and her disney canon, but there’s no confusion, plus it helps her stick out. and it’s a nice tribute to her ‘crone’ transformation. Ursula should be something aquatic, either an octopus or an eel in a bucket. or a rockfish (her original concept art was a rockfish-mermaid so that’s a nice in-joke) 1 hour ago, Jwsponky said: This is a possibility, and I am a fan of the old Gargoyles cartoon, its just that Demona's penchant for betraying people before they betray her had managed to slip my mind... Maybe the succubus queen could be more similar to Demona in the series pilot episode, wary of most humans, but able to work with them for the good of the clan?.. hmmm. you can do that, but attractiva as demona is, I just thought it ould be fun to have a woman who doesn;t join the harem , to keep them guessing. The idea is that Eliza becomes new succubus queen after she’s defeated and SHE joins the overlord.. more character variety that way. plus you could write a nice dynamic with the two hating each other, and demona taking the time to personally try to kill the ‘pretender’ each time she reappears and joins the arc villain. you could end her last appearance with her turned to human and given to Eliza to do with as she wishes. I think it’s be a nice sub-plot for one of the girls. My idea is that Eliza was an up-and coming paladin who was chosen as the ‘sacrifice’ to summon the succubi and consequently turned into one by the queen, Demona. Hiccup frees her, and she immediately starts attacking the succubi, including the queen. when hiccup kills sir William and banishes demona, Eliza is heartbroken that she doesn’t change back, so hiccup offers to take her with him and find a cure. Demona later shows up with the old overlord, where she tries to kill Eliza, and with hades, who has turned Eliza into a statue by draining all her mana, though his defeat restores her. Optionally, Demona later shows up fighting with with the empire, but wither way during her last appearance she’s turned human and turned over to Eliza as her personal slave. which is another thing, I wanted to ask you about. should some of the girls get mini-harems? i know you said there were assistants, but this would be a good way to streamline things and help the reader keep track. Astrid could have free pick of the vikings (ruffnut, girl toughnut, heather etc), Maleficent could have the elves and witches (aurora, elsa, rapunzel, possibly queen idun), mim could have the fairies (since she’s based on mythical queen mab), toothless could have dragons and maybe other monster girls, that sort of things. not sure about ursula and gimhilde. Eliza (if we go with my captain of the guard idea) could have the warriors. they all are hiccup’s harem, but his extra close girls are given higher rank as it were. Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 Actually astrid would probably get the warriors. Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 Hmm... I admit I had not considered the idea of the mistresses getting mistresses of their own, beyond passing remarks that Hiccup didn't mind if they took male lovers, it just hadn't happened yet, I just used to term 'assistant' because I was unable to come up with another way they could contribute, since for example princess Rapunzel couldn't be mistress of Corona if queen Arianna was still around. I had forgotten that Grimhilde had a pet raven as well... perhaps she and Maleficent' are both turned to ravens, and its a running gag that Hiccup can't tell them apart?.. And maybe Ursula's trapped form is a sea snake? Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jwsponky said: Hmm... I admit I had not considered the idea of the mistresses getting mistresses of their own, beyond passing remarks that Hiccup didn't mind if they took male lovers, it just hadn't happened yet, I just used to term 'assistant' because I was unable to come up with another way they could contribute, since for example princess Rapunzel couldn't be mistress of Corona if queen Arianna was still around. I figure that was the case,. to clarify, the mistresses would be hiccup’s other mistresses (and maybe some girls of note), but delegated into a hierarchy of sorts. They wouldn’t have male lovers i think, because they want that man to be hiccup. it allows more interaction, and proveds context tp better remember them all by. eg. it’s impossible to remember every superhero, but if you think, which ones are superman characters, baman characters etc it’s easier. discworld does something similar with it’s sub-serieses i was just using assistant to show their place in the harem, i.e elsa was in charge of the arendale branch, but she would be under…. not sure. given that hiccup isn’t deliberatly taking lovers from what you said, the sorceresses and lovers would be organising this. i confess, i’ve been thinking of astrid, toothless, and the sorceresses as his ‘queens’, and assuming that they would be encouraging and organising this. 12 minutes ago, Jwsponky said: Hmm... I admit I had not considered the idea of the mistresses getting mistresses of their own, beyond passing remarks that Hiccup didn't mind if they took male lovers, it just hadn't happened yet, I just used to term 'assistant' because I was unable to come up with another way they could contribute, since for example princess Rapunzel couldn't be mistress of Corona if queen Arianna was still around. I had forgotten that Grimhilde had a pet raven as well... perhaps she and Maleficent' are both turned to ravens, and its a running gag that Hiccup can't tell them apart?.. And maybe Ursula's trapped form is a sea snake? also works, i just saw an opportunity to go different character routes. For further funnies, Hiccup could have trouble until grimhilde acts indignant angry and scowls, since maleficent’s better composed….. so he makes annoying or agravating remarks to check “so i’m becoming a paladin” *SQUAWK* “just checking” … mirage would be LOVING this. probably threaten to eat them I have to ask, what did you think of my queen Idun idea? Edited June 3, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 You make a good point about the hierarchy, and I hadn't intended for the mistresses to take lovers, just for Hiccup to mention in passing that if they did he wouldn't mind, given his more or less accidental acquiring of a harem. I do admit you method of telling the two ravens apart is rather amusing. As for the Iduna, which is apparently what her name actually is, not sure how I missed the 'a', idea I must admit I'm neutral... though now I'm struck by the idea of the Tower Heart either 'jump starting' dormant powers or just outright giving Iduna lighting powers and Anna fire powers… And I've also been struck by the idea of young Hiccup in the prologue trying to give himself a pair of wings like Maleficent Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 i take it you saw the film and i love the wings idea. Toothless could show up as a dragon and give him a ride shortly afterwards when she hears. it’s be a nice bonding/young love moment and think of it this way, she can be the tower librarian and his magic tutor/maleficent’s handmaiden and be an actual doting mother figure. A bit of a nameless background figure and prop until she becomes important. Her awakening memories could be what brings them to the first kingdom to discover the empire. or sets them out towards it, where they run into ariel along the way. The tower awakening her powers could be what gives her back her memories. Anna with fire is good, but you could also make her ‘spring’ as opposes to elsa’s winter. fire works though. it would also make for some nice family bonding as elsa teaches them to control it and Iduna shares what she’s learned all these years. Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 The gods would be meg’s mistresses of course. while i’m on the subject, what did you think of witch-daughter aurora? Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: i take it you saw the film and i love the wings idea. Toothless could show up as a dragon and give him a ride shortly afterwards when she hears. it’s be a nice bonding/young love moment and think of it this way, she can be the tower librarian and his magic tutor/maleficent’s handmaiden and be an actual doting mother figure. A bit of a nameless background figure and prop until she becomes important. Her awakening memories could be what brings them to the first kingdom to discover the empire. or sets them out towards it, where they run into ariel along the way. The tower awakening her powers could be what gives her back her memories. Anna with fire is good, but you could also make her ‘spring’ as opposes to elsa’s winter. fire works though. it would also make for some nice family bonding as elsa teaches them to control it and Iduna shares what she’s learned all these years. I have not seen the movie as of yet, I tried to borrow my local library's copy, but couldn't find it myself, and the assistant librarian was on duty, who don't get me wrong, she is a nice lady... but not the brightest spark in the forge, so I didn't try asking her for help... The only reason I know she had a pair of bird wings in the film is due to pictures on the Disney wiki from the film… Another thought concerning Maleficent has occurred to me though, given the plan to make her a former resident of Pixie Hollow, what should her 'talent' be? Proceed with the Valka idea Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) given her dark fairy role, either she’s part of the natural process of night, or possibly rotting, or she could have a talent for dark magic. or nightmares, or dreams… actually dreams works really well, but everynoe was afraid of the ‘night’ fairy. I’m not too familiar with disney fairies, so are the talent’s usually a natural process? Hiccup does not know Valka is his mother, and it would probably be better that he didn;t before his first time. afterwards you can play it for awkwardness, but before the first time is a bit odd. it’s why i was suggesting the sorceresses use disguises for their times with him. so going by that, and the fact that she’s a viking runaway i think she could first show up as a prisoner of the dragon hunters, which introduces him to the concept of being a dragon rider (what i’ve been calling a dragon keeper) . He frees her when their not looking, and she escapes with most of their dragons. later, she shows up and helps him with the dragon-viking war, easing over any tensions he may have with toothless by telling her what he did for her, and helping him bring about a peaceful co-existence. The sorceresses or maybe mirage give her back some youth and vitality (enough that she’s up to it), which leads to her joining astrid and toothless in seducing hiccup. naturally the sorceresses tell her that he’s her son AFTERWARDS, so she’s very shaken and needs some time to think, so she goes of to establish her dragon sanctuary, but takes a crystal to open a tower-gate to the island. she and maleficent bond over raising hiccup, and maleficent winds up eventually convincing her just go with it and become a mistress if that’s what you want. This happens during the ‘epilouge’ type portion of that arc of the story. during the time hiccup and company make the dragon riders, she come back into the fold and helps train Arial combatants and attack dragons. Hiccup mostly knows her as the mysterious dragon rider. i’m uncertain whether he finds out. She likes astrid, and was probably the one to make the engagement, and REALLY approves of toothless, due to her obvious loyalty. Edited June 3, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 If astrid and toothless become hiccup’s queens, she’s their visir and first mistress Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 which reminds me, when were you thinking he would meet the dragon traders? I thought it was in the first game. which was part of my framing for the toothless thing. Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 you know i just realised, in my mental image amnesiac idunna is jester. the one hiccup practises spells ON, or does the fetch-and-carrying for four high and mighty queens. Hiccup always apologises and is clearly uncomfortable when they make him do it, but she brushes him odd and thanks her. it’s something i can see the sorceresses doing. Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 I think she and maleficent would be the better mothers (you’l understand when you see maleficent), and having a non-magic (at first) mother would be a well-hidden good influence on him) actually mal probably gave her the position after she showed up because she didn;t trust the others to be capable of the keeping-him-alive bits mothering. Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: which reminds me, when were you thinking he would meet the dragon traders? I thought it was in the first game. which was part of my framing for the toothless thing. My plan for that had been for Hiccup to encounter them in the prologue, like so… 1. An old Tower gate in the ship graveyard from the first RttE episode is accidentally activated, possibly by one of the giant eels that inhabit the area, with the eels possibly explained as the energies from the gate affecting their development 2. After exploring the area with the Netherghul, Hiccup gets the idea to turn the area into a shipyard, salvaging the wrecks for materials and looting the treasures Johan had stored there, thinking them merely cargo of the wrecks 3. Johan eventually returns to the area, either to take some of the stored treasure or add to it, and mentions he is the chief of the Hunters (the show doesn't ever mention if he is actually the tribe's chief and the Grimborns were commanders or if he's just a pirate who managed to hire the Hunters as muscle, I assume its the former), leading Hiccup to set up a contract with the Hunters to buy a majority or possibly all of their catch, with the shipyard and surrounding waters serving as the primary base for his dragon air force. Admittedly not sure if this happens before or after Hiccup meets Toothless... Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 Give me a minute, i have an idea jow this could tie into toothless. What did you think of valka? I mostly wrote this because she was on the list and assumed she wad one of those mistresses. It's okay if you don't want to. It's not my thing, i was trying to minimize the awkwardness of such a thing Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: Give me a minute, i have an idea jow this could tie into toothless. What did you think of valka? I mostly wrote this because she was on the list and assumed she wad one of those mistresses. It's okay if you don't want to. It's not my thing, i was trying to minimize the awkwardness of such a thing You make a good point about Valka being understandably awkward after learning she slept with her so, though now I'm struck by the idea of Hiccup feeling awkward about NOT feeling awkward about it, since when he thinks 'mother' Valka just isn't the one he pictures, I admit my plan for when she and Hiccup meet is after the conquest of the Archipelago when he hears tale of Drago Bludvist and preemptively attacks him, by happenstance doing so as Drago is either attacking the Sanctuary, or very recently has, and their sleeping together happens when Hiccup informs her of Stoick's death, either forgetting or not getting the chance to tell her his identity has Stoick's son, with it being something along the lines of 'grieving widow seeking comfort from a willing young man', whether it would be a one night stand once the truth comes out or something more regular I am unsure as of yet Edited June 3, 2018 by Jwsponky Quote
Strange_idea Posted June 3, 2018 Report Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) with valka, that works, but can i suggest a twist? you have her a jotaan’s prisoner like i suggested (he hasn;t seen her so he doesn;t know it’s his mother. or maybe he just hates her) and she meets hiccup bfore the viking conflict, so when she comes to attack the dragon bludvist, she recognises him and stops. Then they fight alongside each other. that way, it makes more sense that she’d ‘seek comfort’ from him as he’s something of an old friend, and someone she respects, not just a random messenger. so my idea of his meeting with jotaan is that it should happen in the prolouge, but AFTER he met hiccup. I think in this version, hiccup should grow up with toothless, with her being his only friend and someone he trusts. It’ll let you have a lot of character growth and be a good humanising factor, which is something a lot of these stories can lack. He’s suspicious of Jotaan at first, since toothless doesn;t like him and he doesn’t like the way he looks at toothless. Toothless is angry at irst (for what he assumes are humanitarian resons) but is much more impressed with him when he releases valka and she steals the dragons. or, possibly, he sneaks toothless the key and distracts jotaan so she can do it, and she tells valka what he did. i also came up with another idea for the ‘dragon women’ . want to hear it? it ties into toothless, maleficent and valka. it might explain what i’m suggesting with toothless Edited June 3, 2018 by Strange_idea Quote
Jwsponky Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Posted June 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said: with valka, that works, but can i suggest a twist? you have her a jotaan’s prisoner like i suggested (he hasn;t seen her so he doesn;t know it’s his mother. or maybe he just hates her) and she meets hiccup bfore the viking conflict, so when she comes to attack the dragon bludvist, she recognises him and stops. Then they fight alongside each other. that way, it makes more sense that she’d ‘seek comfort’ from him as he’s something of an old friend, and someone she respects, not just a random messenger. so my idea of his meeting with jotaan is that it should happen in the prolouge, but AFTER he met hiccup. I think in this version, hiccup should grow up with toothless, with her being his only friend and someone he trusts. It’ll let you have a lot of character growth and be a good humanising factor, which is something a lot of these stories can lack. He’s suspicious of Jotaan at first, since toothless doesn;t like him and he doesn’t like the way he looks at toothless. Toothless is angry at irst (for what he assumes are humanitarian resons) but is much more impressed with him when he releases valka and she steals the dragons. or, possibly, he sneaks toothless the key and distracts jotaan so she can do it, and she tells valka what he did. i also came up with another idea for the ‘dragon women’ . want to hear it? it ties into toothless, maleficent and valka This is an idea... And I admit the main reason I was unsure if Hiccup should employ the Dragon Hunters before meeting Toothless is down to the motive behind it… Before Toothless- Hiccup remembers his childhood on Berk and how dragons are capable of impressive destruction and wishes to use them as war beasts After Toothless- Hiccup knows dragons are sentient and wishes to save them from being slaughtered Proceed with the idea when ready Quote
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