holy/celestial warriors

[SirGeneralSir]

im looking for something from mythology about male warriors that are minions of a god.

an example would be like the Valkyries, i need a male counter part, origin doesn't matter.

[JayDee]

Well, going from the Valkyries you've got all the warriors they gathered up to fight for the gods at Ragnarok, the Einherjar.

Supposedly they got used for a few scraps before the end of time too.

[SirGeneralSir]

right, but does anyone have a male only warrior ...... cast? kind of with the same idea?

im working on a project thats kind of a LOTR and D&D ish kind of world, a faction of celestial beings exists and they have a number of ......classes?

Arch Angel (top guy male or female)

Angel (just below Arch)

Fairies (human sized)

Sprites ( Tinkerbell sized)

Pixie (a little bigger than Sprites)

Valkyries and ......... front line warriors of the celestial faction.

[BronxWench]

http://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/others/berserkers-and-other-shamanic-warriors/

[ChrissyQuinn]

Technically the Knights Templar from the crusades kind of fit the bill, They were holy warriors who were in their minds essentially minions of god and a holy army doing his bidding. But it's not mythological but it gets used in that sense in a lot of fantasy novels and settings.

Edited October 2, 2015 by ChrissyQuinn

[SirGeneralSir]

i wouldn't think of a berserker as being a celestial/holy ish type of warrior.

i guess im looking for something that's kind of the typical knight in shining armor on a mythical level?

I already have plans for Templars, Paladins and Crusaders.

I need more diversity, maybe some kind of celestial asian warriors?

[ChrissyQuinn]

berserkers believed they were granted their powers by the gods I think. To them it was more than just a bunch of naked guys high on mushrooms with axes (gotta love the vikings). I was going to suggest The Wild Hunt or Slough but they aren't really warriors more just a mass of creepy shit that will fuck you up. Sapkowski made the hunt warriors though in his witcher books. As for Eastern stuff you're not going to find that/probably have a tough time finding that. Most Eastern religions east of india are based around Buddism to a degree which means... more peaceful oriented stuff than western religion.

[ChrissyQuinn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong<--- from a novel and not religious based but you could probably use some of that.

[SirGeneralSir]

what about chinese and japanese gods and their minions/warriors? i know that both had gods of many different kinds, some were scary as fuck too.

in some ways almost like the greek and roman only more twisted (i mean that in a good way)

[BronxWench]

Berserkers were shamans as well - holy men - and infused with the power of their totems. They'd be the male counterpart, or as close as one could come, to the Valkyrie, who were minor goddesses.

The notion of celestial Asian warriors is non-existent outside anime, and wouldn't fit with the world you're building. LotR/D&D type lore is about as removed as one can get from Asian lore.

But you always have the trump card of any writer... make it up. Imagination is the key here.

[SirGeneralSir]

too true BW, i just thought i would first try and see what i could find out first.

I want to have the berserkers for the Orcs to fit in with their shaman, witch doctors and warlocks.

Templars, Paladins and Crusaders were going to be classes but also have different roles as mortals.

........ i guess an Arcon could work

[BronxWench]

Just because I need to pick nits a little, shamans would probably replace witch doctors, or at least that would be the traditional role.

And it's Archon, I believe...

[SirGeneralSir]

lol

as for the shaman and witch doctor, the DR would be more voodoo ish than the shaman, he would be more ...... native american ish?

i have 3 sects of Orc

Orc normal green skinned, well rounded in strength and magic - Shaman

Gamma Orc half breed with ogre strongest of them all, little magic abilities - Witch Doctor

Dred Orc half breed with demons slightly strong best magic ability - Warlock

[BronxWench]

Witch doctors are largely African, rather than Native American. Shamans have their roots in the steppes of Mongolia.

[SirGeneralSir]

that is true, but some of the tribal style is the same, hell even the aztec or mayans had people dressing up in the skins of animals for some of their rituals.

but i would say shaman would be more native american ish than the other two.

[BronxWench]

Just dressing in skins does NOT a shaman or witch doctor make.

Keep in mind that all shamans go through a near death experience, with some actually dying and coming back. This is absolutely essential to become a shaman.

A witch doctor, on the other hand, doesn't go through the same spirit journey. And voodoo is a whole other kettle of fish. You need to either invent something that fits, rather than try to force the square pegs into the round holes, or revise your basic premise to fit these concepts since they really don't work otherwise.

[SirGeneralSir]

well for the shaman, im thinking of something kind of like the Orc shaman from WarCraft 3 or World of Warcraft ish, it does need refinement because im just starting to touch on this part of the idea.

the Dr fits for the Gamma Orcs because its more brutal, not so much communing with spirits or anything, but more of making a deal and offering sacrifices or other nasty things to the dark spirits.

then is the Warlock ...... he uses demonic powers i'm not sure what more to say about him..... yet

[BronxWench]

I think my frustration here is a result of your asking for factual backup of what's largely a fictional concept. The Orc shamans from WarCraft 3 and WoW don't have any resemblance whatsoever to a real-life shaman, nor do the goblinoid witch doctors have any grounding in reality. Hence my frequent advise to you to make it up and stop looking for factual references for something when factual isn't what you want anyway. Just read the WoW Wiki instead and go from there to avoid getting sued.

[PervOtaku]

Your entire premise is off, because valkyries aren't warriors of the Norse gods, they are grim reapers for fallen human soldiers. I don't really recall any myths where god or the gods have an army of warriors. Such servents tend more to be messengers if anything. Most wars in the old myths where the gods are involved are proxy wars where each god choses a human side to represent them and helps their guys out in much smaller ways, or battles that are so big that only the gods themselves can fight in them.

The view of Norse valktries or Judeo-Christian angels as a army of heavenly warriors comes more from modern pop culture, which usually borrows names from old myths more than it does portray the myths faithfully.

[BronxWench]

Your entire premise is off, because valkyries aren't warriors of the Norse gods, they are grim reapers for fallen human soldiers. I don't really recall any myths where god or the gods have an army of warriors. Such servents tend more to be messengers if anything. Most wars in the old myths where the gods are involved are proxy wars where each god choses a human side to represent them and helps their guys out in much smaller ways, or battles that are so big that only the gods themselves can fight in them.

The view of Norse valktries or Judeo-Christian angels as a army of heavenly warriors comes more from modern pop culture, which usually borrows names from old myths more than it does portray the myths faithfully.

Yes, well, that argument probably won't work. I have a feeling this is going to be a paean to pop culture misconceptions at their finest. Or game culture misconceptions. I'm not even bothering to point out that "warlock" quite literally means "oathbreaker" and is NOT a male witch/magic user.

[ChrissyQuinn]

Yes, well, that argument probably won't work. I have a feeling this is going to be a paean to pop culture misconceptions at their finest. Or game culture misconceptions. I'm not even bothering to point out that "warlock" quite literally means "oathbreaker" and is NOT a male witch/magic user.

I get what you're saying, but the concept of Warlock as a male magic user isn't modern at all, that started in the Restoration Era. Also, considering that all witches were originally thought to have some sort of covenant with the devil or demons (See Malleus Maleficarum) it kind of makes sense how the word evolved to what it did.

I'm currently doing a little research for my shits and giggles story... so I currently am a wealth of what Christians (mostly medieval) thought of witches and how they referred to them.

Other than that I wholeheartedly agree with you, video games and pop culture have twisted certain non-judeo christian concepts to the point where it just does the myth/cultural concept a disservice most of the time. But as it is a work of fiction he could call a blob of goo that rises out of a lake once a year to devour peasants a Valkyrie and a flying unicorn that sets bad kings on fire with its prismatic horn a Shaman.

Also one more thing bothering me... THE MAYANS AND AZTECS WERE NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES....Omitting them from being "native american" is like saying the objibua (totally butchered that) aren't because they're in Canada as opposed to the USA.

I would suggest to SirGeneralSir if s/he's still reading this, that the best approach while trying to write something with a fantasy element would be to look a various cultures and their folklore in a certain time period and borrow one specific country/region's mythology and customs for each race you're working on rather than trying to stick everything in a blender. Gods or not, having Valkyries and something asian-y or eastern sounding for the celestial faction would just sound wrong in the head. Same with the voodoo and shaman thing. Even in warcraft Voodoo is what trolls do and Orcs deal with the elements, trolls I don't think even had shaman before World of Warcraft and then they carry the name more for coding purposes than lore. Like the Paladin and Sunwalker thing.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=warlock<-- double check source. (My history was fuzzy I almost said Jacobean Era... totally could have sworn it was somewhere in King James I's Demonology but I guess I was wrong)

[SirGeneralSir]

the reason im pulling from multi cultures, is because the setting im thinking of, is multicultural, many kingdoms etc.

think of it this way.

Zeus is fighting Chronos, who made an army of ....... bright pink blobs that are eating the worshipers of the gods,

one of the pink blobs eats ........ a cow off a viking long boat that belonged to a follower of Odin that was going to sacrifice it to his god (Odin)

so now Odin is pissed because he didnt get his cow, because even he needs a strong cup of coffee/tea in the morning, the blobs are eating the followers and in turn making the gods not so godly, so they cant fight Chronos and stop the blobs so they need an army of things they summon or what have you to take care of the mortal problem that pesters them too.

its not the actual story, just making a point.

Mayans and Aztecs are south americans up into mexico and Texas area.

I know what the origins of a Warlock are, they are just as magical as a Witch, Druid, Shaman, Witch Dr and the Tooth fairy.

I do intend to mix and match many cultures, European ones including vikings I can make fit, just like Japanese, Chinese, Korean or anyone else from Asian area.

NOW please keep in mind, I am only asking about these things because if i can not use it directly to fit my use, i can at least use it as reference to create a custom creature, thing or army.

I ask because unlike some people, I dont always remember everything off the bat, or know everything and wont pretend to.

I have been polite, friendly and generally nice but its starting to sound like i'm getting a little bit of hate here.

Yes, games and movies are playing a role in what im trying to design, but that doesnt mean my thing is going to be a copy of theirs.

So if you would, I do appreciate any information given, ideas or suggestions on what to consider, I thank you. however, if you are not interested in helping or anything, just leave me alone, I didnt poke you.

[DemonGoddess]

Mayans and Aztecs are south americans up into mexico and Texas area.

Actually, geographically they're in CENTRAL America, and culturally they're called MesoAmericans.

[ChrissyQuinn]

I know what the origins of a Warlock are, they are just as magical as a Witch, Druid, Shaman, Witch Dr and the Tooth fairy.

That is actually a very insensitive statement... but you probably don't realize that so I'm going to let it pass. But do keep in mind, there are still practitioners of non-judeo-christian religions. Like... Druids and Wiccans, even worshipers of Odin who might take offense to that statement above. So you're handling someone's religion here, of course people are going to get touchy.

I think the main concern people have here is that you're going to shit all over someone's religion in the name of fiction, which is a legitimate concern. (i know this is contrary to my who cares he's writing fiction statement, but admittedly I was a few glasses into the evening, and oh the flippant shit I say when tipsy.)

I would suggest picking up some of the viking sagas or early Irish and Welsh texts. You can get translations of a few of them on Amazon for free. And visit your local library.If you think about the most successful author of what I call super fantasy (elves, orcs, goblins etc.) it's Tolkien and the guy was a medievalist who borrowed heavily from Viking sagas (There is literally a saga about a guy named Frodi who has to destroy a ring),

Also, I think it might be more impactful if you just have one set of gods you focus on and write a story about infighting among them. It would also mean less research for you, (compelling fantasy is research).

[BronxWench]

SGS, you've been around long enough to know that I'm pagan, and have been all my life. So yes, treating my beliefs cavalierly will put my back up. Consider it as having poked me.

And warlocks are not magical, nor are witches, druids, shamans or witch doctors. I'll disregard the flippancy of the tooth fairy, in the spirit of being helpful. Witches practice magic. Witch doctors practice magic to some extent. Druids and shamans do not practice magic. They are more akin to priests and/or oracles. Warlocks are not a magical class in the real world, WoW notwithstanding. But none of them are magical creatures, unlike the fey, who are magical creatures.

You can choose to disregard the real-world definitions of these roles, but in that case, you should not come here and ask for assistance with researching these things. All you do is frustrate those of us for whom these things have significance. Instead, consult the WoW Wiki.