Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi

Myths and Facts of Homosexual Relationships

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Now that's a good site to visit - he's not updating it any more - but if you go to the "What has he done for you lately" link he has a link to his newest page which is being updated. I now have all kinds of fun ideas (and it's good to know that I was doing quite a few things right in my fics).

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Articles from the site that relate to this thread:

Girly Men: This straight female doesn't understand why all gay subs have to be effeminate.

YAOI SEX: Not an easy read but makes some valid points.

Yaoi Rant of 2006: Trying to figure out the difference between M/M and yaoi.

Lesbians...where the heck are the fics? Good question. M/M dominates in writing and F/F dominates in visuals.

Musings On A Yaoi Fanboy: Because straight men can like yaoi without being closeted.

My stand on yaoi. The first chapter doesn't say much. The second chapter actually addresses a myth about people who don't like yaoi.

Truce: This article attempts to tackle and debunk some myths about yaoi.

Ten Things I Hate About Yaoi (Fandom): This author is actually a yaoi fan but she's fed-up with the stereotypes found in fiction and she explains by listing each stereotype then complaining.

Gay Sex Myths: A Guide for Slash Writers: Title says it all.

Writing Homosexual Erotica is actually the second chapter in an article. Near the end, certain myths about gay people are addressed.

I'm still running category checks for DA, so I'll go to sleep now and come back with something from my own brain once I finish my work.

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Can I ask instead of supplying myth/demyth...

Transvestites and people who have sex with them (male or female): What is usually their sexual orientation?

I am married to a transvestite male.

I would describe my husband as being bisexual with a preference for women and a generally hetero lifestyle. He enjoys fantasizing about men and has had some m/m experience. But, in terms of ongoing relationships, he prefers women.

He dresses in women's clothing only in private or in anonymous settings. It is an intense sexual turn on for him. It turns me on only in the sense that I enjoy seeing him so into things. For me it is either neutral or a slight turn off depending on the situtation, how much into drag he's gone, and my mood at the time.

I dis-like the term "bi-curious" but it probably does actually describe my own sexual orientation. Almost all my real life experiences have been hetero. I do have sexual feelings and thoughts for other women, but am more likely to fantasize about men. I have flirted with women on a few occasions and have subbed for a female dominant in non-sexual play. Unfortunately, I have never had an opportunity to explore those feelings in real life, as I haven't found anyone with whom attraction and opportunity were mutual.

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Oh! This'll be incredibly helpful - not read it properly yet but certainly will do! I've got a lesbian character and have half-got into her head, but need a little more, so thank you, thank you, thank you!

EDIT:

Myth: If you can write M/M or F/F relations then you must have dabbled in it at some point.

Truth: Just because I've done my research, talk to people, and write about M/M or F/F doesn't mean I've dallied.  I'm female - and I love cock.  That's not to say I'm not curious about the opposite side of the coin, it just means that I haven't found anyone I found to be attractive to try it out with.

Thank you for including this one! It's - if anything - the other way around for me. My other half and I have talked about having a threesome with another woman and I'm experimenting with the idea of being orientated toward women (bi or gay regardless) in my fics. I've still got no idea whether our idea will ever come to fruition, though. It doesn't have to either - we're happy, you know?

And the broad spectrum of humankind is interesting enough that I'm enjoying exploring the concept of being gay in all its expressions. It doesn't have to mean I want to actually do it.

Myth:Gay guys don't like women and find them repulsive.

Fact: It's prefectly resonable for a gay man to flirt with and have a close relationship with a woman that might even border on platonic.

Note to moderator: I know I'm multiple-posting, but I'm reading through this thread thoroughly and will amalgamate them in just a mo. Sorry for the inconvenience!

This one's spot on, too - I used to know this gay guy called Justin, and he used to love my tits!

Myth Women become lesbians because they were raped or had some sort of bad experience with men.

Truth Women become lesbians because they decide that they like the idea of fucking women more. Not necessarily because of an inborn hatred of men.

Absolutely. While I don't doubt there is the occasional woman out there who's been treated so badly she's driven into the arms of another woman, it's not the norm.

And any resentment towards men exhibited by lesbians may be more to do with the incessant 'will you have sex with my girlfriend/can I watch you and your girlfriend?' type questions. Wouldn't you get fed up, too?

Edited by Satine

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I have to say I have learned a lot about the myths and facts about gay relationships.

Now, my slash stories will be more realistic in nature.

Thanks for all the links, I love them!

Beth

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Guest Rosemarius

Better ones are already taken...but I still have a few ones for you:

Myth 1: Gay men can only have sex by anal intercourse

Truth Not true at all. There are many ways to have sex without the anal (Blowjobs are an example). Another example is frottage, which is usually very underestimated in fictions.

Myth 2: The anal passage is very dirty and gay men always get their dicks covered with poo (this is never seen in fictions but is a common stereotype)

Truth Not always true: unless you've just taken a crap, or you're about to, the rectal passage is actually rather clean.

Mith 3: Men always bleed the fist time they're penetrated.

Truth Oh, come on...unless the other one has a very big dick or use very little care, that's not likely

Mith 4: (For rape scenes) if a man gets raped, he'll have a copious menstruation-like bleeding.

Truth It's not that easy to damage the rectal passage so much that it bleeds, unless the victim is a kid. (I would know that because once I was younger and...err...experimenting...I got cut in there, but I only got a few drops on my hands, no massive bleeding)

Mith 5 butt sex is always excrucially painful

TruthNot really, unless you get raped or your boyfriend has a giant cock.

Mith 6 (NOTE: this also applies to non-homosexual couples) Men can keep fucking for hours without getting limp, and after they come their penis stays hard

Truth Dog dammit!!!NO!!! There is a thing called refractory period, you know? Well, it's something that causes the human penis to become flaccid after an ejaculation. And it takes some time to get it hard again. And no, I don't mean like 5 seconds. It could last like, from 15 minutes to several hours.

that's all for now. If something more comes in mind, I'll add it

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Hmmm I've got a few things to say here. First, I don't get into yaoi, I read a fair bit of it when I was trying to figure out what it was, and I liked it but it isn't something I would seek out again and again. What I did gather from research and reading though, is that unlike slash, Yaoi seems to follow a formula, there are certain requirements for Yaoi to actually be classed as Yaoi, i.e. a long haired man who beats the crap out of a smaller short haired male because that will make him fall in love with him blink.gif

Like most people I know that in real life that isnt necessarily the case, but still, writing Yaoi seems to be an artform that can be learned and developed by following a process or formula much like you would have to to learn how to grow bonsai trees or write an academic essay and etc. So having come to realised that, I can appreciate Yaoi as an expression of art, it's just not the kind of art that I seek out personally.

Also, I've noticed that alot of people have been saying that there is no top or bottom in a relationship. I haven't actually researched this but I do have a friend who is a sexual psychologist and according to him, every relationship - hetro, gay or otherwise- has a top and a bottom, rather, there is always one partner who is more dominant than the other.

It's not to say that the less dominant partner is weak or that the dominant one is strong, they can still be equals but they do have very different roles in the dynamics of their relationship and for the most part, there is definitely a top and a bottom and what's more, it's reversable and interchangable, so for eg, one might have the say on the couple's finances, the other might have the say on where they live, or whose job will benefit them as a couple the most etc etc etc. In regards to gay men, it might even extend to that one parner might want to take it when he usually gives it, and visa versa. But in all relationships...unless one partner has two penises, there will always be a top and a bottom and for a relationship to be successful, there has to be one who will give in more often and take it...or may actually prefer to take it, or give it...now this is getting confusing ... but anyway, it's like day and night, I think it's inescapable that there has to be a top and a bottom, at least, in a relationship that is built to last.

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Reading slash, it is obvious that many people who are writing slash have never actually participated in the acts they describe, especially anal sex. So, because I really have nothing better to do this morning, I'll poke a few holes, figuratively speaking. poke.gif Please forgive me if I'm covering something someone else has said.

1. Myth: Anal sex always hurts and causes bleeding.

--Um...Come on. If it was that unpleasant, why would people do it at all? Obviously, it feels good to many people (yes, I have and I like it!) Lubrication, patience on the part of the "top" and relaxation on the part of the "bottom" make things go smoothly. Going too fast or skipping the lube can be unpleasant...very. Small tears in the skin sometimes happen, but they don't bleed much and are usually caused by not enough lube or going too fast.

2. Myth: Condoms aren't needed if the characters are in a committed relationship.

--STD's aside...Condoms help quite a bit. There is bacteria in the rectum that could cause plain old normal infections for the "top" if there is a break in the skin somewhere or it might possibly work its way up the urethra. That is why women are always told to "wipe from front to back" after using the toilet. Also, condoms decrease the amount of friction to the "bottom," even more so if they are lubricated, which I personally recommend. Condoms are also great for keeping insertable toys clean. devil.gif

3. Myth: (Flip side of #1) No preparation or lubrication is needed and the characters can go at it all night. blink.gif No...How much preparation or lube is needed varies a lot, and I have heard that some veterans can go with no prep or lube whatsoever...But, I suspect some boasting is involved. There is no natural lubrication there, so things are going to chafe, eventually. Unless the characters are super human or nonhuman, they are going to need rest periods and repeated applications of lube.

By the way -- men do sometimes stay hard after ejaculation and can go a second time without a rest period. But, it's not something that you can expect or count on. If you start again right away, it will probably take quite a bit longer for him to reach orgasm than the first time, or he may not be able to reach it at all. Continued stimulation can help encourage this, but some men find being stimulated directly after orgasm too intense and won't go for it. (Bummer!)

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Guest Rosemarius
MYTH: All gay men have AIDS.

FACT: ...WHAT? Folks, if all gay men had AIDS, EVERYONE would have AIDS. COME ON! While, yes, it's shown to be most prevalent in the gay community, it should also be noted that half of all people who have AIDS are WOMEN.

This is true, however it's something I've never seen in fanfictions. Often the protagonists just fuck each other senselessy with no protection at all, even if they don't know each other well, and miracolously they never get any kind of STD.

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As far as the top and bottom issue, that may just the writer's preference for some sort of power exchange in the relationship rather than an expressed stereotype about homosexual relationships....you never know what people are thinking til you talk to them. But most of your list I totally agree with.

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The following myths are brought to you by: My little brother ^^; who hates the fact I'm bi.

Myth: People who write or read Yaoi/Yuri can turn gay if they were straight to begin with

Truth: This is not true, I know for a fact that a lot of people are straight and write yaoi and or yuri stuff and are still straight. Just cause they write it doesn't mean they will eventually fall in love with it and demand to turn gay/lesbian just because they've written a lot of those kinds of stories.

Myth: People who are bi are actually fully gay or fully lesbian.

Truth: Not true. I'm bi and I like both guys and girls. I perfer guys more so, but I still like girls. It also doesn't mean that they say they are bi just to hide the fact they are gay and/or lesbian.

Myth: All gay people are going to hell because it says so in the Bible.

Truth: *I know...I opened a can of worms but my brother tells me this all the time ^^; *

This is not true. The Bible does have a few verses that say its wrong; but the Bible does also have times where one line might say one thing and later have something that is the complete opposite of what was stated earlier....so yeah ^^; that's what I say about that haha.

(EDITED)

Myth: All gay guys know about fashion, hair products, ect.

Truth: That is not always the case. For instance, today I made this mistake by asking one of our gay employees if he happened to know if Damion Christofer *a hair care company* and TG-John Freiddia were run by the same company. He did not know the answer; meaning that not all gay people know that stuff ^^; making me feel bad haha.

Edited by KuwaLover

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By the way -- men do sometimes stay hard after ejaculation and can go a second time without a rest period. But, it's not something that you can expect or count on. If you start again right away, it will probably take quite a bit longer for him to reach orgasm than the first time, or he may not be able to reach it at all. Continued stimulation can help encourage this, but some men find being stimulated directly after orgasm too intense and won't go for it. (Bummer!)

Just wanted to add my two cents to this...

That's not exactly the most comfortable feeling, trying to go a second time while still hard. It actually begins to get painful, not that it's too 'intense', and I would recommend that you not ask your man to try that, gay or straight. Just give him fifteen minutes or so and he should be able to go again. (Depending on the guy.)

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Myth: Lesbians have short hair. :rolleyes:

I don't see that so much in fanfic, because there's so little of it, but... aha. ahahaa. Not most of the ones I know.

Myth: Lesbians are butch or have fixed dom/sub roles.

I've never met a bona-fide fem. I've only met one or two honest-to-gosh butches. And I went to a women's college where there was a very out queer community. The last two generations of lesbians have basically chucked gender and sexual role differentiation out the window, as far as I can see.

Corollary to a myth posted above: All people who write het porn are het.

Um, no. Surprise!

Myth: Women squirt gobs of "juice" when they orgasm.

In my limited experience of four including me, no. Maybe a little more moisture at that point, but usually they're already wet, and then they're... wet.

Myth (mostly in porn movies): Lesbians have long, painted nails.

Ow. Nope -- if you ever see a woman with all the fingernails on one hand kept short, there's a good chance she's either lesbian or a guitar player.

Myth: Lesbian sex always involves penetration.

Actually no. I know someone who doesn't like it.

Myth: All women are turned on by having their breasts touched.

Actually, no. Again, I know someone who dislikes it, and apparently someone forgot to connect up my nerve endings in that area, 'cause I really can't tell.

Myth: All lesbians are young women learning about their sexual identities.

Yep, most started out that way, but... gray hair, people. It happens. My relationship lasted 13 years, and... here's a photo of a bona-fide lesbian couple. Are they not ADORABLE? That's one of my professors and her ever-so-cool partner of many years.

Also of course there's the amusing convention in porn that women never have periods (apparently), and at any rate that they wouldn't have sex during their periods. I fondly remember a pixie-ish dyke at my college commenting brightly, "That's the best time!"

And can I just say "amen" to the "bis are not promiscuous" comments above?

Much to the consternation of the person who's been trying to get me to be more than a friend for a year... nope.

Edited by Helluin

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Ah, I've got one I dont' think I've seen here yet. This applies to hetero and non-hetero relationships.

Myth: A dominant man is always experienced.

Fact: No. That's just not true, it could be his first time and he could be dominant. In fact, I'm tired of reading stories that have a male dominant role, and he seems to know exactly what he's doing, then he ends up saying something like "It was my first time." after they're done.

Myth: Women are always submissive their first time. (I guess this might work for lesbian relationships.)

Fact: No, some prefer to take the dominant role, and are even more comfortable with it, since they can go at their own pace.

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Myth: Women are always submissive their first time. (I guess this might work for lesbian relationships.)

It's not more likely for lesbian relationships... see my comments above. If anything, a lot of lesbian women are trying to get away from the "sexual roles" straitjacket (pun intended). For all lesbians, active/passive roles aren't gender-related, and for many lesbians, such roles are a matter of invented roleplaying akin to, "let's pretend I'm the pizza delivery girl..." or just plain irrelevant.

I've had one "first time" and was lucky enough to be the first for three wonderful women. Dom/sub didn't enter the equation for any of those experiences. In all of them, we were experimenting mutually with what felt good.

I do know one couple that plays dom/sub sometimes, but they don't always keep the same roles. It's a game. One can have bondage and/or D/S games without one person being dominant... it often just varies by who's in what mood on a given night. Often, couples take turns.

I tend to think of lesbian sex as a mutual process, rather than a dom/sub dynamic.

Edited by Helluin

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Well I wasn't saying that they would necessarily have dominant and submissive roles, mainly that in a lot of stories I read, there's always one person who's 'experienced' and a 'virgin'. The virgin normally being a woman (Or for yuri or f/f stories, it's the younger one most often.) and she's always.. Always submissive, in a sense where she just lays back and acts shy the entire time. It's just a myth it seems, that the 'first timer' will just lay back and let the other person please her.

And it's the exact opposite with male 'first timers' in stories I've read, they always seem to be given a dominant role, and almost always know what they're doing. I would like to see more realistic stories, I guess is why I was pointing both of those out. The male dominance in hetero stories is in about 9/10 that I read, and back when I used to read yaoi, yuri, m/m or f/f stories (Before I got bored of them.) it was the same damned thing every time, the younger one who's either experimenting or is with his/her first partner, is always just laying there.

Hell, to go with the 'top and bottom' thing that it's most male/male stories... You can be on top and be submissive, so... Well I don't know where I was going with this sentence, but I'm at an extreme lack of tea at the moment.

Edited by DarkInuLord

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Can I ask instead of supplying myth/demyth...

Transvestites and people who have sex with them (male or female): What is usually their sexual orientation?

There is a term called tranny chaser for people that like (male) crossdresser and it was/is mostly used in relation to prostitution – if I remember correctly. You can look it up under Wikipedia (read it with a grant of salt). Enter the phrase into google and you get 32.000 hits :(

However, I would use the term with care, since there are transsexual people out there that believe only freaks could desire someone explicitly because of the reason that they are neither male nor female.

Now femmes that do desire a (male identified) butch or a transgender person often use "queer" to describe their sexual orientation.

Myth: Lesbians have short hair. ><

I don't see that so much in fanfic, because there's so little of it, but... aha. ahahaa. Not most of the ones I know.

*laughing* granted, it has changed but I do remember the times when there were far more lesbians with short hair.

But that being said; if the hair is too long and you appear on a women's only party… *rolling eyes*

Myth: Lesbian sex always involves penetration.

Actually no. I know someone who doesn't like it.

*shock* lesbians do penetrate? I don't know but that might be a culture difference, because in Germany it's rather:

Myth: Lesbians never penetrate.

Truth: They do, nuff said B)

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I just fumbled over something else but it's not strictly for lesbians:

Myth: all women have multiple orgasms

Truth: you wish ;)

And what is that rumour about two people involved have to orgasm at the same time for it to be perfect?

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I like this topic. There are lots of myths out there aren't there? There are a lot of ignorant people out there that think since I'm bi I'm a sex machine. While I do have a very high sex drive, I don't think my orientation has anything to do with it. And people are either shocked or think I'm lying when I say I haven't had hot sex with my gay friends. For some reason people seem to think that two gay men in a room together should just naturally start fucking like wild animals on the livingroom floor.

And I hate it when people ask me for fashion or decarating tips. Do they know me? Right now I'm wearing blue pajama pants and a whilte sweatshirt with a ketchup stain on it. I had a cheeseburger and fries for lunch. Oh yea, I know so much about fasion and fine dining.

I once new a guy that was the very definition of a "flamer". He made me bang my head off of tables. I have femine qualities and masculine qualities both. But neither of us are feminine. We don't have dom/sub roles. I'm mostly the submissive one, but I get dominant streaks.

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I like this topic. There are lots of myths out there aren't there? There are a lot of ignorant people out there that think since I'm bi I'm a sex machine. While I do have a very high sex drive, I don't think my orientation has anything to do with it. And people are either shocked or think I'm lying when I say I haven't had hot sex with my gay friends. For some reason people seem to think that two gay men in a room together should just naturally start fucking like wild animals on the livingroom floor.

you just ruined my fantasy that if I would be a gay man I would have sex all the time. Shame on you! jk ;)

And I hate it when people ask me for fashion or decarating tips. Do they know me? Right now I'm wearing blue pajama pants and a whilte sweatshirt with a ketchup stain on it. I had a cheeseburger and fries for lunch. Oh yea, I know so much about fasion and fine dining.

;)

That's like:

Myth: all lesbians love beer, soccer and drive a Harley

Truth: er- nope *pushing beer away with a disgusted face and turning [nonexcisting] TV off* (okay, I'd like to have the Harley though)

I have another one (I hope it's not here already and I just forgot it):

Myth: all women are able to orgasm sorely from being penetrated

Truth: some don't and need to have their clit stimulated as well

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Considering that YAOI is specifically a style where men act overly effeminate and are constrained to the same types of cliches as heterosexual relationships, yeah.

Which leads me to...

MYTH: Slash and YAOI are the same thing!

FACT: No, no they're not. There's a distinct difference. While they're both slash, they're not both YAOI. YAOI, as I just said, is a type of slash, rather then a catch-all term. YAOI is a style of fiction and graphic novels that first appeared in Japan written by and for women, meaning it's basically bound down by the same rules and cliches of dime store HET romance novels, but both of the characters are men, and at least one of them is overly femme.

I must be really old-school because this isn't true. Yaoi is the anime catch-all term for male/male relationships. It includes shounen-ai, shotakon, non-con, anything with m/m sex. Shounen-ai is specifically the sweeter side of things, like kissing, holding hands, and WAFF stuff; if clothes come off, it becomes yaoi. Yaoi stands for Yami nashi, Ochi nashi, Imi nashi = without climax, without resolution, without meaning. The unfortunate collection of cliched romance stories with defined roles is due to the writers generally being 14 year old girls.

As far as I ever knew (cause apparently this has changed) slash is any kind of a pairing fic. It's specifically a shipping fic, even if it's rape because you are slashing two characters; i.e. Hermione/Snape. Slash could be m/m, f/f, m/f, or f/m. Like yaoi, the order is important because like it or not, there is always a leader in a relationship. It can switch off constantly and the degree of who is running the show can be very slight. The best relationships are the ones where is doesn't feel like one is dominate or submissive, but your other half is complimentary to your weaker areas. Even then, what someone desires in bed can be comepletely different than way s/he is like outside the bedroom. If I find the name of the transgender study that I've read I'll post it. To sum up, the Japanese display of imposing heterosexual gender roles to a same-sex couple seems to be a societal compulsion to be "normal". (National motto: The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.)

Anywho. Slash today seems to be defined as m/m since people use labels like femslash and hetslash. Yaoi is specifically anime m/m, but it isn't just the dime-store romance novels.

To add to the collection...

MYTH: Gays have a lisp.

Truth: Homosexuality does not require a speech impediment. It was a fad that has thankfully faded along with that limp wrist movement.

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Myth: sex, and particularly the first time, is always mind-blowing and absolutely wonderful, especially when people are insanely in love with each other;

Truth: ability to achieve and give sexual satisfaction is something people learn; usually sex gets better and more fulfilling when they "train" it :(

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