this site's on fire!

[Aysha c.c.]

You know, as a 100% heterosexual man I have to wonder if you ladies of aff.net are aware of how much this site flames. Please, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay people what so ever. My problem is with having (gay) flashed endlessly in my face the hole time I'm on the site.

I sincerely believe that everyone has the right to live the life they want. I do however have to say that having to see the omnipresent gay adds and read through the summaries of 5 gay stories before I find 1 M/F story, literally and I mean literally makes me nauseous, and I have to wonder if the site losses a lot of potential straight male readers because of how hot the flames are coming off the site.

I'm not saying I begrudge anyone their gay, I just wish there was a way for me to avoid it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without having to avoid the site altogether because I really love this place.

Okay, that's my rant, hope I didn't offend anyone, this is just how I feel.

[BronxWench]

I can tell you, as an author on the site, it's what "sells." My het work gets FAR less attention than my slash, and given that I don't write in anime-based fandoms, Twilight, or Harry Potter (eg, 90% of the readership base), it's very evident.

I'm not at all offended, but I can also say that statistically, in the romance ebook genre, it's slash that sells, be it M/M or F/F. And it's largely the influence of anime and manga based fandoms, with the emphasis on yaoi and yuri, that has made that trend take off. Add to that the preponderance of female writers on the site, and there you have it. We like to fantasize about two men having at it, just like many men find two women making love arousing. Think of it as a perfect storm.

As far as the advertisers, if you know of any straight publishers willing to buy some banners here, bring 'em on! We LOVE advertisers.

[Kurahieiritr]

I can tell you, as an author on the site, it's what "sells." My het work gets FAR less attention than my slash, and given that I don't write in anime-based fandoms, Twilight, or Harry Potter (eg, 90% of the readership base), it's very evident.

I'm not at all offended, but I can also say that statistically, in the romance ebook genre, it's slash that sells, be it M/M or F/F. And it's largely the influence of anime and manga based fandoms, with the emphasis on yaoi and yuri, that has made that trend take off. Add to that the preponderance of female writers on the site, and there you have it. We like to fantasize about two men having at it, just like many men find two women making love arousing. Think of it as a perfect storm.

As far as the advertisers, if you know of any straight publishers willing to buy some banners here, bring 'em on! We LOVE advertisers.

How very true, Bronx. All of my friends in the publishing industry told me to start focusing on writing Yaoi or Slash stories since they are the ones that do sell. I have been training to completely change genres to survive as a small fry writer at all.

With the current purchase trends and demand being so strong for gay erotica, the only way to survive at all within the industry is to write and sell gay or lesbian stories. Men buy girl on girl, and the female readership, which is the much larger purchasing base, for slash erotica is through the roof with no end in sight. The Hetero scene is almost non existent at the moment within the modern publishing world. Sorry , Aysha, but the reality is that gay or lesbian based fiction are all that sell for the moment, or I would not be writing it to learn the best techniques of the trade.

[Aysha c.c.]

I get what you are saying, I love a good f/f, myself, and I'm writing my first f/f scene even in TransPrime. I'm simply saying, I wish the site had a filtering system so I can click +FF -Rape +FM -MM, and presto I get what I want and nothing I don't.

[RogueMudblood]

The search engine will be upgraded. Right now, if the coder were to implement it, it would break the code and crash the site. That's why we haven't done that. Once she has found the issue and 'fixed' it, then it can be added in.

I don't know what exactly it will allow, but I do know it's supposed to be far more flexible than what we have now.

[Aysha c.c.]

Thanks for letting me know, RM, at least I have something to look forward too.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Aysha c.c.

[BronxWench]

How very true, Bronx. All of my friends in the publishing industry told me to start focusing on writing Yaoi or Slash stories since they are the ones that do sell. I have been training to completely change genres to survive as a small fry writer at all.

With the current purchase trends and demand being so strong for gay erotica, the only way to survive at all within the industry is to write and sell gay or lesbian stories. Men buy girl on girl, and the female readership, which is the much larger purchasing base, for slash erotica is through the roof with no end in sight. The Hetero scene is almost non existent at the moment within the modern publishing world. Sorry , Aysha, but the reality is that gay or lesbian based fiction are all that sell for the moment, or I would not be writing it to learn the best techniques of the trade.

My very first sale (coming out soon) is a slash story, and I have three more in the works. I'll write what sells. As Arlo Guthrie said, "I'm not proud. Or tired."

[Kurahieiritr]

My very first sale (coming out soon) is a slash story, and I have three more in the works. I'll write what sells. As Arlo Guthrie said, "I'm not proud. Or tired."

Very true that you do have to write what sells to break even eventually. I have learned to have the same theory since I stopped editing for the micro publishing industry. I may ignore some of the rules when writing my fan fiction, but I do know that my editor training comes out hard core when I work on an original story I started because slash is all that is selling. Whether "Wanted" ever gets to see the light of day as a fic here is debatable for the moment. Guess we shall see once I get to the point I am content with my own personal driven evisceration before sending it through email to a pal or two for feedback. Still, such is some time in the future because the tale is nowhere near complete at the moment.

[GeorgeGlass]

Honestly, I post my stories on AFF and other sites BECAUSE they're not marketable. Nobody (nobody in their right mind, anyway) is going to pay me to write PHINEAS AND FERB porn, or even the furry stories I post on Hentai Foundry and Inkbunny. If I thought anybody would buy such things, maybe I'd slap a price tag on them.

Having had a sort of "previous life" as a fanfic writer in a different fandom years ago, I just accept the fact that there is going to be a ton of slash wherever you find fanfic. Nature of the beast, and all that.

[Kurahieiritr]

Honestly, I post my stories on AFF and other sites BECAUSE they're not marketable. Nobody (nobody in their right mind, anyway) is going to pay me to write PHINEAS AND FERB porn, or even the furry stories I post on Hentai Foundry and Inkbunny. If I thought anybody would buy such things, maybe I'd slap a price tag on them.

Having had a sort of "previous life" as a fanfic writer in a different fandom years ago, I just accept the fact that there is going to be a ton of slash wherever you find fanfic. Nature of the beast, and all that.

Chuckles as I read your thoughts about the topic. The majority of writers are in fact only interested in writing as a hobby, which is perfectly fine. However, a lot of the people writing fan fiction, or even original tales to share on this site ultimately do have dreams of becoming published writers who get paid for their energy and efforts. The ones who are serious about practicing genuine writing skills to hone talent may even get to the point of seeing a book proposal. However, with that getting said, the trends lean heavily toward slash tales because of the popularity of said stories. In a world mad with stereotyping females into a set molded shell that moves like robot dolls in the media world, it is hard to avoid.

I can see potentials in most stories if one writes an original specific furry to potentially get a market for your writing also due to the heavy emphasis upon sex sells in the current Print media industry. E-book companies are buying ever stranger material so long as it includes sex of some kind. With an Ivy League college recently getting a lot of press coverage over hosting a seminar about tolerance for bestiality practitioners, who knows? Perhaps in a couple more years your work, outside of a known copyrighted fandom, could even become a published work if you study the structuring of language and revise it into a jewel.

[GeorgeGlass]

Chuckles as I read your thoughts about the topic. The majority of writers are in fact only interested in writing as a hobby, which is perfectly fine. However, a lot of the people writing fan fiction, or even original tales to share on this site ultimately do have dreams of becoming published writers who get paid for their energy and efforts.

I'm an editor and occasional writer (not of fiction) in my RL job, so I take the study and use of language very seriously. I just enjoy using my skills for evi- I mean, to produce niche erotica in my spare time.

The ones who are serious about practicing genuine writing skills to hone talent may even get to the point of seeing a book proposal. However, with that getting said, the trends lean heavily toward slash tales because of the popularity of said stories. In a world mad with stereotyping females into a set molded shell that moves like robot dolls in the media world, it is hard to avoid.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point about how the treatment of women in the media leads to slash--if that is indeed your point.

I can see potentials in most stories if one writes an original specific furry to potentially get a market for your writing also due to the heavy emphasis upon sex sells in the current Print media industry. E-book companies are buying ever stranger material so long as it includes sex of some kind. With an Ivy League college recently getting a lot of press coverage over hosting a seminar about tolerance for bestiality practitioners, who knows? Perhaps in a couple more years your work, outside of a known copyrighted fandom, could even become a published work if you study the structuring of language and revise it into a jewel.

Interesting point about e-book companies. I was listening to a radio program the other day on which someone opined that e-readers have created a market for a lot of genres and formats (eg, novellas) that have little or no commercial appeal in the print market. Maybe I'll look into that, when I'm not too busy creating smut just for fun.

[Kurahieiritr]

The point of stereotyping females by the mass media is about the ability to write well rounded female characters based upon personality strengths. Such writing rarely pays of late. Strong female characters must fit the bitchy PMS stereotype, or similar to get a publisher to look at the story. Otherwise, the female has to be a sex object and siren that men will pant over. She can be the strong and admirable male lead's devoted little wife, or she can be the sex interest, but she must never star based upon her own personality or actual achievement. If she is in the exec rule, she's a harpy and worse.

These are some of the reasons that Slash has such a huge market in part. Girls are force fed Cosmo mags and fake be beautiful or never be acceptable garbage to the point few of them will pick up a story about a genuine well rounded woman character. IT is a sad state, and yet it is quite prevalent in most fan fiction on this site. Read with an eye toward the sexism against women in the majority of fics and you will start to pick up on the reason for the trends.

[BronxWench]

Oh, I'm not sure I'd say that women are always stereotyped in published fiction. I've read some remarkably strong female characters, who were not Cosmo cover girls and who still managed to be competent, memorable and downright marvelous. If you read with an eye toward anything, be it sexism, racism, homophobia, homophilia, or even furry-love, you will find it. While I don't deny such things exist, I do think we need to stop looking for them in every corner.

I write slash because I genuinely enjoy it, and any female characters in my slash stories are as fully rounded. I also write het, and my female characters there are not at all stereotyped, not even in the strong and independent woman mold. They're all just people, with strengths and weaknesses, and hopes and dreams. They love, and fight, and screw up, and make up. The genders are largely irrelevant.

[GeorgeGlass]

Actually, part of why I enjoy writing PHINEAS AND FERB fics is that the main female characters on the show give me a lot to work with. Isabella is a girly-girl with a massive crush on Phineas, but she's also an adventure-seeker and leader who can do just about anything she puts her mind to. Candace is utterly neurotic, but her craziness is often as much a strength as a weakness.

[Kurahieiritr]

I write slash because I genuinely enjoy it, and any female characters in my slash stories are as fully rounded. I also write het, and my female characters there are not at all stereotyped, not even in the strong and independent woman mold. They're all just people, with strengths and weaknesses, and hopes and dreams. They love, and fight, and screw up, and make up. The genders are largely irrelevant.

I am glad I am not the last person on the planet who tries to create well rounded female characters. However, every time I write in a realistic female character with flaws, I seem to get accused of Mary Sue crap without fail by the majority of the readers. I was basing my statements upon the things I have read at some sites where female characters appear at all in a story. The media comments are more directed toward the television and movies i have had the misfortune of seeing of late. I watched a two hour stretch of television and wanted to puke because reality TV bit is so undertone with the sexism act like a doll class female crud I couln't stand it.

[BronxWench]

Oh, gods, television... I so rarely watch it, and when I do, it's things like Game of Thrones, or Vikings, or Copper on BBCA. I refuse to watch talk shows, reality shows, or anything where a "personality" calls the shots.

But I'm sticking with George RR Martin on this. View all your characters as people, and you will tend to have well rounded characters. Did you see the interview excerpt making the rounds? I adore that man...

[Kurahieiritr]

I had not seen that specific and very nice little interview excerpt. Really wish Hollywood and such would get the same clue that George RR Martin has going.

The mass media is a joke in my book and is the one problem all women need to wake up and refuse to allow any more power. Mass media really is feeding girls the stereotype branding right down to the most drab of cliches.

Print media isn't normally bad, so long as you find a decent author, however, after the kids foisted Pretty Little Liars down my throat recently, combined with said young women's comments . . . Is there really any hope for these young women? I am disturbed by the amount of hatred these teens through early 20's spout when it concerns other females. Some of the young Adult gals I know insist upon acting out the stereotype. It is Mass media's fault, not Print media. Yet I am seeing more of it without even trying to look for it in all the major fanfic archives I have visited. Not to mention the books these young adult gals flock to such as 50 shades, and Twilight.

To be honest, I avoid television. It was to my misfortune that I visited one of the kids I helped out before retiring from the abused child saving battle field due to health issues. She lives for the Pretty Little Liars series and books. Then again she also lives for Twilight, so guess who got stuck watching it with her because she missed her second mom? It was enough to turn me rabid against the majority of Mass Media outlets!

[GeorgeGlass]

I was thinking about this thread recently when I was watching AMERICA'S GOT TALENT. The act was two male acrobats, one wearing a dress, who were performing impressive feats of strength and balance interspersed with some clearly homoerotic sight gags. My first thought was, "Man, I bet a lot of the women on AFF would LOVE this."

[Kurahieiritr]

I was thinking about this thread recently when I was watching AMERICA'S GOT TALENT. The act was two male acrobats, one wearing a dress, who were performing impressive feats of strength and balance interspersed with some clearly homoerotic sight gags. My first thought was, "Man, I bet a lot of the women on AFF would LOVE this."

Hm, don't know about other women, but I would be very inclined to turn the show off personally. Then again, I am very finicky about Yaoi/Slash that I will watch or read. A guy in a dress is a complete turn off and revulsion causing reflex. The thought of a man in a dress really is gross to me sorry to say. But thanks for thinking of us girls as you watched it. I'm sure plenty of the girls here would have loved it if they did not see it.

[RogueMudblood]

The thought of a man in a dress really is gross to me sorry to say.

Sorry, but I have to admit that I laugh my ass off in every episode of Quantum Leap where Scott Bakula is wearing a dress.

[GeorgeGlass]

My wife's been trying to get me into a kilt for years. Hasn't happened yet, though, because it's still above freezing in Hell.

Sorry, but I have to admit that I laugh my ass off in every episode of Quantum Leap where Scott Bakula is wearing a dress.

[Kurahieiritr]

Sorry, but I have to admit that I laugh my ass off in every episode of Quantum Leap where Scott Bakula is wearing a dress.

It was the dresses that made it impossible for me to watch all of the Quantum Leap program. Unless you have your own Marty experience you would never be able to understand the creation of my particular revulsion. Then again, I would not wish that particular cross-dressing, drama screaming queen on anyone. ****Facepalm**** Very traumatic experiences created the aversion. I am even struggling to write a cross dresser in my stories to get past the unusual revulsion created because of having Marty around for several years. Still can't stand the phrase "You slut you. . . Oh wait, that's me!" Shudders.

[BronxWench]

My wife's been trying to get me into a kilt for years. Hasn't happened yet, though, because it's still above freezing in Hell.

Aaawww, disappointing! I grew up around kilted men, so for me it's neither feminine or particularly unusual.

As far as cross-dressing males, I can appreciate a really good cross-dresser as a performer, but in what I write? My slash pairings are generally two men that are equals, not a man and his partner who is trying to be a woman with a cock. I don't understand that particular fetish (cross-dressing) well enough to write it, and I'm not one to misrepresent other people's pleasures.

[Dean_Wax]

But I'm sticking with George RR Martin on this. View all your characters as people, and you will tend to have well rounded characters.

Whoops! Mine are all monsters. hash-tag-darkfic

Re: OP - I don't know about the fandom section, but the Originals are literally categorised by sexuality or lack thereof within each genre?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Dean_Wax

[DemonGoddess]

@Dean_Wax, explain what you mean?

For the categories, we start with genre, then we go to pairing types as subcategories.