Reviews anyone?

[Kurahieiritr]

I am noticing a very strange phenomena among those who ask for reviews. If you give them concrits with real thought, they seem inclined to delete the review. Not sure what to make of this strange conundrum. Then again, even if you point out the strengths, and the good stuff, simply by saying this would read better if you put it in active voice and avoid tense/character P.O.V. shifts every few paragraphs, you get the review deleted. I begin to think people actually only want fanpoodles as reviews. Stranger yet, I was in shout box and a writer was complaining about getting positive feedback in reviews. I totally am confused by this whole nonsense concerning the whole realm of reviewing now.

[DemonGoddess]

The authors who actually accept concrit are those who've been around for a fair number of years. I've noticed the younger they are, the less likely they are to really LOOK at the concrit and take it for what it is, and LEAVE it for others to see.

[Kurahieiritr]

Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering if I was losing my mind when I double checked a couple unfinished stories I decided to read, and have reviewed which were very light on reviews given. Seeing that the reviews were deleted shocked me with the number of people crying for reviews in their A/N sections. A person in shoutbox this morning was complaining about getting lots of positive reviews instead of trolls. When I asked why, they said they were purposefully writing as badly as possible. I do not get the ideology at all. Shaking my head. They got mad at me for telling them, along with others in shoutbox, that they should be grateful that they are getting reviews as feedback at all. Overall, it makes me wonder about whether leaving reviews is worth the hassle of fighting to get the captcha correctly typed in the box some days.

[DemonGoddess]

Well, I read older fandoms, so the writers there have been around for a long, long time, and are certainly not in this age bracket which tends to delete if it's not a fanpoodle review. So, I know that when I do actually have time to read, and leave a well though out review, THEY like it. I've also noticed, as I said before, that the older writers (meaning IRL age) are much more likely to take the concrit and RUN with it. Use it as it was intended, as a help to improve his or her writing.

For that matter, I've also noticed that one leaves actual concrit and the author is NOT an American (and a young one at that), the review is much more likely to be left, and the author will again tend to run with it.

[Kurahieiritr]

Got it. I'll keep that in mind for future reference as to whom I do leave reviews for in the future. I truly appreciate the information from you Demon. I was thinking it was a bad case of people can't handle an ex editor for a magazine giving them feedback despite my attempts to tone down the critical analysis. I'm also prone to think it is the word "revision" included within the reviews that are getting my reviews deleted the most. ROFL. Chalk it up to laziness is one of my stronger opinions at this time.

[BronxWench]

::grins:: I have a few pieces up here in serious need of revision, which I will get to soon, I hope! Some of those have reviews with some seriously good concrit, and I intend to use that to clean up the stories in question.

Do I love it when people like what I write, and tell me? Of course I do. But I love it when people take the time to give me a detailed and well thought out review. I love to know what worked and what didn't. I'm no kid, but that doesn't mean I don't learn every single day, and that I can't try to improve every time I sit down at the keyboard.

[Kurahieiritr]

Actually I pulled up your page today cause DemonGoddess said you like real reviews. She gave me a list of writers who are fine with getting reviews that point out passive voice and similar problems along with the strengths list.

[BronxWench]

Bring it on!

Seriously, having just been through the process, I'm amazed at how much stronger my story is on the far side of the edit. I've been guilty of some completely amateur errors, and I've learned so much. I find myself thinking more as I write the new story that sat down in my lap and made eyes at me, and with any luck, it will be an easier edit. Or maybe not...I could find other things that need work. ::grins::

[Kurahieiritr]

I just reviewed Almost home. I added both of my email addy's if you wish to contact me. Chuckles. I liked your writing style since you did not bog me down with insane bore-fest setup. It was a pleasure to read your short story original. I am not a gamer fan, so I would likely be lost in that sector. Chuckles@myself. Hope that my review helps you to further improve as you continue you writing journey. Who knows, I might even put up a couple sample chapters of some of my original work at some point.

Then again, I used to be at Urbis and was horrified to realize how few people understood real grammar that were giving me feedback at the time. ROFL. It may only be fan fiction I have posted for now, with its own share of dyslexia moments, but I am slowly clearing up problems with my series. But. . . my work tends to psychology heavy. I also write a lot of angst/darker themes so my writing is sometimes abrasive feeling. I do that on purpose though. If you don't mind tat writing style, feel free to check out a page or two of my initial d some day. I would love to know how many glitches others have missed. I'm sure I have a few. Chuckles@ myself. I am way too close to my own writing some days.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Kurahieiritr

[Dean_Wax]

Stranger yet, I was in shout box and a writer was complaining about getting positive feedback in reviews.

I am going to send you a message, in the interest of privacy.

[pittwitch]

Most serious writers will welcome reviews of all types. I'd give my eyeteeth for a concrit review but don't beg or whore out for reviews. It is a part of the writing process to find your own voice, a voice that is completely independent from the reviews.

[Kurahieiritr]

Most serious writers will welcome reviews of all types. I'd give my eyeteeth for a concrit review but don't beg or whore out for reviews. It is a part of the writing process to find your own voice, a voice that is completely independent from the reviews.

I agree, Pittwitch. However, it is difficult to weed out those who wish real concrit from those who want ego strokes, or simply desire attention for all the wrong reasons. I see please read and review and I take those writers seriously. I review. I am not all love it vagueness oriented reviewer. I am a to the point and bunt reviewer if there is a very big writing problem, such as run on sentences. I tell the writer what strengths I see, the good points of plot, and other things also. Some stories have very little good to point out also, another problem I run into while reading. I have to refrain from reviewing the really bad fics, because at best I have an abrasive personality and know this well enough. ROFl.

When I write, it is to entertain any who choose to read the things I post. If I do a decent job, both the positive, and negative feedback equally feeds my muse. Both help me to expand as a writer, and revise so that my stories get better with each weakness discovered. I know that I get too close to my own writing, so the feedback with concrit allows me to see things that I miss even after 4 read thorough combs, and corrections done. Like Bronx elegantly put it, I make infantile mistakes in my own writing. It is a normal glitch for any writer to commit. I do edit for a couple of people, yet, I make the dumbest goofs in my own writing. I find most of them once I get through pounding the rough out, but not always.

I get very confused when I see people delete their reviews if anything less than glowing was mentioned. You simply can't improve the stories and the pleasure gained in the work process when that happens. As DemonGoddess said, it is the younger generation doing the review deletes as a matter of course. The same younger generation can not handle any form of input that is less than pedestal placement worthy of them I begin the think. Makes reviewing a real nuisance at times, but I will persevere because a few people do like real reviews.

[Hyperminimalism]

Most serious writers will welcome reviews of all types. I'd give my eyeteeth for a concrit review but don't beg or whore out for reviews. It is a part of the writing process to find your own voice, a voice that is completely independent from the reviews.

I consider myself to be this type of writer. I write for me, but I post my stories to share with communities such as this one. One of the main reasons I post is to get feedback on my stories. I do enjoy hearing what I can improve upon because it makes me a better writer. It also helps to hear what you're doing well so you can continue doing that, if not improve upon it. But in the last five years or so, maybe even longer, reviews have become a thing of the past. I feel incredibly lucky and excited when I open that email labeled: "You have a new review for..." At this point, I'll take just about anything; however, I will not delete any reviews. It's a practice I have never understood if one is sharing their stories. I will never beg for reviews either, although they really do lend a hand in helping to motivate me. Then again, they are not the reason I would hold a story hostage, and they never will be. It defeats the purpose of sharing and hoping to garner concrit. In turn, I've always made an effort to review everything I read, even if it's to mention that a comma has been used improperly, but the dialogue is really fun and true-to-life (or something of the sort). I guess reviewing is just a dead practice now-a-days.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Bun

[RogueMudblood]

I will not delete any reviews.

I admit I have deleted troll reviews from FFN left by "guest". I even know who left them, but because they weren't logged in, I can't prove it.

And I hate to think that it's a dead practice - I always try to review as well. However, there are a great many things that I view for staff purposes, or for purposes of proving plagiarism on the part of one party. Those items will not usually receive a review.

[Hyperminimalism]

I admit I have deleted troll reviews from FFN left by "guest". I even know who left them, but because they weren't logged in, I can't prove it.

And I hate to think that it's a dead practice - I always try to review as well. However, there are a great many things that I view for staff purposes, or for purposes of proving plagiarism on the part of one party. Those items will not usually receive a review.

Deleting things like spam unrelated to the story makes sense, but for me, even if it is a flame, I couldn't care less. I don't get troll reviews, though, so it's not something I have to deal with...ever, lol. Back when I wrote fan fiction, it was a more prevalent occurrence, but I am no longer writing in any fandom and haven't been for some time now. At times, however, if I'm being honest, I'd rather get flames than nothing because at least then I've got someone taking the time and effort to talk to me, regardless of whether it is helpful or not. That's sad, isn't it?

[RogueMudblood]

Not really, no. I think part of it, and I'm going to use this as an example (you don't have to read the story that goes with it if you don't want to) is the way that concrit is received.

http://hp.adult-fanfiction.org/review.php?set=read&no=600094447&limit=&page=9

So, first thing is how I even had to preface my review with a disclaimer - not the part about only being a reader and not reviewing it as a staff issue - but the whole bit about "I'm not attacking you."

I personally feel I shouldn't have to say that. But I do. Because writers (younger ones especially) tend to take any statement that their writing didn't fall from heaven as a personal insult, when, as a reader, all I'm trying to do is give you feedback. So when the response to "hey, here's some things to think about" is "oh my god, how dare you?!" (not that this author did, but understand the general reaction), I can see why people don't want to review.

Now, what this author did do that I think was unnecessary was post an AN chapter response (again, my staff hat is off, so let's not address the issues which will be handled on sweep). You don't even have to read that to get the idea behind it - just read the reviews after mine - all three are about the AN chappy.

I have four profiles listed where I can be contacted on my archive profile here. I have my MSN on there. Any responses to reviews I leave should be handled through any one of those venues - that's why that contact information is there.

Hells, my bio is all about the types of reviews I tend to leave. Because people get pissy about them. I don't think you should be flamed, that any actual writer should (I'm leaving thieves out of that equation), but I can appreciate that at least it's feedback. You know somebody read it, and they had a reaction - even if it was completely negative.

Basically, a lot of the issue has to do with author reactions for the last several years while reviews were left. Reviews tapered off because when experienced writers were trying to help less experienced or younger writers, they either came across as abrasive or the author had a "my shit is gold" complex. So now, the entire community has to suffer for it.

I have to wonder, honestly and truly, if a lot of those wondering what happened to the reviews now are the same ones who had the inappropriate reactions previously. (And I'm suddenly wondering if that's a worthy research project....)

[GeorgeGlass]

If you don't get a lot of reviews, I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the size of your chosen fandom than with the quality of your writing. Even people I know who are into anime (not that I know terribly many) tend to say, "INITIAL D? Is that the one about cars?" And the fact that your stories are mostly M/M probably cuts pretty deeply into even that group.

My PHINEAS AND FERB stories seem to get a decent number of reviews, although a substantial minority fall into the categories of "Why didn't you [make the story go the way I wanted it to go]?" or "When are you going write more about [the pairing I like]?" I've also noticed that, as far as I can tell, women never review my stories, but I suspect that's a content issue--there are probably only so many women who want to read stories in which teen or preteen cartoon characters have explicit sex, even if there's romance involved.

I can relate and share my own sympathies about the lack of reviews received.

[Kurahieiritr]

Not really, no. I think part of it, and I'm going to use this as an example (you don't have to read the story that goes with it if you don't want to) is the way that concrit is received.

http://hp.adult-fanfiction.org/review.php?set=read&no=600094447&limit=&page=9

So, first thing is how I even had to preface my review with a disclaimer - not the part about only being a reader and not reviewing it as a staff issue - but the whole bit about "I'm not attacking you."

I personally feel I shouldn't have to say that. But I do. Because writers (younger ones especially) tend to take any statement that their writing didn't fall from heaven as a personal insult, when, as a reader, all I'm trying to do is give you feedback. So when the response to "hey, here's some things to think about" is "oh my god, how dare you?!" (not that this author did, but understand the general reaction), I can see why people don't want to review.

Hells, my bio is all about the types of reviews I tend to leave. Because people get pissy about them. I don't think you should be flamed, that any actual writer should (I'm leaving thieves out of that equation), but I can appreciate that at least it's feedback. You know somebody read it, and they had a reaction - even if it was completely negative.

Basically, a lot of the issue has to do with author reactions for the last several years while reviews were left. Reviews tapered off because when experienced writers were trying to help less experienced or younger writers, they either came across as abrasive or the author had a "my shit is gold" complex. So now, the entire community has to suffer for it.

I have to wonder, honestly and truly, if a lot of those wondering what happened to the reviews now are the same ones who had the inappropriate reactions previously. (And I'm suddenly wondering if that's a worthy research project....)

A: I checked out the review page and read the reviews from you and the other reviewers. To be honest I love the fact that you feel compelled to leave a disclaimer before you give your review. Tells me I am not the only one who knows how thin skinned so many writers have become in the last decade. Perhaps I should start doing something similar despite finding the notion equally insulting on several levels. I know the majority of my thoughtful reviews get deleted. On a normal Reading Day, I can leave an average of 10 to 15 reviews for roughly 5 writers. During my first 2 months here, I gave so many more reviews than I do on my reading day schedule now. However, after seeing how many times my reviews have gotten erased, due to checking back with the stories pages for each writer I reviewed, I have curtailed which authors get reviews from me. The majority of my reviews vanished within a week I discovered. Can I be blamed for curtaining who I review when such problems are taken into consideration? How many other readers have been disrespected by the writers who beg for reviews in their A/N section with every single posted chapter?

When I read and review, I save the author's profile page in my bookmarks under fan fiction until I discover that the writer deletes my reviews. Those who delete my reviews get added to my little handwritten black book, and get removed from my bookmarks. When in doubt, I have the list of "Do Not Review" writers that is growing by leaps and bounds. I just bought a notebook because I can tell in a couple months time that the list is already getting obscene. Authors who have not deleted my reviews are still in my fanfic bookmark folder, and I do check back to see if they have added anything to the stories they posted.

My problem with getting my reviews deleted is based upon knowing I give good feedback on the strengths, then focus on the concrete grammar/spelling problems that stick out like busted tree limbs. I only leave examples of the repetitious problem sentences to demonstrate the needed repairs if the specific problem proves overwhelming to read. I'll post one of my review pages here so you can see an example of my reviewing style.

http://tv.adult-fanfiction.org/review.php?set=read&no=600097952

This author requested reviews of me specifically in shout box, plus left the reviews I gave in place. I will continue reading anything they choose to write and post because they showed me courtesy when they left my reviews intact. I currently ask admin members for names of authors who have the maturity to leave concrit reviews up on their review pages. Very tacky and sad, but I got sick of bratty "My Shit's Gold" variety review beggars who delete my reviews if I refuse to give them fanpoodle nonsense.

Personally, I would love to see a thread created that is dedicated to listing genuine concrit review loving authors' profile pages. The "You review for me and I will review for you" threads I have seen limit which genre I can read and give a review to, plus I also have to put up my own stories to adhere to the rules of said thread. Some days I only wish to read, and feeling I can only read the latest posted story link does not make me particularly happy.

If you don't get a lot of reviews, I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the size of your chosen fandom than with the quality of your writing. Even people I know who are into anime (not that I know terribly many) tend to say, "INITIAL D? Is that the one about cars?" And the fact that your stories are mostly M/M probably cuts pretty deeply into even that group.

A: Laughing hard about the oh so true and insightful Initial D jab, George. Initial D archive only has 2 pages of fan fiction at the moment. To be honest, I probably have the current "lion's share" of reviews for my specific archive because of my FFnet core group of readers following me to AFFnet. However, as you mentioned, Initial D is a tiny archive which does not say much for the reviews I have gotten to date. Although, it is kind of depressing that there is so little traffic in my written series' archive. Massive archives such as Harry Potter and similar archives have their own name tag, and much more material to offer readers. My work is hidden under the Anime tag in the G to L section. Takes time to hunt it down to read what little there is on AFFNet. This subdomain page shows how far down the list my fandom is, and there are only 28 fics to choose from for the readers. With so few writers, or stories to choose between, I am not surprised that there is so little traffic. Still, I am not the least surprised that Initial D gets overlooked by potential readers when it is such a skimpy pickings archive section.

http://anime.adult-fanfiction.org/main.php?cat=13

I recognize that very male friendly anime often turn women completely off so genre obscurity is the expected result. I do have a small following, mostly men who skip the blatantly tagged "WARNING: GRAPHIC LEMON" first line chapters. They don't mind the theme of evolving depth in a gay relationship, but they are die hard "I do not want to read about two men in bed together" leaning. Knowing that I actively have a male audience beside the female, I do take that into consideration for all of my posts. I keep sex themes very low key in all but Lemon chapters. The men who like my work are not upset that gay romance is one of my plot thread because I offer other, equally strong plot threads in my stories. ROFL. They get to read car mechanics, races, vicious street fights, and other material alongside the evolving relationship theme. Mot of my stories reflect a multitude of diverse human interactions that encompass a number of relationship types beyond the gay couple's involvement.

Anyway, thanks for the idea about disclaiming before reviewing a tale, Rogue. I also want to thank you, George for recognizing how obscure my fandom is, and the contribution it makes to my lack of ongoing reviews. You both made my day brighter with your newest weigh in on this subject this morning.

[Hyperminimalism]

I guess one of the main reasons I don't get many reviews is because I don't write in a fandom with a dedicated fan base. I write original stories, which makes me wonder if people actually want to go through the trouble of trying out a new world with new characters that they have no knowledge of. Of course, in an anime, a video game, or a television show, they're stepping into a world that is familiar to them, and they don't have to venture outside their comfort zone. So really a lot of the replies here don't apply to me. I am guessing the reason reviews are lacking in my case are: 1) I really, really am not that good of a writer; 2) My stories are boring and cannot hold the readers attention; 3) The readers are too lazy to review; 4) Any combination of the previous three.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Bun

[RogueMudblood]

Bun, another factor in this is that you haven't updated anything since 2011 in the Originals section on your postings. That's going to make a big difference as to whether you get reviews - if you're actively writing.

Also, you only have 2 stories on your profile in that section that have less than 10 reviews; the rest have at least an equal number of reviews as there are chapters, so you do have people giving you feedback.

I understand you might want more feedback than what you're getting, but you'll have to put something new out there in order to get people interested in looking through your writing again.

[Hyperminimalism]

Rogue, I actually did have a story up I was posting regularly on in the last 3 years, but I took it down because I was frustrated with it and I'm going on hiatus. I figured it would be better to just take it down for my sake, so yes, I was posting on a new story. And within those three years, I got little feedback, which is a long enough time--I think--to garner some reviews.

[GeorgeGlass]

Forgive my unsophisticated use of quotes, etc in this post. I haven't gotten the hang of this board's tools yet.

A: Laughing hard about the oh so true and insightful Initial D jab, George. Initial D archive only has 2 pages of fan fiction at the moment. To be honest, I probably have the current "lion's share" of reviews for my specific archive because of my FFnet core group of readers following me to AFFnet. However, as you mentioned, Initial D is a tiny archive which does not say much for the reviews I have gotten to date. Although, it is kind of depressing that there is so little traffic in my written series' archive. Massive archives such as Harry Potter and similar archives have their own name tag, and much more material to offer readers. My work is hidden under the Anime tag in the G to L section. Takes time to hunt it down to read what little there is on AFFNet. This subdomain page shows how far down the list my fandom is, and there are only 28 fics to choose from for the readers.

Whoa, there are 28 Initial D fics? The Phineas and Ferb archive has only 1 more than that, and that makes it the 4th largest in the "Cartoons M through R" category (behind Metalocalypse, Power Puff Girls, and--you guessed it--My Little Pony).

I recognize that very male friendly anime often turn women completely off so genre obscurity is the expected result. I do have a small following, mostly men who skip the blatantly tagged "WARNING: GRAPHIC LEMON" first line chapters. They don't mind the theme of evolving depth in a gay relationship, but they are die hard "I do not want to read about two men in bed together" leaning.

I will admit to being in that group. I don't really want to see guys getting romantic or getting it on, and I'm also not big on non-canonical relationships in general (which I'm sure would have half the people on AFF asking, "Then why are you even here? That's what fanfic is!")

Nonetheless, maybe I'll be brave and check out one of your other fics at some point.

[Kurahieiritr]

Nonetheless, maybe I'll be brave and check out one of your other fics at some point.

A: George, you should not have to read things that make you uncomfortable ever. I see no reason for you to not enjoy things that you take the time to read. If you feel you have to brave something, I can't imagine it being a pleasant pastime for you to read anything beyond "Shop Talk." That is truly safe because it is a car tech one shot. Honestly, I kind of presume the guys who read my work are skimming through chapters starting in "Alternate Tracks" to get to the car stuff. ROFL. I have a couple automobile shade tree mechanic junkies who love the chapters with the characters discussing car mods. So far they like the more car-centric if WIP status "Driven Heart" from the input I have gotten from the ones whom I swapped email addys with over 3 years. They skip over italics sections, so they can enjoy the car jargon and spoiler heavy themes I am tweaking to fit the rest of the series.

I will admit to being in that group. I don't really want to see guys getting romantic or getting it on, and I'm also not big on non-canonical relationships in general (which I'm sure would have half the people on AFF asking, "Then why are you even here? That's what fanfic is!")

A: To be blunt, I think you should write and read whatever makes you the happiest, George. A story you are happy with will always be superior to a story you feel miserable writing in my opinion. This site is not about fitting into some generic mold of writing non-cannon couples simply because your story fits into a specific fandom category. I think this is a place for all writers who wish to write compelling stories to the best of their human ability. To my way of thinking, Fan fiction is about taking the cannon ideals and taking the characters into new experiences, and directions that the imagination conjures for entertainment. What if is the foundation off all fanfiction, and that should never be limited by narrow minds. This is a place to blow steam and release the pressure valve of real life. You belong here as surely as any other writer on this site so don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

Funny thing about my ongoing series was how I only started the project because I was sick of the non stop stupidity of impossible car race scenes, and even sicker of everyone writing Takumi X Ryosuke fics at FFnet. I started this because I was so disgusted I decided to blow a lot of steam about lack of research and knowledge in so many of the stories I have seen at FFnet. I decided to dump the preferred "slash couple de jour" out the window and stamp all over the rabid fangirl sacred ground because of their overwhelming ignorance about cars. To me, cars are equally sacred, especially street racing which I did when I was younger. Since Takumi and Keisuke are not the "Slash couple de jour," does that mean my stories should not be here? OF course not. We both have a place in this site.

In my case, the attempt to deeply ruffle vapid fangirl feathers backfired on me big time! The gals adored Keisuke's hard core struggle and denial about being a bisexual falling for Takumi in the 1st novel "A Rivalry Revealed." The bonus male readership came from my including actual automotive knowledge to make accidents and racing scenarios realistic. ROFL. . . . Making sure I tag any iffy material as best a humanly possible started after several guys sent me protest PM's asking for the iffy sex-centric or foreplay heavy warnings when I got into "Alternate Tracks." I figure it was a great lesson for me to have the guys gang up on me in PM like they did when Alternate Tracks was fresh posted. I took their feelings in to account, and revised to put the tags in place. I have been thanks several times for that extra consideration. Far as I'm concerned, I'm sure you do things that are equally considerate for your reader base. I can also get into a well written hetero story. I'm sure plenty of people here feel the same as you about cannon couples being sacred and untouchable for a number of fandoms. So by all means, continue reading and writing what makes you happy, and ignore anyone who has a small mind. This is a place to explore possibilities beyond the original designers I figure.

Anyway, I think I best shut up because I seem to have developed diarrhea of the keyboard at this point.

[RogueMudblood]

And another part of this seems to be that people don't want to be the first one to say anything.

That same review board I linked above, if you go to the next page, the first reviewer states that they had issues with the story as well, but also indicates because all the other reviews were positive, they didn't want to say anything. That tells me that a great many more people would review if there was some type of "this is good, but it could be better" tips were left (but not with that wording - that's presumptuous, and shouldn't be used).

And of course the review right behind it is fanpoodling and doesn't actually have anything to say about the story itself, just complaining that the author is getting the concrit that was requested.

[Hyperminimalism]

Do you think it's okay for the author to request concrit specifically? Or do you think encouraging readers to explain that that is what the want and what they are looking for might not make much of a difference? If the author says it's okay and explains that is what they are looking for, would it give them the permission they needed to take that step or is it something else?