Review Replies for The Winter Of A Lifetime

[Shadowknight12]

[WARNING: Story as of yet unfinished. You might not get what the hell am I talking about.]

I've set up a poll to get my readers' feedback on whether or not I should add an Epilogue that explains what's happened after the end. I personally feel utterly ambivalent one way or another, hence why I'm asking you all. If you like the current open ending, vote No, if you want a definite clarification on the fate of the characters, vote Yes. Either way, feel free to post and give me your opinions. You don't need to register to do so, and I'll definitely take it into consideration.

Thank you all for your replies, they're awesomely inspiring.

Thoughts_in_Chaos: Wow, a favourite? Excellent! Yeah, I get exactly what you mean, sometimes the little things can really grate on our minds. I think the story with the Redpaths is pretty sad, especially since Pamela seems to be unaware of what's happened and says she hears the strange whispers of 'bad people.' And the relationship is supposed to mature slowly, building up pressure until it all comes crashing down. Hopefully I've managed to reflect that.

Anarchei: Hey, you're the 'Kindness to the Less Fortunate' guy! I have to say, the ending was something I really struggled with, hence why I'm making this poll. Glad to hear you liked the characters, they were pretty interesting to write.

Lateralus: Oh, yeah, I should've clarified what I meant. WAFF stands for Warm And Fuzzy Feeling, it's supposed to be something sweet and cuddly. But since that's clearly not the case here, I'll probably be trying again sometime in the future.

elexeNexele: Wow! That's awesome to hear! Good to hear the anticipation wasn't boring. I tried to give these two time to mature and develop their relationship slowly. And yeah, I try to stick as close to the lore as I can. I might take some liberties for the sake of the story, but I try to respect what the authors have created.

[Shadowknight12]

wanderingaddict: Thank you for the comment! There are no words to describe just how freaking AWESOME you are for writing such a lengthy review! Your rock, man.

ROFLMAO! If one of my stories fails to include elves or other fey creatures, something's seriously wrong with me.

Why yes I have! I still do, even, when I'm seriously bored. Thanks! I definitely tried to keep Aristan the cute innocent farmboy he is. And heh, you have no idea how glad I am to have got the ambient right. It was kind of hard to separate reality from Aristan's skewed-towards-elves vision. Glad it came out right! LOL, the little dog was such a cheap shot for cuteness, I can't believe it worked! I was like "Hmmmmm, he needs something to do while not with Rivandyr... OH I KNOW, PUPPY. And not just any puppy, A HUSKY!¹"

Hahahahahah, I'm so glad you could see the sexual tension between them (you know, apart from the whole drunk thing). I wanted to portray as Ree as far too decent to take advantage of such an opportunity (even if he still wanted it). And then at the end of the chapter, he was back to putting the charms on the human boy. I think I could have done a PoV switch there to show that Ree had been missing him too. But then again, I did want to keep Rivandyr's inner workings a secret for as long as possible, so maybe it worked out fine. But yeah, I didn't want to rush sex with this story. I wanted to, well, tease the reader for as long as I could.

LMAO coming to this from SCN is like going cruising to a knitting club after watching hardcore porn!

Ah, questions questions! This is all thoroughly explained in Part IIIB, especially the stuff that has to do with the Redpath questchain. Though the part about Arthas killing survivors was after Quel'Thalas and Dalaran got razed, so at least it's not that. It's more really about making it safely through the harsh winter in the mountains, more than facing the Scourge forces (though there'll be that, too, because I need to practise my action scenes). Hah, if there's something you can blame me of, is liking the WC3 units far too much. Especially the elven priest, the dark ranger and the banshee, my all-time faves. I always loved the High Elven Ranger too, even if you never got to handle them in the campaign. You'll definitely be seeing what Rivandyr brings to the table.

And speaking of him... yeah, I think Part IIIA makes it clear in vibrant, soaking detail just what kind of depths stir underneath Rivandyr's cool façade. Still waters run deep, after all. I will make it a point in Part IIIB to explore the elf's psychology deeper, to show how his mind works. How he's 'frozen' an enormous chunk of his memories and tries to live a placid daily life, with all sorts of dark things stirring beneath the ice. And Aristan would be the dude that inadvertently thaws the whole thing and gets swept away in a tidal flood.

Actually, according to this article, it's not clear where the hell Northeron actually is, so I erred on the side of caution and chose not to mention it at all. But then again, it's where the Wildhammer dwarves come from, so it does make sense that it's north of the Hinterlands. I'll give it some thought, but I'll probably go with what you're saying.

¹:

[Shadowknight12]

Serronas: *bows*

Thank you! I'm really glad you think so, I thought I was going to go over the top and skid into lame purple prose territory. Glad you think it's poetic instead!

Awww, shucks. Thanks again!

P.S.: The 'darling' bit had my mind reading the review with a very dignified Zsa Zsa Gabor voice.

[wanderingaddict]

aww look, it's gruffles! ooo who's a good boy gruffles who's a good doggy omg

haha, sorry, I just do that whenever I see a dog. or any animal really. see, that link actually really frustrates me, because instead of just going with the obvious answer, people submit pure speculation. for instance, the Warcraft 2 manual says "the griffon riders hail from Northeron, where they live in a big stone griffon aviary. they only came because the Quel'thalas elves asked them to, and their loyalties lie with them." the mountains separating... silly plains area... from the Hinterlands have A) a giant stone aerie B) wildhammer dwarves C) elves. ergo, those peaks, which have got to have a name, are the Northeron range. even if "some other book" or whatever lists "Aerie Peak" as "something separate from Northeron," then that could mean anything! it could just mean that Aerie Peak is one part, that Aerie Peak is in an offshoot of the Alterac Mountains, that Aerie Peak is just considered its own special peak, while the rest of the range is the Northeron Range. haha, I mean, geez, if they really want to get into speculation, then why not list the huge mountain range separating Quel'thalas from Lorderan? or the range separating Arathi from the Hinterlands? according to their logic, either of those places are perfectly viable candidates for the name too, as they're "nearby" and "part of North Lorderan."

heh, sorry if it seemed like I was just barking at you. the state of the lore just frustrates me to no end, especially when people do things like this (which happens way too often). I mean, it's fine and all to be just totally wrong out the ass if one day Blizz decides to name the unused zone Northeron and retcons some bullshit to make it fit, but until then, it's pretty clear that Northeron is either A) the Hinterlands range or B) not represented in the game at all! haha, I mean, hell, for all any of us know they might just decide to nuke the entire northern kingdoms and have everyone turn into demons or some shit. er, I mean...

can you tell I'm bitter? I'd say it was the bullshit with Kael'thas that broke the camel's back, but honestly the first time I just decided to give the finger to lolore was with the retcon to make Lothar's unhonorable assassination during false parley into a "titanic battle between titans!" pfft, bitch please, I was there! I saw my knights get slaughtered outside Blackrock! you can't retcon the whole point of that battle and the reason for our final victory!

[wanderingaddict]

haha oops, pretend that dumb sunglasses smilie is a B and a ). and also apparently I just went off on a rant about how much I hate the Blizz Lore rather than talk about WoaL. anyways.

it's kinda neat that you went with Rivandyr being crazy old. I was actually kind of intrigued by that, good job man. it's very subtle, in that first chapter, when you first introduce him, but there is something of a sense that there's a lot more to him than meets the eye. mostly because it feels pointless to introduce a super placid guy and then be like "he was exiled for his views!" when in reality, they wouldn't really give a shit, unless it actually was someone prominent, someone important, someone with a voice. being the oldest ranger alive probably foots that bill pretty well. if I have one critique about his backstory, it's that his daughter was mad at him (ages ago) for being a ranger? when rangers were revered at that point? I get what you're going at, but it could just be tweaked a little better to make it more of a personal issue for her, rather than a frown on the corps (at that time).

it was a fun read though. personally I would have liked to have seen a little more coaxing of Rivandyr on Aristan's part, meaning like physical seduction tactics (kissing his way down to his breeches, instead of just going for the gold like Ari did ), but then I may be thinking that Aristan's a little more innocent than he actually is so hey. if anything though, more description damnit! I wanna see Aristan flush at the sight of Rivandyr's cock, I wanna see him feel his loins stir and tremble and play with the elf's balls and stomach and look desperately up Rivandyr for encouragement and have the elf maybe slap his cockhead against the human's lips a couple times. hahaha, okay, maybe that was TOO specific. I've approached this story with the idea that Ari's just a desperate bottom waiting to have Rivandyr tear him apart and just leave him a broken wreck, but then, like I said, I may have just been colored by SCN a little too much. haha, lawlz. anyways, it was cool to see them 69, that's used way too little imo nowadays. but again, use more description! little things like the elf slapping his balls against the human's forehead- so awesome! do more of that! only spread out too, because I mean, I know next to nothing about their junk save for that the elf is "slender" and the human is "thick," but what are we comparing that to? like, Ari, looking at the elf, is like "hmm, judging by my own dick, he's kinda thin," which means the elf is still thick enough for any mortal man, with enough length to make him the envy of the entire town, or is it something else? and the biting and savaging of Ari's stomach man, coooome oooon! I mean, I could picture it- that being Ari's shirt twisted up above some fair-sized pecs, a nice bulging six-pack from all that farm work+training+wanting to look pretty for some man (unknown to him? ) and sightless, tear-filled eyes because he doesn't know what to do, but where is that in the stooory dude!!

like, don't get me wrong. I like what's there! it's just that you kinda dive straight into the emotional/intellectual aspect of the sex, rather than just slapping me across the face with raw carnality. and I mean, again, I like what's there! and it's not like you're *not* getting some specifics in, I mean the whole "He was uncovering that expanse of hard muscle and golden fuzz, hands groping harshly and freely. He was leaving red marks behind, and the blond wasn’t fighting back, he was just arching his back and moaning, nipples hard against nimble fingers" is bananas-awesome, and I'm just saying "toss in some specific physical description in there too, stuff that's not colored by perspective but more like simple fact."

know what I mean? yes/no? aah, whateves, it was fun reading it. I really wanna see Rivandyr cockslap Ari across the face a couple times though, lawlz. I'm actually really surprised dude, I'm normally not into such domination kinda stuff (and I mean simply like, pure term of domination, not S&M). I really do wonder how different my reactions would be if I hadn't read SCN first. that kinda stuff is usually something I don't glance twice at, but for that it worked, and so for this I'm colored in that same "raw carnality" vein. of course, I really mean it when I say I like elves topping (elves topping non-elves).

in terms of critiquing, it caught my attention last time and I didn't say anything, but I thought I would bring it up now. the shortened names they have for each other are... or maybe could... could either be changed to imply a more personal touch, or else have a little bit of mention for exactly why they're there. do you know what I mean? like, Rivandyr is a positively ancient dude you know, steeped in wisdom and age, and is also someone Aristan really respects right? so the initial gut reaction is that Aristan, who's super conscious of his place compared to the elf, should be calling him by his full given name (unless of course, the elf is positively insistent, or invites the human otherwise). something to consider would be to show that happening, back in the first chapter (and if you did, heh, sorry. I can remember everything I read, unless I actually need it ). it's mostly notable because they're both doing it to each other. it makes sense for Aristan to just always be called "Ari" you know? like the way Andrew is Andy. it's just his informal name. Rivandyr, not being a young farmboy, just seems a little different, and could use some explanation is all.

also, I am super convinced now that Rivandyr needs to come back as a Dark Ranger. lawlz, and maybe since DKs are kinda overdone (I mean they went from Hero class to basic melee unit for crying out loud) you could just have Ari be one of those super preserved undeads ala the "induction" route or whatever, where they're turned before they die? I dunno the reasoning behind it. I was just musing about if you didn't want to give Ari a bunch of unholy dk abilities when even right now he's just a footman. that way it can be even more of a one-sided battle when Rivandyr goes to rip him from the lich king's grasp! and Ari can maintain his innocence for eternity! or not, whateves. haha, anyways my point I wanna see Rivandyr plow him a few more times

[Shadowknight12]

Hahahah, I can fully sympathise, I go silly when I see animals (especially dogs, lol).

Oh, I completely agree. I actually think the same way, mainly because it makes the most sense. I have to confess I don't pay an awful lot of attention to WC lore anymore. I loved the first three games, which were awesome (except for Sylvanas being suddenly an evil bitch, especially since she started off pretty well for a recently liberated undead), and then WoW did a lot of cool stuff. Then it all sort of started becoming better and worse at the same time. I've actually reached the point where I've learnt to take the good with the bad. Oh, Arthas is dead and has been replaced by someone we've only seen a couple of times before? Oh, that's quite all right. I'll just shrug and deal with it. If something truly needs fixing to make sense (worgen, I'm looking at you), I do it myself. Personally, I'm trying not to get too attached to the lore anymore (I am so going to start calling it lolore, too, it makes too much sense to do otherwise), because it's just opening myself up to be disappointed and gang-raped (and not in the 'fuck yes, this is fun' way). These guys have two things in mind: Selling and Rule of Cool. Anything and everything might get sacrificed to achieve that. Hell, we're already halfway towards Warhammer 40K, the way things are going (my official bet is that WC4 begins after Azeroth finally explodes from one of the many, many, many things trying to assrape it and the surviving races emigrate to another world).

No problem! I completely agree, it's not barking! I definitely feel your frustration, dude. LMAO, that might be an improvement for the Plaguelands, lol.

What? Bitter? Whatever could make me even consider that?! LOL, poor Kael'thas. He got buttfucked with the Character Derailment stick. Like Illidan and so many others. And hahahahahah, too true. Too true. There's a lot of tiny little evil stabs like that through lore. Well, not tiny, in that case. More like getting cleaved with Doomhammer's failhammer. My turning point was actually in The Frozen Throne, with Sylvanas warming up the Character Derailment stick before BC gave it over to Kael'thas, and Garithos being single-handedly responsible for an entire race being driven out of the Alliance. Seriously, that guy needed to die so badly it was actually unsatisfying when Varimathras killed him. But the final nail in the coffin was actually the entire deal with the Blood Elves/High Elves. I'm a diehard High Elf fan, and I absolutely loathe what they did with Blood Elves. Magic addiction, courting with demons, scheming/tyranny in Silvermoon, being chums with the Forsaken (which are Scourge Lite, especially in WOTLK and even moreso in Cata), joining the Horde, being all-around dicks... yeah, let's just say they took my favourite race and raped it so much it's now the loosest slut in the city.

...how's that for barking, lmao?

EDIT: Whoops! Ninja'ed!

Edited November 23, 2010 by Shadowknight12

[Shadowknight12]

Hahah, that's fine! It was an amusing read nonetheless. Glad to find someone who actually cares about the lore and isn't just interested in getting characters together.

Heh, that makes me rather pleased, that you noticed the setup in the first chapter. I wanted to keep it subtle but still there, you know? And yes, the daughter thing was definitely something that didn't come out just quite right. Thankfully, I'm addressing the issue in part IIIB and I'll be keeping what you said in mind. My take on that is that a rift has always existed between rangers (inheritors of the night elf druidic tradition) and mages, especially since it's stated in a lot of places that mages are scheming, manipulating assholes, while rangers are wiser and more personable. I extrapolated this into a rivalry in the political spheres of Silvermoon (granted, this is something I'll be explaining further in IIIB). Ranger Generals were respected (I might have missed something, but I've never seen ordinary rangers getting the same respect from the other elves that Ranger Generals do), but a normal one like Rivandyr actually gets seen as inferior to mages within the walls of Silvermoon (outside, I'd wager it's the other way around). Therefore the daughter who gets teased her whole life for being the daughter of a ranger, while all she wants is to rise in power in the magical/political world, ends up despising her father and blaming him for everything that's wrong with her. Childish, petty? Of course. Then again, that's my take on it, and I'll be explaining it further in IIIB, so that it's not that confusing. Also, the respected Farstriders were only reformed 500 years ago. Before that, it's likely they'd have been seen as just antisocial loners who are only good at archery and bestiality.

Thanks! Ugh, yes. I swear I had to physically WRESTLE with that sex scene. It took me for-goddamn-ever to get it done and I still think it came out god-awful. Well, I have a serious problem with innocent and romantic. For the life of me, I can't write romantic stuff. All that kissing and caressing and doing cute little things () is like trying to draw water from rocks. And I will admit Ari gets VERY OOC in the scene, with him magically knowing what to do, but I swear I can't, by the life of me, write a hesitant, blushing virgin. I simply can't. I tried, did my best, and failed. I might try again, one day, but I have no idea if I can actually achieve it. Then, I honestly tried to avoid doing all the things you suggested because I wanted to avoid a repeat of SCN. I wanted it to be more emotional/intellectual, but ugh. Just fail. A big pile of fail. I'll be keeping all of that in mind for the real sex scene. And to be honest, I actually disagree with you on the stuff you say about letting the reader know about cock size, gushing about musculature and all that. Maybe it turns some people on, but I think it kind of shatters Suspension of Disbelief. Like I'm suddenly faced with the jarring image of the author drooling over the keyboard and wanking as they type that. It shatters my illusion that it's a story, and instead it reminds me it's just written wish-fulfilment. I know, I know, sometimes it's perfectly in-character (describing all the stuff the other character gazes at when they stop to admire their lover's body), but I tried to play it safe.

Yes, I actually know what you mean. To be honest, pretty much all of what you're telling me I already knew, I just struggled so hard and for so long with this chapter, I just said 'fuck it, I just want it done' you know? There came a point I just had to stop or I was going to scrap the whole thing. Which means less detail, unfortunately. And LMAO, I completely forgot about cockslapping! Hahah, that's actually really funny, the bit about SCN and elves topping non-elves. I like elf/non-elf pairings, too, though I don't mind who tops (I can certainly appreciate the image of an elf bottoming!), and it's probably something that will be present in pretty much all my stories (except the AFF prompts... I go crazy with those).

Yeah, good point there. Aristan is Ari to everyone except people pissed off at him. Rivandyr's nickname was actually supposed to represent that the two are really that close, since nobody else calls him like that. In hindsight, that's definitely something I should have clarified earlier. I think I can work it in a flashback somewhere...

LOL, I might take that into consideration for an Epilogue/whole new story idea. Yeah, DKs are definitely a little overdone. There's some undead that are rather well-preserved (Sylvanas, the darkfallen, Geists in concept art, mad scientists (WTF???), necromancers, acolytes (even if these last two's undead nature is... disputed)). I could make it work with Banshee, too (yes, male banshees do exist... argh, I can't find that bit on the WoWpedia article, but it's right here in my copy of Manual of Monsters. But we know 90% of the stuff in the RPG books has been ignored and retconned as they pleased). Heh, I have to say you do sound pretty convincing.

Once again, thank you for the review! I'm actually rather embarrassed I posted the chapter without giving myself time to go away from it for a few days and come back to add more detail. I won't let that happen for IIIB.

EDIT: I will probably be giving IIIA a rewrite before that. I really can't stand knowing that there are glaring flaws I can fix. SCN has already been gnawing at me for weeks. So yeah, by the time I update IIIB, I'll have given IIIA a rewrite of that lousy sex scene. Ack, I swear...

Edited November 23, 2010 by Shadowknight12

[wanderingaddict]

lawlz, I'm glad you're someone who just already agrees with the bullshit blood elf magic addiction crap. I mean, aside from everything else, even just calling it "addiction" is bullshit, as if they could possibly be "weaned" off it or something. I mean, what the fuck? "only the very young and very old die without it, everyone else can handle it." so like, all newborns, and all of the oldest and wisest die. yeah, okay, that's tooootally something that they can handle right? pfft, they don't need to find a replacement or anything. oh, you mean all elves experience debilitating headaches for the rest of their life? pfft! they just need to sweat it out!

gah. and the overnight change from "stalwart, honorable denizens of nature" to "bloodthirsty psychos" is bullshit too. so much bullshit all around! haha I mean, I think the biggest piece that I have trouble swallowing is the absolutely retarded idea Blizz had to just like... what, wipe out the entire race with Arthas's undead campaign? I mean, it's one fucking line of "and not a single elf survived" and it... what? what purpose did it serve? to erase one of the most iconic of the Warcraft races? much less instead of just retconning it themselves to be like "oh not a single elf that faced Arthas at the Sunwell survived" they're instead like "oh only 10% of the entire race survived!" which is just like, insanely low! I mean jesus christ! you'd think that, after that, they'd be even more batshit-crazy protective of every single elf left, regardless of whether they were Alliance or Horde. much less the high elves cutting ties and shit. some places make sense- I mean, the Quel'Lithin elves are all super-buds with the wildhammer, and they're two infested plaguelands away from Quel'thalas so really they'd stay neutral. the EPL lodge though? what the hell blizz? why too lazy to just change their models? to make up 1 or 2 new quests, or even turn it into a cool quest hub that actually explores the entire zone right before Strath?

ah well. anyways. the bullshit with Garithos, fuck, let's not forget that either. everyone all writes about how the blood elves "betrayed" the alliance, but I mean, FUCK COME ON. the humans were going to execute Prince Kael'thas, the only leader left. the human prince lead an assault on their kingdom, after the humans failed to do absolutely anything to stop it. and I mean, seriously, god damn! if anything, the elves had to choose between two bowls of shit for their alliance, and honestly, it makes a shit-ton more sense for them to be like "well okay, at least this side has a powerful hero that likes us slash actually does something to try and help us rather than just piss and moan and be a little bitch like Varien Wrynn." hah, I mean, I was a little "erm" about them joining the Horde too, but really, if you think about it, their animosity of the dwarves and night elves, hatred of the humans, irritation with the whole group and then utter horror at them all for allying with "blue-skinned demons" would make them be like "well, okay, the orcs were bad, but they at least were possessed by evil. we don't like trolls, but these aren't stupid forest trolls, so meh on them, and at least the tauren seem cool so whatever."

haha or at least that's how it makes sense to me. the forsaken, if don't right, to me would actually make the most sense for being buddy-buddy with the elves, as like, fucking half of them SHOULD BE ELVES. you know, what with Sylvanas being an elf, and "her heart is still elven" or whatever, so you know... yeah. Sylvanas. character derailment. but, (speaking of dark rangers) a dark ranger IS a banshee dude, it's just one with a corpse attached and yeah, I know that dudes can be banshees, but even if they couldn't, dudes can still be shades, which is basically a banshee anyways so it totally stands to reason that there could be a male dark ranger.

and I wouldn't even mind losing Kael'thas and Illidan (which I can't believe they didn't just make gay for each other, that woulda netted them some attention) if they had just done cool things with them you know? like, instead of just being all like WOOO I"MA CAAAARAAAZZY NOW MOODLE DOODLE DOO! they could have done, oh I dunno, like fucking anything else. gah.

anyways, enough about elves. on to the parts actually related to your fic!

edit okay actually the other thing could go better here. this is just for fun debate.

so like, I'd argue that nothing the high elves do is a rejection of nature (and by extension, of rangers). it seems to me that, based on the plethora of "the high elves love nature" stuff that's pretty much everywhere, there wouldn't be any particular animosity between the mages and rangers. if anything, the high elf approach of "if it's useful and gives power, pursue it" to training would have them simply be as open and accepting of ranger/druidic approaches as they would be to just about anything else. part of it to me stems from the fact that they'd essentially be doing what their kaldorei cousins did to them before, i.e. being smarmy bitches for no reason, but another part of me is like "well what the fuck happened to all the druids who went with those exiled elves?" I mean, there were brothers and sisters, husbands and wives, parents and children who had druidic training/talent/spark who would have left with their loved ones when the exile came. druids should exist among high/blood elves, though with exceptional rarity perhaps (certainly not enough to just be an "adventurer class). anyways.

yeah, I can see what you mean in that the mages of Silvermoon would look down on rangers in the walls, while the reverse would be true outside. it just seems to me that the whole threat of annihilation from the trolls, the "unity in the face of adversity" thing, (the ability to look down on all other races ) would serve as a powerful uniting factor for the elves, by and large preventing "animosity" from developing, especially when the rangers provide such a basic and necessary function (i.e. keeping back the angry, angry, angry trolls!). I mean, it's just something that strikes me as a little bit truer to their new blood elf ideology (and I'm not saying that's anything that should be included, blech) and since you seem to actually a thought or two in your head I'd like to hear some more of your thinking is all.

[Shadowknight12]

Yeah, having done actual research on addictions, I was very disappointed with the way Blizzard handled the whole affair. Granted, having an entire race already addicted to magic (the High Elves, I mean) was interesting, and losing their easy fix was something they could have explored more realistically. But no, they had to go all Rule of Cool on us (ugh, seriously, what you say is a prime example of completely disregarding logic. The young ones dying??? The race is fucking DOOMED, idiots!). And yeah, the rest is also pretty stupid. Especially when we learn in BC that turning to fel magic actually makes shit worse (surprise, surprise, who didn't see that coming?). Seriously, a fucking LEPER GNOME could have told them how they'd end up.

Yes. A thousand times yes. I had the mother of all angry fits when I caught up with the WoW timeline and realized what they'd done to my precious elves. And what's worse, from the original WC3 campaign, you don't actually assume, necessarily, that the 90% of the population gets killed off. You assume that the undead made a surgical strike into Silvermoon (after killing Sylvanas and her forces so that she couldn't warn them), slaughtered everyone around the Sunwell and left before the high elves could regroup. Which actually makes a lot of sense, tactics-wise. And TFT leaves things murky enough that you don't know if Kael'thas's forces are really ALL the remaining elves, or just a bunch of crazy fanatics who want revenge, while a sizeable chunk of the high elven population is back in Silvermoon, rebuilding and dealing with leftover undead. And if you do the math, it says that 90% of the high elven population was killed, and then 90% of the survivors became blood elves. That leaves the true high elven population a staggering 1% of their original numbers. That shit is crazy. But then again, take a look at the history of the races, and you'll see that Blizzard is disappointingly fond of this. Gnomes? 80% got killed/leperized in Gnomeregan. Tauren? Before the orcs came along, they were almost extinct. High elves? we know how that shit turned out. Draenei? 90% of the race in Draenor got butchered by orcs, not sure how many became Lost Ones/Broken. Darkspear trolls? They're just a tiny tribe, who lost their homeland and (once again) had to be saved by orcs. Ugh, I'm having flashbacks of tauren and Darkspear damsels in distress being valiantly rescued by strapping orc knights.

And yeah, what they did with the remaining High Elven locations is deplorable. Especially since in Cata, the Quel'Litien Lodge gets assfucked with the Character Derailment stick (they all turn to wretches thanks to Hawkspear). Link: Quel'Lithien Lodge. On the bright side, what you ask for is implemented in Quel'Danil Lodge... which is now being attacked by the Forsaken (don't worry, Gilveradin is still alive). For crying out loud, I'm stunned by the Forsaken's view of their former race. Blood Elves? Old pals! Gimme a hug! High Elves? FILTHY ALLIANCE SCUM DIE DIE DIE!

Yeah, you can say that again. I was there! We didn't betray anyone! We accepted shit from naga, big deal. May I remind you, Garithos, that in the next campaign you get mindraped by a dreadlord and immediately afterwards you basically become Sylvanas's pussyboy? Golly gee, accepting some boats/troops from the naga sure seems like a misdemeanour now, doesn't it? And yeah, the whole 'humans are awesome' thing falls flat when you see, oh... I dunno... ARTHAS! To be honest, the blood elves were screwed no matter what. On the one side, you have humans and night elves (I don't think there's any bad blood between high/blood elves and dwarves or gnomes). Oh, and big blue demons (though the later is a bit hypocritical, considering they were giving blowjobs to Fel guards in exchange for mana... they're not ones to judge!). And on the other, you have orcs (First/Second War enmity), trolls (yeah, they're not 'forest' trolls... though that doesn't make it a whole lot better) and Forsaken (you tried to kill me, bitches! And you act just like the fucking Scourge that invaded us in the first place!). Though I will admit that they have reasons to rely on the Forsaken, especially when you correctly point out that at least half of them should be high elves (and it bugs me that I don't really see that represented in the models out side the Dark Rangers). Oh, and as an aside, check out the Creative Writing Contest Winner, it's actually an awesomely detailed depiction of post-Sunwell-restoration politics between Blood Elves, Forsaken and the Quel'Lithien Lodge. It's seriously awesome (no smut though ). It does a very good job of explaining what the hell are the Blood Elves doing with the Horde (it pins the blame on Sylvanas's endorsement... which is canon and makes an awful lot of sense).

Yeah, well, Forsaken are also half undead human bastards who butchered their way into Quel'Thalas. And the other half are former family and friends. It's a mixed bag of suck and pain. Not to mention they all seem to behave single-mindedly like the Scourge they claim to hate (what with the plaguerizing, the killing and reanimating, the attacking neighbours for no fucking reason at all...). I actually thought that a good, plausible way for Sylvanas to behave the way she does (maybe I'll write about this pet theory one day) was that her soul was still inside Frostmourne. So even if she had a mind of her own and free will, her empathy, feelings and all that sentimental crap was locked away inside Arthas's greatsword. This made explaining The Lament Of The Highborne tricky, but I can chuck that to some remaining flicker of emotion within her. This, of course, was completely crushed with WOTLK and her remaining exactly the same (and becoming WORSE in Cata) after Frostmourne was shattered and the souls held within were released. And hah! Dark Ranger lolore is made of suck and fail. It's never clearly explicated WHAT they are (here, it says that they're elven rangers forcibly reanimated from the dead... not necessarily banshees), or how do you get one. Can you take a random huntard, kill him, reanimate him and have yourself a dark ranger? Do you NEED a banshee? Can you make do with a wraith/shade/ghost? As an aside, I'm writing about a male banshee someday. Why should girls get all the stripperrific outfits and cool powers? LOL.

ROFL, there's so many couples out there that just DRIP sexual tension. Illidan/Kael, Garrosh/Varian (YES, THEY DO), Thrall/Jaina (for fuck's sake, those two need a fucking ROOM already!), Koltira/Thassarian (one of the Cata videos in youtube has the beta-tester singing 'Everybody wants to live in Andorhal' as a parody of West Side Story when these two have their 'we can't be friends anymore because we're on opposite sides' conversation), Asric/Jadaar (the vitriolic blood elf/draenei detectives who get kicked out of Shatrath City)... just about everyone in this page. AHEM. Anyway. Back to the main point. Yes, ugh, insanity is such a freaking overused justification it's practically meaningless. Where are we, in Lovecraft Country? Yes, fine, the Old Gods make you crazy... but fuck, ever heard of 'temperance' and 'use sparingly' and 'diversity'? No? Yeah, lack of originality for pretty much every major villain. In fact, here in this place somewhere there's a story with a hilarious disclaimer (something like "If I owned WoW, going crazy would not be the reason every single villain becomes evil") and it was so freaking TRUE. The things I'd do with WoW if I owned it! (starting with creating incubus and male versions of all those stripperrific female-only races).

Ehhhhh, you make a pretty solid argument, but I'm looking at it from a different perspective. If you've read the War of the Ancients trilogy, you'll know that the Highborne are DICKS. Major dicks. Some of them get knocked down a peg, yes, but in the end, they still have egos the size of Arkansas. You don't get over that shit because you finally get your own 'hood to chillax in. On the contrary, without the blasted druids breathing down their necks, they can finally be as assholish as they want to! Of course, they're not DUMB, they know they have to be more careful (hence the druidic runestones that held trolls at bay and kept their magic hidden from the Legion), and nothing precludes them from wanting to be close to nature (they were still night elves, after all). The problem is that with these precautions and the Sunwell, it's only logical that they become royal cocks, at least until they're forced to admit they needed the humans' help against the trolls (and Rivandyr was alive before that).

Furthermore, this article explains that elven rangers practise druidic magic (and it's the only logical reason the bloody druidic runestones can exist in the first place). And we all know what druids think of arcane magic. To me, it makes sense that the rangers get shunned because they just can't stomach the arcane. And since we know that in Silvermoon magic is deeply tied with politics (evidenced by the Magisters), it also makes sense that within the city, all but the Ranger General get looked down upon. Outside the walls though, that's the rangers' territory (Further speculation: the Elven Druid article). Also, if you recall, Alleria had to bring the head of a troll to the Convocation of Silvermoon to convince them to rejoin the Alliance, which means that the rangers weren't really that important, politics-wise, to the high elven government. To me, this means that rangers are seen pretty much like swordsmen and archers: military meant to keep the peace and Quel'Thalas safe, but really not good for anything else. The mages might very well throw a few compliments the rangers' way when trouble starts stirring, but during times of peace? I'd bet they're subtly told to stop sullying their glorious city with their unclean, magic-hating riff-raff.

And as a justification for this behaviour, I point out the cycle of abuse. Smarmy bitches berate assholes, who grow resentful. When the power balance shifts in the other direction (with mages being in charge and druidism being pretty much a sect), the assholes become smarmy bitches to the minority. It's typical human behaviour (and in this 'verse, elves are magical humans with pointy ears and hot bods, much as it pains me to admit it). Though none of this prevents them from joining forces against a common foe (I point out the War of the Ancients trilogy once again). And really, blood elves have to get their immense dickery from somewhere. It doesn't spontaneously develop in 5 years. What I go with is that those traits have always been there, only hidden behind a veil of niceties and politeness (politicking and diplomacy), so well that most people don't even know it's there. Rivandyr is probably the only elf who will tell you this stuff in your face, because he's old and doesn't give a fuck anymore. It's a typical attitude of really elderly folk, they do away with diplomacy and state things the way they are. When the Sunwell went poof, the elves just stopped bothering with diplomacy. They let it all hang out and even got WORSE. Much, much worse. They gave the Light the finger, started whoring themselves out for magic, consorted with demons, installed a totalitarian government and started MIND-CONTROLLING OTHER BLOOD ELVES IN THE STREETS OF SILVERMOON!

So yeah, I don't believe that high elves were really all that direct in their animosity, but rangers could tell (and it was definitely reciprocated). Rivandyr's perceptions are likely coloured by his own dislike of mages, too. Though I'm pretty sure there were plenty of exceptions. After all, Rivandyr's wife married him for some reason, right?

Anyway, sorry for being so damn long-winded, I just get easily carried away when discussing stuff that piques my interest.

[wanderingaddict]

dude I'm so glad you just have the brains to figure out for yourself that Arthas just made a freakin' surgical strike. I mean, the dude's on a goddamn timetable here, you know? he's got a motherfuckin' ARCHdaemon to summon, and he can't dick around in Silvermoon! much less, I mean, fucking A, it's the race of the oldest, wisest, most powerful magic users in the entire world (save for perhaps the friggen' naga and/or blue dragonflight). really? a bunch of bones and rotmonsters just steamrolled them all? ALL of them? much less the logistical fallout of having an ENTIRE RACE of the said most powerful magic users in the world suddenly at ones beck and call! I mean, god damn, NO ONE would have survived! every elf that dies gets risen, and even the ones that explode themselves or torch their bodies could just get called back as ghosts! I mean, geez, by that point they should have enough troops to just form a solid line and march through the woods and catch every single safehold and straggler left!

no, I mean, to me the idea of a fast-ass surgical strike is just so cool. Sylvanas is floored by the traitors that opened the elfgates/gave Arthas the crystals, so instead of the guerrilla war she was planning she suddenly has to race her entire army ahead of a force that never needs to rest, never needs to stop or get tired. the elves simply aren't prepared to fight an enemy who's sole tactic is "just ball up and roll over everything" so Arthas is able to get right to the Sunwell, birth Kel'Thuzad, and then before the huge line of elves behind him closes ranks and cuts him off, he races back to Lorderan. sooo cool! so smart! so like, full of tactics and a BRAIN instead of "DERP A DERR, I'm AWthas, I'm a bwoody woooody bitch!"

ugh yeah, you do have a point though. lawlz, blizz really is, well, stupidly fond of that kind of bullshit. and the fucking high elves, god. you know, I really wish they'd get someone, just anyone with a brain, to go back to the OLD stuff, where there were factions within factions, you know? like, back to that "we don't hate Theramore, they're alright, but we do hate Stormwind, and we don't like the night elves but the tauren do" kinda stuff. I was reaally disappointed with Quel'lithen though, dude. I loved that place when it was one little bit of green and sweetness in the gross blight-zone of EPL, but now everything else is greener, healthier, prettier than that place, and then to boot they fucked it up. and honestly, you know I was going to enter the writing contest this year, after seeing how fucking cool the one from last year was, but like... after seeing what they did to Quel'lithin, AFTER this person put such a fucking shitload of effort into make the place rock, it was... it just seemed to me like it was slap right across the face. you know what I mean? hah, for me, I'd be like "look, fuck your shitty collecter's Frostmourne sword and the tour, just don't shit on the creative effort I put forth for you guys."

there's not bad blood between the elves and the dwarves, but it states like, everywhere, that the two races are not at all fond of each other. the elves like the wildhammer, because the wildhammer are naturalistic like they are, but for the most part the just don't particularly care for them (at least, the ironforge/dark iron ones, which are the ones that make up the alliance and alliance enemies, anyways). there's no first war enmity for the orcs, and while there should be a LOT of second war enmity, apparently it's all just "they burned some forests and attacked Windrunner Spire" now so like... ? who knows how much that deserves to still be around. and I really wish they'd show the huge number of elves that should be a part of the Forsaken too. like, actually using more banshee models, more male undead elves, for magic trainers, for... for well, everything appropriate! but especially for the forsaken in the Ghostlands, but that would just be bomb-all cool.

it doesn't say anything like that about elven rangers though? not at that link. the first lines are even like "Many dark rangers are former banshees. The difference is dark rangers have regained their physical bodies, thus possessing greater powers" with the one "known" exception being Nathanos, who never entered that incorporeal state (maybe because he's human, and it's harder for the not-very-spiritual humans to become ghosts, compared to elves?). haha, anyways, a nitpicky point I think that there are "hunters" and there are "rangers" and a Ranger is a Hero Class, whereas a hunter is just a dude with a gun or a bow. they don't actually have any plant skills, no wilderness lore. they can survive well, and interact well with animals, and have an excellent shot, BUT they also have melee skills and can't like, say, glide through the forest with ease because every tree is telling them where to go and what to do. know what I mean? so then like, a ranger if they die, will become a dark ranger. a hunter is just a boring ol' hunter. or... yeah...

haha anywho. yeah, the whole like the dreadlords say about "her heart is still elven" is SO COOL. I mean, like, god damn you know? she's smart. she's dead, not retarded. she can still think for herself. but, you know, sera sera. Blizz can't write a strong woman without turning her into a psychotic bitch so what do you expect.

and Garrosh... *shudders in revulsion* ish. ish, ish, eww. god, his head looks like his shoulders blew a bubble dude. I can't imagine how anyone could possibly think that drooling nancyboy little bitch is at all attractive. you first meet him in Outlands and he's too busy suckin' dick to speak, and then you see him in Northrend where he has single-handedly failed the entire horde advance. and then he throws a tantrum about it! a little tantrum! where he runs all over his stupid little map and smashes the scourge figurines! gah. what a pussy. a sobbing, whiney pussy. he's honestly as gross to me as any of the whiney cuntboy ukes in the ten-thousand yaoi stories out there. blech.

Thrall and Jaina needed to happen so freakin' badly though. and now it never will, because Blizz has their heads up their butts and thinks that people will take to this stupid orc bitch who wants Thrall to change his name because "that's his slave name" and they totally don't like each other but oh they come to like each other eventually.

ugh. I hate it when they just introduce characters like that, you know, to like, tie up loose ends and shit. Lor'themer? coulda been badass, but no appearances in the game, doesn't do anything, and the one time he doesn't he acts like an absolute tard. or, at least is treated like one. pfft, god. and I really like to think of Satyrs as the slutty striperific version of those female-only races. a better idea would to be to make males as sexy, pretty, and interesting as the slutty females that are in the game already!

anyways, actual point we were discussing: I can see what you mean too. to me it just reeks too much of that blood elf ideology bullshit, which I just toss out the window because it makes no sense (and i mean, really, mind control is a CHANNELED spell! it doesn't work like that!). to me, there's no reason to assume that there would be derision between the nature side of the elves and the magic side (just as there's no reason to assume that the Blood Knights, martial and militaristic, would look with derision on the ranks of their own army when the point is that they're at least serving as opposed to either not serving or else being wretched or something. I mean, there's a point where, when you have the rest of the world to look down upon because no other race is so pretty, so perfect, so enlightened as you, there's no real point in frowning at one of your own, you know? because at least they're an elf, and not a filthy, mongrel human/dwarf/goblin/troll/etc

haha or not. whatever. anyways for the druidic thing, you should look up the article on the high-elf druid-magi. I dunno if it's still up, or where it is even (what with the split in the wowpedia versus wowwiki bullshit) but I thought that painted a much more appropriate picture of the high elf view, that being any force is just natural, acceptable part of the world, no better or worse than any other. and the whole point of the rangers having going and still staying with the high elves in the first place is that magic is an accepted, loved, and totally awesome part of their society. I dunno, I'm not saying scrap the idea I just like debating it with you!

[Shadowknight12]

Yeah, I was actually kind of stunned by the revelation. What the fuck was Arthas doing in Silvermoon? Having a slaughter picnic? "Oooh, whee, let's kill the pretty elves!" Especially taking in consideration that yeah, they have a freaking Archdemon to summon! And honestly, the elves are NOT easy to kill, spread thin all throughout the forests. Even in the game you see that they're always in small groups and take advantage of the terrain to attack by surprise. You honestly can't expect to slaughter so many in their own home ground! And the Dead Scar makes a lot more sense as a surgical strike than as a meaningless terrain marker (which is what it is if you say that the undead spread all over Quel'Thalas, killing everybody). Half of Silvermoon destroyed? That one doesn't make sense any way you look at it. Especially since they're freaking BUILDINGS, built with MAGIC, and the undead aren't especially renowned for their dispelling techniques (that one goes to dryads, random creeps and DING DING DING THE HIGH ELVES). Seriously, what are those spires and towers made of, cardboard and toothpicks? And besides, what the fuck are you doing in the city when the Sunwell is on the goddamned ISLAND! What the fuck did Ner'zhul see in Arthas? A pretty face and a cock? Because I'm pretty sure that's all Arthas has going on for him. He really doesn't have the brains to lead a cart, much less an army of undead. And ugh, even if we assume he can't reanimate them all, that still leaves you with a huge boost in troops! After all, you have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of corpses (and spirits! Since apparently you get to bansheeficate all the women!) that you can reanimate until your necros can't take it anymore! Geez, the developers must have seriously failed math in High School, because what you say about a single line to catch any straggler... yeah, that's pretty much it.

Definitely agreed. And if Arthas has two brain cells to rub together and stops for just a sec, brb to kill Sylvanas, so that she doesn't inform Silvermoon, it makes a whole lot of sense. The guy storms the gates before the city's defences are up, goes through it with a small group of elite units, crosses over to the Sunwell, revives Kel'Thuzad and sounds the retreat. Wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, got himself a lich, some banshees and left the high elves without their source of magic. That would have been pretty cool. But noooo, they just had to bend over and get DP'd by Rule of Cool and Rule of Drama. LOL, that last part is hilarious because it's so true.

You can say that again! But apparently, things aren't likely to go back to what they were any time soon. If I took over as it is right now, I'd scrap worgen and replace them with High Elves (but since we can't have two player races with nearly identical models, I'd just come up with something to justify a distinctive if minor physical makeover). And yes! Factions within factions are definitely something that adds variety to the game. And not just "well, every race has its own PoV," but actual philosophies and ideologies struggling for dominance, like Theramore vs. Stormwind, Nordrassil divided between Tyrande and Faghelm, etc. And yeah, I absolutely hated the whole Quel'Lithien deal. Though I think the developers read the winner's story and didn't feel they were slapping him across the face, I think they completely missed the point of the story and looked at it from Blood Elves' PoV (which makes the QLL sound like stubborn, bitter, grudge-keeping assholes). But even though you writing for the competition would be like reading distilled awesome, I can completely understand your reasoning. Winning and then getting shat on the face is... less than cool.

Yeah, I guess that's true. The only dwarves they get along with are the Wildhammers. And LMAO, I always forget that the first war took place in Stormwind and ended there. I always keep thinking that it involved the Alliance or some shit, when it was just ORCS and HUMANS. And well, Alleria might have been an extreme case (what with her brother being killed by orcs) but you get the impression elves really hate them or something. Though this might be something that later got retconned. Yes! The Forsaken look almost universally human. Yes, I know that Lordaeron got the worse of it, but geez! You said 90% of the high elves got killed! Show me that percentage, Blizzard! And yeah, especially the Forsaken closer to Quel'Thalas (a single elven ghost wandering around Darrowshire? ).

Ah, my bad. No idea where I got that from. I've probably been reading too many forum discussions and taking opinions as facts. Let's hope that when Cata comes around, they'll deign to explain what the fuck is the deal with Dark Rangers. Hmmm, I'll give you that on the hunter bit. No matter what the Forsaken and the Blood Elves flavour the hunter class as, they're not really the same.

Yeah, that part was what set me up for disappointment later on. I was expecting SO much more from her when they said that. But no, we got Sylvanas Windrunner, the Bitch Queen. Though Jaina was pretty decently done, actually. She's a pacifist that actually tries to stop war (and not in a hypocritical way), but the developers seem to HATE her or something. Arthas, Dalaran, her father, Wrynn showing up, it's like they don't know how else to make her cry! Though I have to admit I hated the whole 'she's still in love with Arthas' plot that showed up in the comic and continued in WOTLK. It makes no freaking sense. He DUMPED her before the entire deal with Ner'zhul happened, turned evil, killed pretty much everyone she knew in Dalaran, violated her principles all over the place, TURNED EVIL, and she still loves him? Oh, Jaina, not you too. Another victim of the Character Derailment stick.

LMFAO! Your reaction to Garrosh had me rolling on the floor! It was seriously hilarious, dude. Yeah, he's ugly as fuck, he's a whiny embarrassment to all orcs (nay, to the entire HORDE) and he's the dumbest bitch around (which is why 'half a stack of peacebloom' has been voted higher than him in a list of possible warchiefs after Thrall steps down), but you can't deny that if him and Scarface spent the next expansions fucking like angry boars instead of driving their respective factions to the ground, we might actually see some progress for Azeroth! Though I'm not touching that pairing with a standard-issue ten-foot pole. I might enjoy a challenge, but not one that makes my eyes bleed.

Though whiny cuntboy is a good nickname for him...

Bah, I missed the fact that those two were in a romantic relationship (haven't read The Shattering yet). Ugh, that shit seriously sucks. I honestly have no words. These people can't write romantic relationships for shit.

*nods* Definitely agreed. Lor'themar was VASTLY improved by that guy's story. I actually got a feel for his personality! And ugh, satyrs. I have a huge love/hate relationship with them. I am *extremely* fond of satyrs in stories or 'verses (read: reduced to a drooling idiot), but in this one, not only are they 100% undiluted evil, but they also sport grandfather beards. Some night elves do, too, and it ruins ANY shred of sexiness they might have going on. Yes, slutty stripperrific outfit... and a Santa Claus beard. Just... no. Do not want. Give them a shave (or keep 'em kinda scruffy, I don't mind scruffy!) and we'll talk. Though you have a huge point there with making pre-existent males sexy. The developers could take a HUGE hint from all the porn out there. To be honest, I never thought of draenei as sexy until I saw all the well-done porn with them. They actually made them look proportioned and attractive! But we all know that won't happen, because the players enjoy playing over-muscled, silly-looking males that don't threaten their frail egos. Hmph.

Yes, but all that blood elf bullshit has to come from somewhere, right? How else do you explain how swiftly and universally they became what they are now? (yes, you can blame bad writing on the developers' behalf... which is actually a point I hadn't considered...) Assuming the transition to blood elf ideology is natural, it means that most high elves must be, in some level, like that (LMAO, you're so right about mind control, they think it's like a banshee's Possession or something!). I do get what you mean, but back before the Troll Wars, who else was around if not other elves? They didn't want to have anything to do with humans and the trolls left them alone until they launched the massive attack that begun the Third War. Yes, you can say that there's no point in looking down at a member of your own race... but I don't think they HAD anyone to look down upon back then. They invaded the trolls, founded Quel'Thalas and built their own little shred of paradise, sealed away from the rest of the world. The humans were far towards the west, the trolls were readying themselves to counter-attack and there was nobody else around. My guess is that logically, all that dickery has to be spewed upon somebody. Though like I said, it's not Blood Elf 'all up in your grill, doncha wish your girlfriend was hot like me' massive dickery. It's subtle, sweet-talking, behind-your-back dickery that might have probably been seen as an art form. It just sounds a lot more direct because Rivandyr's perceptions are a bit skewed (and like I said, he's old and doesn't mince words).

If I had to think of an example, it'd probably be something like a ranger wanting to eat at a fancy tavern in Silvermoon, and the innkeeper saying "Oh, no, good sir! I'm afraid we're all out of fine wine tonight. It's a true shame, I tell you, but entirely my fault for not keeping my cellar well-stocked. I offer you my sincerest apologies!" And then fifteen minutes later, a wizard shows up, orders fine wine and gets discreetly served a bottle.

Well, the article you mentioned was renamed into the one I linked earlier, the Elven Druid. It's right there in the Discussion tab. Doesn't say much about integrating magic and nature, though. Anyway, from the High Elf article, I get this: "Soon, Quel’Thalas became a shining monument to high elven prowess. It was crafted in the same style as the halls of Kalimdor, with the addition of integrated magic and a brighter colour scheme. Although they did not worship it, a great respect was maintained for nature. The high elves were careful to interweave their cities and architecture with their natural surroundings, creating a truly beautiful and tranquil land." My guess is that the 'respect for nature' bit comes from their intrinsic connection to it, something that's in their blood, that no amount of magic abuse can taint. It's also what makes some of them follow the path of the ranger, that ancient calling to be one with nature. To be honest, I can't imagine the bitter, assholish, resentful Highborne liking people that remind them of those that gave them such a hard time back in Kalimdor. It's too OOC. Granted, I'm assuming that this way of thinking was perpetuated by the Magistrates and ruling class, but I don't think it's that much of a logical stretch. You do make a very good point about why would rangers stick around if they were being treated like that. It's not like they couldn't defend themselves if they settled elsewhere since that's more or less what they're doing for Quel'Thalas in the first place. Hm. I may have made it sound a bit too harsh there. Gonna have to clarify it wasn't THAT bad in the next part. I still think both factions CAN'T get along that well, simply out of ideological differences. There's bound to be disagreements.

Though I suspect a lot of this comes from the massive retcons the game experienced between its iterations, the novels, the RPG, the comic, etc. We have 'gentle, RELIGIOUS, nature-loving magic people,' 'pompous assholes addicted to magic,' 'massive dicks willing to sink to any level to get what they want,' 'stealthy, skilled archers' and who knows what else. While the orcs got a massive change for the better (and not just morality-wise, I mean in terms of characterization and lore), the elves were assfucked by just about everyone.

Heh, for what it's worth, discussing this stuff with you has given me a lot to think about! I was going to have Rivandyr talk about this a bit more in IIIB, but now I think it might actually lead to a lot of back-and-forth between the two of them as they discuss elven culture, LMAO. There's certainly a lot of issues to touch here!

[wanderingaddict]

hrmm, they don't have the original page about the druid magi though. the stuff about literally druidic mages. that's too bad, there was a lot of cool stuff there.

anywho, this is actually something I've thought about too (in a discussion about what was the most nature-loving race, where for me I decided that it's really all about "approach"). trolls, night elves, b/h elves, and tauren, to me, are the single most nature-loving races, but they all have radically different approaches. for the night elves, it's that "overabundance" of life, you know, the Wailing Caverns type, where everything, every SINGLE SPACE is RIFE with growth. they exalt in the untarnished glory of life, the radical expansion of nature, but only of "good" nature, along with "controlled" "bad" aspects of nature (like the "necessary purging" of predatory animals). trolls are content to just live and let live- well content and/or unbelievably lazy, but tomato, tomato every troll civ so far has just built on top of, over, or around really dangerous animals, but they don't really seem to care either way. haha, like I said, live and let live, or something. the tauren worship it by imitating it, by hunting worthy kills and "respecting its power" (even as they kill the strongest ones >.>).

the high/blood elves are different though- they love and respect nature, all of nature, much like their kaldorei origins, and like greenery and shit, but at the same time where their elf cousins accept and embrace that "primal flow" they instead assume absolute control over every single element. hah, thus the whole "eternal springtime enchantment" thing they got going on. you keep mentioning them as seeing nature and magic as two separate ideologies, but personally I don't see any reason for them to assume that idea. Cenarious and Malfurion believe that, definitely, but there's no reason to assume that the arcane is in any way, shape, or form unnatural when the titans that created the green dragonflight and the emerald dream of life also created the blue dragonflight and the forces of magic on Azeroth. the night elves are zealots, spitting on an entire aspect of creation because it can be abused, but druidism can be abused just as easily (lol I mean look at teldrassil). there's no reason to assume that, in a culture that reveres both magical prowess, as well as natural magic and druidism, that the two would be at odds, rather than intertwined (which is what the original druid-magi article was talking about, in relation to the creation of the Runestones. of course, this was also back when the Runestones warded and protected, instead of just doing... absolutely nothing at all, or whatever the fuck they thought shield elves from magic, when the rest of the world (i.e. the blue dragonflight, the naga (who actually want to summon demons) the humans, the goblins, the gnomes, and the Shen'dralar highbourne) is still practicing crazy amounts of arcane magic and the burning legion is still looking for a way in would do.

haha, anyways. in thinking about it though, I mean, the context of the time is also believable, because, say, the magisters do frown upon those dirt-children playing out in the woods, when they could be becoming mages, and if this is before the first troll war then, you know, it's like 6000 years ago or whatever (lawlz) so the magisters are all full of themselves and don't see the hard lesson that they'll have to lean on the horizon, that being you need those ghosty rangers to control the woods, in addition to all the druids maintaining it and all the sorcerers enchanting it, and all the battlemages defending the city. I mean, it could even be some funny justice, in a sense, to an old elf who can look back and see that the wars with the Amani were pretty much ignited by the elves themselves, rather than looking at them as unprovoked and shit. but anyways, yeah, like, after the war there's a paradigm shift and the magisters have to suck some sour eggs, and that starts the change to what happens over the next 4,000 years or whatever, to raise rangers to the exalted place they have in high/blood elf stories and lore.

[Shadowknight12]

Hm. Probably deleted due to "speculation." They seem to be fond of doing that.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... now that's a rather excellent question. To be honest, I had never even considered all that. I do agree with what you say, though I think it's based on philosophy. Night Elves were actually charged to take care of nature, and their approach seems to be "revel in it," which means what you've just said. Tauren I think it's more about seeing themselves as a part of nature too. They hunt, just like animals. And since the strong hunts the weak, it's understandable why they go after the greatest predators, to find their place in the food chain. Trolls are definitely lazy. To me, troll philosophy is less "live and let live" and more "let's get high and eat hearts, mon." And it's all about the Loa. There's Loa representing pretty much every major animal in their environment, so it'd be very disrespectful to go around killing those. And personally, I think the high elven view of nature is a bit steeped in hedonism. I mean, it's not entirely about respecting nature, if you look at the eternal springtime/eternal autumn enchantments they have going on, it doesn't really serve any function but to make the place idyllic. If they respected nature, they'd see it as a rather unnatural thing to do (hello? Cycle of the seasons? What can be more natural than that?), that serves no purpose but to please them, or perhaps as a tangible proof of their absolute power over everything in the world. So yeah, I think it's less about respect and more "Lookit the trees, they're like, sooooo pretty omg!"

You know, I have to admit, I feel kind of silly for assuming the dichotomy was alive and well in high elven society. It's not really explained anywhere if they still believe what the druids believed, or if they started thinking differently. The arcane's nature is... disputed. On the one hand, you have magic explained as pulling stuff out from the Twisting Nether and being horribly unnatural. On the other, you have the blue dragonflight and ley lines, which are pretty much arteries of... something that hasn't been really explained, that can be tapped to do magic. So yeah, the only thing they seem to have in common is that magic corrupts, is addictive, yaddayadda (and LMAO, you're right, Teldrassil is a huge example of druidism gone bad!). Honestly, I hadn't thought about from the ley lines PoV, about magic being part of the natural world and all that. It would definitely be something the high elves would believe in. Hmmmmmmm. Yeah, I think that definitely works. They see it as another aspect of nature that can be tapped and controlled. And then the Holy Light comes along and by the time BC rolls in, it's seen as yet another source of power out there for the taking (which is actually true! Silly humans, attaching morality to an elemental force!)

Yeah, the Troll Wars were 2800 years ago (but who's counting? ) and before that, the elves were pretty much on their own. And hah, when they came to Quel'Thalas, it was a sacred troll area, and these guys invaded and drove everyone out. I think they had it coming!

Interesting points you've made...

[wanderingaddict]

well with ZG, ZA, Jintha'Alor, Zul'drak, and the Sandfury place being all the major troll cities, and with *all* of those being animal-infested, tree-filled, teeming-with-life and completely unspoiled wonderlands despite thousands of years of habitation, it's pretty clear (to me at least ) that the trolls are at the very top of the "low-impact civ" part of nature. and, really, they're actually willing to settle *anywhere* and, what's more, they don't meddle with the way things are! they hardly hunt, they don't chop down trees, they don't displace animals, they don't do jack shit! lawlz, they probably do have an incredibly unfair advantage in that they're really just lazy elves, so they have that body that can survive on a handful of twigs and a bird or two, but still got their primal roots and that regeneration, as well as that lazy, lazy attitude, so they're perfectly happy to sit in a stick hut and just ponder/meditate/get high all day. the tauren I'd say are similar, and definitely are very high up there in terms of respect and appreciation for all places and aspects of nature, but... they don't really have that drive to defend their lands the way that trolls do. as for night elves, well, I forgot to mention that little part where they don't bother doing jack shit about anyplace that's not a tree-infested forest. Desolace cursed for a thousand years? pfft, w/e. Azshara? pfft. Tanaris, Un'goro, Durotar? pfft to all those too. they like their forested mountains, and everything else can burn for all they seem to care. that's kinda what sets them down from trolls a little bit, to me, in terms of nature-loving respect. trolls'll settle anywhere and be perfectly content. nelves though, if it ain't got trees it ain't worth savin'.

and yeah, heh, the high/blood elves are all about the hedonism, though I'd think of it as something more like vanity, or maybe just self-importance. they do respect nature, in that they care about all the trees, all the animals, all the plants in their domain, but it's one of those "so long as they bow to our will" kind of things, hah, you know? or maybe it's a "a natural forest is pretty, but in our hands it's gorgeous" kind of thing, where they're like "we merely keep it in a state of peak growth, peak prosperity, where every insect has a flower, no animal need starve, or freeze." and maybe it's just as natural to use one innate force to augment another? lawlz, who knows. it could be anything

almost every area is sacred to the trolls for some reason though. they've had a lot of chances, being the oldest race on azeroth! heh, maybe the elves were even the peaceful ones, being like "hey you big, strong, limber guys, we wanna settle here and have sexy times with you" and the trolls were all like "eww no we're big gross forest trolls that look like inflated gorillas we're not cool at all" and then basically got what they deserved too.

[Shadowknight12]

Weeeeeell, I think huts/tents are more eco-friendly than enormous ziggurats, so I'd put tauren above trolls (rabidly defending their lands notwithstanding). But you're right, those two are pretty laid back! LMAO at the body bit. That's so true, trolls could just survive on mould and bat droppings. Hmmmm, you make a good point about night elves, BUT! I have a counter to that. What if they CAN'T do jack shit about it? I mean, I've done some research on Felwood, and it's stated pretty clearly that not even Cenarius, Malfurion and who knows who else, have been able to cleanse it. What if the same applies to any area where life can't teem naturally? (Let's leave Ungoro aside since that shit is seriously messed up) And if you look at the War of the Shifting Sands, you see that the night elves went there, the Silithids did not invade. That tells me that perhaps night elves DO try to exert their powers over their surroundings, it's just that apparently they're rather pathetic about it. Or whatever, lol, it's just random speculation.

Yeah, vanity and self-importance are definitely there, too. And heh, you're right, it could be any of those! I'll go with 'every elf decides how much of an egomaniac he is, and views nature accordingly,' lawl. I've been thinking about what you said about magic being a natural force and while I have no idea if that's the case objectively, I think it makes a lot of sense if that's what high elves believe. Couple that with innate arrogance and it does paint a pretty accurate picture. What I'm thinking now is that my take on the rivalry between mages and rangers still makes sense, since each would see the other as inferior (and druid magi would see BOTH as inferior for choosing one force over the other!), but it'd still be kept under a very polite pretence of diplomacy. Until the Troll Wars, where shit became rad. Thoughts?

LMFAO! That shit's crazy funny, dude. It would have been for a MUCH more interesting history if the elves had been bent on sexing up the trolls when they founded Quel'Thalas. Though I think the 'sacred' thing is just an excuse for trolls. They're berserkers and cannibals, they probably try to bite your face off if you so much as cough in their vague direction.

[wanderingaddict]

pfft dude! they have ONE massive ziggurat, made of stone, that gets covered in vines and moss and plants AND ANIMALS! the trolls are just like, all buddy-buddy with them just fine! they don't care! it's like they just went and built the Ziggurat under them and the lions and bats and whatnot don't even care! the tauren though?? have you seen their fences! like, a bajillion plainstriders died to make the fence around crossroads, and don't even get me started about the forest they chopped down to make that dumb fence around their starting zone, just so their idiot kids don't run off the cliff! their individual huts may be low impact, but what's *around* those huts is like, a slaughterfest of nature!

and yeah, I know it's not the case objectively, but there's no reason to believe otherwise either (which to me was the entire value of the original druid-magi article, because that's pretty much the gist of what it said). I do kind of like the idea of the two sides having a vague aversion to each other (or at least, the leaders of the two sides). what with the archmages high in their ivory towers, valuing discourse on arcane knowledge, whereas the ranger-commanders exalt crawling through the woods and experiencing nature and combat first-hand or something. and their troops get caught in the middle, as is the way of things it's a neat idea, and delves into that societal change and division/unification stuff that I dig so much. this was fun dude!

now to write my reply to your story post.

[Shadowknight12]

Two, if you count Zul'Drak in Northrend! But yeah, I had completely forgotten about the pathetic fences tauren are so fond of (they're not even tall enough for humans, for tauren it must be like a knee-high coffee table to trip over). Ugh, talk about epic fail. Huh, look at that. Guess trolls are the most nature-loving race. That sounds... so weird to my ears, lawl.

Heh, agreed, I have to say I'm a fan of societal stuff in general. And cool, this was fun. I don't normally get to discuss lolore with someone who isn't a rabid Blizzard fanboy or a rabid Blizzard hater. Or who even KNOWS this stuff at all! Feel free to point out this kind of thing in the future if you want. It's awesome for me to consider things from another point of view.

Looking forward to it! :3

[wanderingaddict]

okay, Snight, I want you to do something for me. will you? this is very, very important. I need you to look at your right hand (I don't care if it's not your dominant one, look at your right hand). I want you to line up your fingers, and then raise it up, palm outward. then I want you strike yourself with the back of your hand, perhaps with enough force to leave a light bruise. I know you may be all like "PFFT ADDICT DO YOU THINK I"MA BRUISE THIS PRETTY FACE THIS IS HOW I EARN MA LIVIN’" to which I have to reply "I only do this because I care, Snight" and then if I were actually there I'd raise my pimp hand and do again.

guess why, Snight. go on, guess

if you said "Gee Addict, is it because I totally ignored everything you just said?" then good job! geez dude, I said I liked it! It’s hardly “lousy” you fool!

First off, there’s hardly any trick to making Aristan a blushing innocent, just to imply that it’s his first time. And I'm not saying that Rivandyr doesn’t need to enjoy his blowjob in order to imply that either- where you went way over the line is that Rivandyr is absolutely floored by Aristan’s expertness, rather than just really getting into/slash/being surprised and pulled along by Aristan’s own enthusiasm. I mean, there’s a lot to be said for an eager and willing, however untrained throat. Do you know what I mean? For Aristan, and for what you kind of what to do with him, I think, it would be so much easier to just emphasize that Riandyr’s enjoyment came from Aristan’s eager willingness, not so much the fact that Ari expertly handled his nuts. Like if Ari pulled too hard a couple times, scraped it between his teeth a couple times, gagged a little too much, but was so intense with his sucking and kissing and grasping that it more than made up for what he missed. And heck this is the first blowjob Rivandyr’s had in like, a hundred years right? The dude prolly thinks anything’ll do at this point, lawlz!

It’s not about being “cute” and “coy,” but just about the lead up being uncertain, about Ari needing to pull Rivandyr out of that slinky carapace he uses to keep his feelings (and other people) distant. It may come across as cute and coy as a result, but that’s just because it’s what we normally associate with being cute and coy. Aristan shyly, slyly using a couple kisses to cover the placing of his hands on Rivandyr’s crotch would certainly fit the bill, but it’s not the point of the scene, you know? He doesn’t need to be a hesitant, blushing virgin because that’s not really who or what he is. I don’t know how you see him, but I see him as eager and ready, there’s just that uncomfortable moment that all first-timers, but also the fact that he is clearly supplicating Rivandyr for sex is what makes him hesitant. It’s a power issue, one that he should totally be aware of given that Rivandyr rejected him so easily last time. And as for wanting to keep it emotional/intellectual, then dude this is the wrong story, period. Coating a sex scene in emotional and intellectual dialogue rarely works with just any couple- you have to have two people that stand strong alone, and honestly the story needs to be about something *other* than their relationship. Like about their journey, or the overarching events, or about a series of characters. WoaL is solely about Rivandyr and Aristan, not about anything else. I’m not saying it in a bad way, or that there’s not interesting things happening and going on, or that there aren’t other events and subplots. The main plot, the main focus of the story however is the two of them getting together and how that pans out. Not really the type of story that can pull off glazing a sex scene with a coat of intellectual candy without dampening its overall “oomph.”

And omg dude, seriously read what I type! Like, actually read it! Did I say “list cock size”? Did I say “tell me that aristan’s twelve inches! AROUND!” NO! there’s such a huge difference between getting a character’s personal thoughts and interspersing them with the occasional objectively descriptive comment and either just crudely saying “The elf’s fourteen-inch skinny dick was half the thickness of Aristan’s eight-incher but he didn’t mind” or just “gushing” or whatever about how massive and amazing Aristan’s cock is. Or, hell, making them “perfect” with six-pack abs and dangling balls and two long, excellent dicks.

What you like to do for the majority of your sex scenes is glide about with flowing, elegant descriptors. I mean, the troll scene in Taint, the satyr scene, the majority of the SCN scene, and again, here. They’re airy, beautiful and well-crafted dude. Lawlz, like, listen to the words I’m typing right here: I’m NOT saying they’re bad. Heh, k? NOT BAD. I’m saying that’s the definite theme in your writing so far. I think that works very well for what you have in mind as ideal- as part of that story I mentioned above, one where the sex is not the point of the story, where you want to get across that it was awesome, it was hot, but there’s no need to dwell or get caught up in the details. It works for some of the scenes in Taint. It could definitely work better for some characters, at certain times, than others (like big D, if he ever is coaxed out of his shell by someone he loves, then that would work super well because the sex could be fumbling and the whole point of it would *be* that emotional part, not act of sex itself).

Particular example- whatever line it is you have where you describe Aristan as stretched out, golden and muscled. That’s neither an objective descriptor, nor is it colored with Rivandyr’s thoughts (which can rock hard for conveying *why* a character is attractive and boneable too). There’s nothing specific about that line by itself, however. If anything it’s just as vague as not including it at all- it serves to remind us of two things: that Aristan is blonde, that he is muscled, and that’s it. How blond, how hairy, how muscled, none of that is conveyed. It is entirely upon the reader to fill in their own image, and like in my case, I glaze over it with the image of some Scottish broguish dude in front of a fireplace. It’s something that’s artful and flowing and works with the words around it, that serves as a means of rolling the eyes through the paragraph in a pleasing way, but doesn’t actually serve to make anything concrete. To bring the reader down to earth.

That’s why I suggested occasionally peppering your sex scenes with more specific examples. They don’t need, at all, to be things like “Aristan’s big dick flopped about like a third leg!” or “Aristan gaped in amazement at the beautiful, cum-filled balls that he pulled from Riandyr’s pants.” What they honestly should be are simple things that you are doing already- that is, towards the end of every sex scene you write, where I swear you can’t help but get caught up in the moment and just dive into those descriptors yourself. The draenei’s gaping hole, for instance, or the surprising amount of semen Rivandyr had to gulp down. That stuff right there? That’s GOLD dude! Just add things like that *throughout* the sex scenes, instead of only getting into them at the end. Subjective things, sure, but the whole point is that they powerfully convey the emotion of the scene. It doesn’t matter whether Aristan barely came enough to fill a bucket or a spoon, just that it was enough to catch Rivandyr offguard. It doesn’t matter how much Iraavar’s anus gaped open, or whether or not some of Drathir’s semen seeped out, but the point is that it *did*. The details are left up to the reader, but the reason the characters noticed, and their emotional reactions, are clear.

Honestly I think it’s an easy something you could do to really pull your scenes together. To grab the reader’s attention and *keep it* sooner, rather than later. I mean, with SCN the point that I actually sat up in my chair and paid attention was ‘cause Drathir fisted Iraavar (and it was good) and I can’t for the life of me remember anything about any descriptions at the start. I know they were in the Scryer’s Tier, but does that mean they were in a lush, marble, elven apartment? Or are Drathir’s quarters nothing but a few silk curtains draped about a ruined draenei hovel? And good god, their *ages* man! Is Iraavar grizzled and scarred and 25000 years old, while Drathir’s barely fifty and loving this domination? Or is it the other way around, and this embarrassed young Vindicator is teaching an older blood elf some brand new tricks? Hee, I’m going off on a tangent dude.

Anyways. Point is, your sex scenes- do you get what I mean? What I’m fumbling to explain about how you write them? Again, I’m not saying it’s bad, in fact I think it’s a very strong suit and something that keeps them from just being some bad, quickie sex when they’re honestly *not*. Just, on the other hand, they can sometimes (usually towards the start of them) drift about in the air a little too long, passing along without any hooks or solid points for the reader to snag on to. Hence the need for those solid comments to remind us of what we're reading, to keep the reader's mind focused on the physicality of these scenes. you an drift off into philosophical discussions all you want when you have a scene where one (or both) characters are hardly into it, or where the sex has become practically rote-enjoyment, or something, but not when it's Rivandyr's first time in years, and Aristan's first time period, and not when it's precisely about an old elf in the end of life falling in love again and a young human being swept off his feet.

Does that get towards what I’m trying to say?

And you need to learn what an author wanks over, lawlz, first off most authors are women, so wanking isn’t even the right term, and second off do you have *any* idea what women wank over? Well, for example, take Serronas’s story about that uke night elf and the Alpha. You know how the uke elf just looks at the Alpha and feels his vagina clench? Do you really, honestly think that she’s not wanking right as she writes that right there? dude if you squick about authors wanking over a hot character, you’ll be appalled when you finally start recognizing what the author’s really getting off on. And I can appreciate it when an elf bottoms (heck, my most popular story’s about just that!) but honestly, it’s so rarely well done and so terribly common to have a uke elf that unless it really stand out it’s just kinda like /yawn. Another lady-boy elf submits to the manlier [anything] because lord knows that no elf has a shred of masculinity anywhere in his body

Oh, and dude… how much I write is like, directly proportional to how close to perfection I think a story is. Honestly, the more effort I see a story need to be one of those “wow!” ones that needs to changes, no correction of plot or addition of scenes, the less I say (short of it reaching that “critical point” or whatever where it’s so close to perfection that all I can say is “great job!” and grin ). yeah, just wanted you to know that part too.

[ApolloImperium]

To contribute a thought: While I can't speak for all female authors, I know I don't. When I write, I write. Nothing more nothing less.

[wanderingaddict]

wanking in more of a figurative sense, I think, Apollo and not so much being like "grr!" at female authors, so much as "a lot of authors get off on different things, and not always what you expect." and, uh, I honestly can't deny that authors sometimes wank over their own characters, in the literal sense, from personal experience so...

[Shadowknight12]

BronxWench: Thank you for the review and the compliments! Heh, with praise like that, my ego might get too big for my house! I try to be as... I don't know how to say it... "unshallow" perhaps, if you'll allow me to fabricate a neologism, to set myself as far apart as possible from the people who just write stories to fantasise about attractive characters. So it makes me rather pleased you think it's poetic and evocative, even if I'm not aiming exactly for that (since I'm seriously terrible at poetry). Heh, glad you liked the characters. I definitely shot for complexity and originality with them.

Yeah, grammar and punctuation are my banes. Feel free to say as much as you want about that here or in the review (or a PM, why not), since I definitely listen to any concrit I get. The last part... well, I have the ending written and nothing else, heh. So it might take a while.

[BronxWench]

Like I said, it's minor, but one of those things that can occasionally jar the reader. (So saith the Grammar Bitch, who had this shit beaten into her at a young and impressionable age.)

In dialogue, if the attribution is not a completely separate sentence, the dialogue text should end with a comma right before the end quote, and the attribution should begin with a lower case letter. For example: "I can't believe you just said that," he snapped. The attribution really doesn't work as a standalone sentence. Did he bark that out, or flip out and pillage the town?

Obviously, there are times when you attribute dialogue without one of those he said/he replied/he retorted endless sequences that can drag on. In that case, the period before the end quote and initial cap on the new sentence is perfect.

Aside from that, poetic writing isn't necessarily poetry, but it is rich and complex and dense with imagery. That's a very good thing, imo, since writing should be a passionate thing. It should make you feel something, even if it's the urge to scream and heave the book out the window. If the reader doesn't react, it isn't working. You, gods, you get into your characters' heads, and you make me see them as flesh and blood, and you make me care about what happens next.

Writing shouldn't be a dying art, and when I read something that makes me read until the end, straight through, and be hungry for more, well...

[Shadowknight12]

Well, I'll be honest with you, English isn't my first language, and I've never been taught anything beyond the basics. Everything you see is the product of reading and imitating others, and authors/publishers are hardly unified in terms of punctuation. Sometimes I'd just wish there was a big list of rules I could check to ensure I'm doing things right. What you've mentioned about dialogue is a classic example of the type of conundrums I face when writing, that I have literally nobody to help me solve. If you know of any good websites that have compiled this sort of thing, I'd be forever in your debt.

Hah, well, I'm actually not really that passionate about writing (being passionate leads to being defensive, which leads to not taking concrit very well, something I really want to avoid). It's just something I have to get better at, so any kind of feedback is most welcome. Heh, well, thanks! I really enjoy creating characters (not so much the 'writing what happens when you put them together' bits), so I guess it shows in the writing? It's definitely my favourite part of the process.

[BronxWench]

Oh, gods, I am gobsmacked, seriously! I really had not considered that English was not your first language, and now I'm even more impressed by the quality of your writing. English is such a fucking bastard of a language to learn, and every rules has not only exceptions but outright contradictions. I'm a native speaker of the language (although I frequently claim to be fluent in both English and American), and I screw up.

This is a link to a site I use for my teengirl, who is much more proficient in texting than in actually writing, although I'm trying to get her to post some stuff on the Pit. I even offered to beta for her, which I rarely do. I'll proof for friends for grammar/spelling/mechanics, but I dislike trying to direct their writing because I'm terrified that I'll change their style too much. Every writer has a unique voice, and it shouldn't get lost.

Punctuation rules

Gods, above all, do NOT stop writing.

[Shadowknight12]

Hah, really? My English is just barely decent grammar cushioned by florid vocabulary! I thought you could spot the foreignness a mile away! But yeah, the contradictions and lack of solid, stable rules make English tricky. But at least it doesn't have a gazilion verb tenses or weird ideograms.

Oh hey! That's pretty awesome! Thanks for the link, I'll be putting it to good use! And heh, that's an original mother-daughter activity. Though I think you'll regret the beta offer when/if she starts getting into lemon.

Well, the day I can't take a piece of concrit is the day I'll stop writing, that's what I always say.