VotedforKodos

Yeah, that was where she came from. Although in this case, Enkidu is problematic for the same reasons as Gilgamesh, by which I mean throwing off the balance of the War. Gil is strong enough to be unfair, and Enkidu is basically Gil's equal, so...

Yeah. I don't remember off the top of my head anybody else showing up who has had the same kind of inherent ability that he has. Mostly, the other people showing up with abilities have been mages and martial artists who developed their abilities through training and study.

There are no others, The Gamer is his title and unique ability. It's specifically mentioned that people who have natural talents that are late bloomers (i.e., someone who has a supernatural ability that doesn't manifest when they're very young) tend to have broken abilities. And the only elemental that has shown up so far is the Lowest class, that probably could destroy a building, but not instantly. More like destabilizing it and making it collapse. Her abilities mostly get used for support, helping him move around and stuff while he hits them with Magic Arrows. Other note, in the series, he creates skills for just about everything he does, including Massage. So, you know, that's a thing.

At least in The Gamer, skills max out at level 99, but also can lead to developing different abilities at certain milestones. Stats haven't been shown to have any cap at all. To give an example, the protagonist in the original series has (with passive bonuses) an INT of 236.3 at level 53, because that's what he focused on. With the bonuses he got from that and passive skills, his MP regen was high enough to have certain active skills on perpetually, including having an elemental summoned. Because of that, it reached 99, and in the latest chapter, his "Lowest class elemental summon" evolved into "Low class elemental summon."

I mean, probably not to that extent, but Gilgamesh has been known to just wander off for little reason in the middle of a situation where he's already won. Look at UBW when he leaves Shirou, Rin, and Saber alive at the Einzbern castle even though killing them would have taken fairly minimal effort for him. It also depends who has him. For example, if Fem-Gil considers Saber her possession, there's no real problem with her having Shirou, because it's just her belongings staying together for easy care. But mostly it's just that I don't expect Gilgamesh to actually get involved immediately. I expect her to hang back until the mid-game at least, possibly late-game, by which point Shirou's Charisma will probably have leveled up to an obscene degree.

Same thing that stops Gilgamesh from curb stomping everything in every Grail War: ego. It's not suitable for the king to step forward to deal with such mongrels.

Potentially, the Einzberns just tell Illya, say "Here's what that kid your dad left you for is doing." Given there's more than 7 Masters in this case, and only 3 can be reliably assumed about (the 3 families), she might use it as a way to find the Masters, force Shirou at Heracles-point to get her information, originally with the full intention of killing him horribly later on. Then Charisma kicks in, and she winds up deciding that as his older sister, it's her right to keep him for as long as she likes, and do whatever she wants with him. After all, he has to make up for taking her father away, and just death isn't enough. He needs to spend his whole life begging her for forgiveness. @Warellis As far as the mud creatures, yeah, they look like people, maybe with some illusion magecraft to show actual appearance. Otherwise, they're just Grail mud dolls in that person's shape, with none of the physical traits (hair color, eye color, skin tone, etc.). So, like, one imitating Sakura would be distinct from one imitating Rin, just from bust size, but to actually sell the deception, it would require actual magic above and beyond the dolls. What happens if someone gets pulled in depends entirely on Dark Iri. If she wants them tortured to insanity or just carried somewhere, whatever. Although Shirou would have some level of protection from them, just from being able to see people's status.

It does if it means no one can stop her from taking him and keeping him. Standard tentacles. Grail mud could be considered fairly malleable, considering it makes Kirei's new heart and Gilgamesh's new body, so false bodies made in some person's image, that Angri can use as familiars. Considering how it normally screams death, violence, and evil in someone's head when they come in contact with it, turn it so it fills their heads with thoughts of sex and pleasure.

Eh...she sort of can. I mean, it wouldn't stretch my suspension of disbelief for any Caster that has adequate skill in magic and ready access to Ryuudou Temple to summon a Servant like Medea did. Granted, the fact that they've started making a lot of new Casters part of the "Heroic Spirit of Man" category, there's getting to be fewer and fewer who actually use magic. The time when Scathach does summon Servants is a point where it's actually the real her, alive and well. So you could maybe throw her in like that, but she'd be another game-breaker. Da Vinci could probably make some crazy stuff, given access to modern knowledge. You ever see some of the stuff the real Da Vinci wrote about in his notes? Pretty sure I remember it being said that, even though he lacked the materials, a lot of his designs were actually very sound.

Yeah, actually, come to think of it, there are kind of two Angra Mainyu's in this, aren't there?

Could always do it such that Luvia came to Fuyuki way early to get the lay of the land for the War, and since she and Rin are the only magi around (as far as they know), they're the only people they can really spar with using magecraft. And I would be a little hesitant on using Aoko, barring her only being around for a very short time, just because she throws off the balance of the whole situation, power-wise. Like, if she's around, there's really nobody in the cast other than Servants that can do much against her, and if she gets involved in the Grail War, whatever faction has her has a huge advantage. Plus it would probably distort character interactions and meetings, since her presence would probably draw attention from Rin and any other supernatural parties in the city, and if she's with Shirou, it would then draw attention to him and why she's around him. Although it could work as an omake, something like a bonus level to go with the video game metaphor. A school trip to a beach or hot spring resort or something, Aoko (or whoever you want to add without having to work them fully into the story) is there on a vacation or whatever, Shirou meets her, gets into whatever sexy situation, and boom. Maybe even a secret quest line of trips to various locations outside Fuyuki that always result in Shirou meeting new older ladies.

Sounds good. Then, are you going to move on to developing the backstories for the other imported characters you were planning on using, or more towards the Grail War characters?

Eh, since the backstory has already been rewritten as far as Kayneth and Sola-Ui are concerned, it's not like it'd be impossible to rewrite Kirei's backstory so his wife was still alive and around for Shirou to steal. Another mother/daughter threesome, too. Which actually reminds me and makes me curious about Rin's mother...

Well, if nothing else, that does simplify it. And that's basically what the Assassins in Zero and HF were there for, so you're in good company.

So, she summons an Assassin, then later on Zouken uses that Assassin to summon his own, leaving her without a Servant. And I assume that the Lancer/Bazett/Kirei situation is basically the same as canon, with Kirei stealing Lancer to use for himself? EDIT: And are you still working on developing for the characters you've decided on before figuring out any new Master/Servant pairs?

Then, from among Assassins that exist, I would suggest the same False Assassin from FSN, Sanson, Jekyll, or the Phantom of the Opera. Probably one of the latter 2, given Sola-Ui would probably be more inclined to summon a Western Servant. If Sola-Ui were going to be keeping her Assassin, I would have suggested Mata Hari, Carmilla, or Jack the Ripper. Would Zouken's summoning be restricted like in canon, where the only Assassin he should be able to summon is a Hassan, or could it summon a different Assassin?

So, similar to Kiara's Master, no Assassin we don't want to get sacrificed to summon a different Assassin. Got it.

Hmm...is it actually reliant on her touching the target? Because that makes it more balanced, she has a lot more trouble using it directly on other Servants since Casters are bad at physical stuff, so she can't make contact easily. Also, I don't think you ever got around to answering, Ichasennin. What is your intention with Assassin, since you have Sola-Ui and Zouken both listed as Master? Multiple Assassins, Zouken stealing Assassin from Sola-Ui, a Heaven's Feel type scenario where one Assassin isn't a proper Assassin class Servant and is used to summon another Assassin?

Well, an NP is usually the thing they're best known for, or their weapon. Since she's a magus, Morgan didn't have any noteworthy weapons, so probably something related to her actions, which were basically all things aimed at taking revenge on Arturia for being their father's favorite. At least in Type Moon, she's the one who set a trap that caused Arturia to lose Caliburn, as well as the person who sent Agravain, the knight who discovered Lancelot and Guinevere's affair, to Camelot. Plus everything about Mordred. Just about everything she did was all dedicated to bringing down Camelot and specifically Arturia, so her NP could be something about bringing down kings and kingdoms, or about inducing betrayal.

For Kiara, I would propose Astolfo's Master from Apocrypha, given she's a sadistic bitch who doesn't seem to have been given any redeeming qualities at all. As an alternate class for Medb...that's actually kind of tricky, given that the other classes I would try to default to would be Temptress and possibly Caster. As it is, her profile in Grand Order mentions that she "manufactures" soldiers, so maybe something like Summoner? Where her skills are all defined by her ability to summon others to battle for her. What is meant by "Assassin: ???? - Master: Sola-Ui Nuada-Re Sophia-Ri/Matou Zouken"? Is that calling for a similar situation to Heaven's Feel, where Zouken will summon an Assassin using Sola-Ui's Assassin as a catalyst, or that he'll take control of her Assassin, or what? For a voluptuous redheaded female mage for Morgan, I might suggest Nyx from Queen's Blade or the Sorceress from Dragon's Crown. Not that their characters matter, just that those are the two that popped to my mind for appearance. For other Servants and classes, maybe Brynhildr as Shielder, since she is traditionally considered a shieldmaiden. Jeanne as Ruler summoned by Caren as a representative of the Church to be neutral parties maintaining balance in the war. Attila as something like Destroyer, given her innate compulsion to kill people and destroy civilization. Drake, Nobunaga, or Mary Read and Anne Bonney as Gunner. Maybe Kiyohime as Beast, given her "turn into a dragon" thing, or Scathach as Beast or Saver with a "transcending the normal classes" reason. Possibly the version of Arturia that used Rhongomyniad instead of Excalibur as Alter Ego or something. Given how little information there is about the non-standard classes, you could probably fudge it almost any way you like. Other Masters, there's Luvia, Fiore, Gray, Manaka, Reika if you have her take the Servant after someone else summons it... I actually originally had the idea of giving Rin and Luvia Rama and Sita as Servants, because those two are cursed and can't be together at all, and I thought it would be funny to give them Servants that can't even fight each other, but this works as well. Maybe have Luvia summon the alternate Arturia to fuel the rivalry with Rin and Mordred? Or Gray, so you have a mother/father/daughter/AU father/descendant grouping. Manaka or Reika getting Attila for a "hey, let's just kill and destroy everything" pair. Fiore and Brynhildr, as a pair who is kind of reluctant to fight the War at all. Using your format for some suggestions: Ruler: Jeanne d'Arc - Master: Caren Ortensia Shielder: Brynhildr - Master: Fiore Forvedge Yggdmillennia Destroyer: Attila the Hun/Altera - Master: Sajyou Manaka/Rikudou Reika Alter Ego: Arturia Pendragon(alternate) - Master: Gray or Luviagelita Edelfeldt Monster: Scathach - Master: ???? Beast: Kiyohime - Master: ???? Summoner: Medb - Master: ????

Nah, I wasn't putting in that much effort to make them match up. And the summoning issue has been subject to multiple retcons. Originally it was "you can use a catalyst to have a better chance of summoning a related Heroic Spirit, but if you don't, you'll summon a Servant most suited to you." Better, because they could choose to refuse the summon. Then that got retconned into "every summoning had a catalyst," even though they don't say that anywhere else and even though Medusa was summoned by Sakura explicitly because of their similarities and accepted because she wanted to keep Sakura from becoming a monster like she had.

Oh, the entire canonical cast aside from EMIYA? So, the list of Servants should look more like 1. Medea 2. Medusa 3. Arturia 4. Mordred 5. Cu Chulainn 6. Hercules 7. EMIYA's replacement 8. Sasaki or Hassan(?) 9. Kiara Sessyouin(?) 10. ? 11. ? 12. ? 13. ? 14. ? 15. ? And for Masters 1. Shirou 2. Rin 3. Sakura(/Shinji?) 4. Illya 5. Bazett 6. ? 7. ? 8. ? 9. ? 10. ? 11. ? 12. ? 13. ? 14. ? 15. ? ....and in hindsight, that's kind of it from canon for regular Masters, since you said Medea will be Shirou's main Servant, unless you intend for him to wind up picking her up like Kuzuki and also summoning someone else. In which case, Atram Galiast joins the list briefly. The listing gets convoluted with Medea killing her first Master and summoning Assassin, Kotomine taking Lancer, and Sakura giving Rider up to Shinji. Plus Zouken is always lurking...

By the time you get to it, will you want/need any help figuring out additional Masters or Servants? I made an assumption that you're keeping at least the female canon FSN Masters, but here's what there is of the roster from what you've said in the thread: Masters 1. Shirou 2. Rin 3. Sakura 4. Illya 5. Bazett(?) 6. Disposable Male A 7. ? 8. ? 9. ? 10. ? 11. ? 12. ? 13. ? 14. ? 15. ? Servants 1. Medea 2. Medusa 3. Arturia 4. Mordred 5. Kiara Sessyouin(?) 6. Disposable Servant A 7. ? 8. ? 9. ? 10. ? 11. ? 12. ? 13. ? 14. ? 15. ?

I'm curious, have you already decided about what Masters, Servant classes, and Servants you're planning on using? You said you were planning on 15 Master/Servant pairs, right?

Shirou not complaining about the sex he was getting was also several years older and in a more or less equal relationship with the females in question. This Shirou is at the very least younger, and likely having much less exposure to even the idea of sex, on top of the relationships being with women who are older and, depending on the individual, in some sort of position of authority relative to him. But not fighting back...as strong as Shirou can get with the Gamer abilities (just pure physical STR), fighting back would be dangerous for them, and he'd want to avoid that.