Why Don't Women Seem To Realize...

[DarkInuLord]

That men have feelings too?

(If anyone is offended by this rant, don't take it personally or directed towards an entire gender, this isn't a sexist attack on anyone as a whole, all comments are directed at the people that DO fall into that group. I do apologize if I offend anyone though.)

I've been dating the same woman for almost a year now, and I'm incredibly careful with things I say, and how I word them. I try my hardest not to let something come out the wrong way, I know how women are and the smallest comment can make one flip out on you. But at the same time, women don't tend to notice that what they say can have a negative affect on a man as well. We aren't all heartless bastards like some of you think.

I love my girlfriend to death, and this isn't to 'bash' her, more like venting some depression because I know if I bring it up to her it will come out wrong.

About two nights ago, she met a complete stranger, he invited her into his house and started to try and 'woo' her. (Not her words.) He was supposedly an 'artist' and wanted her to be his next masterpiece, so he had her lay on a big block of wood and he traced her, these are her exact words on what happened. "Well he said that it was hard to trace the beauty of my body with my shirt on, so he took his shirt off so I would be more comfortable with taking mine off." so she let the guy trace her for an hour with her shirt off. I told her the guy was probably a rapist and she's lucky her mother called, and this is what really got to me, she said "It just wasn't creepy at all, and felt like a relationship."... Do women not understand that talking about another man like that is practically devastating? I mean... We've been in a real relationship for almost a year, and if I even made a slight accidental hint at her taking off her shirt, she would freak out and tell me it was too soon, yet for a total stranger she'll do it?

Tonight, we had a discussion. She was telling me how she overheard girls talking about their boyfriends, and the thought of love made her sick. I just... Don't understand how that can be, if she's been telling me she loves me for the last year. I was trying to explain to her in as cautious a way as I could that it's normal to feel strange when other people are talking about love, and that it doesn't mean love makes her sick, and even after hours of that, when we were saying goodnight she didn't say "I love you too.". Normally that would have just made me frown, but after that conversation I just got depressed. I mean, if I were to go a whole day without telling her I love her, she would think I was going to break up with her... But she can go a week if she wants, and it's just "I need me time."...

I've been cheated on before, by a woman I had been friends with for almost three years before we started going dating. For the few months we dated, the entire time she was breathing down my neck, making sure I wouldn't do something behind HER back and then turns around when I'm not looking and sleeps with another guy, then comes back the next day and kisses me on the lips. When I found out about it and confronted her, do you know what she said? "It's alright if the girl does it."... What, the hell? Have womens in their 40's and 50's that have daughters been spoon feeding them this feminist bullshit for the past 20 something years? I'm sorry if this offends any of you, I know that 75% of the people on this site are women, but what the hell is with this?

Ugh... I'm going to go... Draw something, or... Something.

[cu-kid9]

Okay, before I say anything to respond to this rant, I just want to make sure that you know that I'm not in any way trying to "bash" your girlfriend either -I don't know her, I'm just going on what you've said and my experience with girls...well, and being a girl :clap:

...I know how women are and the smallest comment can make one flip out on you.

Well, that depends on the girl. Personally, I think it's bull that guys feel they need to walk on eggshells when talking to girls. Unless something is said intentionally to hurt my feelings, I can take just about anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty as the next girl at doing that whole take something the wrong way, twist it around until it doesn't even come close to resembling what it was supposed to -but I usually do that in fun. In my opinion, if you have to think about everything you say -two, three times over- before you open your mouth to a girl you're seeing, it just isn't worth it. That's not being overly-sensitive, that's just flipping out for the sake of flipping out (and probably for attention).

This whole thing about her going over to a stranger's house and taking her shirt off sounds questionable to me. If it had been a friend, I probably wouldn't have even responded to this. But the whole thing is too weird. I mean, I wouldn't have gone into someone's place that I didn't know by myself -especially not a guy's place being a girl...and if, in some moment of utter and complete insanity, I did, there's no way in hell he could have convinced me to take my shirt off if I had a boyfriend -I mean, short of drugging me or clobbering me over the head. I know artist types, I've been one and hung out with them my entire life and, while sometimes they come off as a little strange (no offense ), they're mostly harmless. But this whole "it's hard to trace the beauty of your body with your shirt on" crap is just...crap. Who says that? Furthermore, who falls for it? Oh, and the "it felt like a relationship" part? Yeah, that's crap too. She just met the guy, how can she have a relationship with him? And what kind of "relationship?" Like a friends thing? No offense, but it's girls who do and say things like that who give girls a bad name.

The fact that she told you about going to the guy's place is cool. I mean, at least she didn't lie about it. But the fact that she gave you as much detail as she did, and wasn't creeped out by anything (the "relationship" thing really kills me...you don't even know how absolutely dumbfounded I am by that), means one of two things: A) she is just being sincerely honest with you and wants you to know what happened, or (and this, I think, is more likely since I know girls pull this shit all the time) B.) she wants to make you jealous. Because, the reality of it is, we know you guys aren't heartless bastards -in fact, we're very aware of the fact that you have hearts. And some girls will do and say whatever they can to rip it out and do little jigs all over it. Men may not be heartless bastards, but some girls sure are ruthless bitches.

I guess I should ask how old this girl is before I continue, but sometimes it doesn't matter. Not to be harsh against my own sex, but some girls don't outgrow what I view as a high school attitude, where you say you love someone because it's what you're supposed to say. It doesn't matter if you mean it, or really know what love is. You say it so that, when asked, you can say, "Oh, Johnny-boy and I are so in love." Besides, who feels sick (or strange, even) when other people talk about how in love they are with their significant others? I don't. I'm happy for people who are in love. It's a great thing, so why would anyone look down on it?

Oh, and not all mother's spoon feed their daughters feminist bullshit. When I moved away to college, I kept a long distance relationship with my boyfriend at the time...and all the while, my friends back home were making bets on how long it would be before I cheated on him. While it was tempting, I never did. I've been cheated on before, too, and I can't think of anything more cruel you could do to a person you supposedly care about than that.

Now, since you've made me go on a rant of my own and this is officially my longest post here, I'm going to shut up and go play Tetris or something else equally time-consuming that will help me put off the writing I should be doing.

[RikuDrak]

Well, to be honest, I feel cu-kid9 basically said it all. I agree and that's probably close to what I would have said.

I'm an artist type and even I find it wierd that she'd go into a stranger's house and take off her shirt for a cheap line like that. I don't even begin to comprehend about it "feeling like a relationship." I never felt relationships were taking your shirt off for a stranger and having them stare, and it's quite a silly thing to say if she wants you to feel guilty about how you treat her or how your relationship is going.

Unfortunately a fair amount of females are manipulative bitches that get off on making their partner feel horrible.

That or, like my mother, she's creating some drama soap opera in her head about real life because she's unhappy with a normal or partially normal life.

[DarkInuLord]

Well, to the age comment... I'm just going to say she's younger than me, and leave it at that. But that guy was 26 (A lot older than us.) All I know is she wasn't like this before, and now, out of the blue, 10 months into dating these things start t happen.

Sigh.... I'm going to go vent by beating all of the high scores in the arcade...

[Velvet D Coolette]

I can only really second RituDrak - some women really let the side down by being like that. I'm sorry you've found yourself with one. I think it's part of the human condition anyway to be selfish and decide on one rule for me, another for you. But women, who generally have a gift for empathy, misuse it in the most appalling way to get into your head and hurt you. Who'd have thought that empathy could have a dark side?

My mum does similar things and, frankly, she can shove her relationship with me. Too bad I work for her... But anyway, look after yourself, whatever that entails, because she's showing a blatant lack of concern for your feelings.

[Kanashii]

Now you get some "big sister" advice. Only because you are about as young as my son. This girlfriend (and no disrespect intended for your GF) is not the average "Jane" so to speak.

Sounds like she is VERY young, and very immature and maybe doesn't even realize what SHE wants (let alone you). I've been married for nearly 24 years. (Got married at 19) and I would never snap at my partner if he said something, nor would I ever go inside someone house and ah..."disrobe" unless it was a doctor. Ya know? (and then not in their house!)

You need to really think where you want this relationship with her to go, ya know? Just talking may not be enough. Maybe SHE isn't ready for a 'steady committment' and maybe you aren't either. Maybe you both need to step back from the relationship(??) and I think you need to honestly...Stop walking on eggshells and treating her like a princess! Good God man! She's a woman, not a princess. If she can't be your BEST FRIEND first above anything else...than it will never work.

My husband and I are VERY opposite in personalities and likes and what not. But we are above all BEST FRIENDS, best mates...We can TALK about anything. Sports, shite, you know. I also give him the same RESPECT I would want afforded to me. Sounds like she (your GF) isn't doing this.

Now believe me, I'm not trying to say "Do this" or "Do that"...Hell, I was 16, 17, 19 once...Before I met my husband I was ah...(putting this politely) very ACTIVE and enjoyed a wonderful sex life with many partners. I had actually had two other men propose marriage to me and I politely declined them because I knew in my heart they were not someone I could grow OLD with...Ya know??? Sounds romantic, sounds corney...but ask yourself. Wouldn't you want someone who will respect your feelings, be a best friend and be there for you when your say 89 as well. Someone you can TRUST in mind, and heart? If you can't TRUST someone now, marriage is never going to change that.

I have seen sooooooo many of my friend end up in divorce simply because they thought "marriage" or a "family" (children) would change the other person. It won't.

You sound like a very, very polite, romantic and heartfelt young man. I hope you truly find someone out there who is worth that. (And there is!) there are women out there that are the complete opposite of your GF, who will love you, respect you, make you laugh, never DREAM of hurting you and would love even a moment of your time.

Stuff to consider. Whatever your decisions, you need to have a serious talk with Girlfriend and explain a few things and above all BOTH of you need to be brutally honest with what you want in this relationship. If it can't be met, move on.

Best of luck in whatever you do.

[DarkInuLord]

Thanks for the replies, and I'm glad people are taking it seriously.

Well first, it's not like she's been doing this throughout our entire relationship... I mean, I truly thought that she was the girl I wanted to spend my life with. We made each other laugh, we share almost all of our interests besides maybe the fact that I can't stand Kingdom Hearts. We were there for each other, like last summer, when her uncle died I stayed up with her until almost six in the morning when she calmed down and stopped crying. Or just a few weeks ago, when things finally got to me... The stress of the move, fighting with friends, parents, Christmas, all of that, and I broke down... She was there for me too. I don't know what it is, she just seems to have... Changed in the last couple weeks.

She wasn't the one that beat the whole walking on egg shells thing into me, that was my ex, THAT girlfriend had blown up on me so many times I lost count, for a simple comment like "Am I going to catch something?" When she coughed on me, she blew up on me assuming for some incredibly odd reason that I meant she had AIDS or something. That's why I'm so cautious, really.

Let's see... We knew each other for about three years before we started to date, so it's not like I didn't know what kind of a person she was, she's always been so... I don't know, she was just everything I ever wanted, she was nice, smart, funny, she's a great artist and has a beautiful voice, and loves animals. Hell, she even shares my anime obsession, though her's actually goes a little further than mine (She buys every fan item she can get her hands on.) But in these last couple of weeks, she's just not herself, like something is bothering her.

We've also had so many serious discussions about our relationship I can't remember them all. We even had the discussion about me 'smothering' her with love, so I backed off with it, stopped telling her I love her 20 times a day, so on. Ack, I don't know where I'm going with this one...

I don't know what it is... Maybe I was just brought up wrong, I mean, I had a pretty fucked up child hood, I'm not saying it's worse than the next person's, but there's just certain things a six year old shouldn't have to see or deal with.

I even acknowledge the fact that I'm desperately trying to earn affection from the person I love, but no matter how hard I try it seems to be just out of my reach... I just don't know any more...

I'm going to go beat more highscores in the arcade, again...

[Guest Jaxxy]

I don't know what it is... Maybe I was just brought up wrong

I just can't help but think this is Not You. It's her, and it makes me sad (outraged, even) to see you damning yourself due to someone else's game-playing and/or inability to be frank. I don't know specifically why she's doing what she's doing, but I can tell you is what would be up if I were acting this way. I'd be trying to bait you into... something.

Whether she's feeling truly malicious -- and this doesn't mean she doesn't love you! we frequently (even purposefully) hurt the ones we love -- or she's (you are right, insensitively, even if subconsciously) seeking a certain reaction out of you (a display of jealousy to prove your love or "masculinity" to her, your completion of a certain task for her or buying her something, who knows?), I couldn't tell you. But you describe someone that "was" wonderful, who's acting more or less like a stranger, and we can knock that much out of the equation -- unless she's been recently abducted by aliens, she's not really "changed", if the time period's been as short as you say it has. She's doing something.

If that was my behavior, I'd certainly be up to something. I'd be manipulating you... or, possibly, trying to drive you away (which could be a "leave me alone" deal, or just as easily, a cry for more closeness). Think. Maybe you can remember what she wants already; perhaps she already told you, and it's something specific that's slipped your mind. If you don't come up with anything you might just have to ask her. Tell her, "No more games, you are hurting me badly." Cause she is.

Maybe she's ready to have sex and she wants you to be "forceful" and "the man" about it so she doesn't feel guilty when and if it happens...?

The other possibility I can come up with at the moment is that someone else has caught her eye -- which could turn out to be nothing, even if the pain that thought conjures seems overwhelming. Consider it, it could be harmless and temporary, and it may also be they key to the end of your misery.

Yeah, it's just time for you to be honest with yourself as well as your lady friend. Soonest begun is soonest done, sez I!

[DarkInuLord]

Maybe you can remember what she wants already; perhaps she already told you, and it's something specific that's slipped your mind.

Well there shouldn't be anything, in fact she's told me strictly to not buy her things, or give her gifts.

think.gif Maybe she's ready to have sex and she wants you to be "forceful" and "the man" about it so she doesn't feel guilty when and if it happens...?

That's a definite no.

I will truly, TRULY never understand women, ever. She logged onto MSN today and caught me completely off guard.

:: Edit, spoiler tags removed :: Spoiler tags on this forum suck.

~.:.~Wouldn't you like, to be older and married. with me?.~.:.~ says:

'Afternoon, how was your day?

Winter's Warmth says:

good.

Winter's Warmth says:

*hugs*

~.:.~Wouldn't you like, to be older and married. with me?.~.:.~ says:

:: Is hugged. o.o ::

~.:.~Wouldn't you like, to be older and married. with me?.~.:.~ says:

Um, everything alright? That was so not like you.

~.:.~Wouldn't you like, to be older and married. with me?.~.:.~ says:

:: Hugs back ::

Winter's Warmth says:

I....Missed you.

She seems to be back to her normal happy self... I swear to god, if this was PMS or something I'm going to kick myself. >_>

Let's just see how the next few weeks go, shall we? I'll keep you all updated; On the next episode of "Dark's Love Life"

And before I even finish my post, this is brought up again...

Winter's Warmth says:

I think that..experience with Garrett (the artist one who traced me)

Winter's Warmth says:

showed me that i'm not really shy =/

Winter's Warmth says:

damn.

Well, it was worth hoping.

Edited January 9, 2008 by DarkInuLord

[Guest Zyx]

Dear god this thread is long... I was going to read it all up I ended up reading only six posts or something. Just some general advice concerning women.

"Every broken man comes to understand that he'll never find paradise"

That's pretty much what I wanted to say. Life's a bitch and you get used to it

[DarkInuLord]

Well yes, I am aware that life is a bitch and then you die. That's my old motto. =/

[JenCarpeDiem]

It kind of looks like she's just trying to get a rise out of you - some sort of big dramatic reaction that will reaffirm your affection and possession towards her. I used to do it to my boyfriend (live-in fiance now!) when we were online-only and I was going through some deep personal issues.

[DarkInuLord]

But the thing is, we had a two hour serious talk about how I was TOO possessive and jealous and all that...

[Lore]

Wow.. o.o After reading all of that I just can't see this relationship going anywhere.. You're obviously a great guy, but I know exactly the problem you're going through. Young couple, one devoted and the other.. none too responsive? I'm not sure how to describe the fairer of our parties, but I can tell you mine is ending pretty sourly.

I walked on eggshells a lot too and did my best to keep from ticking them off, but they never returned the favor and would purposely go on about things that bothered me. I ended up realizing how selfish they were and that, in the long run, it just wasn't going to last even if we said it was. When someone's like that, they're just not ready to commit.

As for her taking her shirt off at that stranger's house.. x_X; Wtf? I do hope that girl is gorgeous to make up for the lack of common sense. I'm sorry to be mean but what sort of person with any common sense to their name lets the artist line be fed to them? Much less take off their shirt!

[JenCarpeDiem]

Wow, okay, I really don't know what to say then! It sounds like a horrible situation. Perhaps she LIKES that you're too possessive - but then again, perhaps she's proving that she doesn't have to honour any sort of commitment and can still do whatever she wants, and wants you to react to that. I don't know. It sounds like a really messed up situation, but it does just sound like you two need to have a serious talk about the state of your relationship. ):

[DarkInuLord]

As for her taking her shirt off at that stranger's house.. x_X;

:: Heavy sigh :: My ex once flashed an entire park, on purpose. And not a quick flash either, she called for attention and then did it. Also, not like a theme park, a community park full of little kids. But then she cheated on my with a random Mexican guy who bought her cigarettes (We were under 18) and she got some STD, I don't remember which... Oh, recent news tells me she's also dating a guy who raped my best friend.

Anyways, the way I see it, my current girlfriend is 100x better than any previous girlfriend I've had, but they've all beaten it into me so badly that I need to be cautious and 'walk on egg shells' around them that I'm not really being... 'Me' around my girlfriend.

[Lore]

Do you really want to be with someone that doesn't even love or appreciate you for being the real you? :c

[Shinju]

About two nights ago, she met a complete stranger, he invited her into his house and started to try and 'woo' her. (Not her words.) He was supposedly an 'artist' and wanted her to be his next masterpiece, so he had her lay on a big block of wood and he traced her, these are her exact words on what happened. "Well he said that it was hard to trace the beauty of my body with my shirt on, so he took his shirt off so I would be more comfortable with taking mine off." so she let the guy trace her for an hour with her shirt off. I told her the guy was probably a rapist and she's lucky her mother called, and this is what really got to me, she said "It just wasn't creepy at all, and felt like a relationship."... Do women not understand that talking about another man like that is practically devastating? I mean... We've been in a real relationship for almost a year, and if I even made a slight accidental hint at her taking off her shirt, she would freak out and tell me it was too soon, yet for a total stranger she'll do it?

First off, I don't mean to bash your girlfriend. But you need to hear this.

I have to tell you, that she would go into a stranger's house and take off her shirt is unacceptable relationship behavior. No, I mean REALLY unacceptable, I really don't think you quite grasp the unacceptableness of such an action. I mean, it's not like she had an undershirt on, right? Besides all that, being a girl and going into a stranger's house and taking off your shirt is not only unacceptable, but stupid and foolish. I'm going to venture that she is young. Very young. 18 perhaps? 19? Less? For all she knows that man could have jumped on her. Doing such things shows such a complete lack of regard for personal safety that I feel it may indicate that she is very depressed and desperate for relief of circumstances she finds unbearable. Has something traumatic happened to her recently? Because it sounds as if she is not only questioning life, but everything she is as well.

Second of all she obviously has no idea that any decent guy who has reached age 26 does not ask teenage girls to come into his apartment and take off their shirts, for art or otherwise. She is not mature enough to recognize this as the pickup that it is and if she does she's immature enough to think it's cute.

I also want to add that if I were in a serious, committed, manogomus relationship with a guy, if he went into some random chick's house ands took off his shirt for her her, something like that would be grounds for instant breakup or at least serious separation.

Now would I, a single woman in her mid twenty's go into a random stranger's house and take off my shirt? Yeah, probably. But you must realize that this is because I have a serious slutty side which stems from extreme emotional and psychological issues. Normal, rational, well adjusted people don't do that sort of thing. When I was younger, rational and semi-normal I would have blanched at something like that.

Tonight, we had a discussion. She was telling me how she overheard girls talking about their boyfriends, and the thought of love made her sick. I just... Don't understand how that can be, if she's been telling me she loves me for the last year. I was trying to explain to her in as cautious a way as I could that it's normal to feel strange when other people are talking about love, and that it doesn't mean love makes her sick, and even after hours of that, when we were saying goodnight she didn't say "I love you too.". Normally that would have just made me frown, but after that conversation I just got depressed. I mean, if I were to go a whole day without telling her I love her, she would think I was going to break up with her... But she can go a week if she wants, and it's just "I need me time."...

This sounds to me as if she is disinterested in you and may want to see other guys, another indication of her shirtless stranger rendezvous. Although, I'll be quite honest, she may not know what she wants and if you break up with her and leave her to find her way and give her some space, she will probably call you within the week begging for you back. This is because most women are creatures strictly ruled by emotion which changes from hour to hour. And younger women are not only emotional, but confused as well. Trust me, we fuck around with men's heads because we ourselves are enigmatic emotional roller coasters. Common sense only prevails years later when we are able to look back on our actions without the bias of emotion.

I'm not at all saying your girl is a bad person, she's just a chick. Most of us chicks are like that, kudos to anyone who isn't.

Oh well. I wish you, your girlfriend and your relationship all the best. You sound very nice, which is a rare thing now a days and I hope things go well for you and I hope you never lose your niceness. I lost mine, and I can tell you it's not really something you ever really recover.

[DarkInuLord]

Has something traumatic happened to her recently?

Spring break marks the first year anniversary of when her uncle died, and those two were really close, she's been getting sort of depressed about it recently, I think that may have caused some of the behavior changes to be honest, but that's not an excuse for taking off her shirt at that older guy's house, but she did have a bra on, not like she was completely naked or anything...

Update: Today went fantastic, we talked for over three hours on the phone and laughed the entire time, my jaw still hurts.

I found out one of her friends doesn't like me, and might have been putting ideas into her head that made her sort of hesitant about me, and that's for the not saying "I love you too." part. Because tonight when we said goodnight on the phone, she actually made me go 'Awwwww.' at the tone of her voice when she said "I love you so much."

She's still not excused for taking her shirt off for that guy. =_= She won't be either, I'm going to store it for later viewing.

So far I'm going to tell myself I overreacted and this was just a combination of depression from the anniversary of her uncle's death, and possibly PMS.

Hell, today she even let me make perverted jokes and she just laughed with me. Though the first one I was nervous, it got quiet for like 2-3 seconds after, then she couldn't stop from laughing at it.

Her: "You're totally my bitch."

Me: "Na uh, that's bullshit."

Her: "Swearing? You bad boy."

Me: "Mmm... Wanna spank me?"

That's when it got really quiet... Oh, we had so much fun last night.

Still, I'm going to keep everything you all have said in mind... But the thing is, I TRULY do love her, with all of my heart, I couldn't bare to 'dump' her, even if the chance of her going to another guy isn't too high, I couldn't do it.

I found that picture today, I think it best describes what I mean.

Goodnight.

[cu-kid9]

So far I'm going to tell myself I overreacted...

Okay, whoa...what? Are you saying that you overreacted to her going into some strange dude's house and taking her shirt off (oh, and it doesn't matter if she still had her bra on, btw. She still partially disrobed for a stranger)? How are you overreacting? Really, the only time this should ever be acceptable is during A.) Mardi Gras, B.) around you, or C.) in a life-drawing class (a legitimate life-drawing class). Whatever her emotional reasons for doing so, this act of...whatever it was, isn't acceptable relationship behavior, as Shinju said, and you shouldn't think it is.

I may have missed this somewhere in the thread, but have you even told her how much this hurt you? I mean, if the situation were reversed, and you did something like this, what would she do? Probably freak (I'm not saying she would, but I think I would). It's all well and good to cater to her emotions and to make sure that she's happy, but wasn't the whole point of this thread to recognize that you have feelings too? You are obviously emotionally invested in this relationship and that's not a bad thing. And obviously you love her and care about her. I don't think that an incident like this is enough to warrant a breakup, but I think that something should be said about it. This isn't a jealousy/possessiveness issue -this is much more serious than that. Not only did she show a considerable lack of concern for her own well-being, but she showed the same lack of concern for your feelings.

Yeah, okay, so you say something about it and she yells at you, freaks out, whatever...there's only a 50/50 chance she'll do that, right? If she really loves you, she'll be willing to talk about this -and I mean talk, no shouting, no emotional bullshit like tears or anything like that, but truly sit down and maturely talk about it. The point is that you have to make her aware of the things she does that you feel are inappropriate, and encourage her to do the same to you. My parents have been married for almost twenty years and they've only fought (I mean, all-out shouting matches) maybe a handful of times. Part of it may be just because they're a great couple, but I also think it's because they take the time to talk things out, reasonably, rationally, and maturely.

You're one-half of a whole in this relationship -it isn't all about what makes her happy, it's about what makes you happy, too. If being with her makes you happy, great. But there are going to be snags and bumps in the road and, unless you address the issues and then move on, you're just going to let them fester. Again as Shinju said, you sound nice, but don't allow that niceness to let people walk all over you.

[DarkInuLord]

We did talk about it, and she said she was sorry and it would never happen again. She said she didn't know it would hurt me, since I'm an artist. (She still thinks that sick fuck was really an artist.)

I explained everything to her, a lot was accomplished, she even tells me how much she loves me... Twice as much as she used to.

You're one-half of a whole in this relationship -it isn't all about what makes her happy, it's about what makes you happy, too.

But... I'm happy when I can make her happy...

[Lore]

Well, I still think you're totally bonkers for putting up with a girl like her, Dark. 0: I don't know you or her, but I know her type. All I can say is while I can say I hope things work out.. xD I don't really want them to. It'll only ever be half fixed with her and she'll be the only one getting anything out of the relationship while you keep telling yourself ' I'm happy if she's happy. ' I know that feeling from experience.

*pats* c: Hopefully when you realize what's going on, you won't take it as badly as I did.

[EveKnight75]

There's something very wrong with the "shirt off" scenario, but I don't need to re-hash it too much because everyone else has already done it (the re-hashing, not the "too much")

From what you're telling me, there are several things that I'm going to assume. None are truly meant to offend.

First of all, I don't think it's about a lack of common sense. You've known her for three years before you dated her. If she lacked common sense, you'd know it.

Perhaps part of the problem is that you may come off as lacking assertiveness. It's great that you want to do everything in her power to make her happy. Do you have any idea what I'd do for a partner like that?

Being supportive doesn't necessarily mean letting your partner walk all over you. That's what she seems to be doing. If she truly had an interest in art, she'd know more about the artistic type at this point. Barring that, she should know enough to ask for the artist's credentials before making any decisions. That's part of common sense.

I understand female liberation. I agree that a woman should have the right to make this type of choice without her partner's express permission. Saying that, I don't believe that anyone, man or woman, should exercise that right to the fullest immediately. If she thought that you'd be OK with it, "being the artistic type and all", she would've left, discussed it with you, then go back with her own final decision. The fact that she didn't is a red flag. It's an act of total emotional disregard.

May I add something a bit more personal? I'm bisexual - I've dated women before, and I've met her type. They're always the same. It's not exactly about you being a guy. They do whatever they feel like, inform you as an afterthought, then complain that you're the one being insensitive. The clincher: "If you really love me, you'll support me."

It's a classic sign of domestic control. When a woman controls her partner, she doesn't resort to the physical - she resorts to her wiles and twists the concept of feminism to use as a shield, marring the reputation of strong women everywhere in the process.

For example, I wouldn't push anyone to out themselves to their parents. But if I'm your partner, you have to let me in on the little fact before I meet them. If you have a fake boyfriend, it'd be nice to meet him, but that's totally your call. I trust you. If you choose to go beyond kissing or boyfriend status with said guy, you definitely need to make sure I'm fine with it before you do it. I refuse to date an engaged woman. The same concept applies to any third partner on any side of the relationship no matter who I'm dating, be it man or woman.

It's all about agreed-upon degrees of acceptance. If she made it clear that she models for artists and told you that she may be called upon to go into various states of undress for the sake of it, and all this before she started this particular assignment, she wouldn't be at fault. Because she hadn't, and because this isn't typically acceptable behavior in a healthy relationship, she is at fault. And I don't like to assign fault.

If you want to fix this, don't stand for it. The question I've asked is one that should bother both of you. "If you truly believed that I'd be OK with it, why didn't you let me know before you did it? Or didn't you have your phone with you?" There's something to be said for trust, but there's something to be said for initial instincts as well, especially the ones that persist.

My advice: take a break from your relationship and try to evaluate things without letting your feelings get in the way. Constant discussion may fix this one issue (very likely to her primary satisfaction rather than yours), but I don't think it'll prevent similar episodes in the future. I know you said she's your friend, but "friend" and "(boy/girl)friend" are two different roles and it's not unusual for the same person to act very differently in each role.

[DarkInuLord]

I finished writing this post, and felt that it warranted a soft purple color. >>

Well, to be perfectly honest here about everything, I'm first going to start by telling you all... She's over two years younger than me, and if you've checked my profile and seen my age, you'll know why I was hesitating to say, but seeing as how age of consent laws are different in every state... And the fact that we have her parents approval, age shouldn't be a problem.

That out of the way... She's still in highschool, and she is a bit naive. I'm her first serious boyfriend (I think I mentioned that), and it has been great, there was never a problem with her trying to 'walk all over me', I really don't think she's trying to, either.

There was only two major incidents, the rest were tiny things, like when she wanted to cut her hair and I disagreed... I really don't know how to explain that one, but I said something wrong and she was angry at me for a day, but the next day we were back to normal.

The first major incident wasn't even her fault. She was at her best friend's birthday party (A girl) and her friend brought her somewhere alone (This was right after we started dating, so it's sort of hard to remember it all.). Her friend had forced a kiss on her, with tongue and everything. She was apologizing to me all night, and she was crying. I didn't, and still don't blame her at all for this, but it was a problem for her because... Well... It was her first kiss, and she had told me she wanted to wait until we dated for a little while, and she was crushed that her best friend had stolen it. They had been friends for almost their whole lives and this almost ruined the friendship, she was 'different' for a couple weeks after that, with good reason.

The second, was this recent one. I don't know what possessed her to do it, nor do I think I ever will know, but I also will never know if she told me the entire story, maybe he had shown her some type of proof that he was a 'real' certified artist, like a diploma or something, I don't know.

And now that you know her age, it helps explain a little bit of why I was mainly WORRIED about her and not angry. The man was 26 years old, I guess I shouldn't judge him too harshly for it, since I'm above eighteen as well... But while she was telling me about it all I could think about is that he was some sick pedophile freak, and how glad I was that mom called her when she did, and got her out of there.

Don't think I'm defending her, or trying to say what she did was alright, that's not what this is about, but I really trust her judgment and maybe the guy was legit, we'll never know.

I have really read through and taken everything that you guys have said to heart, you're all older and wiser after all, and women no less, so I should listen. But... I'm going to give her another chance, before I try anything drastic like 'taking a break'. If ANYTHING like this happens again, I will sit her down and tell her that I need time to just think about everything, if she really does love me back like I love her, she'll accept that and wait for me to sort my feelings about the situation.

[EveKnight75]

I speak on behalf of the young when I say this.

I'm 20, I've dated younger people, and will continue to date younger people. Right now, I hold the window at 5 years, but that can change in the future. Being a teenager doesn't exactly mean that you'll lack common sense on the level that she has exhibited. I've met and am friends with plenty of smart and sensible teenagers.

I'm not going to touch the haircut argument. I'd definitely give her the "first kiss" argument. If she didn't initiate the kiss, then it's sorta OK. If it's her best friend and it was a one-time incident, I'd let it go. The only thing I'd be worried about is her state of sobriety. If she was under-age at the time, then I'd be concerned if either she or her friend were drunk or high at the party. It may be a little "parental", but it comes with the love.

You say she's still in high school. I'm not going to automatically assume that she's under 18. Either way, I think being "older and wiser" may put you at a quandary at times. When you worry about your SO, you try to work things out with him/her. In plenty of relationships, you may end up in a position where you have to work things out for her at certain points. Especially if she's lost, confused, naïve, or just plain needs help. It's not a matter of control - it happens in every healthy relationship. But because of your age, you may come off as stodgy and lecturing whenever you try to do this. Being labelled a pervert doesn't help matters any.

In this case, you might want to go through the basics of artist/model protocol with her. Just for future reference. Do it in the evening after an afternoon stroll through an art museum. Give it a week or two then discuss and set firm boundaries on your relationship. She should have the ability to stick to those boundaries, including holding her own against others. It's part of what a serious relationship entails, no matter what your age.

I've tried my best to help. I can only wish you the best of luck, and ask you to consider a break in the future, if only to allow her time to grow without you as a boyfriend (friends is still OK). She just may need it.