Hit Counter - Easy to Manipulate

[Ariana_Pearce]

@Ariana

I'm curious. Where the hell have they stacked it so that the stories are sorted by hits???? I'd rather know who updated. Nope, don't write, just read when I have the time.

I would be delighted to answer your question, but I am a bit intimidated by your lofty title. (At the blue site aforementioned, administrators are... how shall I say this delicately... inaccessible?) Point is, would mention of other sites constitute the illegal promotion of competitors? *

*Just teasing. I'm at work. To be continued.

[DemonGoddess]

[Ariana_Pearce]

So here is what I have seen in my travels.

Awful first drafts of my prose first appeared on a nasty place called bdsmlibrary, courtesy of a couple well-meaning roomies who went so far as to add s&m material to make my trash acceptable at the place. In a way they did me a favor, because I had about 50,000 readers there, and the experience convinced me of the truth to the old verity, sex sells. At any rate, that place is still around, and it allows sorting by both "ratings" and "popularity." Thus, those two metrics are constantly gamed.

Incidentally, O Goddess, bdsmlibrary does have one feature that I would recommend for AFF: one can also sort on stories by length. This is a boon to readers who either enjoy getting lost in big novels, or want something short and quick at one in the morning. There are two ways of achieving it: the "soft" method is by chapter count, and the "hard" method is by cumulative character length. Great feature-- especially if a venue is attempting to attract authors of longform fiction.

I cleaned up the trash that I had at bdsmlibrary and posted it for a time at storiesonline. That place gave prominence to new stories briefly, but it also allowed sorting by "popularity." There again, the hit counts were constantly gamed, and since they used IP-sensitive hit counts, the place had more sockpuppet accounts than people.

At around the same time I also posted novels at the blue site (xn**), which at the time was uncensored. That place also ranks placement by ratings and popularity, and the "troll wars" are interminable. On top of which, their affinity advertisers have strong-armed them into imposing oppressive censorship rules. The administrators have exploited the rules to drive out a large audience of young/prepubescent fetish, which I suppose I can understand, but they've overcompensated to the point where xn*x is now perhaps the most heavily censored site of its kind.

I have also given goodreads a try. (My work is classified as mainstream contemporary romance, not erotica.) goodreads is just too big, with too small and cliquish a community. Online submissions tend to be lost there.

I am also at Amazon, of course. The novels that I plan on posting here are also at Amazon, formatted in HTML5 for Kindle Fire. I am so lost in the noise at Amazon that I don't even bother to promote the pen name that I use there.

That's about it. In a nutshell, ratings and popularity are placement criteria just about everywhere I've been, and they are abused everywhere I've seen them.

AFF is a most refreshing and welcome change!

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[GeorgeGlass]

Incidentally...

GeorgeGlass, I've poked into a few of your stories during my lurking phase. Thus I have contributed meaningfully to your largely worthless hit counts! This does not constitute a review, because I am gutless, but at some point I might have more to say.

Um, thanks for poking?

The hit counter is meaningless? oh woe is me, I guess I'll go eat worms

So that thing about pregnant women having weird cravings is true?

I'd rather spend my time writing than obsessing over my stats because in the end they really don't mean anything. This isn't a popularity contest, I think the original poster mentioned something about this site being fair about the updates page not being ruled by popularity, it doesn't hurt me if someone has written something that people love and it gets a million hits.

I don't think of it as a popularity CONTEST, but I am definitely affected by whether a story is a hit or a flop. I had my first straight-up flop recently (in that reviewers were explicit about not liking it, and the reasons why), which has definitely made me question some of my assumptions about what readers want to see. Because if I didn't care about what readers thought, I wouldn't post my stories online in the first place (or else I'd post them on a site that has no mechanism to allow readers to respond).

Gotta concede the point, Desiderius. I could write straight into a diary, seal it in wax, and bury it under the roots of a hemlock tree. But I'm here. So my claim that I write only for myself must be poetic crap!

Very well said.

[DirtyAngel]

So that thing about pregnant women having weird cravings is true?

yep, worms and ice cream Just not the worms and ice cream you're thinking of

Edited September 15, 2015 by DirtyAngel

[CL Mustafic]

I don't think of it as a popularity CONTEST, but I am definitely affected by whether a story is a hit or a flop. I had my first straight-up flop recently (in that reviewers were explicit about not liking it, and the reasons why), which has definitely made me question some of my assumptions about what readers want to see. Because if I didn't care about what readers thought, I wouldn't post my stories online in the first place (or else I'd post them on a site that has no mechanism to allow readers to respond).

I guess I don't see it that way. I've had readers that have been quite vocal about what they didn't like about some of my stories but it didn't change the course of the story I wrote. Hell I got a couple of threats on another site when I started posting a sequel to a story some people sort of liked when it went in a direction they didn't like. Though I do admit that some reader feedback on another story did help to make it better in that I continued for a couple extra chapters to make the ending more complete but it didn't change the story I wanted to write.

If I let the readers dictate what I wrote, all my stories would have one big guy, the dominant alpha male (most likely a werewolf because that's what readers want in the genre I write) and one smaller effeminate guy that the big guy wants but doesn't want him but he gets anyway because of the 'mate bond'. *shudders at the thought of attempting to write that story* I couldn't write a supernatural fic to save my life.

I just think when writers write to appease the readers, they can lose sight of what got them excited about writing the story in the first place. If I looked at hit counts, rates and reviews, I'd have quit posting after my first two stories (I'll smack anyone that tells me I should have taken the hint. ) and then FFH would never have seen the light of day on this site.

Anyway, my advice is to just keep writing what you're compelled to write, post it and even if it's not what you think is a major success (What constitutes success on this site, 1k hits, 10k hits? I've no idea.) if you're happy with what you wrote then you did what you set out to do.

CL

[Ariana_Pearce]

Um, thanks for poking?

During my lurking phase I started at the top page of "Archive/Latest" and "poked" through the stories in perhaps 60 pages. I needed to acquire a visceral sense of this site's tolerance for controversial material.

I am not into the fetish/underage stuff that is causing so much angst on other story sites these days, but the novels that I will be posting here are full of controversial themes that have caused trouble elsewhere. (Big age disparities, murder, coerced sex, graphic violence, war, the annihilation of the U.S. 7th Fleet, the nuclear obliteration of northwest Kansas, the invasion and conquest of heaven, ....)

Your work pushes the envelope in some respects, and I did "poke" through quite a bit of it. I am still not convinced that I will find readers here, but your stories helped me to convince myself that I will not be shown the door for anything that I'm posting here. (Make of that what you will! )

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[Ariana_Pearce]

...

If I let the readers dictate what I wrote, all my stories would have one big guy, the dominant alpha male (most likely a werewolf because that's what readers want in the genre I write) and one smaller effeminate guy that the big guy wants but doesn't want him but he gets anyway because of the 'mate bond'. *shudders at the thought of attempting to write that story* I couldn't write a supernatural fic to save my life.

I just think when writers write to appease the readers, they can lose sight of what got them excited about writing the story in the first place....

+1

My readers do not get a say.

Some writers discover the story as they go along and have no idea where it is going to take them. That's one way to do it.

I storyboard the whole plotline. I know the first and last words of the novel before I start. I know the endgame, and every word preceding plays a role in getting me there.

I do not start to write the book until I love the ending.

By the time I start the first paragraph, I typically have approximately 100 single spaced pages of supporting notes, timelines, characterizations, and locale research. I even sketch difficult scenes.

As such, I may indeed lose a few readers on the way, but they can't cry foul for false advertising. From the first scene, the end is foregrounded. All of the major characters are introduced, and the novel is running on rails.

Of course, the trick when writing this way is to surprise, regale and enthrall the reader regardless, which can be as challenging in its own way as writing as a path of discovery.

So, no. My readers don't help me write the book. But yes, I do care what they think. They are the gauge as to whether my rubric has succeeded.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[CL Mustafic]

So, no. My readers don't help me write the book. But yes, I do care what they think. They are the gauge as to whether my rubric has succeeded.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say I don't care what they think. I like to hear that a story is at least provoking some sort of emotion even if it is hatred for a character or a storyline but I don't let it sway the course of my story. I'm simply saying that I've found that people tend to like a certain type of story and if you dare to go down a different line than they are used to, you can get quite a bit of resistance (or less hits - since that's what this all started off as anyway). If I wanted to I could write a story that follows a formula and would please many of the readers in my genre. That's just not what I've set out to do so therefore I don't. So that's how I see myself as writing to please myself first and if others like it, that's just a boon.

It's nice to hear that your work is appreciated but would I stop if nobody told me they liked what I'd written? No.

CL

[Ariana_Pearce]

I know what you mean and I fully agree.

Here we go, flair for the obvious:

There are two senses in which a reader can hate a character.

The reader can hate a character that simply doesn't work, in terms of craft. If the character and/or its situation/action/milieu are implausible, the writer has failed in the execution of some technical aspect of his/her job.

In another sense, the reader can hate the character as one would detest a person. And in this sense, the writer succeeds, whether the viscerally negative reaction is intended or not! There is nothing more cool than hearing a reader say he's in love with a character, or equally, that he wants to find the character and kill him.

I try very hard to avoid hated characters in the first sense. But in the second sense... I don't mind it at all!

Edited September 15, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[BronxWench]

I know what you mean and I fully agree.

Here we go, flair for the obvious:

There are two senses in which a reader can hate a character.

The reader can hate a character that simply doesn't work, in terms of craft. If the character and/or its situation/action/milieu are implausible, the writer has failed in the execution of some technical aspect of his/her job.

In another sense, the reader can hate the character as one would detest a person. And in this sense, the writer succeeds, whether the viscerally negative reaction is intended or not! There is nothing more cool than hearing a reader say he's in love with a character, or equally, that he wants to find the character and kill him.

I try very hard to avoid hated characters in the first sense. But in the second sense... I don't mind it at all!

Yes, yes! In the second sense, absolutely!

[Ariana_Pearce]

I have derailed my own thread. We are way off hit counters. Apologies.

Moderator WillowDarkling has kindly moved the Style/Craft portion of this discussion to Writer's Corner/Plot Development.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[Ariana_Pearce]

Back to the topic with a suggestion for the AFF Archive.

Are there any plans, with the coming upgrade, to provide an automated Table of Contents feature? It would be great if, when a reader clicks on a multi-chapter story, she first sees a list of chapters titles with links. That way, one could easily to the middle of a big story without having to click Next a few dozen times.

My novel thread only has four chapters thus far, but I am planning many more. I am thinking about editing the first chapter to add front-matter, including a T.o.C. But I will not do that, if any plans for an automated T.o.C. are in the works.

[BronxWench]

I know exactly what you mean, having seen that done in ebooks I've purchased.

We do allow authors to add a Table of Contents to oneshot or drabble collections, but in terms of a novel-length chaptered fiction, we've not allowed a table of contents chapter.However, the archive code as it currently stands doesn't allow for links within chapters. It would be a list of URLs that the reader would need to copy and paste anyway.

What we do have, for now, is the dropdown of the chapters, which lists each chapter by number, and by name if the author has named them. You can then scroll the dropdown to the chapter you want to read. It's just as quick, and that is the goal, I think.

[Ariana_Pearce]

Hi again!

I know exactly what you mean, having seen that done in ebooks I've purchased.

We do allow authors to add a Table of Contents to oneshot or drabble collections, but in terms of a novel-length chaptered fiction, we've not allowed a table of contents chapter.However, the archive code as it currently stands doesn't allow for links within chapters. It would be a list of URLs that the reader would need to copy and paste anyway.

What we do have, for now, is the dropdown of the chapters, which lists each chapter by number, and by name if the author has named them. You can then scroll the dropdown to the chapter you want to read. It's just as quick, and that is the goal, I think.

Hi again! Back on topic, so you've returned.

Thanks for your response. Makes sense.

You know I missed the dropdown as an option. Probably because it doesn't work for me. When I'm in the Archive I usually have Javascript disabled, so the dropdown doesn't trigger. (Like many people, I usually lockdown my browser when I'm in adult-only sites.)

As for a self-built table of contents... the possibility came to me, because chapters are editable here without a time limit. So I thought it might be a nice idea, since I could maintain it myself as I add chapters.

But if it's not allowed, I won't do it. I've been here less than a month and I've already caused too much trouble.

[BronxWench]

Oh, no, you're not causing trouble at all! Honestly, it's refreshing to have someone using the forum and asking questions.

The dropdown feature is a huge timesaver for me, and allows me to navigate within a story as needed. I do understand wanting to tighten the restraints while in a adult-oriented site, and I hadn't realized it would disable our dropdowns for you. I'm not a coder at all, but I imagine that sort of lockdown would also disable the links within a table of contents, even if the archive code supported such links in the first place.

Edited September 20, 2015 by BronxWench
Typo correction - really, Wench? "soder"?

[Ariana_Pearce]

The T.O.C. could work with Javascript off. Typically the chapter entries are just a list of hyperlinks. Click and you go, because it is pure HTML. Just like the story links that exist now, on the Member profiles.

For that matter, the dropdown can be made to work with Javascript off. There can be a link button beside it that says something like "Go" or "refresh," and the "button" really executes a form submit. This causes the page to refresh, the form sends the state of the dropdown. So if Chapter 45 is selected, the server refreshes the page on Chapter 45.

(This is the same thing the dropdown itself does, but the dropdown fires on the "onchange" event, and that is why Javascript is required.)

All of the above is work (time and money), so I'm not really suggesting it.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Ariana_Pearce

[BronxWench]

The profile hyperlinks are within certain fields only. As I understand it, the archive stories do not have that capability, and I'm fairly sure that's not on the list of things to be added.

On the other hand, stock in the makers of most OTC analgesics will soar if it is. Our archive is usually enough of a challenge for many of our members.

[Joe Long]

On the other hand, stock in the makers of most OTC analgesics will soar if it is. Our archive is usually enough of a challenge for many of our members.

sometimes I find it quicker to Google the author's pen name!

[DemonGoddess]

The problem is html within the chapter data. It's entirely too easy to inject malicious code via an html upload. That's why it's not allowed. As to the javascript, why disable it? It's only used here for menuing, primarily, and is part of the rich text editor as well.

[Ariana_Pearce]

The problem is html within the chapter data. It's entirely too easy to inject malicious code via an html upload. That's why it's not allowed. As to the javascript, why disable it? It's only used here for menuing, primarily, and is part of the rich text editor as well.

Basic line of defense. Don't take it personally. I even avoid using Javascript on most commercial news sites. This makes some of them non-functional, of course, to which I say good riddance.

The fundamental problem is that inevitably sites of this kind are running content in IFRAMEs, and the site sometimes loses direct control over what appears in them. I also disable META-REFRESH for this reason. (Doing so can also break commercial sites.)

At the moment I am in Firefox, with Javascript on.

[DemonGoddess]

The structure is drawn with tables, not iframes, as iframes are often subject to issues as well

[Ariana_Pearce]

The structure is drawn with tables, not iframes, as iframes are often subject to issues as well

Yes! And I do stand corrected.

After I made my last post, I opened this page in Firebug and looked for IFrames in the editor and ad rotator, and I couldn't find any. Most impressive.

In my defense I am a bit confused, because every time I come to this page in Firefox, the thing squawks at me and asks me if I want to install Adobe Flash. It can't be the text editor that is barking at me, because I'm in the text editor now, and it works. So something is asking for it. That's why I wrongly assumed IFrames were hosting embedded content somewhere.

[DemonGoddess]

that would be for the flash banners

[Joe Long]

I hope this isn't too far off the topic, but a technical issue with navigation.

If I were to choose the one item I'd like to fix that to the bext of my knowledge would take the least effort, it would be to have a working hyperlink (one that could be clicked once) from an author's forum profile to their stories written page on the main site.

Currently on the author's forum profile, the url of their main site profile is spelled out, and has to be highlighted and right clicked to be opened in a new window. Once there, 'Stories Written' can be clicked to see a list.

Most times I am here in a forum or in the SB, and would like to be able to quickly and efficiently go to an author's stories..

Thanks