The Direct Address Comma Rule

[Cuzosu]

Okay Cuzosu, since this is my rant, I'm going to point out a few things using your post as an example. Please don't take this personally. It isn't. I don't know you at all. I just know what I read here.

1) The parenthetical aside: Had I used this "style" trick in any of my writing, my instructors would have torn me to shreds. I watched them do it to others. You are the author. Yours is the voice. There is no need (absolutely none) to cheat proper punctuation by using parentheses to address your readers separately. http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp

2) Improper use of the ellipses ... meaning those three little dots which are used as a pause or to indicate that words have been left out of a quote. They do not follow a period. The punctuation follows them.http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/ellipses.asp

Also, if a pause in the reader is what you are after -- an em-dash is more acceptable. http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/dashes.asp

3) The non-sentence: The more rare and professional level punctuation.

4) The splice, whether a comma or semi-colon: hey, this isn't perfect; here's a way you could improve it. This is two sentences. And you left out the quotation marks to signify this was something spoken, or written. "Hey, this isn't perfect. Here's a way you could improve it."

5) May I point out that all of this is off-topic. The Direct Address Comma, poor thing, is dead.

The comment about the dash is particularly helpful, thank you. I should probably check out a punctuation guideline again myself, just...not today. Today's busy enough, and we've company for the next couple days. The ellipses...I try not to use them like that, but I was tired when I left this post and my punctuation and sentence structure appears to have gone down the drain. *eyes previous post* As to your third point, the non-sentence, well, my teachers made it a habit, for those of us who were good at writing and liked it, to say, "It's okay to throw in a non-sentence every now and then for emphasis. Not often, but once in a while." Splices...in the case of two whole sentences, I was taught to use semi-colons. Probably because my classmates tended to go comma-crazy and our teachers got sick of it, but it's how I was taught.

And...yes. If it bothers you, you could always ask the admins to lock the thread so no more posts can be added. I might, in your place, and I'm sorry, I'm rambling again. I'm tired and hungry and...not looking forward to coming home smelling like cigarette smoke. *makes face* Trying to distract myself isn't working.

[pittwitch]

Why on earth would I lock a thread with such lively discourse?

I am bothered by the fact that apparently people are being taught that splicing together sentences improperly is acceptable as well as using fragments willy-nilly.

[Raymy]

...

1) The parenthetical aside: Had I used this "style" trick in any of my writing, my instructors would have torn me to shreds. I watched them do it to others. You are the author. Yours is the voice. There is no need (absolutely none) to cheat proper punctuation by using parentheses to address your readers separately. http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp

2) Improper use of the ellipses ... meaning those three little dots which are used as a pause or to indicate that words have been left out of a quote. They do not follow a period. The punctuation follows them.http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/ellipses.asp

Also, if a pause in the reader is what you are after -- an em-dash is more acceptable. http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/dashes.asp

3) The non-sentence: The more rare and professional level punctuation.

4) The splice, whether a comma or semi-colon: hey, this isn't perfect; here's a way you could improve it. This is two sentences. And you left out the quotation marks to signify this was something spoken, or written. "Hey, this isn't perfect. Here's a way you could improve it."

5) ...

Cool, PW. Thanks for the links. I checked them out and bookmarked the site. Ever think about starting a thread under author resources with quick tips and links? Is there already something there? It's not like I checked; I've barely scratched the surface of what's been posted in the forums. I just thought that a well organized mini-grammar lesson would be helpful for many authors who say they don't have the time to become fully educated on the subject. It would be easy to point to it during a review.

Also, the direct address comma rule isn't a large enough topic to keep a post alive, so it's natural that it devolved into a general grammar discussion. I am glad you enjoy the input and you may even say that you successfully engaged many posters, thereby creating a 'Hot' topic.

[RogueMudblood]

There is already something there, Raymy: Useful/Helpful Links

[pittwitch]

Thanks, Raymy. I know the topic is/was bound to deviate, but truly, I will be happy if I have converted even one cannibal.

[pittwitch]

Here is a site that I always find helpful for things grammatical: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/

[RogueMudblood]

Why on earth would I lock a thread with such lively discourse?

I am bothered by the fact that apparently people are being taught that splicing together sentences improperly is acceptable as well as using fragments willy-nilly.

This reminds me that I was also taught never to start a sentence with a conjunction. Unfortunately, just as I see the sentence fragments throughout prose in almost every story I read, I also see the sentences beginning with these words. It makes me cringe every time.

As for the ellipses, I just had to leave a review on a story that the author will likely delete. I expect that reaction, since I had the unenviable task of informing them that it was not only highly distracting, but kept me from becoming involved in the story at all. Seeing Professor Snape continuously stuttering a la Captain Kirk throughout his harangue was incredibly off-putting.

[pittwitch]

I'd ask for the story link except I can only imagine how a stuttering Snape would annoy me to no end.

[cowgirl65]

How about capitalization? I see numerous examples of capitalizing common nouns, i.e. 'He went to see the Doctor.' if your just going to see a random medical practitioner, shouldn't 'doctor' not be capitalized? As far as I know, the only doctor capitalized that way is one of the Doctors from Dr. Who.

i read this example somewhere else as well and it always makes me laugh

There's a difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

[Kurahieiritr]

This has been driving me nuts in the Archive. I learned this rule as a ten year old kid so I now question WTH our kids are being taught. This comma makes all the difference in the world in a sentence. Let's demonstrate!

"Let's eat, Grandma!" means that we want Grandma to put the grub on the table.

"Let's eat Grandma!" means that we have suddenly become cannibals and Grandma IS the grub.

A lowly comma, long neglected by lazy writers, completely changes the context!

It also applies to terms of endearment or titles:

"Yes, Master," murmured the slave.

"Good night, my sweet," whispered the dom.

If even one person changes their evil ways, I shall rejoice with dancing, dearies!

I tend to agree with your feeling that the direct address comma is fast becoming a lost art. My younger son barely got any education about grammar at his public school to be blunt. He has recently turned twenty-one and can barely put together a simple letter. I think that contributes a lot to the problem you have in the archive. English is not about teaching the mechanics of writing if my son's education is any worthy measure of the modern "No Child Left Behind" laws governing our public schools.

I know I tend to forget the direct address comma in shout box which is bad form since I went to college to learn how to be an editor. However, for all my dastardly spelling, and grammar mistakes in shout box, I do endeavor to be more professional with my stories.

Plainly speaking, I would love to have a reliable beta whom was capable of working with my writing schedule. Unfortunately, nobody knowledgeable enough, and capable of giving a decent beta response has the time to give consistent grammatical feedback to me. Therefore, I have developed a jaded view of fan fiction betas who offer their services. Fan fiction is less important to those who have the actual grammar knowledge. They do not mind putting aside a fan fiction piece in favor of other, often important pursuits. I do get a few reviews that help me to go back and find mistakes which I correct in batches. Still, I have learned the hard way that my Initial D stories are not important enough to betas for them to catch my jaded eyes missed mistakes on a timely schedule. Therefore, in the fan fiction writing sector, I tend to relegate a beta as more of a sounding board when I am not certain I am evoking the emotions I intend. My personal experiences support this evolving ideology that fan fiction is not taken seriously by the vast majority.

The same jaded view has evolved toward giving other writers concrit reviews. I tone my reviews down drastically so as to be less offensive, however, the majority of reviews I have given are deleted because I point out the very worst of the grammar problems, while ignoring many other minor glitches. Honestly, if everything I say which might help the writer is going to get deleted, why should I continue? Lately, I am confining my reviews to writers who ask me directly for a read and review service. Without such an invitation, I assume that the review will be deleted post haste.

The direct Address comma, and many other grammatical punctuations, are lost to the modern world. Use of correct grammar often gets me yelled at by ignorant reviewers. They scream about my correct use of commas more than any other grammar rule. I stopped connecting dialog with extra sentence structure as one means of silencing the grammatically dim. I end every scrap of dialog now with a period. If I am going to designate a speaker, I do so in a separate sentence to keep morons from complaining.

The sad reality is that those who know are becoming a very rare minority. The last 5 books my son read contained such atrocities of language that I know full well reading books is no guarantee of teaching the modern hobbyist author anything remotely literary correct. Garbage is now the standard for success. Reality is a sorrowful dive into the cesspool of stupidity and laziness. I came to that conclusion with my younger son's English teacher as the foundation of how lazy society has become in the last 21 years.

[pittwitch]

I surrendered any attempts at beta-reading because the majority of those who sought help did not actually want help. They wanted someone to correct all of their mistakes, pat them on the head, and send them on their way. I can only explain the same rule so many times before I explode. I do expect adults, and children alike, to learn from their mistakes. This is probably a major reason why I left teaching -- no patience!

Teaching is rapidly becoming a lost art. Society and the bureaucracy have relegated our educational system to glorified babysitting services. "Don't discourage the poor dears!" "Just love them more!" "We have to pass 'the test'." Sadly, even when the teachers attempt to teach, time and subject matter constraints limit them mercilessly. When it came down to the PSSA writing tests for my kids, guess who taught them to peruse a few short paragraphs and answer an essay question? My kids still have me proofread their writing. Surprisingly, I find I only have to explain things to them once or twice. I find it very discouraging when students are merely encouraged to memorize and repeat rather than absorb, formulate and apply.

The greatest gift we can give our children is the desire to learn, thereby improve, at every opportunity. This gift requires more time and attention than the majority, that I have been exposed to, of parents care to invest. I'm not saying this is your failure. I'm just commenting in general. Not all parents are capable of teaching their own kids, and as such, should be able to trust the educational system to help them. Epic fail, in most cases. -- fragment intended for emphasis.

I cannot comprehend how so many writers, fanfiction or not, can publish stuff that is so riddled with spelling, punctuation, capitalization and content errors and be praised for such stuff. Typos and blatant blah in published works -- actually paperbacks, etc., set my blood to boiling. No one is perfect. One or two mistakes, I can overlook. Folks eating grandma? No, I cannot bear the cannibalism.

[Kurahieiritr]

The greatest gift we can give our children is the desire to learn, thereby improve, at every opportunity. This gift requires more time and attention than the majority, that I have been exposed to, of parents care to invest. I'm not saying this is your failure. I'm just commenting in general. Not all parents are capable of teaching their own kids, and as such, should be able to trust the educational system to help them. Epic fail, in most cases. -- fragment intended for emphasis.

I cannot comprehend how so many writers, fanfiction or not, can publish stuff that is so riddled with spelling, punctuation, capitalization and content errors and be praised for such stuff. Typos and blatant blah in published works -- actually paperbacks, etc., set my blood to boiling. No one is perfect. One or two mistakes, I can overlook. Folks eating grandma? No, I cannot bear the cannibalism.

I hear you, Pitt. In fact I can rant as loudly as you in this instance, only with a very diversified portfolio of complaints concerning grammar and modern educational laziness. For those who take writing seriously, it is an unavoidable fact that most do not care that they are writing cannibalism. Use of proper commas annoys the stubbornly blind and willfully ignorant. Sorry for ranting at everyone who reads this post. However, I am so righteously frustrated with each instance I come across that contains excuses for not trying to improve a story that I can't help but do a bit of spewing of my own.

I tried to teach my son proper grammar outside of school when I realized he knew nothing of genuine comma use, nor other grammar rules. You will be disturbed to learn that I got called into the school office more than once by by the principle for messing with my child's learning curriculum. I was told my interference would damage his future. The school bully Principle threatened me with getting my son removed on abuse charges. I was helping him with English because I was an employed Editor at the time. I knew grammar better than the stupid nitwits teaching English. I suppose that must have been threatening to said egotistic English Teachers. How's that sad fact grab you? I have been of the opinion that the modern education system has been set up to insure indoctrinated children, not fully capable adults who can function as successes since that series of power play episodes. My son is incapable of writing well due to the school's interference with my attempts to teach correct writing skills before my stroke.

You are correct when you say teachers were reduced to babysitting duties by the government's funding dole. I am also saddened that you were forced into such a hard spot by people you tried to help as a beta. I understand your decision to quit. I would do the same in your position since stubbornly ignorant do it for me types have become the majority in recent years. Reading over the beta offers here makes me cringe 95 percent of the time. The grammar is often a joke, and the spelling errors are worse than my sadly disturbing shout box typo terrorism mistakes. My misspelled words embarrass me greatly, but, I have pride which is always stinging due to my mistakes.

All too often, I think I am hitting the backspace button and hit the enter button instead. That is the visual aspect of the mess my brain has been trapped within for several years because of my stroke. However, I do not believe that excuses my horrible typos. I know the reason for the problem, yet have not found the way to overcome said embarrassing problem at this time. I am still searching for that answer and have all my determination involved with finding a working solution. I know the Dyslexia illness quite well, and I hate it when I cannot see mixed up letter orders that glare at others. Still, I refuse to accept it as a limitation, or use it as a convenient cop out to get out of revisions. Dyslexia is my personal battle to overcome no matter how long it takes to erase it from my own personality. Some days when I awaken, I am ashamed to know that I am less than I once was as a writer/editor. So why do so many use excuses for their lack of knowledge? Knowledge is only powerful if it gets used correctly. I do not understand the mind set of so many writers who post fan fiction and similar on free sites like AFFnet. I get livid with each excuse or deleted review that should have helped the writer to make a truly powerful and engrossing read.

Messed up as my recall has been since the stroke, I still retained far more grammar rules than most of the younger generation has ever tried to absorb. When I look at a sentence, I know it is off kilter. The knowledge that I should know the answer intimately makes for an unbearable sadness over how much damage my brain suffered when I had that stupid stroke. The words and rules are in there, but I cannot access them without a horrific battle. Some of the wrongs, I still cannot pinpoint with accuracy, so I look up rules and try to figure out why that sentence bugs me so deeply, and with good reason. Some grammar rules have been changed in recent decades to reflect the dumb it down mentality of the modern American education system. The new rules only get applied because I do wish to get back to the point where I can become a paid editor/author again. For now, I have to accept that I have a long road to continue walking if I want to get back to my former know how and English command's full glory.

Still, seeing so many excuses about bad grammar and spelling tend to really anger me because I am busting my ass to get back everything that I know I have lost. It hurts to have to admit that I am dyslexic and it affects my vision. I do not always see mistakes in spelling due to the letters looking correct in their order to my stupidly screwed up brain. However, I always correct things in my own stories once someone helps me find which word is the wrong word. So long as the paragraph number is provided and the sentence pinpointed, I do fix the mistake as a matter of personal pride. I correct grammar stage after stage as I relearn rules that were erased by the illness I suffered. Isn't that how every real writer should be?

Therefore, I can not understand the "poor, pitiful me" type author who has a knee jerk excuse for why they can't do something, or how they tried it once and it did not work out perfectly for them so why bother continuing to use the technique? The fact is, I quickly begin to doubt that such individuals ever actually tried to do anything toward correcting their writing problems. To my thinking, such writers are looking for pity pats on the head, not solutions that bring real growth as a writer. My dyslexia, and stroke recovery do not qualify me to be lazy about repairing my drafts with each rule I personally seek to relearn. I set aside time, and I do work to improve every chapter in manageable chunks while focusing upon a specific relearned rule. To my way of thinking, that is how all writers should act.

My personal stroke recovery has included studying grammar books that I buy to relearn the trade I adore with every fiber of my being. I spend time every week going over specific sections of the rules to relearn everything I lost. The Rules I can't quite recall how to use from explanations, I ship a detailed this is what the book says email to one of the friends that I know whom uses the rule correctly. I construct a couple example sentences and ask if I am on the right track. Once my friends get back to me, they explain where my damaged brain sector gets things backwards and offer corrections. Once I can get the actual rule structuring right in my brain, I do catch more of the mistakes in my own writing. I still have plenty of spots I am ashamed of within my own writing, but I take every concrit review I receive to revise, edit, and reload each chapter in slow but steady steps. I do not erase stories to revise them. Edit button works well for revising chapters as I get the chapters repaired. Only WIP stories, and the third novel in the series that I have posted here at AFFnet have yet to get overhauled. Trying to satisfy fans who constantly contact me seeking updates does slow my progress with the hard revisions I am determined to complete in stages. Yet, I do not believe I have the right to consider the grammatically messed up items acceptable. Correcting them is always on my mind.

Finally, I am sorry for getting on such a snarling soap box such as I have in this post. My frustration with so many people who use Dyslexia as an excuse for failure and laziness has me insanely angry right now. A dozen such threads filled with excuses about the topic of why people think they are incapable of overcoming their flaws in writing has me seeing bright, neon, glowing embers of red today. Society does not seem inclined to self improvement of late. Society loves to wallow in poor, pitiful, victimized me syndrome which is one thing my blunt personality can never embrace.