Back history

[Kurahieiritr]

Better back story, however, takes yet more practice. Or a family/personal tendency for pouncing on stories. I've read some back stories on characters that I found...lacking. I'll be kind and leave it at that.

A: You guys have brought up some very good points about back story overkill that many writers commit like a cardinal sin. In reality, we do not know the characters when we start reading, and should not know them beyond their actions. To love what you read requires evolving the character with each word crafted to promote action, emotion and understanding for the reader I think. As to the fan fiction writers laziness, I have read a lot of the problem children of said formula. I am not a fan of those either. I pick on the least embellished aspects of characters when I write fan fiction. I delve into the hints, not the head bashes of any fandom I choose to write. I also take the less loved characters and give them a reason for their obnoxious traits which is rarely tapped by the majority. Yet, sadly, I also think a lot of fandom writers are lazy. I see plenty who cannot understand basics of cannon psychology of the characters they are writing also. Makes me cringe personally. Staying cannon takes discipline, and forethought. Many fandom writers ignore everything about the actual universe they are writing within which is tragic.

The bulk of all stories rejected by publishing house editors are due to back story presented as the opening salvo. It is a taboo in the industry because it does not serve any real purpose to the publishing industry standards. Readers have set expectations and back story openings are not among them. Back story needs to be sprinkled through the story as a flavoring. It only has one purpose; clarify specifics. The vast majority of novice writers pour it on, making their tale far less enjoyable for the reader. Most editors of pro level say that they only accept stories which, from the very first word committed to the manuscript, set the character's heels on fire. The character can only recall taking firefighter classes after they are burning. ROFL. Kind of an absurd way to say it, and yet it is a great memory jogger.

I have read numerous back story starters, and can say that I for one do not care how great the story gets starting in Chapter 2. The first chapter put me to sleep because it is nothing but a "get to know me" flop. Such writers needs to get rid of chapter one, and possibly chapter 2 because the actual story starts after the monotonous back story segment. Introduce characters who are active and hopping through hoops to preserve their own hides. I'll be happier getting to know them as a reader. Writing the same way becomes habit with practice. Having a setting that reflects troubles on the horizon, be it mental, or physical is important to engaging a reader's interest. So you may not have the characters dashing madly down the street with their feet flaming, but you do want to have them walking through a gas puddle at the very beginning.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Kurahieiritr

[Desiderius Price]

Interesting thread.

One way to solve the backstory is to write a separate story, though I’ve now got a bunch of WIP stories for having done that.   However, if the backstory is critically important to the story, you one can always start off with that scene, then a “five years later...” or whatever, to bring it to the current setting.  (Lots of stories/movies do this.)

 

[CloverReef]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:17 PM, Desiderius Price said:

Interesting thread.

One way to solve the backstory is to write a separate story, though I’ve now got a bunch of WIP stories for having done that.   However, if the backstory is critically important to the story, you one can always start off with that scene, then a “five years later...” or whatever, to bring it to the current setting.  (Lots of stories/movies do this.)

 

Wow, this is a neat thread! Well worth the grave digging you did to pull it back up. Too much backstory is one of the major reasons I’ll stop reading a fic, and definitely one of the first things to go when I get cut-happy in the editing process of my own stories. (Though I’ve been criticized for not having enough, so I may not be an authority on the subject.)

For me, it has to be relevant to the moment in the story as well as interesting. Not just one or the other. Otherwise it feels forced or boring to me. But I’ve come to learn that there are people out there who don’t groan and skip over backstory and exposition dumps like I do. If you zone out while reading your own writing, that’s a pretty good indication there’s a problem. If not, but you’re still unsure, ask someone for help. 

(Just to be clear, the ‘you’ I’m referring to in the second paragraph, is anyone reading this who may be unsure. I’m fairly certain you already trust your instincts, @Desiderius Price)

[GeorgeGlass]

9 minutes ago, CloverReef said:

Wow, this is a neat thread! Well worth the grave digging you did to pull it back up. Too much backstory is one of the major reasons I’ll stop reading a fic, and definitely one of the first things to go when I get cut-happy in the editing process of my own stories. (Though I’ve been criticized for not having enough, so I may not be an authority on the subject.)

For me, it has to be relevant to the moment in the story as well as interesting. Not just one or the other. )

I agree--backstory has to come at the point when it’s relevant, and not in a data dump sometime beforehand. 

I remember someone sending me the first chapter of a story to beta, and my chief comment about it was, “I don’t want to know all of this yet.” She was explaining way too much, which tends to lead to all telling and no showing.

[CloverReef]

1 hour ago, GeorgeGlass said:

I agree--backstory has to come at the point when it’s relevant, and not in a data dump sometime beforehand. 

I remember someone sending me the first chapter of a story to beta, and my chief comment about it was, “I don’t want to know all of this yet.” She was explaining way too much, which tends to lead to all telling and no showing.

Absolutely! I think sometimes it's a case of the writer not trusting their words to paint a picture without the help. Or not trusting the reader to understand or get attached without the life story. At least that's been my experience. But a character's actions and decisions are far more effective to get the reader hooked enough that they'll crave that backstory over time. 

I don't know if I'm making sense anymore tonight lol. 

[Desiderius Price]

5 hours ago, CloverReef said:

Wow, this is a neat thread! Well worth the grave digging you did to pull it back up. Too much backstory is one of the major reasons I’ll stop reading a fic, and definitely one of the first things to go when I get cut-happy in the editing process of my own stories. (Though I’ve been criticized for not having enough, so I may not be an authority on the subject.)

For me, it has to be relevant to the moment in the story as well as interesting. Not just one or the other. Otherwise it feels forced or boring to me. But I’ve come to learn that there are people out there who don’t groan and skip over backstory and exposition dumps like I do. If you zone out while reading your own writing, that’s a pretty good indication there’s a problem. If not, but you’re still unsure, ask someone for help. 

(Just to be clear, the ‘you’ I’m referring to in the second paragraph, is anyone reading this who may be unsure. I’m fairly certain you already trust your instincts, @Desiderius Price)

It was good timing, because I was talking to another author, who did like chapters worth of backstory, and I thought it was the regular story.  Backstory/flashbacks can easily confuse the reader.

Now, having a backstory to a character can be quite useful to have, something to draw from while writing dialogue or reactions or similar, but the author should definitely focus the story on the story. 

3 hours ago, CloverReef said:

Absolutely! I think sometimes it's a case of the writer not trusting their words to paint a picture without the help. Or not trusting the reader to understand or get attached without the life story. At least that's been my experience. But a character's actions and decisions are far more effective to get the reader hooked enough that they'll crave that backstory over time. 

I don't know if I'm making sense anymore tonight lol. 

Do I make sense?  Does anybody make sense? 

I admit I’ve gotten hooked on writing those stories that are technically backstory to the other stories.  At least in the case of Jefferey, the readers seem to agree that my decision and that’s good.

[InvidiaRed]

Sometimes there doesn’t need to be one.

In my experience. You can hint, throw comments and other snippets to create a bigger back story.

How do they react? How do things affect the characters. Do certain things remind them? You can create an effective character purely on how does the character react to the world around them.

 

 

[CloverReef]

100% Yes, @InvidiaRed. Hints and snippets are generally all I can take when I’m reading a book or a story. Just enough to let us know that the character is a well rounded human being who existed before the events of the story, but it takes very little to establish that, and if done via the character’s actions and decision making, and interacting with the world around them, I think it comes much more naturally. 

I don’t see anything wrong with doing a spinoff prequel type thing, like you mentioned, @Desiderius Price. Its just when the flashbacks and exposition dumps interrupt the story that I tend to skip forward or stop reading. I used to do little standalone drabbles with characters backstories just to get them straight in my head before putting the char in a full fic. Origin stories can be fun. 

[Desiderius Price]

18 minutes ago, CloverReef said:

I don’t see anything wrong with doing a spinoff prequel type thing, like you mentioned, @Desiderius Price. Its just when the flashbacks and exposition dumps interrupt the story that I tend to skip forward or stop reading. I used to do little standalone drabbles with characters backstories just to get them straight in my head before putting the char in a full fic. Origin stories can be fun. 

Spinoff standalones are good fodder for halloween/holiday stories.   Origin stories do let me explore elements in my universe that would otherwise be untouched.  (And it’s really good for comprehensive understanding, even for the author.)