Is This Woman Nuts?

[NightScribe]

I was going to post this in the Harry Potter books forum, but the issue is broader. In April, this woman in Georgia wanted the HP books removed from the school district libraries, because they're "satanic" and "promote witchcraft." A link to one of the news stories is here. Book Banning Article

I bring this up because the school board decided to keep the books, but now she's appealing and trying again. She suggests "Chronicles of Narnia" or the "Left Behind" series to replace HP. I think it's important to add that this is a public school; ever hear of separation of church and state? Oh, and she's never read the HP books; they're too long. And she says something along the lines of "not having to read pornography to know it's obscene." This woman, in my opinion, is out of her mind. If she doesn't want her kids reading HP, fine, that's her decision as a parent and I don't have a problem with that. But who is she to dictate what others read? Fascist.

What I find ironic is that a book I'm sure she allows, hell, even insists her children read is full of incest, slavery, death, war, suffering, adultery, etc. Something called...the Bible. This book banning case is, in turns, amusing, sad and scary. I can't believe people still want to rid the world of classic books, like "1984" and "Farenheit 451." Books that address the idea of thought police and book banning. How wild is that?

[Guest Agaib]

People have always wanted to ban books for all the wrong reasons. I just can't believe that there are people dumb enough to still believe that witchcraft is a real threat to society while conservative republicans house members try to fuck pages.

[Guest cu-kid]

This is an issue that has been going on forever -gotta love that free speech Amendment. For J.K. Rawlings it has been an issue since, I think, her second book. I remember my mother mentioning something to me about how some parents were throwing fits about the books because they apparently made kids believe that they could be wizards, that they could cast spells and hexes... that they could practice witchcraft. Because of this, they were automatically seen as satanic. It's unfortunate that more people don't educate themselves on different religions... if they did, they would learn that the people who do practice “witchcraft” don't even believe in the devil. How's that for ironic? Besides, Satanism wasn't even established as a religion until the late 60's...

What is truly unfortunate about it is that these parents are doing nothing but suppressing one of the most fundamental elements of good development in their children's lives -imagination. How very sad is it to think that there are children out there who aren't able to believe that unicorns exist, that every time a bell rings, a fairy gets its wings, that dragons sleep blissfully in the hills of distant countries guarding their treasure -hell, I'm not a child anymore and I still believe in dragons

As for the separation of Church and State... well, as Americans we would like to believe that there is a separation, that we are the great Melting Pot of all cultures. But, in reality, it is the people that believe in God (the Christian one, of course) that get elected to run our country, not the one who is a perfect candidate, a U.S. citizen but follows the teachings of Buddha. No sense in changing tradition. This country was founded by people who were very religious, the Establishment Clause in the Constitution itself is even debated over what it “really” means. When members of the government start defining the word, “marriage” it is a clue that there is no clear distinction between Church and State. This grey area can be found every where -by law, our money carries the motto "In God We Trust," Congress begins every session with a prayer, and since 1954 the Pledge of Allegiance has the phrase, "one nation, under God."

Ugh, don't get me started on the issue. I agree that there should be a separation, but it is very hard for people to put aside their beliefs and be understanding that not everyone thinks the same way. I find, the older I get, the more intolerant I am of those who are intolerant. It is unfortunate what this woman is doing; however, she is unoriginal in her arguments in the fact that she is not the first and is not even close to being the last.

Besides, like “The Chronicles of Narnia” is any better. Is she aware that the same author that wrote those also wrote a book called “The Screwtape Letters” about a devil who writes letters to a subordinate devil about the best ways to torture a man on earth? Now that's truly ironic.

[Iggy_lovechild]

The god-fearing worms of Christianity (mind you, not all Christians are like that, just that assholes), have been trying to ban HP for ages now, pretty much since the series began. The Onion had a really hilarious pseudo-article about that.

What I find profoundly ironic is that this woman requesting The Chronicles of Narnia to replace it. I read that series when I was young, and it was only very recently that I realized the strong Christian imagery (and also because someone explained it to me). It was all rather amusing: I was like, "what? Really?"

And I wasn't raised pagan or by an atheist. My mom was Catholic and for a long time we were as regular church-goers as any modern family. Not god-frearing or Bible-thumpers but certainly not entirely secular. While I never was confirmed, I did my First Communion and all that crap. Anyway, long story short (how did it get so long anyway? ), there was no reason why I shouldn't have gotten the underlying God-and-Jesus stuff in Narnia. So why didn't I? I believe that the Narnia series' imagery is a bit too vague and what are you left with? A story about a fantastic, bloody war and magic....Hmm? How different is that from kids reading HP?

[Nanaea]

Once again, the Harry Potter books feature on this year's list of most-banned books. As this puts me in the company of Harper Lee, Mark Twain, J.D. Salinger, William Golding, John Steinbeck and other writers I revere, I have always taken my annual inclusion on the list as a great honour. "Every burned book enlightens the world." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

I don't think she minds.

[StoryJunkie]

I wish they would have banned "Tess of the d'Ubervilles" That book depressed me for like five years. I would rather read something fantastical like the HP series. JK Rowlings has such a neat way of telling a story, it just takes me to a happy place, not that awful "reality sucks" place.

[NightScribe]

I think she should inspect the shelves of every school district library with a fine tooth comb. We can't have anything satanic or magical polluting the shelves. Good heavens, what if a copy of Goethe's "Faust" was lingering in a high school library? A 200 yr old play where Mephistopheles appears as a rather witty, affable gent (who refers to God as the "Old Man"); convinces a guy to sell him his soul so he can shag (and knock up) a sweet young thing, then dump her and go party with the witches and demons on Walpurgis Night?

And she should look through any CDs too, if they're there. We can't have the kiddies listening to something like Mozart's "Magic Flute" because...well, there's magic in it! They're little minds would be warped forever!

[Guest echtrae]

Most likely the latter.

[StoryJunkie]

then she's just jealous, because JK made so much money off of it, and she wish she would have thought of it. Naturally, that'd make anyone mad! (Another kockamame theory from my brain)

[NightScribe]

Her little crusade reminded me of something that happened last year, when HBP came out. Some extremely conservative church in Michigan, I think, had a book burning. And it made me laugh my butt off. Cause, ya know, they had to buy copies of HP books to burn. So what, do you suppose, J.K. Rowling hears? "KA-CHING!!!" Mo money!!! These people are so stupid. Yeah, let's buy these books we hate, but never read, so we can have a bonfire and make the author richer! Is that some bizarre twist on divine justice?

[StoryJunkie]

book burning (step 1)

putting burning crosses on people's lawns (step 2)

lynching (step 3)

hm...cause for concern? I bet JK has had her share of death threats too. And they say education broadens the mind. Too bad these people weren't illiterate, or didn't feel as if they had to control everything in their lives for themselves and others.

This woman who is on this crusade must have someone feeding her fires. I bet there's an entire support group of people behind her nodding their approval. Why doesn't she mind her own business? She's putting more emphasis on something she doesn't want emphasized. Talk about shooting your own foot. I pity her kids. But I guess she has nothing better to do. I pity her husband.

[Guest Reika]

To be honest and not meant to offend anyone...

Its America. Enough said. America is behind on the law/religion seperation so I don't think its nuts or crazy. The country was founded on fanatic religious people to begin with.

[NightScribe]

Nothing to see here; I went back to edit a post and had to put something in. I've been writing all day, my brain has turned to Cheez-Whiz.

[WotanAnubis]

Its America. Enough said. America is behind on the law/religion seperation so I don't think its nuts or crazy. The country was founded on fanatic religious people to begin with.

In all honesty, the Founding Fathers themselves weren't religious fanatics.

Then again, a lot of the early immigrants were those religious fanatics Europe was really fed up with.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

And I think that Ben Franklin came as close to being a pagan as they got in those times.

Er, or at least as pagan as people were open about in that place at that time. Just because the brunt of people accused as witches weren't actually pagan, it doesn't mean noone was. They were simply very quiet about it or from small villiages were people were VERY superstitious. It was a joke between a friend of mine that no real witches would get burned at the stake 'cause they weren't stupid enough to get caught in the open.

But then there are those damn Puritans, who the Dutch kicked out of their country because they were so annoying.

Last I checked, the Puritans weren't in Holland, that was just the original Pilgrims who called themselves Spirituals. And they left Holland because, while yes, they didn't like England's "persecution" of them, they still wanted their children raised English. I could be wrong about the whole Puritan thing though. They may have gone to Holland first... but I don't think so.

[quamp]

I think she should inspect the shelves of every school district library with a fine tooth comb. We can't have anything satanic or magical polluting the shelves. Good heavens, what if a copy of Goethe's "Faust" was lingering in a high school library? A 200 yr old play where Mephistopheles appears as a rather witty, affable gent (who refers to God as the "Old Man"); convinces a guy to sell him his soul so he can shag (and knock up) a sweet young thing, then dump her and go party with the witches and demons on Walpurgis Night?

Let's not forget the Wizard of Oz series, as they make references to witches too.

Censorship sucks no matter who's doing it, however, I have to agree that some lines should be drawn to protect the innocent. The thing, I think, nobody can agree upon, is where to draw that line.

[Guest echtrae]

The thing, I think, nobody can agree upon, is where to draw that line.

I've always thought that the reason for that was because that the line is going to be in a different location for each person. Thus noone should get to define it for another.

[Guest Jackie_Boi]

Gah. I remember when the 4th book came out (GoF), my mom tried to ban me from reading the series because some churches were having a book burning. Of course I didn't listen and bought the book anyway. I really don't understand why it's such a big deal. No matter how many book burnings you're going to have, they still will sell. And banning them from libraries is just plain silly. J.K. Rowling takes me to such a magical place everytime I read the series. It takes me into that world and I find myself sad to leave. Why deny a child something like that? If you don't want your child reading those books, then fine, don't allow them in your house, but damn, don't ban them and deny other children the chance to enjoy a truly spellbinding series that they will remember for the rest of their lives.

Sorry if I ranted a bit

[NightScribe]

I had one of those strange, random thoughts earlier. I wondered if this woman had a copy of The Malleus Maleficarum sitting next to her Bible. (If you don't know what MM is, it's a 15th century book, written by a couple of priests and approved by the Pope(!) of the time. Kind of an early "Witch Hunting for Dummies"). Then I thought, I wonder if she's got The Crucible too? Cause that's about tracking down and prosecuting witches. Of course, Miller used Salem as an allegory for the McCarthy bullshit in the '50s. But I think that might get lost on certain people.

I agree with nikolatesla; the more you protest against a film, book, or whatever, people get interested who otherwise might not have cared. The possibility of seeing/reading something scandalous titillates people.

I'm somewhat proud that I've read my share of" banned" books. One of my favorites is "Lolita" and I've been revisiting Sade, and finding him to be one of my favorite authors. (Duh, just look at my sig). In fact, I'd like to offer a quote he used to end a volume of his works (which were not explicit, but dealt with heavy subject matter).

If the brush-strokes I have used to portray crime disturb and distress you, then your redemption is nigh and I shall have accomplished what I set out to achieve. But if you find the truth they depict offensive, if they provoke you to curse the author...then, wretched reader, you have recognized your own self and you will never change your ways.

Crafty little bugger, wasn't he?

[Guest lightgoddess]

One of the sad things about the situation is that these parents probably censor everything their children read and therefor their children really don't read much. I mean, having Mom bring a book into my room and tell me I could read it pretty much meant that I didn't want to.

The kids heard from other kids in school what wonderful books they are and begged their right-winged parents to buy them. Mom said she'd think about it, went to the book store, read the back and went, "My kid's going to hell is s/he reads this!! It's about magic and witches!!"

Those that shelter their children from such things wind up with kids who go ape shit in college because if they are censoring what they read, you KNOW they are censoring everyhthing in their lives. "Ooo! You can't watch the Discovery Channel because you might see native boobies!!" C'mon!!

Parents who purposefully shelter their children like this make me sick! I can not begin to express the relief that my parents did not censor what I read. Hell, they were just happy that I was reading!! lol The only thing even close to discouragement I ever got about reading was when I was like 4. I was sick of my Little Golden Books and wanted to read a real book. My aunt had the illustrated version of "The Hobbit". The damn book was so big that it was all I could do to pull it off of the bottom shelf and on to the floor. Mom told me that 'it might be a little above my level.' It took me well over a year and many trips to ask my mom or aunt what a word was, but I finished it. Of course, mom was right that it was 'a little above my level', but really, if a kid's outside reading instead of sitting in front of the TV or computer, does it really matter what they are reading if mom and dad have taught them the difference between reality and fantasy?

That's another the sticks in my craw about parents today (or at least parents like her!!). They act like kids are stupid little chimps who have no concept of reality and fantasy. Real parents (quite a lot like you guys) teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy. I work with a nurse who has a 9 year old daughter and they both ADORE the Hp books. She is also a very religious person. when her daughter asks her things like, "Are witches real?" She answers honestly with a, "Yes, and that is why you must not even pretend to do the spells in Harry Potter, even though they are nothing more than gibberish. There are real witches and they cast real spells." The daughter's happy and knows just exactly where her boundaries are. Mom's happy and doesn't have to go all nazi and burn books.

You know, I wonder just how many violent video games this lady's children have. Think they play Mortal Kombat or Doom on their state-of-the-art gaming console??

[NightScribe]

Real parents (quite a lot like you guys) teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy.

That is an excellent point. I can remember when I was about 13 and there was an R rated movie I really, really wanted to see. My mom went and saw it first and said "well, there's one or two kind of creepy/scary parts, just to warn you, but you can go." My reading choices were never really limited. My parents are divorced and one time my dad loaned me some books; my mom got bent out of shape over one of them, but I think she was pissed off at him for something else. She just expressed her disapproval, but the book didn't warp me or anything. My older brothers had piles of old Mad and Famous Monsters magazines and my younger bro and I read them all the time. We're all employed, tax-paying, functional adults. (As a side note, I've turned my mom into a rabid South Park fan, and that show got raked over the coals when it first started).

I think the example lightgoddess gave was perfect. Read the books yourself and have a conversation with your kids. Explain that it is fiction, coming from someone's imagination. Enter into a dialogue with them, ask them questions, explain your point of view. It will help the child later in life, by teaching them to employ critical thinking and learn how to form and express their opinions and respect the opinions and view points of others, even if they're different.

[redsliver]

"Are witches real?" She answers honestly with a, "Yes, and that is why you must not even pretend to do the spells in Harry Potter, even though they are nothing more than gibberish. There are real witches and they cast real spells."

This mother takes the right approach, education is a million times more effective than prohibition, however this example scares me more than the fanatic book burner.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

My sister form an early age taught her kids the difference between what was real and what wasn't. She explained to them that the violence they saw in video games and on t.v. wasn't real, and that they shouldn't emulate it.

What I will likely say to my kids (if I ever have any -shudder-): "Violence in video games in fun! Kill away! Violence in real life may be fun, but it's very, very, WRONG!

[Guest lightgoddess]

This mother takes the right approach, education is a million times more effective than prohibition, however this example scares me more than the fanatic book burner.

*giggles* I'm not sure why this scares you, Red. Oh, wait, most of you don't know I live in the Bible Belt. This mother was basically trying to protect her child from being ostracized by telling her not to 'perform' any spells from HP. You want to talk about mass hysteria in my area, let someone openly declare themselves a witch. Jehova Witnesses start coming out of every car, creek, tree, and rabbit hole, red flags go up at the bank, the grocery store, and the local Wal-Mart. People avoid you like the plague. You'd get less of a freaked out reaction if the New Madrid fault opened up, swallowed the Mississippi River, and broke the continent in two.

Most Bible Belt parents, instead of reading the books themselves and judging, listen to religious nuts like this particular lady and when their kids want to read the series only tell them, "No, it will make you go to hell." They like to use God to scare their children into 'being good.' Of course, what that leads to are girls who, instead of losing their virginity (because they'll go to hell for that), form little butt fucking clubs with the boys and pass each other around. Young gay men date girls all through their high school years as a front and secretly are screwing their 'best friend.' Yes, that is the untold story of the Bible Belt.

As far as censoring children, it's not hard, if you have parented them correctly (ha! is there any such thing as 'correct parenting'?), and your children want to read, then they will usually pick books appropriate for themselves... Unless they are like me and will read anything just to be reading.

I mean, I picked up my first Stephen King book when I was 9. Reading his stuff didn't screw me up any more than my parents parenting did. lol I just have a better imagination for it.

[Guest Masatar_Torlyl]

That woman is full 'o shit. She reeks. Badly.

Though as dangerous and double-sided as it is to say that "reality is our own to believe", she desparately needs to put down the hooch or moonshine and just realize that although witchcraft and satanism are real, magic is not and never will be.