Guest Melody Fate Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Please don't tell me I'm the only one to find This site offensive. I might be more offended than most, because I had a friend who went through one of those programs and was pronounced "cured." The problem being, he wasn't "cured." He did get married, did produce children, but it was far from a happy ending story. The only help given to the "cured" members of this group seemed to be "Pray really hard that God will take away those nasty urges!" This is also why I have a problem with that blanket saying, "Love the sinner, hate the sin!" people toss around when it comes to homosexuality and Christianity. Is it really a "sin?" Considering that the bible itself hints pretty heavily at some M/M relationships by some of God's favored ones, I think God probably just doesn't care. We've been fruitful, we've multiplied the hell out of ourselves, the human race is in no danger of dying out because people aren't having babies. If anything, we're going to kill ourselves off with our own cleverness. I always figured one of the big things God wants is for us to be happy. He created this beautiful planet, he gave us brains, he gave us the ablitity to really enjoy sex for the sake of sex itself, not only so we can reproduce. He gave us colors, rainbows, kittens, all these wonderful things. Why would he give us all of these terrific things if he didn't want us to be happy? And why did he make us come in a variety of shapes, sizes and colors? Why did he give each of us a unique personality, unlike any other, if God himself didn't embrace and celebrate differences? Why would someone who creates a world where human beings can have several shades of skin color, several different hair colors, several different eye colors, make everyone only interested in straight up sex with a person of the oposite sex, and anyone who doesn't follow this formula is somehow "tainted?" Or that "Homosexuality is the tool of the devil." Really? I'd think the Devil would be more interested in making us all the same. Aftera all, if we're all the same, then he'd only have to convert a few of us and the rest would fall like blind sheep. I think God wants us to be different. I don't think anyone can be happy by hating or living in denial about a big part of themselves. (Their sexual orientation) And I don't think God wants people to live a lie, pretending they're someone they're not. How do you people feel? Anyone out there know of someone who's been through such a program and feels it's been helpful and that they've been sucessfully "cured?" Do you believe homosexuality can be "cured?" Do you feel it can't be, because there's nothing wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotanAnubis Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 You know, it's not fair the way people such as these only wish to help humans fall in line with the Will Of God. I mean, what about all the storks and bears and deer and wolves and dolphins and hedgehogs that will now go through life, unnatural and unsaved? Won't someone please think of the homosexual animals? Yeah, I know, it may be a bit silly and I should take this subject rather more seriously, but this kind of thing helps me keep my sanity in the face of sites like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quamp Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 It's not as scary as Sherry Phelps-Roper. I happened to have taken some psychology courses in my studies... one of them centered on non-verbal communication. Having the eyes wide open all the time like she does is a clear indication of acute psychosis. (If you remember this, the Heaven's gate cult leader was like that too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywolly Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 One of my few thoughts on this matter is that there has to be something WRONG before it can be cured. I don't like to eat liver. Just because I think no one should eat it doesn't mean that I'm going to start up a subversive group and try and "cure" people of their liver cravings. That just isn't possible. When will people realize that other people--i.e. not them--will have different thoughts, views, religions, preferences, and even sexual orientations? There's nothing WRONG with being gay, straight, bi, or quadruple for that matter. There's nothing to CURE. This sort of rubbish just perpetuates hatred and misunderstanding. They aren't helping anyone. They are hurting people, and generations to come. I am all for people having the right to think, feel, do, want, believe whatever they want, but don't label it treatment when it's merely an indoctrination society owned and operated by the narrow-minded. Thus ends my rant for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paranoid Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 When will people realize that other people--i.e. not them--will have different thoughts, views, religions, preferences, and even sexual orientations? Hmm, recorded human history has been going on for over 5,000 years or so, right? So, maybe...never? As far as being cured? Hams get cured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike256bit Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I like the subtle link "HA" makes with "NA", indicating the ridiculous idea that it's supposed to be some disease. "Don't try the gay sex -- ya might get hooked on it!" Or "It only takes one penis." Ouch Ever since my brother came out, my mom's favorite question has been (for these groups) "Why would God create someone just so that person could be ostracized from society?" All this crusading in His name is going to make Him pretty mad, some day, and I'll be there laughing when fundamentalist learn that their whole anti-homosexuality cause is for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy_lovechild Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 God doesn't care about homosexuality because spiritual creatures live on a different level than humanity. I don't think the higher powers understand sex as pleasure in general and that's what same sex relationships amount to. But they understand because humans can't connect on a spiritual level as gods, angels, (whatever you want to call them) can. Sex is the closest we can get to that perfect union, and so I honestly doubt that God would comdemn something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adara Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I myself do not approve of homosexualty. With that said, here's what I think of this: From what I've read, and from what I've come to understand with that reading is that God gave us the right to choose. He gave us free will. He allowed us to choose to live our lives however we'd like. (While giving us some of his rules of course. However we choose to apply them, again, is our choice.) Although I may not approve of what my neighbor is doing, unless it harms me and mine directly, I am not suppose to interfere. I have beliefs just as those who are gay have their own. It would not be acceptable to me, to have anyone try and "cure" me of my heterosexual tendencies. I think we all have the right to decide for ourselves what is good for us. If God approves or not, I suppose everyone will find out at the end, and well, will never be able to tell the rest of us. Until God comes and tells us that we as a people have to go around judging each other because he has something else to do, I suggest we live our own lives, make sure we're doing what WE fell is right in them, and let everyone else live their own. I'm sure if anyone wants to be "cured" of ANYTHING they'll ask for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melody Fate Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 One of my few thoughts on this matter is that there has to be something WRONG before it can be cured. I don't like to eat liver. Just because I think no one should eat it doesn't mean that I'm going to start up a subversive group and try and "cure" people of their liver cravings. That just isn't possible. Exactly. One of my big problems with this is that it pretty much comes down to, "We can't help but notice, you're not with the 'norm,' therefore, the misus, I and every other decent human being has decided there's just somethin' wrong with you!" Says who? It's not something that hurts others. Yes, the "curers" will say that they're hurting themselves, but I'd say most of the "pain" of being gay is not the actual being gay, it's the fact that society labels and treats you terrible. Let's say we decide tomorrow that being left handed is horrible and that if you're smart, you'll either learn to be right handed, or you'll pretend you can't write at all. Will I be unhappy? You betcha, but funny, when it was acceptable to be left handed, I didn't have a problem. Yes, it was out of the norm and there were times when sissors and canopeners were a bit difficult for me... and I lived with having ink stains on my hands, but for the most part, I wasn't depressed about it. It was just something about me. If you're going to tell someone that something that comes natural to them is somehow "wrong" that it not only makes them different, but it makes them different in a "bad" way, then it's only natural that those who have this "evil affliction" are more likely to be depressed or be unhappy. I'm as straight as they come to the point where if it was all reversed, I'd be a closet heterosexual. And yeah, if my husband and I had to keep our love quiet, if we had to be careful, least Aunt Martha find out and pitch a fit... yeah, I'd probably wonder what was wrong with me too. What worries me the most is that I believe these groups are totally sincere, I believe they think they're doing a great service to these poor misguided souls. And in truth, they just make it harder for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoryJunkie Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I really didn't find it offensive, sorry. I've seen worse, and I thought it was going to be about bashing, but *whew* what a relief. Considering what a high-risk group gays are, I would think that one or two of them would want to find a way out of that life-style. 456 hits on the site, half of them from this thread, no doubt. I can't imagine that it could do much. As for a "cure" There's as much chance of them changing a lepord's spots, wouldn't you say? As primates, we do one thing very well. We learn. Once we've learned, it is very difficult to "unlearn". That is to say, once a habit is ingrained, it is very difficult to remove. The behavior patterns will always be there. Let's say we decide tomorrow that being left handed is horrible and that if you're smart, you'll either learn to be right handed, or you'll pretend you can't write at all. Excellent analogy. This actually happened to my grandmother. I think her mother tied her left hand behind her back so that she would use her right more. People didnt' know alot about right-brain/left-brain stuff back then. The left hand was "sinister" (Latin meaning left), and was considered evil after the part in the bible where it says: the goats, He will put on his left, and the sheep, to his right. I don't know if goats are supposed to be evil or not, but man, the people sure took it that way. The thing about that though, is if you are looking at God, the sheep go on your left, and the goats go on your right. Also, in the Middle East, using your left hand to eat is the ultimate insult because in those countries, they had no toilet paper, so guess what they used?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywolly Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 As far as being cured? Hams get cured. Speaking of, there'll likely be a group for homosexual hams soon. "Do you like to pork pork? Well, come on down to Christ's Corral of Holy Rectitude and we'll suss the fuss right out of ya! With our tried and true methods of misinformation, proselytizing and righteousness, we'll make your porking days a piggily-wiggily memory. If you want to keep your soul from getting fried up in perdition and rotating on the eternal spit of damnation, give us a jingle. We’ll be glad to condemn you to hell if ya don’t!" *ahem* Where the hell did that come from? Let's say we decide tomorrow that being left handed is horrible and that if you're smart, you'll either learn to be right handed, or you'll pretend you can't write at all. Will I be unhappy? You betcha, but funny, when it was acceptable to be left handed, I didn't have a problem. Yes, it was out of the norm and there were times when sissors and canopeners were a bit difficult for me... and I lived with having ink stains on my hands, but for the most part, I wasn't depressed about it. It was just something about me. I'm left handed too. My mom's a righty, my dad's a lefty. In fact, my dad flunked out of 3rd grade (in 1957) because his teacher gave him a zero on his homework, schoolwork, anything if he completed it with his left hand. So, he muddled through another year writing with his right until he moved on, then he switched back to the left hand again. It frustrated him, but his parents, both right handed, told him to do as the teacher said. For this very reason, he made a point, with my brother and I, to put our toys, bottle, etc into our right hand so we wouldn't have to put up with the same frustration. Those 2 years, affected him that much. Do you know what we kids did? We put everything back in our left hand just as God intended. We are both left handed. What worries me the most is that I believe these groups are totally sincere, I believe they think they're doing a great service to these poor misguided souls. That's what my dad's teacher thought she was doing. She thought she was doing something good for him because his life would be more difficult being a lefty. She thought that being left handed meant that there was something WRONG with him. Look at the difference 50 years made. I hope she lived long enough to know how uninformed she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melody Fate Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I really didn't find it offensive, sorry. I've seen worse, and I thought it was going to be about bashing, but *whew* what a relief. Considering what a high-risk group gays are, I would think that one or two of them would want to find a way out of that life-style. 456 hits on the site, half of them from this thread, no doubt. I can't imagine that it could do much. Sorry, I might have been misleading. As I said above, one of my big problems is that I really do feel that this group is all being done out of genuine concern. What worries me is that it's still sending a message that if your sexual preferences don't match the rest of society, you are somehow flawed and need to be cured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acita Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 My first girlfriend, whom I had met in high school, was sent to her pastor after her parents began suspecting she was up to 'no good' during her early teen years. He scared the bejeezus out of her with ideas of burning in hell and being raped by slaves to the sin of lust for eternity, forcing her into a mental state in which she couldn't help being lesbian, couldn't come out about it, and ultimately hated herself for it. When we broke up (for reasons having to do with her emotional insecurity) I pleaded with her to seek out counseling that had no religious affiliations whatsoever. From what I hear she has made some progress, though I sincerely doubt she'll ever be content with herself. Cured? No. Hiding her 'unholy' behavior by fucking her up even more? Absolutely. As for me, I follow a religion where the dieties change genders at will, so I really don't have this problem of 'moral conflict'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paranoid Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 What worries me is that it's still sending a message that if your sexual preferences don't match the rest of society, you are somehow flawed and need to be cured. These people who try to 'cure' truly do see anything beyond misonary postion as not only something dirty but something evil that they could so easily slide into if lead to that tempation. Yes, they think changing your sexuall leanings is like sliding on a new pair of shoes and must be on gaurd at all times. I always like to ask, 'So, when did you wake up one day and decide to be straigt?' The response I usually get is People also belive that the GLBs and to a point Transgendered (most have no clue what that is about) have an actuall agenda to take over the world. They see no difference between 'I love this man', 'I like to rape 4 year olds' and 'I want to marry my dog.' I have begun to temper my reaction with 'as long as they are consenting adults.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike256bit Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I think my jaw hit the floor when Santorum related same-sex marriage to wanting to marry a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Okay... according to these people I have something like a disease. I wonder if it's contagious... <.< >.> SPREAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melody Fate Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Okay... according to these people I have something like a disease. Ew! you have COOTIES! Can you imagine? "Hi boss, I won't be in today, I'm feeling queer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywolly Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Ew! you have COOTIES! Can you imagine? "Hi boss, I won't be in today, I'm feeling queer." I'm using that the next time I play hookie!!! "I'm sorry, but I'm a little gay today. Yes, I seem to be under the lesbian. I was at an Elton John concert and he sneezed on me. Damn the luck." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 "Ma, the school's sending me home 'cause I appear to have the Gay and they don't want it to spread to other kids. Yeah,you know. Like that time I got lice!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Serenanna Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 ::bangs her head on a desktop:: It's stuff like this, along with my pastor being anti-video games, that made me stop believeing. I was friggen Brethern for goodness sake, one of the most tolerant Protestant groups out there, and it still got infected witht his extremeism. And people wonder why less and less people go to church. ::sighes:: I think the last times I even heard anything remotely religious was last month when I went to two funerals in a row . . . no wonder I was so depressed . . . Sere, who mourning her lost faith and still sinning regardless PS. If lust is a deadly sin, I must be a shambling undead by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoryJunkie Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 fortunately I've never been subject to sermons like that in church. The priest was more against the disparity between the rich and the poor, and how in this society, we give our children everything and at the same time spending so much time and money on 4x4's (Well, he was from China. He's retired now and his parents still send him letters wondering when he will get married....they have no idea!) I'm using that the next time I play hookie!!!"I'm sorry, but I'm a little gay today. Yes, I seem to be under the lesbian. I was at an Elton John concert and he sneezed on me. Damn the luck." Who knows what goes on under the surface? I believe that we all have the tendencies for "gayness", uninhibited behavior and general rebelliousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Who knows what goes on under the surface? I believe that we all have the tendencies for "gayness", uninhibited behavior and general rebelliousness. See, I come from a general belief that there are an extreme few who are COMPLETLY heterosexual or COMPLETLY homosexual. I think everyone is in varying(sp?) shades of "bi." In fact, to restrict one's self to only one or the other sounds rather foolish to me. :: shrugs :: And of course, inhibitions are generally borne of the fear of ones more base desires and tendancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoryJunkie Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 But then, how do you explain the lesson of the aphid? When there are no males around, a female WILL BECOME a male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Evil_Labs Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 A lot of religious folk believe that all life exists specifically to serve them in one way or another, so how it operates is irrelevant to their beliefs. That way, they can ignore it when you point out that homosexual behavior exists in a large number of animal species. A logical debate with most religious people is a lost cause because they don't use logic to support their beliefs; faith is more important than fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike256bit Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 At my school you're gay until proven straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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