swirlingdoubt

What the heck is a pantser?
Desiderius Price and BronxWench, I never thought of using images to help with inspiration and description. That seems very effective. I will try that.
Participating in RP helped a lot with character development as sort of a sandbox for the way a character might behave and act. Being able to bounce them off others can make them more fleshed out and creative since you can put them in situations that you wouldn’t have anticipated. I came up with a lot of characters RPing with friends when I was younger, although we stopped doing that after high school (a favorite was a Christmas horror theme where a sugar plum “fairy” terrorizes... – hm, might be a good one for a Christmas submittal here ).
I’m glad I’m not the only one that suffers with too much planning. Thanks for detailing your processes.
The only thing I write beforehand is dreams that can be used for plots. If I don’t write those down 10 minutes after I wake up, I forget them. Some of my best ideas, including a story I’m working on now, have actually been my subconscious talking. For some reason, my dreams tend towards comedy, puns, and satire that is far more clever than what I can come up with when awake...

A pantser is basically someone who writes by the seat of their pants. They don’t put too much effort into the outline, preferring things to evolve more organically. There are pros and cons to this, just as with anything. I believe with pantsing, you get much better characterization. Whereas a strong outliner would get much better plot with a greater ability to do twists and turns.
@InvidiaRed Have you really outlined the whole story, or just been very meticulous with the setting? Cause that in itself is a bit different as well.

What the heck is a pantser?
Desiderius Price and BronxWench, I never thought of using images to help with inspiration and description. That seems very effective. I will try that.
Participating in RP helped a lot with character development as sort of a sandbox for the way a character might behave and act. Being able to bounce them off others can make them more fleshed out and creative since you can put them in situations that you wouldn’t have anticipated. I came up with a lot of characters RPing with friends when I was younger, although we stopped doing that after high school (a favorite was a Christmas horror theme where a sugar plum “fairy” terrorizes... – hm, might be a good one for a Christmas submittal here ).
I’m glad I’m not the only one that suffers with too much planning. Thanks for detailing your processes.
The only thing I write beforehand is dreams that can be used for plots. If I don’t write those down 10 minutes after I wake up, I forget them. Some of my best ideas, including a story I’m working on now, have actually been my subconscious talking. For some reason, my dreams tend towards comedy, puns, and satire that is far more clever than what I can come up with when awake...

Very much a pantser. I do have a general idea of the ending I’m aiming for, but if I start analyzing the desires and antagonists and obstacles too much it stifles instead of making sparkles. Only in the last week did a revisit of old character friends made the story really flow.  I work so much  better as a pantser, but that leads to bigger  issues for longer pieces.  Short ones are usually light on those qualities like theme, development, and world building so I think I’m okay.
I’m trying to figure out why my fanfic has gotten so much less spontaneous… and why my originals I’ve made so hard.  I suspect it’s because the results of two novel length pantsing ended up messes and wasted of all the time spent on them.  I desperately need an editor, but budget-wise that won’t happen anytime soon unless I win a lotto. So I muddle through as best I can with the occasional opinions. I love a good review that points out things… at least once I calm down. :p 
I get ideas from anything, and keeping them long enough to get them recorded is an issue. I break ideas into fandom/series and a bucket for original ideas.  When I finish a story i may take a day or two to relax, and then check my idea files. That is best case, sometimes a plot bunny will not let go, hence a Neverwinter sequel has displaced my NaNo projects for the moment.
Usually I have at least two active stories and one or two a semi active. (right now, active original, three active Star Wars, and a Neverwinter… NaNo has kicked my muse into high gear but not the direction I planned on) On a good week I post for two stories, on a bad one, nothing. (that is one thing about NaNo that leaves me antsy, I may not post anything that month)
Once I have the basic idea down I usually have the starting point and a major plot arc. That can usually be sumarized in a single sentence or so, no matter the final intended length.
Names, quirks, background, etc I make up as I need it. I use highlighting to mark areas to fill in and clean up later, staying a bit generic. ‘Search and replace’ is my friend. character studies killed my muse dead in 2010. There are random generators too for lots of details.
I concentrate on the story flow and love cliffhangers, and hiding the answer in plain sight where I hope it was overlooked.  Pushing and concealing answers in the story, means I prefer 1st person for the same reason its favored by mystery writers: a fair mystery!  I don’t want characters to look incompetent in any genre by making the events too obvious.  I also don’t want the readers to get frustrated because the reader didn’t know some obscure fact like one car doesn’t come in stick shift that year, so the clues should be given to the character and reader. That is a tricky balance and sometimes I lean toward underexplaining.
One of my bigger problems is that I have too much going on in the last chapter so it ends up huge. But finishing a story is important so every one is a victory. The next big problem is editing and selling, but that’s more a publishing challenge than a writing one as I see the 1st draft as foundation and blueprint. All the revision in the world can’t help if it wasn’t written down.

I am very much a pantser. I’ll come up with an idea, a setting, and characters, and start going from there. I’ve had character arcs shift from original ideas and outlines entirely because it was what was working as I wrote. Current story I’m still not entirely sure what’s going to happen with one of my major characters and if she’ll be hero or villain. To me I find if I go too close to any kind of outline, things get a bit too wooden.

I am something of a pantser when I write by myself. When I co-author with someone else, I keep copious notes, but left to my own devices, I let my characters tell the story. It’s not even remotely efficient, but it’s how my brain works best when I don’t have someone else to bounce ideas off. The only thing I might make notes for are certain elements of the backstory, like pantheons, place names, and a very, VERY rough timeline. Otherwise, I wing it madly.
I also do collect pictures as mental prompts, which I save to private boards on my Pinterest, just to fuel the imagination a bit, or aid me in describing something. I’m very visual in many respects, even if I prefer not to describe my characters in such minute detail as to rob readers of a chance to imagine the characters themselves.

Kinda like when you RPG
you have to get a feel for the character or characters.
Keep a general idea. events usually happen that will get you from point a to point b.
The last time I tried to be meticulous about it I rage quit and deleted the entire thing.  The only notable exception is Oceania in general. Haha.
 

Hey there,
I’m curious how other writers develop their ideas into a full story. What is your process?
When I was a teenager, I was daydreaming all the time and stories ran though my mind like films non-stop. I could only write via computer or typewriter because handwriting was too “slow”. One of my favorite instruments was a handheld word processor that I got from a library (does anyone remember those?). I didn’t have access to a computer unless I went to a public library, so often times a story would be stewing in my head for weeks and when I finally had a keyboard in front of me it would spill out in one go – then the editing process could begin with a wealth of material. When I have access to a computer to write whenever I wanted, I barely wrote at all. I realized a story must sit in my head for a long time before I can write it. I can’t write character sheets or outlines or summaries, otherwise the story dies.
It seems like everyone is going to have a different method to get their ideas out. It’d be interesting to hear how your methods developed over time or how you discovered them!

I remember those word processers. My parents hHad a similar one in the house until we got our 486 PC in about ‘94/95, and then it probably went into a cupboard or classified ad.
With my shorter flashfics up to 1000 words I often just have a rough idea, or a bit of word play, or a shit joke, and start typing to see what happens. Sometimes something pretty good happens. Other times it’s a load of horse cock.
With my longer stories I’ve tended to come up with as many ideas and concepts to use, type ‘em in a text file, and then try and get them into a rough chapter plan order to work out how I’m going to do it, the plan will often include turns of phrase I’ve thought up to use. The plan will also sometimes get mixed around a bit with things being moved to other chapters or deleted. My current story plan is messed up a bit because I’ve found I can’t fit everything I wanted in part 3, so I’m rejigging part 4 and so on. Even with all that I sometimes have a really hard time getting things down as they are in my head. I sometimes sit here for minutes trying to find the right frigging word that’s on the tip of my tongue – sometimes I try and google for it. I don’t have any character sheets either, which probably means I’ll contradict the shit out of myself one of these days.
Another thing with me was I did a lot of request stories for other people, and for some of those they had a paragraph or two about what they wanted to see so that part of the work was already done, in a way. To take an example from the forum – If I did one of T_B’s requests, say. These usually have a plot outline, a few details of characters to be included, and indicate the main fetish or fetishes involved. All I’d be doing there would be hanging the descriptions and whatever perversity occurs to me off that skeleton, and crediting T_B for it. I guess with requests like that, it’s like someone’s dug down three feet by six and you the author just have to dig another three by six. Sometimes it could be difficult because I’d say to the requester, “What about if X does Y?” and they’d say that they would never know arousal again, you monster, Harry would never felch Amelia, but otherwise it’s basically easier developing someone else’s story idea with those.
 

When I started my potter fic many years ago, I did make some notes, etc, including “behind the scenes” shorts to the other side.  Now that I’ve decided to restart that story, fifteen years later, I’ve been finding those notes useful, invaluable actually, in restarting it with some consistency.  Overall, if it’s important to the story, or good backstory, I do write it down, either on paper, or in the computer.  I even have a database for my original works.  Another invaluable file I have, from years ago, is a spreadsheet for the potter story.  Given its size, I had columns for each of the major/significant charactors, a row per day of the story, and for those interesting days, a thing or two about what was happening – useful, very useful, to refer to.  (And, now that I’m revising, I’ve got some of the older drafts too.)
As to writing the story itself, words definitely flow more easily at a keyboard, especially if I’ve got “inspirational pictures” up onthe rest of the computer monitor.  Now, I don’t start with a comprehensive story outline….NO!  I will write any key scenes, have a rough idea, and refine it as I write.  So, this next section to the current chapter I’m working on, yesterday, I came up with a few points to write to, so I give one sentence snippets, and I’ll likely write to those goals as I work tonight/tomorrow at it.  Any “later” ideas that I don’t have a spot yet, will loiter as one-liners in the rough order I intend, until I reach them.

In my time here, I’ve seen very few instances of severe trolling or flaming. I really believe it occurs in certain subdomains more than others (and in some not at all) and generally revolves around someone daring to write something other than the OTP of the reader, or in some way bashing (or failing to bash) a specific character. Think Weasley-bashing in the harry Potter subdomain, or the fixation on Sasuke cuckolding Naruto in that subdomain. Aside from those instances, the flaming and trolling has been minimal here, maybe because we tend to moderate actively and we deal with flamers and trolls quickly.
We do have limitations here that other sites don’t have, such as not allowing authors to reply to review on their review board, but one advantage to our forums is that only the author needs to be a member to create a review reply thread. Non-members can read and reply freely, and we’ve completely fine with including the url to your review reply thread in the story. I sometimes include it as a footnote AN, just a quick lime letting readers know (right above that handy link) that I do like reviews, so please drop me a line. I do allow anonymous reviews, and I’ve never really regretted doing so, even given that I’m sure to piss people off on a regular basis as a moderator who might have warned their story or even hidden it.
But concrit?  Good solid concrit is my favorite thing in the world, and I still haven’t forgiven Shadowknight12  for vanishing and not leaving me his wonderful, and very useful concrit. Snarky paladins aren’t what they used to be, that’s for damned sure.

Hm – I have to challenge this a little bit. It does create another barrier because in order to leave a review, a person without an account must sign up for one, log in, find the story again, and then leave a review. That is a lot to ask for someone that might not be in the habit of reviewing fiction. I’ve only had two reviews, and for one of them, I am sure the person created an account just to leave the review. They have no work on AFF, and created the account the day they left the review. That is impressive to me that they went to the trouble – of course, I have no way to thank them except via the review thread on the forum, but who knows if they would even know to look for that or see it. I would need to advertise within the text of the document, which I didn’t quite understand for posting a first story. We are all sort of working against the limitations of the website (no fault there, just maintaining this database on a shoe-string budget is impressive).
Anyway, I realized most of the dragon prints are likely from people without accounts and no desire to sign up for one. I don’t judge them for that.
More on topic: Lack of feedback means I’ll keep doing how I do. It doesn’t de-motivate me not to get it, but skilled, constructive feedback would likely improve my writing. However, I have no expectations that I should get such feedback unless I hire an editor or get a beta reader.

Hey there,
I’m curious how other writers develop their ideas into a full story. What is your process?
When I was a teenager, I was daydreaming all the time and stories ran though my mind like films non-stop. I could only write via computer or typewriter because handwriting was too “slow”. One of my favorite instruments was a handheld word processor that I got from a library (does anyone remember those?). I didn’t have access to a computer unless I went to a public library, so often times a story would be stewing in my head for weeks and when I finally had a keyboard in front of me it would spill out in one go – then the editing process could begin with a wealth of material. When I have access to a computer to write whenever I wanted, I barely wrote at all. I realized a story must sit in my head for a long time before I can write it. I can’t write character sheets or outlines or summaries, otherwise the story dies.
It seems like everyone is going to have a different method to get their ideas out. It’d be interesting to hear how your methods developed over time or how you discovered them!

This is Canada, DP. Our angry mobs favour the hockey stick.

There’s a very strange correlation I’ve noticed over the years when it comes to reading on a free archive. Unless you make it almost stupidly easy and nearly unavoidable to leave feedback, readers won’t bother. I’m going to hazard a few guesses as to why.
First, I think most readers don’t really know what sort of feedback to leave. They see writers grumbling about the “Loved it! Write more!” reviews which don’t offer the writer a clue as to what the reader loved about a story, or chapter, but at least affirm someone read it and liked it.
Second, it could be where and/or when the reader is reading your work. On the way to work? Right before bed? Maybe it’s not a good time to leave a comment, and the reader plans to come back later and review, and… I am personally guilty of this one.
Third, the Review [insert story name] link is at the bottom of each chapter, but it’s small, and easily missed. It’s also frequently confused with the Report Story link, as I can attest based on the number of reviews I get in the guise of abuse reports. And yes, I do ask the reporter to leave the comment as a review for the author, but I can’t do it myself, sadly.
And finally, people like quick buttons. The “Like” buttons on FB and Twitter have conditioned people to want to be able to just leave that instant feedback. It’s fast and requires no thought. We had a ratings feature here, but because it was scaled, it was abused more often than it should have been by readers voting down a story because it wasn’t the One True Ship, or other nonsense. I personally would be fine with a button which only records a “like” or “recommend” on a story. If you don’t like it, there’s no option for abuse. You simply don’t click.
One factor I don’t think really matters is the notion of allowing anonymous reviews. It’s an account-wide choice here, so you can’t cherry-pick which stories on which to allow anon reviews. Allowing them opens you to trolls and flamers, and disallowing them discourages readers who aren’t logged in, or who might not even have archive profiles. But I think it is probably the least relevant factor in getting feedback.

I’m going to be the fly in the ointment here, and comment on the notion of skipping an editor when self publishing. Unless you are supremely confident you can catch POV shifts, and have buttoned every thread up, unless you know you haven’t slipped in the chronology, and events take place in a reasonable/explainable span of time, unless you are self-aware enough to pick up on repetitive phrasing and overuse of certain words and phrases, you need an editor. (I tend to be vague about time lapses, and I’m insanely obstinate about abusing certain words myself. I try to make it up to my editor by being quick to turn around the comments, and not whine a lot about the work I need to do to fix my mess.  )
I like to check out new authors, and I do a lot of poking about on blogs and review sites, where I can see a bit of an excerpt. I might be captured by a summary, but when I read the excerpt, if I hit that wall because even in those roughly 500 words I encounter sloppy editing, I don’t buy that book. Why? Because sometimes the poor editing is enough to take me out of the story, and I wind up wanting to leave the author a review begging them to pull the book, and have it edited as a mercy to readers. I’m far less forgiving when I’m asked to pay for work that hasn’t seen a beta reader, much less an editor and proofreader. It’s unprofessional, and it’s sloppy to put a book out there, ask for my money, and give me something that looks like a first draft of a manuscript. I can read better here for free, thank you.
The preponderance of us in this thread write original work, which is why I’m sort of focusing on this. Self publishing is not a bad thing, but having a bad review or sharp concrit here is one thing. Having it happen on Amazon is crushing for authors who could be really good, with some editing and polishing.

Definitely! I’d say that not getting feedback will affect not only ur motivation but ur writing skills too. If u don’t get constructive feedback you will never know if u did anything wrong or if u overlooked something or how to improve. I have to say that getting a beta improved my writing skills a ton! (thanks clovey and tcr) Not only cuz they fixed ma shit but they pointed out my mistakes and I could learn from them.
But yeah not getting any feedback has done a number on my motivation and I am no longer in any rush to finish any of my work or post it. I thought about the hook in my 1st chapter but I have to say I think it is sufficient enough for the story itself. The only other option would be changing the story which is the road I refuse to travel down. It’s not worth it for me.
The only advice I can give is check out if the summary and the hook in ur 1st chapter is sufficient
I gotta say it’s really sad that a lot of readers just don’t care enough to leave reviews. I’m was often guilty of this myself but now I try to be more active with stories I really like.

I actually changed a story I was publishing because my editor thought it needed some things to make it more, I don’t know, appealing, or relevant, or engaging. I forget the word exactly. But the changes never felt right to me, and now that the book’s been accepted for republication, I went back and deleted all the stuff I added at that editor’s urging. The thing is, I never really got feedback from readers non this book, so I have no real idea if they liked those bits or hated them, but I’m much happier with the manuscript without them, so… I’m taking a deep breath and going with my gut.

I don’t think so, but I’ll find out. We’d gotten into a discussion of my favorite pie shop, but they’re English pies and don’t have the requisite gravy to make them edible in Australia.  But, hey, Brooklyn!

Oh, I wouldn’t change that. It was clear enough once I got to that bit that she was in a dream state, and I felt a bit sorry for her that she’d woken before getting a chance to experience her own orgasm.  I love doing exactly what you’re doing—flashfic chapters with a plot to hold them together—and I miss having enough free time to do those, but yeah… Anyway, I’ll be waiting happily for part 3, and happier knowing I won’t be taking an endless subway ride to the lower reaches of Manhattan whilst daydreaming happily about misbehaving midwives.  (Of course, the epic “Fred Gets Fingering” might ensure I miss my stop and wind up in the bowels of Brooklyn. The only upside to that is Melrick having discovered an Aussie-style pie shop in Brooklyn which looks worthy of a visit. :D)
But anyway, keep writing, and I’ll keep reading! (See, you have a stalker-y sort of fan-wench…   )
 

I’m sorry to disappoint and say that I don’t accept commissions, and it’s not just because AFF has a rule against them. Although that’s part of it. I have always been fuck awful with deadlines, and variable in quality and never felt that taking money for my original writing would be fair, nevermind abusing someone else’s intellectual property for gain (instead of for shits and giggles as with my freely produced fanfic).
I’m sure you can find an author with higher self-regard and no moral qualms to do it outside AFF. Probably even inside AFF if the mods aren’t looking.
On the free request front I’m afraid I’m too busy to start on Lady Grantham filth at the moment (although I’m sure O’Brien getting a firm bare bottomed spanking from her Ladyship would have gone down well with prime time audiences)– If you have specific ideas for a Downton Abbey story I would suggest starting a thread in the TV challenges/requests subforum and seeing if anybody is able to take ‘em. It does happen. Occasionally.
On the plus side, there’s going to be more bicycle riding in part 3 of Corrupt the Midwife!
Thank you for your review!
It’s a quality bike that is, none of your cheap rubbish. Cobbled streets, gyroscopic-like ability to stay upright, and a saddle that seemingly self adjusts for the rider are just the ticket to get a well bred midwife dripping like a fucked fridge, as the poet chappy has it. There’s a physical influence on Chummy – the riding is getting her body aroused which in turn has a distracting impact on her mind.
It’s not meant to be mind control, free will is important for what’s happening, she has to make choices, like the choice to respond to kissing, and to go along with Jenny’s sudden sexual advances – but it’s all visions in her mind, sort of like showing her her possibilities, testing how she reacts while physically aroused and faced with willing offers and of course building her long repressed lusts to the old fever pitch but with orgasm denial. Sort of like a lucid dream where if she cottons on to it being a dream she can be more actively in control. She could be keener to ask questions during the next erotic reverie, and probably actively angry during a third, perhaps suggesting that whatever’s behind it is somewhat lacking in direct experience at the corruption gig. Bit new to the role. No doubt Chummy’s heightened-lust fuelled imagination is focussing on other midwives due to mining Chummy’s half forgotten teenage dreams about girls from her school. And not just because I fancied writing femmeslash. Ok, mostly that.
She definitely has a good imagination, I’d say. I might change the last line of dialogue in the dreamstate though. It’s supposed to indicate Chummy being ‘woken’ before she gets off (the orgasm denial thing), not that it was being directed, but I don’t think the intent is clear. Definitely one of the bits I’m not entirely happy with in part 2, and generally I’m finding it tough going pulling the overriding ideas into a coherant whole that makes sense. Still, if I fuck it up with huge plot holes and the whole thing proving pointless as a plot, there’ll at least be some fair to middling bits of porn description and fun dialogue to pull out. I am trying to do each part completely in a week, a bit like the old dribs drabs prompt style (though cheating on the order of prompts and knowing what comes next).
I’m really glad you’re enjoying it and finding it captivating and I hope other readers like it too! If I ever get on to do my Ball the Midwife idea, at least that one won’t be femmeslash! And I’m sure it would be better received than an epic tale of “Fred Gets Fingering”.
Fingers crossed part 3 is done by next weekend! Unless I spend all my time reading other stories or get another review and ramble on like this in reply. Which could happen. Maybe. The rambling, I mean, not the review.
Thank you once again for the second review, I am truly grateful.

Your fics are a real bash! Don’t take a trip to Downsville on account of those high standards or that‘s bad news. You razz my berries, chicky-boom.
I know it’s just the title, but I keep having Scissor Sister’s “Bicycling with the Devil” stuck in my head when I read that story. Which is a song no one should ever use as a reference. 
I wish more people would review on this site, then I would feel less obnoxious reviewing multiple chapters. 

Storyline development is fine, but something as long as my senior thesis isn't something I'm going to read unless it's in print. Babisko asked for opinions, I gave mine as a reader. Yours may differ.
We're talking about reading online - that's my opinion.

Working Title: Sherlock Homeboy
Fandom: Sherlock Holmes
Plot: Sherlock Langston Holmes is a poor teenager from Chicago's South Side. He has a gift for solving crimes that variously earns him respect and enmity in his community and among the police. He survives by his wits and with the help of his best friend, Johnny Watson, a varsity linebacker who dreams of one day going to medical school.
Fatal flaws:
1. There's no story here -- characters and setting, but no plot.
2. I don't know jack about what life is like for poor black teenagers on the South Side.
3. Does anybody still say “homeboy”?
Keeping or abandoning? Abandoning

Definitely nothing obnoxious about it. A lot of folks on here love to have someone review every chapter. And come back later and re-review. Although tracking down writers in person and requesting they write a specific story while muttering about dirty birdies is a step too far. Thanks again for your interest!
I had Soundgarden’s Black Hole Sun in my head while I was writing, which has nothing to do with cycling at all.
Well, pedal on part 3 where readers may be enlightened to know “Gosh you’re rather tight,” could just mean “You’re a bit drunk” back in ‘57 London.