ApolloImperium

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Guest Missymoo11

Yeah they are doing that but a lot of authors are pissed off that there stories that they work hard on and that are probably over 100,000 words because of one little slip are getting deleted with no warning! I mean if they asked them to change the part or get rid of it they would but you just don't get rid of someone's story they probably word on it really hard. And for it to just disappear is a little messed up if you ask me!

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Let me put it this way:

Movie theaters are a place for everyone to go and enjoy films. Some of those films are rated for mature audiences ® and anyone under seventeen (unless they've changed this requirement) cannot purchase a ticket for them or attend a showing without an adult present. Just because some films hosted in said theaters are for children does NOT make that theater FOR children. Say a kid gets a fake ID and sneaks into an "R" rated film. Should the producer of said film be banned from showing his or her movies at that theater again? Should the movie itself be removed from the theater, because someone's kid snuck into it despite the rating and now the parents are irate?

Of course not. Parents attempting to sue a theater for showing an "R" rated film would be laughed out of court, and there's only so much a theater (or any establishment) can do to detect under-aged visitors.

Despite the fact that billions of under-aged people sneak into theaters, buy smokes and alcohol worldwide despite clear warnings that these products are not for those under a certain age, somehow beer still manages to get sold, R-rated films are still featured and cigarettes are still available to all.

If Fanfiction.net wants to become a "Teen and under" site, that's fine. They can't logically do so while allowing an "M" rating, though.

I'll leave you with a quote that I think really highlights this issue:

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it" — Mark Twain.

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I will quote Lisbet Adair from the other thread because I think it sums this up perfectly!

It was pretty clear earlier this year, when I looked at joining, what their TOS were; this is why I came across to AFF and joined that.

Sure, you could take a punt on them changing their rules to incorporate MA, but you backed the wrong horse, and this is where you ended up.

No sympathy for anyone who broke their rules and is now whinging because they couldn't stick "adult fan fiction" into Google.

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@GintaxAlvissforever:

Firstly, no, there's no Kid Icarus section yet in Games. However - we make it easy on you to request one. Please read the pinned topics there first to show you the format needed.

Second, click this link. That's your user control panel on the site. If you see a login box, then you'll need to login - do not use the boxes in the middle - reference tech post

Third, read the FAQs here on how to do things in the archive.

Fourth, we're available. The staff of the site is visible, and we're always willing to help you. We do ask that you read the materials laid out for you in the FAQs. Apollo, DG and Melrick took great pains to make sure they were as understandable as possible, but if there is something that is confusing, don't hesitate to ask. If it's confusing for you, it might be confusing for someone else also.

Lastly, though I'm no advocate of FFN and we can't stress enough that this site is completely and wholly separate from theirs, just because "everyone else" was posting MA material doesn't mean their ToS allowed it.

Welcome to AFF, and happy writing!

(edited to add link to known center login post)

Edited by RogueMudblood

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Guest guest user

I strongly disagree that it isn't in part a parenting issue. Fanfiction.net is not a kiddie site and it never has been. It's a general fanfiction site, and if it were only meant for children then they would not allow a huge chunk of the fandoms they host in the first place. It's not unreasonable to suggest that a site which seems not to want mature content to simply REMOVE the "M" rating and thus eliminate any confusion over such things. Hosting Mature rated content but expecting people not to upload mature content is two-faced, at best. They're best off just dropping the rating system down to teen and lower, if they need to devise a different standard for what "M" ratings actually mean.

And YES, it is irresponsible for parents to complain about their offspring reading mature content on a site that allows mature rated material. I'm amazed anyone would actually try to argue that. I've made it clear on my website that my stories are for mature audiences and I'll be DAMNED if any lazy, irrational, unreasonable "parent" ever gets me to censor my own work because their offspring defied my ratings and warnings.

This is not something that should even be argued about. Parents should raise their kids, not the internet. If a site wants to allow minors without a filtering system, they should not allow mature content or ratings, period. Fanfiction.net did so in an effort to draw more traffic, and it worked. Now they have turned around and decided they don't want Mature content after all, yet they contradict themselves. As I said in an earlier post, Battlestar Galactica isn't porn, yet there IS SEX AND VIOLENCE AND BLOOD. It is an "M" rated show. According to FF.net's warped standards, shows like BSG should not even be listed on their fandom list. It's bullshit.

I strongly disagree that it isn't in part a parenting issue. Fanfiction.net is not a kiddie site and it never has been. It's a general fanfiction site, and if it were only meant for children then they would not allow a huge chunk of the fandoms they host in the first place. It's not unreasonable to suggest that a site which seems not to want mature content to simply REMOVE the "M" rating and thus eliminate any confusion over such things. Hosting Mature rated content but expecting people not to upload mature content is two-faced, at best. They're best off just dropping the rating system down to teen and lower, if they need to devise a different standard for what "M" ratings actually mean.

And YES, it is irresponsible for parents to complain about their offspring reading mature content on a site that allows mature rated material. I'm amazed anyone would actually try to argue that. I've made it clear on my website that my stories are for mature audiences and I'll be DAMNED if any lazy, irrational, unreasonable "parent" ever gets me to censor my own work because their offspring defied my ratings and warnings.

This is not something that should even be argued about. Parents should raise their kids, not the internet. If a site wants to allow minors without a filtering system, they should not allow mature content or ratings, period. Fanfiction.net did so in an effort to draw more traffic, and it worked. Now they have turned around and decided they don't want Mature content after all, yet they contradict themselves. As I said in an earlier post, Battlestar Galactica isn't porn, yet there IS SEX AND VIOLENCE AND BLOOD. It is an "M" rated show. According to FF.net's warped standards, shows like BSG should not even be listed on their fandom list. It's bullshit.

It's not an adult website either. If it were, then membership would be 18+, not 13+. The issue is that it's against the law to allow minors to join a site that allows adult content. This is an old law, not something new. Adult content has never been allowed on sites that allow minors to join. It's illegal and since ff.net allows membership down to 13 years of age, then no, they can't legally host adult content on that site. And it's been in their ToS for ten years that MA content is not allowed. It's plainly there that explicit sexual content, violence, or language isn't allowed. I agree with you that they shouldn't have hosted it if it was a problem. I personally feel it was pretty irresponsible of the mods not to enforce their own ToS or explain it better to people. But just because they never enforced their ToS doesn't mean people are right or not responsible for complying with it. I get that a lot of people are mad, but it was their choice to ignore the ToS in the first place. Just because you don't agree with a site's ToS doesn't mean you don't have to comply with their rules. Or just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you should too. FF.net isn't doing anything illegal by pulling content down they feel doesn't belong on their site. They have a right to do that without warning or reason. Doesn't mean they should, but it's their right to do so, especially since it's a ToS violation.

And the reason why a parent may allow their teenager to join ff.net in the first place is that the ToS states that MA content isn't allowed. That's not the same as stating in your own website that it's not appropriate for minors. I didn't say anything about websites that plainly state they host adult content on them. I agree that it's a parent's responsibility to make sure their teen doesn't join or get on adult websites. That is their responsibility. And they don't have the right to complain or expect other people to take adult content down on a site that legally hosts it. My point was that ff.net claims it doesn't allow adult content on its site, regardless if it has in the past. It's not an adult website therefore if it chooses to allow teens on the site, it can't allow MA rated stories. Since it's illegal to do so, the site could get shut down because of that. I never said anything about little kids joining or that ff.net was a kiddie site. I only pointed out that since it allows teens to join and states in the ToS that no adult content is allowed, how is it the parent's fault if they feel the site is safe for their teen when ff.net is claiming that it is?

There are plenty of parenting issues around the internet and a lot of parents who do need to take responsiblity and raise their kids. But, the issues going down on ff.net is not a parenting issue but and issue of a poorly moderated site by mods who don't seem to respect or care for their user base.

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There's a lot of guides in the FAQ section. I personally found the RTE guide to work better. The Upload way failed on me for some reason, but it might've just been a fluke.

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Crud... I can't edit my last post. My last post was a response to

Uh, it's not fair. I've been with FF.Net for 6 years and they're removing my stories saying it's MA. I've been falling their rules for all these years and now they're saying I'm not? That's not fair! D:

So, how do I upload stories here...and I doubt there's a Kid Icarus section at all.

But I didn't realize it wasn't the last page...

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@Ajwf - on the bottom of your post, you should see "Report" "Edit" "Delete" as links then "Multiquote" and "Quote" as buttons. Clicking "Edit" will open up the text window to edit the post :)

As to why you couldn't upload - as the FAQ shows, it's txt files only that can be uploaded. If you're trying to upload doc, docx or odt files, or any other format, it won't work. Also, note that if you're uploading a txt, as the FAQ states, it must contain the HTML codes for paragraph breaks and such, or it will appear as what we refer to as wall o' text.

sidenote: to your shout box statement about the "un" stories - that's what the forum is for. We've explained to the best of our ability: the archive was being held together by DG's force-of-will alone. Cutting out extraneous posts (story searches, primarily) helped cut down on the size of the database. That helped to keep it in check. Since you were underage then, you weren't here, so you didn't see the daily maintenance page where the archive had to basically shut down for a period of about an hour to run diagnostic tests. So things like story searches, preview stories that then redirected the users to another site, polls, flames (yes, several of those have been found as stories and deleted), etc - "un" stories, were only one of the things removed.

More information on the cleanup project itself can be found in the Site Announcements (specific link to the topic in question). Please, before you make a judgement about how something on the site is done, read the posts that will give you information about it. Once you've done that, if you still have a question as to why we ask for story searches, beta searches, RP requests and the like to be posted in the forums, then feel free to ask.

You will find, after reading through everything, that there was a major site crash (The Great Crash TM) which caused a great deal of data deconstruction. Most of the changes that have been implemented have been done to prevent another such crash.

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Guest KuroMitsu

*My iPod won't let me log in* I've been reading both here and on ffnet since 2007, and I joined both sites shortly after finding them. While I like features that ffnet has, lately all the commotion going on is getting hard to take there. The fandoms are getting clogged with petitions instead of actual updates, and two forums are under major fire for being responsible for the purging (Critics United and Literate Union). It's nice to know I can come here and not worry about all that drama when I just want to read fanfictions.

And another feature of this site that makes you guys (in my opinion) superior to ffnet is that you take offenders seriously. I've had my best friend ( who is more like my brother) actually run off ffnet last year due to someone harassing him. The person was reported multiple times over a two month period and nothing was done. I see other authors there who are experiencing similar situations, I've written admin myself but nothing changes. Same goes for plagiarists. Yet I've seen that happen here and the offender was banned in less than 24 hours. To me, that shows you guys care for your site members a lot, and I for one truly appreciate that. This site is awesome, and if I had to choose between only posting here or on ffnet, you win hands down.

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We're delighted to have you here! As a former FFN author myself, I wandered here to publish something that was beyond the FFN ratings limits, and was welcomed so warmly that I never left. :D

True that! :rofl: I haven't been on FFN for a long time--maybe close to 2 and a half years and just recently this week I decided to write a fanfiction for FFN. And somehow, while reading other FF, the authors notify some readers that FFN is very strict on the rating limits and have deleted some stories/accounts. Therefore, I was kind of sad about it but a reviewer and author mentioned this site. Which, I am glad to find a site like this for my FF story that will eventually go beyond the FFN ratings. Few! :rofl:

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Guest banana-x-phone

I have just recently come over here from ffdotnet and though I'm not getting any reviews on my content, I feel safe to post my content.

Thank you for the warm welcome, because in my prefered fandom there isn't really a community (that I have noticed) for it, and your warm welcome makes me feel part of the BIGGER community.

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Guest anonymous

I could see why they should have enforced the whole ma thing. I mean years ago when I was much younger, about 13 years old or 14 was when I started encountering ma content in sometimes t rated or sometimes m rated stories which at first didn't make sense to me at that time. Eventually I got what those stories meant, their implications. Had I known, I might have not read it since it gave me an open looker on what happens~ It can really do some damage as it did with me. But this is internet which is at most, impossible to control what kids see here. Leave a kid alone on the computer on the net can do wonders even if that child doesn't intentionally do it. I can see where the moderators are going as sad and depressing it sounds. How much more had it done the same to others? Despite all my complaints, I'm against removing all those stories. I just wish they could put on a ma rate. It was partially the moderators fault for not being more critical of their rules. So yeah, they shouldn't remove them. People could just have placed wherein people couldn't just view the ma rated ones easily like with a warning that it's a story for mature ones.

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They had an MA rating in 2002. The removed it and changed their ToS. That people continued to post stories there that violated there ToS is an issue that they are only just now correcting. As DG said:

Wellllll.....freedom of expression is all well and good, but the thing to remember is all these sites are privately owned. That means that we are obligated legally to do certain things. FFN to control their content better, and here at AFF, we actively look for, delete and BAN underagers.

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Guest Angry Anna

Okay, I'm quite frustrated today.

I returned recently from a semester in Tokyo and found that during that last semester three of the stories I posted on fanfiction.net had been removed. Perhaps I'm prejudiced - after all, I wrote them - but I did not feel they contained material that was too far into the MA rating. I learned about their removal when another writer on FFN, a woman from the UK, received warnings about her stories which were written over two year ago. The Harry Potter section has been hit particularly hard.

I understand there is a ToS at FFN, but from where I stand right now, it is NOT being enforced fairly. My stories were removed for referring to the male and female anatomy specifically. My friends stories were warned because she used the words "nipples" (and other words) in a sexually specific way. God forbid Hermione have a sexually specific thought about Draco.

And if they had removed all the "offensive" stories, it might be easier to accept. However, there is still a story on the FFN about a thirteen year old Prim (from The Hunger Games) having sex with the older Gale. When my friend pointed out that this story is "acceptable" and her story about Hermione is not, she received no response. Seriously???

Yes, FFN has a ToS. No, they did not enforce it. In fact, they received the benefit of it. What did they think all those people were reading when they came to their website? The Book of Mormon fanfiction?

Also, the application of their rating system left many of us thinking sexual discussion was allowed so long as it either (1) wasn't just pure gratuitous smut without any plot or romantic element or (2) if so, was clearly labeled as such. Many responsible writers clearly referenced their materials as sexual - and we are still being "punished." They act as if we - the writers - are to blame for how this situation evolved - as if we knew they wouldn't allow MA material (despite it still being a category on their rating system and there being hundreds of stories on their website with MA content) and we intentionally broke their rules.

It is frustrating because a number of stories I truly enjoyed - stories which I thought were well-written and much better than the "erotica" you have pay for on Amazon, are now gone. Just gone. My friend from the UK isn't going to post hers again because it's too much work and because, frankly, there is no website that has the readership and following that FFN did.

One final thought - because it is so utterly ridiculous to me. "I was hurt by what I read on Fanfiction.net" Oh please!!! Stay away from your public library then, sweet pea. Stay away from Anne Rice, Anais Nin, D. H. Lawrence, Vonnegut and a hundred other really great writers. I appreciated Xenobia's original comment about bubble wrap, because that's really what this is all about. Protect the innocents! Really? Any thirteen year old can walk into my local urban public library and check out books with more sexual content than is in most fanfictions.

I seriously feel as if I've been kicked out of the library. What an utterly pointless decision for FFN to make.

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Guest Mannah Pierce

I started off on AFF.net because I wanted to write a Naruto fanfic story with mature themes and some (actually quite tame) adult scenes.

This is still my first choice site. I appreciate that it has an Originals section and I have also posted one of my (rather old) stories there.

Only I got tempted to put the fanfic stories up on FF.net. I wanted more readers. And, yes, I was lazy. I did not delete the sex scenes.

So, last Thursday, I came home to find the story that is being currently posted (Leader) was gone and I was frozen out for 24 hours.

It wasn't the story going that hurt funnily enough. It was the reviews. Also, because I had not got it set for emailing me when someone put it on their alert list, I had no idea who was sitting there expecting their update. (I update twice a week.)

I had a tense 24 hours watching the two really long stories (91 chapters and 119 chapters), waiting for them to vanish before I had a chance to edit them. I did manage to copy the alert list and do a full download. It also allowed me to upload documents, so I was able to sort out the chapters that needed editing.

All done now. The scenes I considered too explicit have been replaced by oo******oo! There is still a lot left because they are stories (sagas really) and not PWPs.

I still think there is a chance that the stories will still be deleted because of the themes.

Oh well.

I really welcome more readers and writers to AFF.

And if there was ever a way of introducing pan-site search (across the domains) I think that would make a huge difference to the usability of the site.

Maybe the forums will be more popular now. Like this thread has been.

Also, today I started getting automated emails when a review was posted on AFF. That's the first time ever. Hurrah!

My thanks to those who run AFF.net and, yes, it is run, unlike FF.net.

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ty mannah! Yep, fixed the review notification issue yesterday (it'll be an ongoing manual task until the software is finished being rewritten and users can choose that for themselves). I don't know what it is with reviews, honestly. We encourage the users TO review. Of course, if they're CHILDREN visiting this site, they'll not review so they don't get caught. If you take a peek at moderation stats, you'll see exactly what I mean on that end...as far as how many are deleted all the time.

Because of how the tables are set up, even with the new engine in place (once we get to the upgraded search function), I'm not sure that it'll be feasible to do a search across all the subdomains for stories. Possibly, but we'll see. The concern there is that the query load for that kind of search can shut down the database server, because of too many queries run. Servers are set with a query limit per hour. With 8.2GB of data, we could easily exceed that limit. When the query limit is reached and/or exceeded, the server has to reset itself, which can take up to an hour. Which means nothing will work, at all. Most commonly, when you see "MySQL error, could not connect to the database" it's either caused by query overload, or misconfiguration. In this for instance, it would be query overload. So, I think you can see when the new search function using the better engine is implemented, we're going to be careful in just how that's done.

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Guest ClumsyPinkTiger

Like a few others that have already posted above, I too have moved my booty (double entendre full intended har-har) over from FF. I admit I am wonder how they could possibly police all the MA stories---even if there is real legal basis for it or not and am sad as well. But, I like it much better here so far anyway. It seems to fit my raunchy self so much better. Now I just need to make my profile less dull. Hi everyone!! *waves

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Guest Faerie Knight

I view the M rating at FFN as the R rating for movies or M rating for TV. Many of my stories end up with an M rating because it allows more creative freedom. The MA rating can be likened to XXX movies. These are things which shouldn't be given to children. Yes, it's a parent's responsability to censor what their kids read and watch. But at the same time it's the author's task to respect the rules of their medium. One of my stories may end up ported over here, possibly two of them. I willingly submitted a request at FFN for administrators to review the story in question.

When I originally asked in the FFN forums about the limits of M rating vs MA I was told "Anything goes" by other authors. Clearly that's not true. While I tried to tone down things to an extent, there are still many adult themes in the story.

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Guest AmericanSephiroth

hi i am new to aff i came from ffn because many of the stories i read while smutty were also well developed and possessed coherent plots i have 1 incomplete story on ffn that will likely be deleted but reposting it will take time but i am glad to be here and feel so welcomed with open arms

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Guest cowgirl65

I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is parenting issue when FF.net is for users 13+. It's for teens to join and get started on writing as well as for adults to post YA stories. That's the point. If a parent reads over their ToS and sees that MA rated stories and content aren't allowed, how is that parent being a bad parent for allowing their teen to join.

Just had to add my two cents. The rating system FF uses describes the M rating as "Not suitable for children or teens below the age of 16 with non-explicit suggestive adult themes, references to some violence, or coarse language." So anyone who thinks their 13 year old is not going to be exposed to material that is possibly inappropriate hasn't done their homework. Not a bad parent per say, but someone who isn't taking the time to be sure.

That being said, while I strongly believe my M rated stories were suitable for someone as young a 16 (but not 14), I took them off FF anyway. They seem to be going past proper enforcement of TOS and bordering on censorship.

And I love AFF anyway :yahoo:

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Guest SBMntReader

Hi. Glad to find this site. I currently write under the above name on FF in the True Blood and TB crossover sections. Although I haven't had any problems yet, I keep hearing about those who have. Personally I don't know how they expect someone to write in cannon for TB without sex and/or violence and/or violent sex. Another thing I like about this site is that it includes original fiction. I have a number of original characters in my stories and have thought about writing stories which are about just them, but can not do so on the FF site itself. I would have to create an account on their fictionpress site to do so. Anyhow, just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. Going to go set up account now. Hope to hear from you all in the near future.

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Hi. Glad to find this site. I currently write under the above name on FF in the True Blood and TB crossover sections. Although I haven't had any problems yet, I keep hearing about those who have. Personally I don't know how they expect someone to write in cannon for TB without sex and/or violence and/or violent sex. Another thing I like about this site is that it includes original fiction. I have a number of original characters in my stories and have thought about writing stories which are about just them, but can not do so on the FF site itself. I would have to create an account on their fictionpress site to do so. Anyhow, just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. Going to go set up account now. Hope to hear from you all in the near future.

I've only seen the first series of True Blood, but imagine that there's probably a dark underworld of vampires going around dressed in tweed calling themselves Morris and Gladys and having lots of vanilla sex. (All credit to Terry Pratchett, who had this idea of reversed goff in vampire fiction in Carpe Jugelum)

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