NightScribe

Deathly Hallows Discussion

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I'll start the thread by reminding all who post here that ANY items relating to the plot of Deathly Hallows is to be hidden by use of the spoiler tag for one month. If you don't know how to do it, it's easy. Type your text, then highlight it and click on the SPOILER button above the text entry box. Preview your post to make sure you've hidden everything. A box saying SPOILER should appear in its place.

(Leon and Mad, I hope you don't mind that I mentioned that.) smile.gif

SPOILER :

I'm not going to mince words, I found this to be the worst installment of the series and highly disappointing. I was on the phone to my brother to tell him what happened and I misheard him at one point; I thought he said "Harry Plodder" and I replied "it sure does. It's Harry Plodder and the Deathly Hollow plot."

I made it through fourteen chapters before I started skimming, skipping some chapters entirely, it just didn't hold my interest, wasn't grabbing me emotionally. And that's one of my biggest complaints. Previous installments had emotion to them and here it seemed to be missing. One of my biggest complaints was that there was seemingly no reaction by Harry to discover that Snape, whom he had deemed as his worst enemy after Voldemort, had been in love with Lily and been protecting him all those years. Glossed over, no internal conflict, no confusion as to his feelings over the whole thing. Wouldn't you be shocked to find out the teacher who you believed hated you had loved your mother since they were children, and begged, first Voldemort to spare her, then Dumbledore to protect not only her, but her child and the man she married?

I absolutely hated the Malfoy chapters; I simply cannot picture Lucius the way he was depicted; essentially rendered impotent. It rang false. As most of the action did not take place at Hogwarts, it felt disconnected, with the trio on the run, living a nomadic lifestyle. It really dragged the plot down, at least for me.

Teddy Lupin. Great, fine, but tap dancing Beelzebub! Offing both parents and saying nothing as to who raised him? (or did I miss that somewhere? Please advise with page number, if so. Thanks!) I really don't want to bust on it, for those who loved it, so I'll mention the things I did like.

Kreacher. Loved his little story about the locket and his turn around in attitude. I actually felt bad for him, waiting for the three to come back for dinner.

Snape redeemed. Always knew it and long suspected the Lily connection. Also had a feeling he'd be headmaster somehow. That was kind of a no-brainer. I still wish he would have lived. I liked the Prince's Tale chapter, naturally.

I liked how Luna, Neville, and Ginny were doing their best at Hogwarts to keep the DA alive and for Neville to succeed; Prof Longbottom (although no mention was made as to what Ron, Harry, and Hermione ended up doing. WTF  blink.gif ).

Don't throw stones too big at me, it's only my opinion.  ohmy.gif

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All I will say is that the line, "Perhaps just one more, Master Harry, for luck?" has probably inspired hordes of yaoi obsessed fangirls world wide, single handedly. If you listen, you can hear them beating away at their keyboards...

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I'm only on chapter eight, but so far I'm enjoying it. Not much I can really discuss over it except:

SPOILER :
WTF is up with the snitch Dumbledore left for Harry? Is something hidden inside of it or what?

But so far so good ... I must admit though it got off to a boring start, picked up, then went kind of boring again.

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All I will say is that the line, "Perhaps just one more, Master Harry, for luck?" has probably inspired hordes of yaoi obsessed fangirls world wide, single handedly. If you listen, you can hear them beating away at their keyboards...

rofl.gif

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Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi
crying.gif Oh god... really that bad, NScribe? Argh, I knew I was doing myself a favor by not buying it... ugh... Welp, I'll be checking in here to get the story since I barely have the attention span for a good book, let alone a shitty one (or the money, for that matter).

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crying.gif Oh god... really that bad, NScribe? Argh, I knew I was doing myself a favor by not buying it... ugh... Welp, I'll be checking in here to get the story since I barely have the attention span for a good book, let alone a shitty one (or the money, for that matter).

There's someone in the Draco/Harry Section summarizing all the major points of the story, if your interested.

Me, I work at a library so I'm just gonna get the copy from there. And maybe I'll end up with a copy of the book eventually. People donate books (too many books) and when we start overflowing we're allowed to take some of the donations. So I have maybe 3 copies of the Half-blood Prince. I guess a few people weren't interested in keeping them and hearing the talk on this one I'd suspect this one will be a case of the same thing.

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There's someone in the Draco/Harry Section summarizing all the major points of the story, if your interested.

Read it... god that author is annoying, and I'm quite sure that doesn't belong there, but anyway... Apparently, Harry's eyes are significant, and it was supposed to show up in this book, anyone wanna fill me in on that, or...

SPOILER :
Was it when Harry once again rebounded Voldy's AK?

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crying.gif Oh god... really that bad, NScribe? Argh, I knew I was doing myself a favor by not buying it... ugh... Welp, I'll be checking in here to get the story since I barely have the attention span for a good book, let alone a shitty one (or the money, for that matter).

ohmy.gif Pix, I really, really hope my ramblings haven't put you off. It's just my opinion, some may love it. I read a couple of reviews online and the "legitimate" critics thought it was swell. Maybe my expectations were too high, or, quite probable, I've grown too attached to my ideas of certain characters and how I write my HP fics to be objective. One of my flaws is that I get very passionate about something I either love or hate and I'm pretty vocal about it. Bad NS! BAD! (punishes self with iron skillet to head). wacko.gif

As for the Harry's eyes thing

SPOILER :
uh, since I skipped some chapters (but just finished reading a few I passed over) I really didn't see much. Other than he had Lily's eyes, that Snape was in love with her, and that one of Harry's kids had Lily's eyes. I think it was his daughter, Lily. *shrug* Maybe someone who's devoured every word can help you there, Pix. Did I mention that Harry ends up naming one of his sons James and the other *groan* Albus Severus?

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Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi
ohmy.gif  Pix, I really, really hope my ramblings haven't put you off. It's just my opinion, some may love it. I read a couple of reviews online and the "legitimate" critics thought it was swell. Maybe my expectations were too high, or, quite probable, I've grown too attached to my ideas of certain characters and how I write my HP fics to be objective. One of my flaws is that I get very passionate about something I either love or hate and I'm pretty vocal about it. Bad NS! BAD! (punishes self with iron skillet to head).  wacko.gif

As for the Harry's eyes thing

Believe me, you can't spoil a damn thing for me, the joy is from reading the book itself, not the plot. I wasn't going to buy it anyway, I was gonna try to borrow it or something, and still will. I could barely get through the last book, so that this one is worse really doesn't surprise me. She seemed to hit the zenith in her skill with book four (which is interesting since it's the middle book in the series).

SPOILER :
From what I saw of the plot, why the FUCK would he name a child after Albus? That guy RAISED HIM to be murdered buy VOLDEMORT! (which makes me wonder if he forced Harry to stay with the Dursley's not only to keep any other potential guardian from getting offed by Voldie and from getting too attracted to the boy-who-dies). After learning the whole thing with Sev, I'd name my kid after him. He's the only one of the two namesakes who seems to really have given a damn about Harry. Of course, the better alternative would have been Sirius, but, you know, that's too obvious, along with Lily and James...  pinch.gif

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Ah Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows:

SPOILER :
Does anyone else find Voldemort to be beyond incompetent? Seriously I was more than hoping Snape was evil so he could kill Voldemort and take the Elder Wand and be a decent villain.

Neville killing Nagini was my favorite scene in all seven books.

I fucking hate the way all the plot moves so abyssmally slowly and then was exposited all at once by Dumbledore after Harry goes willingly to die, its just poor story telling.

Unlike Nightscribe, I liked Lucius, Narcissa and Draco's metaphoric gelding, while they're introduced as strong characters there's a theme, which may be me projecting on to the stories, that all Death Eaters were pathetic sheep.

In conclusion, it tied up the whole story as it intended, but without a competent villain I found it simply damaged the story that came before it. Yet I did enjoy reading it, I can't deny that.

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Okay, just finished, and I really enjoyed it! (I'm ignoring everything about it fic wise of course! wink.gif) but... a few things about the previous posts...

SPOILER :
About Harry having Lily's eyes. Okay, so there wasn't much, but it did, in my feeble little mind have a huge part to play in a very emotional moment in the book... Snape's death. The last thing he says to Harry is "Look at me" so the last thing he sees as he dies are Lily's eye. Now, call me sentimental, but that's pretty freakin' powerful (if not important to the plot).

Okay, on to Dumbledore. Yes. I kinda wanted to kick him in his dead ass for most of the book. But, in "King's Cross" (which by the way, while I was reading I was thinking 'if this has all been a dream, I'm going to kill someone') I kind of got it. the only way to win was for Harry to choose to give up his life for others, and by making that choice he was able to save himself. At least, that's how I read it.

Alright and point #3. It was truly the little things in this that I loved. I will admit that the middle however many chapters did feel kind of like "Tralala lets all go on the deadly camping trip!", but hey, could just be me. Like I said, the little things... George making jokes about the hole in his head (btw, Mad, don't worry... I'm totally ignoring that! He's still got both ears in our world wink.gif), characters that we haven't seen in ages coming back either for the wedding or for the final battle (*sigh* yeah for Oliver!). I didn't really need the epilogue and it felt a bit tacked on. Grand that everyone ended up happily married and breeding like rabbits, but I felt that everything had tied itself up rather nicely. Oh and in my head, Teddy Lupin was raised by his grandmother, Andromeda. But that's just in my head, I have no quotes on that one.

K, I think that's all from me for now... if you'll excuse me yawn.gif I've been up for far too long!

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To reply to some replies:

SPOILER :
Does anyone else find Voldemort to be beyond incompetent? Seriously I was more than hoping Snape was evil so he could kill Voldemort and take the Elder Wand and be a decent villain.

Maybe a tad? Just goes to show, you want something done right, do it yourself, don't leave it all to the minions.

About Harry having Lily's eyes. Okay, so there wasn't much, but it did, in my feeble little mind have a huge part to play in a very emotional moment in the book... Snape's death. The last thing he says to Harry is "Look at me" so the last thing he sees as he dies are Lily's eye. Now, call me sentimental, but that's pretty freakin' powerful (if not important to the plot).

You're absolutely right, Daz. I thought it over and looked it up, but I'd already shut down the computer so I couldn't edit my post. My brain was still filtering. And I also assume that Tonk's mom raised the werecub, Teddy, although it wasn't specifically mentioned. I had kind of forgotten about her.

After learning the whole thing with Sev, I'd name my kid after him. He's the only one of the two namesakes who seems to really have given a damn about Harry.

Well, at least Harry tells little Albus Severus that Snape was "the bravest man I ever knew." That has to count for something. There are a few Snape related things that have me greatly puzzled. Was it ever mentioned if anyone went to retrieve his body? Did he have a "hero's" type funeral, with full honors? Why was no mention made of his portrait in the headmaster's office? Is Snape really dead?  think.gif

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I finished reading it at 2:30 last night and my brain still hurts wacko.gif

as for the book:

SPOILER :
I'm surprised at how much Bill and Fenrir played a role in this book, I'm sure some screen writer somewhere is bashing their head against a keyboard at this very moment devil.gif.

But for the plot... J.K. tied everything up. At times it felt like she was just trying to end the book and get on with her life, ya'know?

Anybody else get that warm/slashy feeling on page 50 when Fleur is transformed and gazing at Bill with a "soppy, slavish" look? drool.gif

And the way Hogwarts and the pictures rallied around the students was fuckin' fantastic!

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Guest Madapple

Call me an obsessed fangirl but I loved it!

SPOILER :
No worries, Daz! He's my George.  wub.gif And now he's holy. . .I mean HOLEY!

As for Snape's death, I read it sentimentally, as well. The last thing he saw before he died, or rather he died looking into Lily's eyes.  crying.gif And for him to have the same Patronus as Lily,  crying.gif  crying.gif

Snape redeemed . . . I knew it. Yep, Dumbledore's man through and through.

I saw the wandering, nomad bits as illustrations of their isolation. from their friends/families and in many ways each other. When Ron left I wanted to boot him in the ass.

The Kreacher redeemed bit, wonderful.

I must admit, I found it a tear jerker, from the death of Hedwig  crying.gif  (who at times seemed to be Harry's only, or at least most reliable friend (kinda like a boy and his dog.)) Moody, I liked Moody, *more tears*

FRED! OMG FRED! I never expected him to die. I was traumatized. I needed to put the book down and walk away for a while when I read that. I went into overload when I thought that those spiders had killed Hagrid. I was like, "NO, NO, NOT HAGRID."

I didn't expect to see Viktor Krum again.

and I thought the King's Cross chapter was really beautiful.

BTW, does anyone remember that the symbol we had to assemble to access the last WOMBAT test was the Deathly Hallows symbol?

When I saw the illustration I was like, OMG! Sneaky JKR. . .

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I finished reading it at 2:30 last night and my brain still hurts wacko.gif

as for the book:

SPOILER :
Anybody else get that warm/slashy feeling on page 50 when Fleur is transformed and gazing at Bill with a "soppy, slavish" look?
I laughed out loud at that, seeing as how I did it in one of my fics (Lucius and his illegitimate daughter/lover).  laugh.gif

Some things from DH have me thinking about HBP. I know a lot of people hated the sixth book, but I liked it, when it dealt with Snape, the Potions book, Malfoy, or the Inferi. All those flashbacks killed me, but the rest, was great, IMO. The silver doe Patronus of Snape's made me think of Tonks' in HBP. When she escorted Harry to the gates and Snape commented on her new Patronus (werewolf) looking "weak." Ah, ha!

After reading The Prince's Tale in DH, I read Spinners' End in HBP. I always loved that chapter and more so now. The whole thing with Narcissa was great, as she begs for the life of her son, as Snape had pleaded with both Voldemort and Dumbledore to spare Lily's. Now we know why he turned away, he was reminded of himself, and of a mother's desperate attempt to do anything for her child. Of course, we don't know exactly how Voldemort reacted to Snape's request, but we know how Dumbledore did and, frankly, I thought Albus came off as a bit of a cold prick. Snape was far more decent about doing it, with no lecture or insults, and went above and beyond by making the Unbreakable Vow. Stand up guy, that Potions master.

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SPOILER :
I laughed out loud at that, seeing as how I did it in one of my fics (Lucius and his illegitimate daughter/lover).  

Some things from DH have me thinking about HBP. I know a lot of people hated the sixth book, but I liked it, when it dealt with Snape, the Potions book, Malfoy, or the Inferi. All those flashbacks killed me, but the rest, was great, IMO. The silver doe Patronus of Snape's made me think of Tonks' in HBP. When she escorted Harry to the gates and Snape commented on her new Patronus (werewolf) looking "weak." Ah, ha!

After reading The Prince's Tale in DH, I read Spinners' End in HBP. I always loved that chapter and more so now. The whole thing with Narcissa was great, as she begs for the life of her son, as Snape had pleaded with both Voldemort and Dumbledore to spare Lily's. Now we know why he turned away, he was reminded of himself, and of a mother's desperate attempt to do anything for her child. Of course, we don't know exactly how Voldemort reacted to Snape's request, but we know how Dumbledore did and, frankly, I thought Albus came off as a bit of a cold prick. Snape was far more decent about doing it, with no lecture or insults, and went above and beyond by making the Unbreakable Vow. Stand up guy, that Potions master.

Reply:

SPOILER :
I'll have to read that now! biggrin.gif

Oh! OH! Ol'Voldie DID say he would spare Lily if she just gave him the child! It's in Harry's Flashback when they're being attacked by the snake at Godrics Hallow. He gave her a choice! Page 281 "...as long as she was sensible she, at least, had nothing to fear..." He gave her 3 chances to step aside (which is very Un-voldie if you ask me).

I still hate Albus. Didn't anybody else find it odd that on the night of Lily and Jame's death, Albus takes the very last protection that might have helped? but know we know that Harry was raised to, um, be squished out so this raises the question: Did Albus purposely kill of the Potters so Harry could be cursed?

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SPOILER :
BTW, does anyone remember that the symbol we had to assemble to access the last WOMBAT test was the Deathly Hallows symbol?

I hit my head against the nearest wall I could find when I put two and two together laugh.gif

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Zombie, I'll have to finish that now!

SPOILER :
I was thinking this morning, about the Harry flashback to Voldemort killing his parents. Yes, Voldy did give Lily chances to step aside. Seems he gave more of a crap about Severus than Dumbledore did. Seriously, had I been Snape, upon discovering Dumbledore had used me and set Potter up to be "slaughtered" I'd have been like, "okay old man....I'm taking over. Avada Kedavra!"  tongue.gif

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i read over 500 pages of the book on Saturday and then finished it yesterday. its taken this long for me to get my brain back into working gear.

SPOILER :
i have to say that i both loved and hated the book. as she promised, Jo Rowling explained away everything. i, too, saw the wandering as a bit of isolation for the three of them. yes, Ron was a prat. Hermione seemed to be a touch on the whiny side in this one. and Harry..... for someone who was supposed to be so intelligent, he seemed to be really stupid at times. could have just been me, though. gods know i was sort of delirious while reading. Barnes & Noble was a bitch, i tell you. a bitch!!!

i loved the shift in attitude for Kreacher. and the scene where he and the other house elves burst from the kitchens during the final battle was great. i hated, positively HATED, that Dobby died. that pissed me off so much. then again, most of the deaths in the book royally pissed me off.

i'm a Snape whore, so i hate that he was killed. however, i loved the method of his redemption. and i loved finding out that yes, it was true. Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him. i knew it was planned. i just knew it. and seeing what he did to help Harry made me cry. it was great. the sword of Godric Gryffindor, the doe Patronus.... all of it. and it was wonderful to see why he turned from the Dark Lord. because he loved Lily. that was so.... okay, i'm a hopeless romantic.

i was very unhappy with Remus and Tonks' deaths, as well as Fred's death. if she had to kill off a Weasley, why not make it Percy? punishment for being an ass. how could she even dare consider separating the twins? it just boggles the mind. Hedwig was, i believe, a useless casualty. yes, let's alienate Harry even further. pointless. Moody... while i was upset with his death, i can understand. and i'm sure he was fully prepared to die. but what Umbridge (Umbitch!) did with his magical eye! i hope the dementors got her toady little...erm, big ass!

but i was very happy with Harry's chat with Voldemort and how he made sure to let the fork lord know that Snape had died, as he'd lived, Dumbeldore's man. i also liked that he named his son after him and said to little Albus that Snape was a great man. still.... why not Severus Albus? or something.

i forget who it was, i think it was NightScribe, who said that they wondered at Harry's lack of reaction to finding out Snape had been in love with Lily all his life, as well as what he was doing those nineteen years later. i look at it as being almost unimportant. what he was doing, i mean. and as for the lack of reaction, all i can think is he was already too emotionally wrung out to bother. who knows? maybe JK felt that adding those bits would be too much more information. maybe she felt that it wasn't important. whatever. even without.... eh. it was okay.

and yes, Dumbledore was such a prick in some of those memories, recollections... what have you. ugh, i wanted to Avada Kedavra him myself.

anyhow, on a whole, i enjoyed the book. at the finish, i wasn't left with loads and loads of questions. still, i'm sad that its all over and i'm anxiously awaiting the next two movies to see what they do and don't include.

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All in all I enjoyed the book - or at least the first few chapters and the last few chapters.

Now here's my take on it....

SPOILER :

Okay - The life and loves of Snape - I feel vindicated!  I was right about him - he did have at least a small soft spot for Harry - even if it was because he loved Lilly.  And the fact that Harry named his kiddo after him went a long way to bringing Harry some respect in my eyes.  (To tell you the truth - he makes me want to go back and read all of the books just for him - just to see what I missed - and I know these books well.)

I hated Hermione as always, but not as much as before.  She just didn't seem as smart as before, and her reactions were a bit OOC at times.  Ron - well he's human isn't he? And to me that explains the entirely human reaction of running.  The fact that he came back made him even more of a hero in my eyes.

The deaths - JK got a bit slaughter happy (to borrow a phrase a friend of mine used).  But I didn't cry for any of them accept Snape (and I only cried for him after the pensive scene).  The book was just too emotionally withdrawn for me to cry - in other words - I couldn't throw myself into it any further than to say WTF? when someone bit the big one.  I only got angry at a couple of deaths - Snape (of course) because Harry couldn't tell him he was sorry - and in my eyes he should have.  Fred - I don't think his death did anything to further the story other than shock value... and as he was one of my favorite characters it pissed me off to no end.  And then we come to Dobby -  He died protecting Harry which is something I can see him doing as he loved him, but I don't see why it furthered the plot.  Again shock value or just another plot device to make Harry seem to rise above all the adversity even more.  But the one death that pissed me off the most - Harry's.  Yeah - he died but he was brought back - what was that?  A hiccup in life's little game with him or is he the second coming?  That did further the plot - but it seemed like it was put in there to make sure that everyone was satisfied, or that it was the only way she could come up with for him to survive to the end of the book.

I did love some parts of the book though - Snape's Doe was perfect, Neville lopping off the snake's head was a stroke of brilliance, and Dumbledore turning out to be a complete prat actually made sense to me.  Also - the fact that JK left it open for a few more books doesn't hurt either - she has 19 years to come up with stories for, and then there are Harry and Ginny's kids at Hogwarts and what they get into - that would make a few interesting stories as well.  I wonder if she did that so that those of us who write fan fiction would have something to do? biggrin.gif

One last little rant until I can think of something else - the Malfoys.  She absolutely castrated the whole lot.  I could see Draco trying to save Harry the only way he could which was to be unclear in his identification of him, but the elder Malfoys?  Did they have a change of heart or were they just always that wishy washy and just didn't show it?  Out of everything this is what I'm most disappointed with - I had hoped that she would have fleshed Draco out a bit better than that.  He started out strong in the books - like he was a major player and then ended up being just a bit part (and a whiny one at that).

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SPOILER :
I was thinking this morning, about the Harry flashback to Voldemort killing his parents. Yes, Voldy did give Lily chances to step aside. Seems he gave more of a crap about Severus than Dumbledore did. Seriously, had I been Snape, upon discovering Dumbledore had used me and set Potter up to be "slaughtered" I'd have been like, "okay old man....I'm taking over. Avada Kedavra!" 

SPOILER :
I think Voldemort did in a way. When Severus first goes to Dumbledore he's in tears and begging that Lily's life be saved (pg.543-544) and old Dumbles uses Snapes love of Lily to get Severus on his side after Lily and James die: "If you loved Lily Evans, Truly loved her, then your way forward is clear".

IMO, I think Ol'Voldie could trust Severus because they both had rather disturbing childhoods (I'm sure at one point or another Voldie must've searched Severus's mind about, well, everything), along with they're equal hatred of muggles/mudbloods (except for Lily).

Ahh! But if Snape had killed off Dumbledore, then without doubt the DeathEaters would have known that Severus had done it then poor Snape probably would have died anyway.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if there's a sudden increase in "Snape is the true father of Harry Potter!" fics on the inter-web.

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Loved the book until the epilogue and I'll be happy to tell you why:

SPOILER :
I've been considering getting into some light DracoxHarry slashing since I re-read HBP again. The "possibility doors" started opening for me when Harry found himself actually starting to feel bad for Draco's current lot in life. DH also hinted a lot at Draco's redemption (along with his mother...not so sure about Lucius...he just came off as a desperate, slimy coward to me) and I was dreaming about a reconcilliation between Draco and Harry and couldn't help be think how lovely it would be if they found each other in the aftermath of the war. Call me a romantic but I'm a sap like that.

Naturally the epilogue viciously crushed that dream.

Aside from feeling a bit stung by that, it's not just shippy reasons that made me dislike the epilogue.  I was more than just a little annoyed that all the epilogue was about was who hooked up with who and how many kids they had. Here I was expecting some grand coda about what happened to the Wizarding world in the wake of Voldemort's defeat and of course what everyone was up to as adults--other than spawning clone kids.  dry.gif

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