BronxWench Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Deadman said: Yes but what I tend to find is people who say “Hey, we can’t pay you right now but if you generate revenue for us, we’ll pay you for it.” or something along those lines. I’ve been having this argument about writing in particular, but it doesn’t happen in just writing. For some reason, in writing people are expected to do free work on the promise of future financial success. The way I’ve put it is “No one ever says come work at this retail outlet for 10 years for free and if you do a good job, I’ll think about paying you at some point”. It happens more often in writing, but increasingly I’m seeing it in other opportunities. That’s the sad truth, isn’t it? “Take this position for minimum wage, and we’ll move you up when there’s an opening.” But the opening never comes, or the manager’s kid gets tapped for it, and you get stuck at minimum wage, doing the work of two people because the manager’s kid isn’t actually going to do anything. Or you look at job listings, and they want five or more years experience for an entry level position that was advertised as no experience required. (My Elderspawn is beating their head against that wall at present.) And writing? If you’re talking fiction writing, the generally accepted wisdom is that most writers need a day job to pay the bills. You’ll never make a living as a writer of fiction unless you get very, very lucky. What you’re likely to find is those situation you referenced: Write us a few pieces for free, and we’ll get you a post where you get paid. Possibly. Unless we can figure out a way to get you to keep writing for free… Wilde_Guess, Deadman and Desiderius Price 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiderius Price Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 7 hours ago, BronxWench said: And writing? If you’re talking fiction writing, the generally accepted wisdom is that most writers need a day job to pay the bills. You’ll never make a living as a writer of fiction unless you get very, very lucky. What you’re likely to find is those situation you referenced: Write us a few pieces for free, and we’ll get you a post where you get paid. Possibly. Unless we can figure out a way to get you to keep writing for free… I view getting rich writing the same way I view the lottery… similar odds. I mean, sure, writing rich is probably better odds than getting struck than lightning, it’s still low odds. I’ve got a good day job, so I keep my writing humble as a “hobby”, which is more relaxing TBH when I’m not having to write to “marketing expectations”, nor write to deadlines, nor keep it family friendly (because, apparently, creating families isn’t very “family friendly”). To make it rich, I’d have to compromise, maybe pay a bunch to advertisers, get into the top seller list with a seven book series, get a filmmaker interested, license out to merchandising, and perhaps even a theme park—then go full bigoted mode to see how fast I can kill the golden goose. Deadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiderius Price Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 9 hours ago, Deadman said: Yes but what I tend to find is people who say “Hey, we can’t pay you right now but if you generate revenue for us, we’ll pay you for it.” or something along those lines. I’ve been having this argument about writing in particular, but it doesn’t happen in just writing. For some reason, in writing people are expected to do free work on the promise of future financial success. The way I’ve put it is “No one ever says come work at this retail outlet for 10 years for free and if you do a good job, I’ll think about paying you at some point”. It happens more often in writing, but increasingly I’m seeing it in other opportunities. Happened in the early internet startup era too… “shares of the company” BS. Nah, collect a paycheck. Stock & options are nice extras, but… “Exposure” doesn’t pay the bills… unless you’re doing it in a gentlemen’s/ladies’ nightclub after hours, or for only fans. Wilde_Guess and Deadman 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Posted July 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Desiderius Price said: Happened in the early internet startup era too… “shares of the company” BS. Nah, collect a paycheck. Stock & options are nice extras, but… “Exposure” doesn’t pay the bills… unless you’re doing it in a gentlemen’s/ladies’ nightclub after hours, or for only fans. Working at gentleman's/ladies clubs is something that happens a lot in content on archive. Though I don’t think I’ve seen anyone who has gotten an only fans. Not even sure if there’s a fandom which would have the opportunity to do it. Desiderius Price 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Posted July 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 20 hours ago, BronxWench said: That’s the sad truth, isn’t it? “Take this position for minimum wage, and we’ll move you up when there’s an opening.” But the opening never comes, or the manager’s kid gets tapped for it, and you get stuck at minimum wage, doing the work of two people because the manager’s kid isn’t actually going to do anything. Or you look at job listings, and they want five or more years experience for an entry level position that was advertised as no experience required. (My Elderspawn is beating their head against that wall at present.) And writing? If you’re talking fiction writing, the generally accepted wisdom is that most writers need a day job to pay the bills. You’ll never make a living as a writer of fiction unless you get very, very lucky. What you’re likely to find is those situation you referenced: Write us a few pieces for free, and we’ll get you a post where you get paid. Possibly. Unless we can figure out a way to get you to keep writing for free… For sure, and I’ve made an attempt at the idea of a day job but those seemed to have dried up or get filled by younger people than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiderius Price Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 32 minutes ago, Deadman said: Working at gentleman's/ladies clubs is something that happens a lot in content on archive. Though I don’t think I’ve seen anyone who has gotten an only fans. Not even sure if there’s a fandom which would have the opportunity to do it. Only Fans Bedtime Reading Hour? Thinking outside the box here…. Deadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Posted July 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, Desiderius Price said: Only Fans Bedtime Reading Hour? Thinking outside the box here…. Well I’m thinking more in the sense of, most of my main fandoms are early internet/before social media. Except maybe one, Riverdale. I suppose you could have one of the characters decide to get an only fans account. But I kinda feel like a gentleman’s club is a more obvious story line. In fact, technically Riverdale does have a gentleman’s club/adult entertainment business. Desiderius Price 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiderius Price Posted July 25, 2023 Report Share Posted July 25, 2023 21 minutes ago, Deadman said: Well I’m thinking more in the sense of, most of my main fandoms are early internet/before social media. Except maybe one, Riverdale. I suppose you could have one of the characters decide to get an only fans account. But I kinda feel like a gentleman’s club is a more obvious story line. In fact, technically Riverdale does have a gentleman’s club/adult entertainment business. Realized I can’t quite clear up the misunderstanding here, and this topic is in “Staff Questions” not in other categories. Deadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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