Tcr Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Recently, I’ve been reading over some of my own work, both stuff I’m editing in hopes of publishing and what I’m writing on here, and have found a few situations that could be considered a Deus Ex Machina. In the ones I’ve been reading around here, I haven’t come across it. That said, I have been reading and watching various things of late where the Deus ex would seem to be making a comeback. Anyone who knows what the Deus ex is, please skip the next paragraph as I clumsily explain what the Deus ex Machina is... (Feel free to throw tomatoes at me for this explanation...)I’m assuming everyone knows what the Deus ex actually is, but, for the sake of everyone understanding (in case someone doesn’t)... In a nutshell, this is the ‘God from the machine’ device where the seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the introduction of a sudden, ‘inspired’, or god-like intervention. This is where the hero is surrounded by the enemy, back against a cliff, with no way out, everything looking grim, then, suddenly, the cavalry shows up and chases them off. I, personally, try very hard to avoid using this device for one reason. (Okay, I hear the chairs moving, put them down before you throw them at me... For a moment, please...) On a personal and, in many ways, stylistic approach, I find using the Deus ex to be a lazy piece of storytelling. (Okay, that lemon bouncing off the head hurt.... Hey, so did that lime!) Yes, I do understand, there are some points in time where this has happened in reality (ie: the sinking of the USS Indianapolis and rescue of her crew), but, for the most part, it just doesn’t happen. So, now I’m wondering, does anyone actually use the Deus ex for theirs? Am I simply reading minority ideas and am, therefore, in the minority? Thoughts on the idea of the Deus ex? BronxWench and mastershakeme 2 Quote
Desiderius Price Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 The deus ex is certainly prone to abuse, but I can see its use in situations where you’re focusing on a character’s reflection, helplessness, etc, or in a comedy that’s not taking itself seriously. (Or, in a superhero story where it’s pretty much a given.) I generally avoid deus-ex’s, especially “just-in-the-nick-of-time” as the countdown reaches “one second remaining” types. My distaste grew while working on my potter fanfic ages ago because it kinda destroys realism in the odds. Sure, occasionally there’s a white knight that shows up, but not very often. Most very often, the victim perishes. And, developing a reputation to not write deus ex helps with the suspense to the reader, because they won’t know if character in distress will live or die - DP BronxWench and CloverReef 2 Quote
Tcr Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Posted March 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Desiderius Price said: The deus ex is certainly prone to abuse, but I can see its use in situations where you’re focusing on a character’s reflection, helplessness, etc, or in a comedy that’s not taking itself seriously. (Or, in a superhero story where it’s pretty much a given.) I think the superhero in itself is a deus ex. However, you have a point, there are times and places for which it works (and, on many occasions within those that you’ve mentioned, I’m more than certain that they would work. I do admit, the comedy deus ex is probably a more well known idea, since, like you said, not taking itself seriously.) I did overlook some of those in my thoughts, too, so… There’s a point. I never did like the ‘in-the-nick-of-time’ ideas, even in the distant past where I knew little of writing but would bury my head in books… It was also so, disappointing and, to me, felt cheap in that regards. When I started writing, I couldn’t bring myself to use the deus ex, so I tried carefully to get my characters around, maneuver them into avoiding needing that assistance. Albeit, I’m sure someone could point out a few scenarios within mine that I have posted that present as a deus ex, probably the same ones that prompted this. I do have to say, there was a novel I read a couple years ago, can’t remember the name right now (...), but they actually played with the idea of the deus ex. Not meant to be a comedy, I don’t think… (Maybe I was reading it wrong...) But, they constantly had their characters saved by extraordinary situations, but, at the end, when you think it’s supposed to… It just didn’t happen. So, it could potentially work if you get the reputation during that particular story, then throw it to the wind and go ‘Ha, ha!’ BronxWench 1 Quote
Desiderius Price Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 (spoiler alert) I remember the countdown scene in the GalaxyQuest, “It always stops at one.” A nick-in-time can be nuanced too, especially when both parties are responding to the other’s presence. (ie, villain accelerates the schedule of his attack because he sees the heroic forces moving in, and the heroic forces punch on the gas.) Is it a deus ex or not? And sometimes, one can get so involved in writing the story that it’s easy to miss the fact that a deus ex is forming, due to desire that the story resolves itself favourably for the main characters. In my potter fanfics, once I became aware that I was doing it, I cut back, and either: 1) let some situations turn out negative (which happens), or 2) rewrite to avoid the particular situation, perhaps with a different scene that turns out similar w/o the deus ex. And now that I’m writing originals that I want a good deal of realism too, I generally avoid them. BronxWench 1 Quote
CloverReef Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Personally, I like the deus ex as a tool. But as with any tool, it has to be used consciously and carefully to avoid that eye roll, 1 second left moment DP mentioned. Sometimes it’s fun to straddle the line between miraculous and realistic. Sometimes miraculous can be made believable, and sometimes shit that’s unbelievable can be gripping and suspenseful. It’s just when it’s used in excess or, you know, cliche-y, or very clearly just stuck in because the writer didn’t have any better ideas, then it feels too silly/lazy to enjoy. Sometimes it feels like a wasted opportunity for growth because the authors afraid to hurt their characters. Moral of the story: Tools are fun if you use them right. (I feel like that’s a wink wink moment… Do Deus Ex Machinas vibrate?) Tcr, BronxWench and mastershakeme 3 Quote
PenStoryTeller Posted April 21, 2017 Report Posted April 21, 2017 The Deus Ex Machina is typically a trope born of poor planning , tight deadlines and frustration as much as it is lazy writing. A Deus Ex Machina like any writing tool, can be used to great effect. The greatest rule I’ve heard is that. COincicdeence and Chance should never solve problems. They may change the problems but if they solve the protagonist’s problems. It invariably trivializes the struggles of the protagonist. Worse,coincidence, chance, happenstance and deus Ex machina’s occur too frequently… it jettison’s the reader out of the experience. Too see deus Ex Machina done well. I’d recommend Reading A Spell for Chameleon by Piers Anthony. But let’s take Tolkien’s The Hobbit. Bilbo finding the ring could be seen as Deus Ex Machina right there. But note. The ring does not actually unilaterally solve Bilbo’s problems. It merely gives him a tool to assist him in figuring out solutions to his problems. By itself the RIng is as much a risk as it is a boon.. One might also see the ruscue by the eagles as Deus Ex Machina, but again it doesn’t really solve their issuesso much as deliver them from one problem to another, and initially Bilbo isn’t certain if the Eagles are helping. See how that works? One trick is to make someonthing seem like Deus Ex when actually it’s something that you’ve been subtly dropping clues about: The protagonist is told about the age of the buildings in a particular part of town. ANother chapter someone off handedly remarks that a great fire in the cuty destroyed all but a few of the oldest wooden buildings. IN another chapter, mention the unusually rainy and humid season, they;ve had the last few months. SO when the wooden roof of the old chapel collapses during the climactic chase scene, allowing our heroes to escape. An astute reader will probably remember those tidbits, or pick them up during the second read through. Of course, the Chapel must have been one of the buildings that was spared in the fire, so the wood was very old, worse still, the ususually rainy and humid conditions would promote or accelerate rot in the old wood. STill random that it chose then to collapse but it';s not like a tree branch announces that it’s going to fall on your car during the night. If you need too use a Deus Ex Machina. Use it early in the story. Let it be part of the inciting incident. If you write your characters into a situation that you need to use a deus ex machina to get them out… then you’re not playing fair with the reader. The reader’s mind will shift from, “How will they get out of this situation” to “How will the writer get them out of this situation.” Desiderius Price, mastershakeme and CloverReef 3 Quote
CloverReef Posted April 22, 2017 Report Posted April 22, 2017 Excellent tips, PenStoryTeller. You’ve made me wanna throw a fake-out deus ex in my current story lol. Quote
Desiderius Price Posted April 23, 2017 Report Posted April 23, 2017 Concur, PenStoryTeller. Thinking back on it, I think I tend to use deus ex’s to get my characters into trouble, not out of it Also, a deus ex might be a symptom of an issue with POV. Something is happening behind the scenes that isn’t being communicated to the reader, which might be a deliberate handicap given the POV the author wished to explore. CloverReef and mastershakeme 2 Quote
mastershakeme Posted May 29, 2017 Report Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) @Tcr My problem is plotting things out… I don’t like to plot too far ahead because honestly it runs the fun for me. I’m SUPER nervous of using deus ex and guess what! You just taught me something new! I didn’t know what that meant until today! I just thought it was labeled CHEATING! lol I’m sorry, I’m going to go now Edited May 29, 2017 by mastershakeme Tcr and CloverReef 2 Quote
mastershakeme Posted May 29, 2017 Report Posted May 29, 2017 On 4/23/2017 at 5:42 AM, Desiderius Price said: Concur, PenStoryTeller. Thinking back on it, I think I tend to use deus ex’s to get my characters into trouble, not out of it Also, a deus ex might be a symptom of an issue with POV. Something is happening behind the scenes that isn’t being communicated to the reader, which might be a deliberate handicap given the POV the author wished to explore. That’s a great point! I really had to go back and do some explaining… why is this guy acting like this… I just thought it would be obvious but nope. I wasn’t communicating effectively with the reader. Interesting… deus ex to get into trouble that’s hilar!!! Quote
PervOtaku Posted June 8, 2017 Report Posted June 8, 2017 I forget the author that said this, but use a coincidence only to get your characters into trouble, not out of it. Quote
PenStoryTeller Posted June 16, 2017 Report Posted June 16, 2017 Deus Ex machina is fine. Just don’t use it too often and do our best to disguise it. trivializes the struggles of the characters otherwise. Put another way; you as the story teller should appear to the reader as the impartial narrator of events, not the invested dictator of outcomes. Nothing breaks the reader’s trance like realizing that the story teller is consciously favouring a character. This is usually the sign of the in experienced or where the author certainly should know better, lazy writing. I’ve seen works from proffessional big name authors that are essentially chains of deus ex machina. I should also clarify that deus ex machina’s hhave a scale iin which the more inexplicable they are, the less tolerated they will be. Having a piece of the bad guys armour fall off in the middle of a climatic battle is deus ex machina but if you pull it right you can make it seem plausible. Having the bad guy strck by lightnight just as he’s aboutv to strike the finishing blow. Or the hero manbifesting and display some hitherto unseen trat or skill.. t; that’;ll basically send your reader’s BS alarms into overdrive. Proper foreshadowing can be a good mix for Deus Ex machina. Mention the decript state of the building and the traces of dry rot in the wood ahgead of time and it won’t seem so strange when the floor caves in under the the bad guy, particularly if they are larger and more heavily armoured than the hero. Quote
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