Right-wing idiots (UK)

[pippychick]

So yesterday I went into town to pick up a hedgetrimmer, and it was only when I was already on the way there - on the bus - that I found out some far right group here in the UK was planning some kind of street protest/march/riot.

Obviously, an indication of how much attention I pay to twitter lately, since I follow a lot of anti-fascist accounts which would no doubt have warned me had I but looked.

A thousand police officers on the streets of a small town is a strange thing to behold. I was in and out of there before I could see any of the other racist thugs, aka as the English Defence League.

No need to ask why Rotherham. It's a mixed community of white and asian british. The mood of the locals was basically pissed off at having their town invaded for the day. One woman running a WildAid badge stall was assured by the staff at Superdrug that she and her dog could go into the shop for safety.

On the bus waiting to leave the bus station, I saw them gathering, and I'll be honest - I could have gone my whole life without seeing that and been happier for it.

Load of fascist c***s.

And yes, it frightens me, with good reason. If UKIP have any parliamentary success whatsoever, they'll be teaming up with the likes of the EDL and the BNP before anyone has the chance to blink, and what then? Especially if socialist Scotland leaves us? If the election in 2015 is another historic "undecided" result like before? Combined with the weakened left and the idiotic complacency (silent support?) of the establishment... well...

I know there are a lot of ifs, but there seem to be an awful lot of things converging in the not-too-distant future. It could well be the makings of a perfect storm. I make no predictions, but I feel a very singular sense of dread when I think forward to the election in 2020.

I hope I'm wrong.

I laugh at UKIP along with the rest, but they aren't really funny. Not at all.

[DemonGoddess]

Right wing idiots are no fun anywhere. At all. We have crazies here too.

[pippychick]

I have to admit, you do have some fantastically scary crazy right-wingers in the US. It's the one part religion in the recipe that does it.

[BronxWench]

It's particularly disheartening when people you thought were intelligent enough to know better seem to be sucked in my these irrational crazies.

I could rant for hours, but suffice to say, I was raised by my father to ask questions, and take nothing on faith. If you want me to believe what you are spouting, you'd better have verifiable facts backed up by more than some right-wing, kiss-ass pundit or corner-store preacher. I've no patience with snake oil or fear-mongerers.

[DemonGoddess]

My parents taught me to question everything. Good thing, too.

[the4w5neko]

Extreme right wingers make no sense to me. Here in the states, we have people who proudly call themselves "conservative." This is pointless because liberals always win in history. Liberals were the ones who abolished slavery and gave women the vote. These conservatives think the constitution is perfect because it justifies their desire to own guns. These people are for war but think abortion is evil. Or maybe they don't really think it's evil; perhaps they pretend to to please the Tea Partiers. Many conservatives probably couldn't care less about moral issues, but they pretend to to appeal to the religious "right".

[DemonGoddess]

The thing about the Second Amendment is, that it's not so much a guarantee of the individual to bear arms, but a guarantee that states may have armed militias.

[BronxWench]

Yes, but that doesn't sound as pretty when you shout it from a pulpit, does it?

Me, I'll stick with my bow.

[foeofthelance]

The thing about the Second Amendment is, that it's not so much a guarantee of the individual to bear arms, but a guarantee that states may have armed militias.

Eh, Supreme Court held to the personal guarantee which I'm kind of glad they did. The idea that only the government should have the ability to go around armed is mildly nauseating.

Extreme right wingers make no sense to me.

Yes, that would be why they're called extremists.

Many conservatives probably couldn't care less about moral issues, but they pretend to to appeal to the religious "right".

Ah, weasel words. How I love thee! So, when you say "many", what are we talking about here? I mean, its such a vague term. Many of a percentage, many of a number? More than a gross or less than a handful? Could we fill a hogshead with them, or would we need shipping container to hold them all? Are we talking just fielders, the entire team, or the entire league? Care to give an estimate? 3%? 30%? 99.999 to the infinite repeating percent? Over 50 million? Under 50 million? Need something a little more concrete to work with here...

[Melrick]

I'm exceedingly glad we here in Australia aren't gun mad. We still have our fair share of nut jobs, though, including our current Prime Minister.

[DemonGoddess]

This law school article outlines the rulings in the Supreme Court regarding the Second Amendment.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As you can see, the language is very broad. However, what it points to (IMO and that of many others) is that this is more to State's Rights, than individual rights.

[foeofthelance]

A couple of problems with that, in my opinion. First, that would make it the only amendment to guarantee a State's rights, with the exception of the 10th, when all the others enumerate rights of the individual people. (The 10th basically just says, "If we don't say its our responsibility here, then its up to you lot to figure out who takes care of the problem"). This is, I think, reinforced by the 9th amendment which says that just because certain rights of the people are spelled out above doesn't mean they lose any rights that might not be written there. Outside of that, trying to read it as a State's rights issue leads to the conclusion that the only time a person would be allowed to carry a firearm is when they are serving or expect to be serving in the stated militia, which means the only time a person would be allowed a weapon is when they are working for the government. That brings you a point where only the government is allowed to have weapons, thus leaving the citizenry helpless in the face of ascending tyranny. (True, the idea was that the states would counter the federal government and vice versa, but it would not be too far fetched to imagine a point where one side or the other has taken and held the dominant role. Some would argue we have already reached and passed that point. That should not be taken as a call to bloody revolution, merely an acknowledgment that the balancing act envisioned by the writers of the Constitution no longer exists, if it ever properly did. Considering what the Constitution was written to replace, it could just as well be argued that everything is going exactly according to plan.) Whereas if one reads the 2nd amendment as granting the individual the right to bear arms, then you have a much more reasonable scenario where the people have not only the immediate means to defend and provide for themselves during the course of their daily lives, but can then also be called upon to form a more cohesive defensive body during a time of crisis for both state and nation, as well as providing the ultimate counterbalance should any of the various legislative bodies become too abusive with their wielding of power.

[BronxWench]

Bear in mind that the framers of the Constitution were not all adverse to the potential for future bloody revolution, and in fact, wrote the Constitution to allow for and encourage that scenario. With that in mind, I could well see that the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit the right of the individual to bear arms. I would also keep in mind that the idea of carrying a firearm was not so foreign in a time when most people still routinely hunted.

Does it hold true for today, that we should allow and indeed encourage our citizens to bear arms? I hesitate to endorse that if only because the young people of today by and large have shown themselves to be devoid of any notion of responsibility and consequences. Until we have managed to teach the "respawn" generation that they can't run around behaving however they want, it would be a Very Bad Thing to give them anything more lethal than a spork.

[DemonGoddess]

Very, very true. I know one of the very first things I was taught for gun handling, was to respect the weapon. Then, I had to learn how to clean and maintain it.

When we hunted, it wasn't just for sport, we ate what my dad killed.

[BronxWench]

Exactly, and I heartily endorse both responsible gun ownership and hunting for food as opposed to sport.

Well, mostly on the hunting. There are a few people I'd hunt for sport.

[foeofthelance]

Yup. I support gun ownership, but I don't support idiots with guns.

[DemonGoddess]

I have no problems with firearms ownership, but I do feel that the industry, and the purchase of, needs to be tightly regulated. It's far too easy for someone who simply isn't suited to gun ownership, to buy one. Not only that, how many people who currently own guns, actually know how to use them, and have the proper respect for the weapon? Instead of looking at it like a toy.

The other thing that really bugs me is this upsurge in concealed carry permits. Unless you have a need (i.e. you're a professional, such as a p.i,, a cop, etc) your average Joe simply doesn't NEED a concealed carry permit.

[Melrick]

I'm extremely opposed to guns in the hands of civilians unless it's required for their occupation.

[magusfang]

I'm extremely opposed to guns in the hands of civilians unless it's required for their occupation.

How about high explosives? Mwahahaha

[magusfang]

Sorry, couldn't help myself...bad kitty...

Edited June 6, 2014 by magusfang

[BronxWench]

We can discuss those as well, pak, my love. The largest difference is that the left wing idiots are generally armed with the pro bono services of equally left wing lawyers, as opposed to guns.

[magusfang]

As a father, I have to say that guns have legitimate uses!

[BronxWench]

My Teengirl still giggles about the effectiveness of a bow as wielded by a fairly cranky parent/Dungeonmaster.

[magusfang]

Edited June 6, 2014 by magusfang

[DemonGoddess]

Extremists of ANY kind are terrible. Left or right wing, doesn't matter