Bottom's in Slashfiction...

[Kimmimaru]

Now, I have been given a really hard time on my stories (Not on AFF, you're all nice (so far...lol)! ) I write Harry Potter Slash mainly centering around the Marauders, and mainly focussing on Sirius Black (with any partner)...people seem to have it in their heads that a gay couple have set roles such as 'bottom' and 'top' I like to mix it up and because of this I have had some rather hilariously useless attempts to make me stop writing. I know I am a reletively good writer, hell, I do it all the time whether Fanfic or Original stories. I am a little bored of trolls using the feedback sections to abuse me because my Sirius Black is 'unmanly' because he bottoms...now any ADULT could tell you that in real relationships the partners can switch back and forth if they so wish...so why is it so terrible that I follow this in my fics? What is it about people's obsession with a certain character being stuck in a definate role? It's not realistic, it's boring as hell and it's actually borderline offensive! Some people have some messed up naieve delusions and It confuses me completely...if anyone reading this can clarify why these trolls (and I use this term lightly...as at least real trolls make me laugh and don't bore me stupid!) continue to plague my internet footsteps I would be grateful.

Also, is there an issue with having a male character show emotion in fanfiction or something? People have told me my stories are...erm... 'shit' before (lol, original!) and I cannot understand why they seem so offended if a character is showing emotion! People are so weird!

Would love to hear other opinoins on this if possible, I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this way! lol.

[RogueMudblood]

You're not the only one that feels that way.

It makes me wonder if these same readers would be as offended if the "bottom" were to be riding the other partner. In that instance, they're "on top" even though they're the one being penetrated. But, as you say, naivety will keep them from understanding this.

As to emotional depth in a character, I for one much prefer it to pointless PWP.

However, if you've talking about the bitties on FFN, well... they tend to be children who want to read only porn. Not all of them, but there're a good number that leave the type of reviews you're talking about who are like that. Some may be absolutely horrid at expressing that they feel your depiction is out of character ("shit" is never a good way to say that), but unlikely abominable syntax aside, most probably it's just the PWP readers.

[BronxWench]

I prefer my characters to switch roles, and none of my characters is exclusively a top or bottom. You're absolutely right in it being both unrealistic and outright boring. I couldn't enjoy just one position for the rest of my life, so why would I write that?

And emotional depth is what makes a character memorable. Men feel emotion, although certain societies expect men to pretend that they don't. Granted, I draw the line at the ever-sobbing perennial bottom (if I cried every time I had sex, I'd worry!), but I applaud you for letting your male characters show emotion.

As far as the little whiners who want their uke/seme pairings that never vary, I say let them read a good boy-love manga since I'm quite sure they need pretty pictures to get the point of what they're reading anyway.

[DemonGoddess]

As a reader, I much prefer the characters I'm reading to have DEPTH. If they have no emotions, and no reactions, they're wooden and not terribly believable

[Danyealle]

You've mentioned that you write in HP. No offense to anyone and I'm not trying to offended (as I, too, write slash in that section so...) first you need to take into account that those that read in HP tend to be much younger and haven't exactly learned that there is more to 'bottom and top' than what they see and/or read on the internet. I've had them do this to me too (usually more in Supernatural though since i make the one no one sees as such the 'bottom), i come back with the example of oral sex. The one giving is tending to be seen as the bottom. When, in reality, it's not. the person with the organ in their mouth is the top because said organ is also surrounded by teeth. That rather switches it around. Oral sex, giving and receiving, is a rather neutral act, not seen as bottom or top because of many factors. The bottom is the one that controls what is done and pleasurable, or painful, sensations that are caused on the so-called 'top' in the situation. The same goes for many other acts like it. There is no real 'bottom or top' in anything unless you are doing a D/s or BDSM situation of some kind and the line is made very clear who is what. Other than that, they are interchangeable.

As for the emotions... again, I mean no offense, but a great many in some fandoms, especially the ones that cater to those that are younger, don't 'get' the emotion thing. Emotion is a hard thing to convey in so many things, be it fanfic or original. In slash, it seems to be harder than in het because so many don't understand one very undeniable 'truth'; males and females react differently to emotional things and show emotion a different way. For example, a 16 year old Harry is not going to run out of a room screaming and crying when confronted with something. Yet I've seen it portrayed that way more than i care to enumerate here. They also don't realize that how beings were portrayed in the books is very different than they were in the movies. Nor do they take into account, using something you said you write, that characters like Sirius were not as well developed as ones like Hernoine or Ron. Sirius was a rather minor character in both the books and movies, with little character development as opposed to other ones that were more of a 'main character'. So how you portray them is your interpretation of what you saw/read. Nor is it right, wrong or indifferent. When there is no real background of development you have to create it to have a good story. Just because yours doesn't agree with what they interpret doesn't make it wrong. OOC, in the case of the more minor characters, is in the eye of the beholder. They just tend to get pissy when you don't do things according to the way they see the world and, for those, stick up your middle finger and tell them to spin on it.

All in all, it comes down to one thing... It's your story to do with what you want. If they don't like it, they are free to shut the page and move on. Their reviews, too, can be easily deleted here. Beyond that, consider the mentality, roll your eyes and move on!

[Lisbet_Adair]

Word.

The idea that one character is less dominant because he or she is penetrated during sex is just plain wrong. That said, it's an opinion that you can work into your fics if one of your characters is defensively homophobic, and refuses to try being the recipient partner because they see that as being less "manly".

[Kimmimaru]

Word.

The idea that one character is less dominant because he or she is penetrated during sex is just plain wrong. That said, it's an opinion that you can work into your fics if one of your characters is defensively homophobic, and refuses to try being the recipient partner because they see that as being less "manly".

I do that, especially if my character is Bi, I tend to make them against bottoming as they themselves don't see it as 'manly'...even if they don't mind having sex with another bloke.

[Windrider Shiva]

I'm not a major fan of the exclusively top/bottom relationships within fandoms. For some characters it works, but for most, it wouldn't. It really depends of their personalities and the society or culture they revolve around, and then how they'd react to it...

And most would agree on being versatile.

It's insane how some people are willing to take some characters very OOC to keep with the top/bottom idea. That totally throws me off.

I know not everyone's familiar with Final Fantasy 4, but Kain Highwind and Cecil Harvey are a pretty common pairing. Cecil's more feminine, look-wise - but his personality more or less matches it. He's gentle, true... but for hell's sake, he's not a crying bottom. He's more likely to fight for dominance. If you're going to make him exclusively bottom, at least, go for the D/s relationship based on how it allows him to relieve the stress he's under (ruling a heavily militarized country, the medieval society they live in, etc), while this gives Kain the feeling of having even more power (mounting the king... out of everyone in the world...).

At least something that won't make them OOC. Please.

I'll admit, I like height differences. Small bottom / tall top. I dig it. But I won't do it if it clashes with characters' personalities. That's for fandoms anyways, because when it comes to original characters...

Then again, it depends of the culture they live in. In my original story, both guys are pretty tall (6'2 and 6'4). They have roughly the same build too. They're both warriors. Homosexuality wasn't unheard of, and it wasn't much of a big deal - as long as you were the top, because it meant you were powerful enough to mount another guy, therefore powerful enough in combat. Now the bottom was thought of to be less manly, and more at risk of being "defeated" on the battlefield.

So my "bottom" is an over-aggressive swordsman because he's constantly trying to prove his prowess in combat... because his "top" loves the power of mounting another guy and won't give it up easily. Over time, it'll become the main source of frustration. (But I'm nice, I'll have them work it out).

[Kimmimaru]

I'm not a major fan of the exclusively top/bottom relationships within fandoms. For some characters it works, but for most, it wouldn't. It really depends of their personalities and the society or culture they revolve around, and then how they'd react to it...

And most would agree on being versatile.

It's insane how some people are willing to take some characters very OOC to keep with the top/bottom idea. That totally throws me off.

I know not everyone's familiar with Final Fantasy 4, but Kain Highwind and Cecil Harvey are a pretty common pairing. Cecil's more feminine, look-wise - but his personality more or less matches it. He's gentle, true... but for hell's sake, he's not a crying bottom. He's more likely to fight for dominance. If you're going to make him exclusively bottom, at least, go for the D/s relationship based on how it allows him to relieve the stress he's under (ruling a heavily militarized country, the medieval society they live in, etc), while this gives Kain the feeling of having even more power (mounting the king... out of everyone in the world...).

At least something that won't make them OOC. Please.

I'll admit, I like height differences. Small bottom / tall top. I dig it. But I won't do it if it clashes with characters' personalities. That's for fandoms anyways, because when it comes to original characters...

Then again, it depends of the culture they live in. In my original story, both guys are pretty tall (6'2 and 6'4). They have roughly the same build too. They're both warriors. Homosexuality wasn't unheard of, and it wasn't much of a big deal - as long as you were the top, because it meant you were powerful enough to mount another guy, therefore powerful enough in combat. Now the bottom was thought of to be less manly, and more at risk of being "defeated" on the battlefield.

So my "bottom" is an over-aggressive swordsman because he's constantly trying to prove his prowess in combat... because his "top" loves the power of mounting another guy and won't give it up easily. Over time, it'll become the main source of frustration. (But I'm nice, I'll have them work it out).

I like the idea behind your Original story, it kind of reminds me of the Greeks and the Spartans where it was ok to have a homosexual relationship as long as you weren't the bottom...but then in Spartan society they never had penetratitive sex so that solved that issue, lol.

I'm so glad I'm not the only person who has an issue with stereotyping, yes, I admit I have my preferences for example I prefer to write my Sirius on bottom but I do hint that he is not solely a bottom It's simply how I prefer to write him especially when he's paired with James Potter...but then in that pairing I take into account (if you know Harry Potter) their Animagus forms or totum animals. James, being a stag, would be the apitome of male virility and pride, therefore I cannot write him as a very good bottom (although I have done in the past...but when I wrote it was just...awkward! lol). Sirius, being the dog, would be loyalty to the point of self-deprivation and that seems to me that he would be willing to go to any lengths to please his friends...(It makes for a fun D/s story!). But generally I do attempt to be a bit fairer with my characteriszation and it really gets to me when I get childish, pointless reveiws telling me my story is rubbish simply because I use Sirius as a bottom. So, now I will have to say that my version of Sirius Black will remain a bottom, if only simply to annoy those who don't like it. (Call me childish but I can't help myself! lol) And because Sirius bottom stories are so few and far between...

[bookworm51485]

I'm reawakening old dead topics, sorry.

I will admit, this is kind of the reason why I hate bottom Sasuke fics, mainly when paired with Naruto. He's got such issues with himself and other people and such a massive inferiority complex that I just can't see him being on the bottom, at least not with any regularity.

I think a lot of it is knowing the characters you're writing for and not just how you'd view the issue or how it usually exists in gay relationships, but how they'd view it. For some, it's a non-issue, for others it's a big issue.

My two cents.

Word.

The idea that one character is less dominant because he or she is penetrated during sex is just plain wrong. That said, it's an opinion that you can work into your fics if one of your characters is defensively homophobic, and refuses to try being the recipient partner because they see that as being less "manly".