Working Moms vs. Stay at Home Moms

[Leonhart29]

I was watching Oprah (yeah I watch it) and today they had the debate about working moms vs. stay at home moms. I actually had to take a step back and a couple of deep breaths with some of the comments made (most of them made by men). One person said that women have no lot in this life but to raise kids and had no place in the work force. They were put on this earth for one reason and one reason only, to keep a family (husbands included).

When I was married I was expected to keep the house, raise the kids, be there for my husband when he needed something, and bring in the majority of the money. It's harder than hell to work and be a mother, and it's just as hard to be a stay at home mom.

My question for y'all (and I'm hoping for a debate not a fight here people) is this... which one would be your choice? I personally would love to stay at home with my two children, but that is an impossibility.

The one thing that the show didn't touch upon was single moms. I'm very proud of the fact that I have two beautiful, well adjusted girls and I work a full time job. It's very hard when you don't have someone to take control and let you have just five minutes of alone time. It's harder I think when you have another adult in the household that refuses to help.

So which one do you think would be best? If you had the choice (and guys I want your opinion too) which would you chose?

One last little word - Please remember the TOS - no attacking anyone for their opinions or ideals. A debate is wonderful - as long as it's respectful to everyone.

[dazzledfirestar]

I was watching Oprah too, Leon, don't feel too bad about it.

Here's the thing. I am a stay at home mom. I have chosen that. It means making sacrifices as we don't have two incomes anymore, but I want to stay home with my son. I don't think everyone should have to have things one way or the other, I think everyone should have a choice. I remember my mother (who was a feminist in the sixties and seventies) telling me that what women were fighting for back then was choice. The choice to be able to work outside the home, or the choice to stay home with your kids, or to work at home and do a bit of both. I think that's what everyone has lost sight of. I've had people look down on me because of my choice, and I wanted to smack them. Why am I less of a person because I chose to stay home? It used to be the other way around. What we all need to realze is that we are all working our poor little butts off, the only difference is where we're working our poor little butts off (oh, and I'm not being paid for the work I do). But, to some of these working moms, I'm a freaky fifties throw back, and a traitor to the feminist revolution.

As for which is better for the child... well... I'll use an example to make my point. My mother stayed home with me (that would be the original feminist, she made her choice too), and I had a wonderful childhood. Most of my favorite memories are me and my mom baking, or playing or cleaning up. Now, one of my best friends, his mother also stayed at home with him and his sister, but there was a difference. She was physically there, but not really there. He doesn't ever remember playing with his mom, or helping her out in the kitchen or anything like that. So, as they said on the Oprah show, it's not about whether you're at home or not. It's about whether you're checked in with your family or not.

"Well gee, Daz, if you're so checked in, why are you online right now?"

Good question... I'll let Alexander answer that one...

He doesn't feel like typing, but he stuck his tongue out at you. So there.

[Jadwin]

I think it really depends on the person. I reckon some people might go stir crazy, having to stay at home all bloody day with a bunch of kids, whereas others might absolutely love it.

I grew up with a working mum and a stay-at-home dad. Even after my parents split up, my mum kept finding boyfriends that didn't work, and just stayed at home all day in their underwear, watching daytime TV.

[dazzledfirestar]

See, the idea that stay at home moms get to sit on their butts and watch tv all day really pisses me off. Before I sit down for my daily computer time (which is usually interrupted by crying, or diaper issues or feedings) this house is spic and span, and dinner is on it's way to being ready, and I spend this time with my son in my lap, so between sentences, I'm playing rousing games of make-faces or tickle monster. I don't know though... am I an exception to the rule of stay at home parents?

[Jadwin]

Maybe men are just hard-wired differently. I dunno.

Although, in my experience, stay at home parents are all on welfare and/or leaching off of a spouse/significant other.

HOWEVER, as a result, I was able to cook a full meal for me and my brothers by the time I was 12, I could get around the city in a bus, and I could fix most of what was broken around the house. I share a house with someone who was coddled up until the day he finally moved out of his mum's house, and he can barely cook a can of spaghetti-os.

[Leonhart29]

I happen to agree - it's all in how you do it. If you can work outside of the home and be there for your kids - Great! If you stay at home but aren't there for your kids - well there's a problem there.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I am at this moment typing in a room with not only my children but my mother as well. My kids are 11 & 12 and pretty much self-sufficient. I didn't start going on line until they were able to amuse themselves and could make their own choices. I'm still there for them and will leave the computer any time I need to. We still go places and do things - just not as much as before due to the rising cost of everything.

[Guest Adara]

Before I conceived my first baby, I was into giving birth, and then going back to work. Why? Because it was what my mother did. For the most part, my mother worked full-time and we kids spent most of our days with a babysitter.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. My mother was not doing it because she didn't want to be involved, no, she was doing it so that she could provide a home, food, and well, a better life than she had when she was a girl.

My mother missed my first words, when I first started crawling, all those milestones that parents want to capture on film to show everyone in the family. That was her sacrifice, and well, to this day, she laments having made those choices.

I missed out on coming home from school and seeing my mom there to ask me about my day, and well, spend time with her before my dad got home. I really missed something I never had. But, I suppose it did help to show me how valuable it was to me, to spend time with my kids.

Now that I'm on my way to giving birth to my second daughter, I feel that, unlike my mother, I don't want to look back and regret not being there for the first time MY little girls sing at school. I want to be there. That's what's important to me. Money, hell, it comes and goes. Yes, having two cars, vacation money and what not is awesome(I know this because my parents took us vacationing a lot) but, that would mean not spending those regular days with my lil' girls.

I want to be a published author. I'm really trying my damndest to make that my reality. I don't want to stop what I'm doing for my children, but I don't want to feel like I gave them up for something that was purely MY goal.

I much rather meet the end of my days hearing my daughters tell me that I was there for them, then regret what I didn't do with them when I had the chance.

So, I do my writing when I have the time, and well, spend the rest of the time making my home as comfortable as possible for my unborn baby and my very active and curious three-year-old. If the day comes where I need to go back to work, well, I'll do it, but I'll at least have that very special time where I was there for those first monumental moments.

[Guest Agaib]

I didn't vote. One is not "better" than another in the same way that being gay isn't better than being straight (or vice versa). Whether or not to be a stay at home mom is a personal decision and the "better" choice depends on the situation and the person. The stability and adjustment of a child largely depends on both genetics (which are unavoidable) and the stability and adjustment of the parents. The biggest difference that being a stay at home parent makes on the mental health of a child is that some parents would be more mentally stable themselves under one role or the other.

[EveKnight75]

My original reply is actually much longer. I do go into speculation about what I'd do if I had a child. But it turned out so long that I myself had a TL;DR reaction. In fact, posts #4-8 were made while I was typing.

So for now, I'll just give the first part of my response and add the other stuff in later posts.

I had to pick the last option there.

I think that it depends on each individual woman in each individual situation. There is no effective blanket solution.

My parents alternated. When I was born, my dad worked and my mom stayed at home. When I was around 2, they switched so my mom worked and my dad stayed at home. When my mom was around 5 months pregnant with my sister (I was 6 at the time), they switched off again.

This was normal. My parents tended to switch off about every 3-6 years. There were also periods when they both worked but the only time they worked the same shift was when both of us were in school during the same hours. Otherwise, they alternated shifts and scheduled things to get at least one mutual weekday off during the weekend.

It's a little too perfect and I understand that it's nearly impossible to work out a solution like that in this day and age.

Every woman has a different personality and different needs. What suits one woman will not necessarily suit another. On top of her own preferences, she needs to consider her environment and situation.

On one side there's the child-rearing factor. How accessible is the paternal unit (doesn't have to be the child's biological father either)? Are there any other children in the family? Are there any friends/family nearby willing to lend an occasional helping hand (like babysitting)?

On another side, there's the career factor. What kind of job do you have? What are the hours and pay like? What's your boss like? Do you work in a group? If so, how will fellow members be affected by any changes made in your input? How far do you want to advance and what will it take? What will it take just to keep your current position? How flexible is your job? Will it allow you to do any work from home? Will it allow you to change your hours around? Will you boss actually try to be understanding about possible emergencies? Can you afford to work less hours and end up with a smaller paycheck?

In the middle, there's your personality and preferences. Are you patient? Do you deal well with messes? Do you like children in general? What kind of temper do you have? Are you ambitious? Do you handle pressure well? Are you good at teaching? Are you flexible or are you set in your ways? How do irregular schedules affect you? How much emotional investment do you have in your own dreams? There's just way too many questions.

Next time: my personality and how it'd affect me as a mother.

[dazzledfirestar]

See, Eve, I never really considered going back to work full time. I just don't want my son raised by babysitters. But then, that's just my opinion. If you're going to have children, you should be willing to sacrifice anything (even the all mighty career) for their well being.

Although, in my experience, stay at home parents are all on welfare and/or leaching off of a spouse/significant other.

I am very sorry that your experience was so poor, I really am. But as someone who is staying home and isn't on welfare or, as you put it, leeching off of my husband, I'd hope that your experiences are the exception rather than the rule.

Now, excuse me, I have to back away from this topic before I punch my wall.

[Jadwin]

Eh. Childhood was less than a breeze, but I wouldn't take it back for anything. I think growing up the way I did actually has helped in immensely in later life, specifically in getting on when I didn't exactly have money, food, or even a home.

[Leonhart29]

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to make any one mad about this one (though looking back at my first post I knew it would). I just wanted an opinion other than my own. My own mother went to work after 6 weeks when I was born, and did the same thing with both of my sibs. She's been working all this time and I pretty much raised my brother and sister. I make sure that my job allows me to be there for my kids when they aren't in school, but I missed out on a lot of firsts too.

It's really not what's better - I worded that incorrectly. It's more of what you would do. If this was a perfect world I would be raising my kids full time only going back to work once they were in school - I didn't get that chance and I will forever regret it.

[Guest Agaib]

Your posts seem to have an air of arrogance. I respect your survival of your childhood Jadwin but I feel as if you're using your troubled childhood as a license to make rude comments about certain people or groups. Please don't. I wont say any more.

[Jadwin]

Who was I talking bad about?

[EveKnight75]

See, Eve, I never really considered going back to work full time. I just don't want my son raised by babysitters. But then, that's just my opinion. If you're going to have children, you should be willing to sacrifice anything (even the all mighty career) for their well being.

My parents weren't comfortable with baby-sitters either. In fact, they tried it once, and the three of us hated it so much that three months later they just ditched it. After that, the maximum amount of time they'd keep me with a babysitter would be for 5 hours, and even then they'd make sure that there was at least one kid my own age around so I'd have a playmate.

I've looked over my last post. I don't think I've said anything to discredit you or your choice. If I have, could you please point it out to me? If I did say anything to insult you, I apologize.

I haven't finished writing part II of my post, so I'm not gonna put it up yet.

[dazzledfirestar]

No, Eve you didn't say anything that discredited me at all! I was just sharing my opinion on the babysitter option. It wasn't your comments that have me upset.

[Guest Adara]

I myself was practically raised by babysitters, (though my parents did instill a good deal of morals and respect) and I didn't like it.

I mean, I loved having the latest toys...but, I loved having my mom make me oatmeal in the morning on her days off even better.

I guess, as everyone has said, it's up to the parents. I mean, my husband much rather have me stay home and take care of our little ones, than risk having someone who'll abuse or hurt them while we are away.

Honestly, I know this isn't the norm, as I had babysitters myself, but I've heard of so many bad experiences with people who chose babysitters over staying home.

Sometimes it isn't even financially necessary. It's a choice to want to be dressed in the latest fashions and brand new car, or to give some of that up, and stay with your kids.

I think we as a society sometimes value money more than we value what exactly we're earning it for. I would go to work gladly, if it meant that I was able to have GREAT vacations with my kids.

I know as many parents who stay-at-home who are completely wasting their time as working parents who are there for their kids as much as they can.

Dedication I suppose is the bottom line here.

[ladydeathfaerie]

this is s a sticky position, no matter which side you're on.

i grew up in a two parent household. and both parents worked during the days. i have two older brothers and, for a while, they looked out for me. i had a babysitter.

summers were spent playing outside all day long. as well as weekends during the school year. these days also involved spending time with my mother who, i have to admit, is my hero. her and my grandmother. because my grandmother was the opposite. she stayed at home, took care of her children, made the meals, cleaned and did all those things women were supposed to do before the advent of femininism.

i've seen both sides of the coin. and, honestly, i don't know that one is better than the other. if i could have done it, i would have loved to have been a stay at home mother. now that my son is 14, its more or less a moot point. he doesn't need me the way he used to. sadly, i had to work. single mom and, while my mom and dad (until he passed away) helped where they could, it wasn't their responsiblity to take care of my son or myself. my job. its hard to balance both, honestly. working and being a mom.

but i do what i can. my son and i go out and do a few things when we can. mostly we go to the movies. and he's fine with that. he understands that it takes a while for me to make the money that we need when we do those things.

sometimes, the choice is taken away from us. but just because some women choose to work... that doesn't give anyone else the right, man or woman, to degrade them for their choice. for those of you who have chosen to stay home to be with their kids, i admire you and wish you the best of luck. to those of us moms who have no choice..... good luck to us as well.

no matter which path we've taken, all that matters is whether or not our kids are healthy, happy and well adjusted.

as Agaib said, one isn't better than the other.

[EveKnight75]

Daz, glad to know that we're cool. Now onto Part II.

I guess this is the part where I try to answer the question as applied to myself.

The truth is, I honestly have no idea whether or not I'd be a stay-at-home mom. There's just so many things that I haven't determined yet, and I'm at a point in my life where my personality can still change easily and there's too much in my future that hasn't been determined yet.

For the sake of argument, let's just set up a situation where I choose to marry a man instead of a woman, and we only have one child together. I know that there's so many different situations in which I could have a child, but this is the simplest and most idealistic situation so let's just work with that for now.

Let's concentrate on my personality first. I'm generally awkward around children. I don't deal that well with crowds of children or any child who's a complete stranger to me. I guess I'm afraid of them, as absurd as it sounds. I'm afraid that I'm going to do something wrong that'll insult them and/or their parents/guardians, or that I'm going to inadvertently hurt them. I'm just more afraid of messing up with them.

It's a different story once I get to know a child. If I'm given time to get to know an individual child in a relatively comfortable environment, I can get along with that child well. After that, I'm very comfortable around that child and often end up having a good relationship (not in the pedophilic sense!) with that child. This applies to groups of children as well. If I know the children well, then I can babysit up to three of them for up to 12 hours by myself. (I've actually done this before).

It's important to me to maintain good relationships with those close to me. I always keep in touch with close friends and relatives no matter what. I've been told that one of my best qualities is that I'm attentive to those around me. If I do have a child, it'd be one of my biggest priorities to have a good relationship with that child. I'd make sure that my child and I knew and trusted each other and that we'd have a solid emotional bond. If I failed in that department, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I'm a loving person, but warm is the last adjective you could use to describe me. I'm not a touchy-feely person. I don't hug a lot. I don't smile or laugh often. In fact, some people are scared off by how cold I can appear. In fact, I don't display much in the way of "softer" emotions. In fact, when my dad died, I only cried once then never again. My mom called me "a cold-hearted callous bitch". Of course she took it back because I was extremely close to my dad and I got that whole "rarely cries if ever" thing from him.

How would that affect me as a mother? It's supposedly OK if a dad doesn't display softness, but it's unforgivable in a mother by virtue of being female. I've never been soft or warm. I don't think having a child is going to change that aspect of me. On the other hand, I can be loving and gentle. I don't yell often, I'm fairly even-tempered, I always try to see the other side of things, I'm patient, I always listen carefully, I try to explain things well whenever I can. I love one-on-one conversations where I can trade questions (especially with kids because I love the way most of them have the ability to think outside the box). I don't belittle anyone else's feelings or opinions no matter how much I disagree or don't understand.

For example, if my child got a nasty bloody gash on the knee while playing and I had to fix it and was crying the whole time, this is what I'd do. I'd bring the child inside one way or another, not even addressing the crying. Then I'd go through the whole antiseptic-and-bandage thing, making sure that I wasn't rough and try to avoid as much burning/stinging as possible. No hugs, no kisses. Maybe a few gentle words, wiping tears, running fingers through hair. Then, I'd wash the child's face. Later, I'd make the child have some quiet time and I'd just sit there until the sniffling stopped. Once the sniffling stopped, I'd start asking the child questions on what happened and how s/he got hurt. No raising my voice, but no letting up either, no matter what the child did. If I had to take a break in questioning, so be it, but by the end of the week I would know what happened straight from the mouth of that child, no exceptions

That above example gives you a very rough idea of how I'd be if I ever had children. I think the only area where I could ever pull off being traditionally motherly is in the cooking/baking department. I'm good at both, I enjoy doing both, and experimenting is fun no matter how disastrous the resulting dish. Kitchen fun with the kids is something I could easily envision for myself.

So all in all, would I be a good mother? Does it sound like I have what it takes? Would I end up emotionally stunting the child with my lack of warmth? Would I come off as "a cold-hearted callous bitch"? Or is that all silly, and I'll be fine?

Before you answer, I want you to consider two things. Remember that statement I made about how having children won't turn me into a warm, touchy-feely person? I've made that statement based upon personal observation. I've met plenty of women like that who have children. None of them turned out to be bad mothers or grandmothers, but none of them had a habit of giving out hugs and kisses regularly either. The other thing is that I've been seeing two psychologists regularly for the past two years. I don't have any major issues with my emotions, and my EQ is normal.

Next post: the career aspect of things.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Maybe men are just hard-wired differently. I dunno.

Although, in my experience, stay at home parents are all on welfare and/or leaching off of a spouse/significant other.

HOWEVER, as a result, I was able to cook a full meal for me and my brothers by the time I was 12, I could get around the city in a bus, and I could fix most of what was broken around the house. I share a house with someone who was coddled up until the day he finally moved out of his mum's house, and he can barely cook a can of spaghetti-os.

THAT can very easily be seen as an especially rude comment. You just basically told every at home parent on this board that their either on welfare, or muching off their spouse. May not be what you intended, but it is what you said.

Furthermore, you implied that everyone raised by an at-home parent can't do shit for themselves, and I could VERY easily take that as a personal insult, kthnx.

It would likely be best that you look over what you wrote and make sure that people won't take that the right way, i.e. make sure you're saying exactly what you mean, and that you're not insulting the entire board by doing so. These people here are nice... to a fault.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

I have the utmost respect for at home parents of BOTH genders. I make this distinction because, I remember have a debate in class where a bunch of girls thought it was great for a mom to stay with her kids all the time if they could afford it, but not for a dad to do the same, even if the mom was making enough to support the whole family, which is when I jumped in and bitch-slapped everyone with my superior logic. J/K, but I did make sure to point out that my father stayed home with my sister and I until I was 13 and he went crazy. When we were at school, he made sure the house was clean all the time, and I always had lunch waiting for me when I got home 'cause he knew I hated school lunch. He also helped us with our homework, taught me to cook, and made dinner in that time. By the age of ten, I could cook a steak, make fried chicken, and fix a roast. This is also the man who got me into art and science. All this he did while my mom spent most of her time at work or sleeping, or, on the weekends, taking us places and spoiling us rotten.

The joke in my house is that, yeah, my mom made sure there was money in the house, but if it weren't for my father, we'd starved.

My mom sometimes says she feels guilty that she couldn't spend more time with me when I was little 'cause she was working all the time, but really, she knows she would have gone stir crazy at home. Really, after a month of being home with me after I was born, she was ready to kill everyone and wanted to go back to work.

Also, that whole "Women who stay at home are counter revolutionaries" shit is stupid, and makes me want to choke a bitch. Why is it always extremes?

The boy and I have spoken about this, at length, and have both agreed that it would be best if SOMEONE was home with our hypothetical eventual brats, and take care of them, love them, teach them to be ninjas, and take care of all the crazy school stuff. It's my belief that if possible, at least ONE parent needs to be home with the kids as much as possible. Baby sitters are all well and good, but unless it's family or a close friend, they can only do so much.

[EveKnight75]

Would Cain mind if I borrowed you? I think I just fell in love with you.

The same thing pisses me off. I've had a stay-at-home mom and a stay-at-home dad. Both were great. Plus, what's wrong with a parent simply being a parent? Why do we have to turn motherhood into this huge revolutionary war thing? It takes all types to make the world go round.

It was the same with me and my dad. My mom doesn't enjoy cooking that much and she'll eat pretty much anything. My dad, on the other hand, is a picky eater and loves to cook and bake. My sister and I both took after him in that department.

We always came home for lunch, even during the winter. The food on the table was worth the trip. Dad loved to play around with recipes, especially when it came to soups, steaks, roasts, and cake. In fact, everyone on that side of the family has this obsession with food, and we've lost count of how many family recipes there are, never mind modified versions. This generation is the first one that was born and raised in North America/Europe. That means we've tripled the size of the recipe list. One of my cousins on my dad's side lives in the Middle East, and another one lives in the Congo. Imagine the next generation's possibilities.

Those were some of the best times ever. I'm still learning more family recipes from my aunts and uncles, and I still play around in the kitchen with my sister, but it's just not the same anymore because Dad's not around.

Some of the biggest projects going on right now:

My cousin is a vegetarian. There's this special family biryani that uses three types of meat. She's trying to create a vegetarian version. Actually, our great-grandfather admitted that there's rumors that a Hindu vegetarian version did exist but it's lost now.

My specialty is chocolate. I'm trying to create as many edible sugar-free and cholesterol-free versions of chocolate desserts as possible. Not an easy task, but I'm getting there.

Sorry about derailing this thread with my emotional outburst. I'll get back to writing part III of my post.

[Leonhart29]

I've never had a stay at home mom or dad. I wouldn't know what to do with a parent that showed love in a touchy feely kinda way (and I don't mean sexual folks). I love my children, I care for them, I work 50-60 hours in a week every week, I tend to their wounds and prideful hurts, I make damn sure that they have clothes on their backs and food in their bellies even when I have to go without (which is more often than I care to admit). I spend as much time as I can with them making sure I know where they are, who they're hanging out with, and what they're up to. I also let them make any mistakes that won't bring physical harm to them. What I don't do is coddle them, hug them more than once or twice a day (well - when they were younger I did, but now that they're almost teenagers they don't need it as much), I kiss them good night, ask them how their day went, and if their homework was done.

I say I would love to stay at home with them, but I know that I would eventually have to find a part time job or at least make "me" time. I'm not horrid, I'm not a bad mom, and I love kids... but here's my little problem. I hate - and I mean hate - being leaned on, strangled, hung on, touched constantly, and I can't stand someone in my lap that weighs more than say 25 pounds. I used to love it when they were little, having a little one on my hip or in my arms - now it makes me very uncomfortable.

I can't remember the last time my own mother or father hugged me, kissed me, told me they were proud of me... I wanted to be so much different than that, and I think I've done it as I never let a day go by without telling my girls how much they mean to me - that they are the reason I'm still on this earth and not 6 feet under it. My children know I love them without the physical side of it. Even if a mom or dad is in the workforce there is a way of bonding with your kids and showing them how much they mean to you. You don't have to spend all the time in the world with them - just make sure that the time you do spend with them is quality time.

[StoryJunkie]

Wow.

Just. Wow.

*munches on popcorn*

[DarkCabaret]

I voted they *Work outside the home* there is NO reason (my sister being proof) that a mother can't work! My sister has two kids (13 and 5) her husband is the stay-at-home dad. I think it's sweet! She works a day shift so of course she's home in the evening with her boys.

Women should be given a choice! I know when I decide to have kids ... I'll keep working! I'd get bored just sitting at home. It drives me nuts when I'm off my three days a week, and I don't have kids!

[dazzledfirestar]

Women should be given a choice! I know when I decide to have kids ... I'll keep working! I'd get bored just sitting at home. It drives me nuts when I'm off my three days a week, and I don't have kids!

This is what I was saying! We (and I do mean everyone, male, female, whatever) as parents should have a choice! And whatever your personal decision, no one has the right to look down on you for it. If you stay home, it does not mean you are a slacker, or a leech or a sponge. Guess what, staying home isn't just sitting on your ass all day. I am a maid, a nanny, a chef, a personal shopper and about ten other jobs that I have to do on a day to day basis. And I don't get paid for it. And if I had chosen to go back to work, I'd still be here for my son as much as I possibly could be! Just because a parent is working, does not mean they are neglecting their child. My husband works, and he's still a fabulous father. *takes a deep breath* No one should have to defend themselves regarding their choice. No one.