What is in a Flame?

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Wikipedia (the love of my life, kthnx) describes Flames (particularily, reviews) as follows:

Flame Reviews are often used to insult the creator of a product (eg. a game, a story, or a video)...

Wiki also makes a clear distinction between Flames and Non-Constructive Criticism in the following way:

While Non-Constructive Criticism is often painfully blunt, rude and sometimes insulting, it never attacks the creator themselves, only the product. In other words, the review is not made with malicious intent... Flame Reviews on the other hand, involve deeply personal attacks, often regarding the creator's sexuality, intelligence, choice of fandom, family or friends, with random cursing thrown in. They are, whenever possible, written anonymously and are intentionally insulting. If there is any reference to the product, it will be used to insult the creator (eg: "How stupid are you to have written this awful trash?").

The entire article can be found here.

Are your definitions of a flame any different than this? Has this in any way changed your view of what does and does not constitute a flame? Having read this, do you now believe you may have posted a flame somewhere on AFF.Net or on any other site? Do you now believe that, what you once thought of as a Flame may have just been Non-Constructive Criticism? How about the other way around?

[bookworm51485]

That was the definition I found when I first heard the term and it's been the one I've stuck with. Unfortunately, a lot of people (authors and some readers) define flames as anything negative that they, or their favorite author, doesn't want to hear. I've been called a Flamer for negative, but constructive, criticism. I've seen others who've also been called the same. It would be nice if people could get it straight because it's a bit insulting when I take the time to try to write out good constructive criticism and get blown off as a Flamer.

[EveKnight75]

^A very common occurrence in fanfiction. Most fanbrats can't recognize the difference between negative concrit and flames. Anything that doesn't gush over their fics is a flame.

If a review says anything in the form of an attack or insult but has no indication that the reviewer has read the fic, then I'll immediately discount it as a flame.

If it's a simple "you suck" or "this sucks", it's still a flame but I can't really be bothered to react much outside of "I acknowledge this review". No deletions, not much of a defense.

If it's "you suck and here's why", I'll reply with "Yes, but what do you think of the fic?."

If it's "this sucks and here's why", I'm gonna read through the list carefully, and answer every point. If they have a point, I'll admit it and agree to try to improve. It doesn't matter how rude it is or if the person meant it as a flame - I'll take it as concrit no matter what. If it lets the wind out of their sails, there's not much I can do. I'm just not the "UR meen" type. Hell, I wasn't like that when I was 8 years old - why should I start now?

I think the one thing I can't really stand is when someone flames another ficcer or group of ficcers on my review board in an attempt to explain how great I am. No - just no. I don't want to hurt other people's feelings deliberately and I don't want any flame wars over trivial things like that. Especially because I have the power to prevent it. I know that it's not a flame directed toward me, but it's a flame nonetheless and a volatile one at that. More volatile than any flame that attacks me on my own review board.

[prairiefire]

I describe a flame as a review intended to ignite drama or just non-concrit negative comments. They are best delete without second thought.

Moronic "i luv u, ur grate, update now" reviews are just as annoying though I am inclined to leave them, unless it means I have to scroll across the page to read them, since they don't harm anyone.

[DuranDuranfan]

To me, an inflammatory review is one that states shit like "You suck, you can't write your way out of a paper bag blah blah blah! This part sucked, this person sucked, and so did that and the other thing! You this writing?! If I puked in a fountain pen and mailed it to the monkey house I'd get better stories!!"

Basically shit like that. And even if it's gussied up to look "nice" I can still smell smoke.

[Kyouryoku Senshi]

I agree with the definition of flames, I've gotten the 'You suck' comments once or twice. I'd define a flame that is an insult to the author or work and leaves no constructive criticism whatsoever.

[StoryJunkie]

I think it's more subtle than that though. I think a flame can be defined according to the receiver's reaction. For instance, the review that inflamed me did not directly insult me, but it did put up my hackles and cause me to react in similar vein.

Inflammatory remarks intend to cause friction, and some authors invite that by the throwing down of the gauntlet (don't read this if you don't like such and such) Sometimes saying "don't" starts things that maybe wouldn't have started.

To me, insults are already open warfare.

Meh, maybe I'm wong.

[cu-kid9]

I think it's more subtle than that though. I think a flame can be defined according to the receiver's reaction. For instance, the review that inflamed me did not directly insult me, but it did put up my hackles and cause me to react in similar vein.

I agree that even if the review doesn't insult the author, it can still cause a strong, negative reaction. However, if we defined a flame according to the author's reaction, then are all of the "fanbrats" (I love that term, btw), who get into a tissy by con-crit, correct in saying that they're being flamed?

I think that, even if the review is meant to be constructive, it's more of a blow to the ego than anything else. Reviewers walk on eggshells sometimes trying to leave reviews that are helpfully constructive -which is a real shame.

I find flames amusing more than anything else. These people have just taken time out of their lives to not only read what I wrote, but also to tell me just how much I suck. How am I not the winner here?

I found this great quote the other day about con-crit:

"Being critical is easy, and offering critcism seems easier still. Yet contructive criticism -the more refined and effective brand of critical feedback- is like an art." -Jamie Walters

[sunnylewis]

Okay, I have to say this. Its a fine line between flaming and critiquing. I can understand writing out what irked you about the story. But don't do it in such a way that would piss you off. And if you don't have a suggestion on how to make it right, say that. But, and this is a BIG but, don't review after just scanning through a chapter. Actually take the time to read the actual chapter. Sometimes if you go back and reread something, you'll find your answer to your question. This way, you don't waste your time or the authors, not to mention piss them off.

I had this happen to me. Which I did ask advice about under guidelines. The person pointed out the things that could be found in one chapter. Thats just telling me they didn't bother to actually READ the darn chapter. And its waste of my time and theirs since I have to point out this stuff.

Sorry, ranted there for a moment.

[kerri240879]

To me, a flame is a review that is constructed to hurt the author - the flamer may not abuse them or say anything against the authors life styles, etc, etc, but if the review is barbed with no real reason but to hurt, then it is a flame.

Constructive Criticism, on the other hand, is a person saying to you, this section was bad, because... if you had done this, it would have been a lot better.

[Maiafay]

Heh, I just gave concrit and the author informed me that anything negative must be emailed. I don't agree. I told her I get suspicious if all I see is praise praise praise. Is there anything on AFF that can educate authors that reviews aren't and shouldn't be all praise? I see this attitude often on AFF.

[bitBlackmage]

Heh, I just gave concrit and the author informed me that anything negative must be emailed. I don't agree. I told her I get suspicious if all I see is praise praise praise. Is there anything on AFF that can educate authors that reviews aren't and shouldn't be all praise? I see this attitude often on AFF.

Well some people just like it that way.

I mean, some can think of it as public flogging if it's not behind the scenes. Youk now? I would only get suspcious if revisions weren't made as per request.

[shinigamiinochi]

that whole 'only good' policy people have is pretty detrimental to authors. That is not to say that I would welcome blatant bashing, flaming, or non constructive negative attitudes, but I'm working on a novel right now and all I've been getting are people saying 'please update' and how good my writing is. This is wonderful, and such reviews spur me to not give up, but I would also love reviews that tell me how to improve my work. I just read through what I've written and there's a few spelling mistakes and grammar issues and, to me anyway, some areas in the work seem rushed, but no one's said anything about this! How can I write a novel when no one is telling me exactly what is good or bad? *mutters* 'course a beta would be helpful, but no one seems to be willing to take up the challenge.

[Calanthee]

That was the definition I found when I first heard the term and it's been the one I've stuck with. Unfortunately, a lot of people (authors and some readers) define flames as anything negative that they, or their favorite author, doesn't want to hear. I've been called a Flamer for negative, but constructive, criticism. I've seen others who've also been called the same. It would be nice if people could get it straight because it's a bit insulting when I take the time to try to write out good constructive criticism and get blown off as a Flamer.

Ah the delight of Criticizing a Critic

A Critic is a Critic, they criticize just for the thrill of the insult [thus they flame] try being encouraging for a change, just to see what it feels like! Maybe you poor victem, wont be so hurt... people write for a lot reasons, sometimes just to deal with life. By the way this is fanfiction, ergo amateurs, we are not dealing with great litature here. People that like to criticize should have more compassion and remember they have their flaws too. Constructive criticism, my ass, its just a excuse to act superior, and be insulting... it rarely helps!

I have notice that some people who like to criticize, are not particularily good writers themselves, oh they have perfect grammar and spelling, alright, but they are so up-tight they rarely think out of the box...they need to loosen up! There now, don't you feel encouraged Evil Cal

PS Perhaps we should have a topic, called the utterly worst and most ruthless Critic!!!

[Guest Monsterking]

This is "My" Definition of an flame somebody whom just for fun types your an ass hole and your story sucks is an flame and any other such insults constitunt as flames

Peace out brothers and sisters of adult-fanfiction.org and may the furs be wit you "WOOOOOO!!"

[Harley Quinn hyenaholic]

While Non-Constructive Criticism is often painfully blunt, rude and sometimes insulting, it never attacks the creator themselves, only the product. In other words, the review is not made with malicious intent... Flame Reviews on the other hand, involve deeply personal attacks, often regarding the creator's sexuality, intelligence, choice of fandom, family or friends, with random cursing thrown in. They are, whenever possible, written anonymously and are intentionally insulting. If there is any reference to the product, it will be used to insult the creator (eg: "How stupid are you to have written this awful trash?").

Of course I agree with that definition.

I wrote it.

Hell, I spent a long time writing it so that it would be accurate even without references.

[Guest MortiferLascivio]

I think a flame is something people do to just get a rise out of someone. Possibly because they were bored/jealous/in a bad mood. Or they are just feeling superior because of the bad quality of the story and feel the need to express the superiority. I think they get a kick out of being mean. Whether they're outright bashing the story or the writer, I see them both as flames.

[Calanthee]

This is "My" Definition of an flame somebody whom just for fun types your an ass hole and your story sucks is an flame and any other such insults constitunt as flames

Peace out brothers and sisters of adult-fanfiction.org and may the furs be wit you "WOOOOOO!!"

Just the idea of big nASTY radioactive fire-breathing Godzilla being my personal story critic, makes tremble in horror... THEN giggle with my hand over my mouth, so he wont see me. It gives new meaning to the word Flaming! I can see it now he "Your story sucks" then he comes after you, clomp clomp clomp and destroys your computer, Ah but alas who has the guts to flame him back I ask you?

Cal Fantasizing

[animefreakandgeek]

I look at it as this:

Tell me what I did wrong, even if i dont like it and think it MIGHT be insulting- but for gosh sakes give me ideas on how to fix it! THAT is constructive criticism

Example:

"The scenen with Harry and Draco arguing in the Great Hall seemed a little rush. There was a lack of detail and life that would draw the reader into the story. Key emotions were left out and the reader has a hard time relating to the characters in this scene. Suggestions: Try to work in some emotions from both Harry and Draco- anger, frustration, depression, questions, betrayal, ect. Describe the setting a little more- were they alone in the hall, were others there listening and watching... these small details can really add to the story and help it come alive to the reader. Good luck and happy writing!"

THAT is a good constructive criticism review.

"That scene with Harry adn Draco, when they are arguing in the Great Hall is terrible! Where's the emotions? Where's the details? Where's the life and feelings of these two characters? Add more thought and details- otherwise this story wont be much good."

THAT I would classify as a border-line Flame- add some helpful friendly advice and you will be safe with it

"The story sucks. How can you even be called a writer? This is just pittiful! I could write this story so much better than you!"

THAT is obviously a flame and I dont think we have any disagreement on that.

[K.Blood]

Personally, if there is something in it I can use (a critique of some kind, no matter how negative) to better my writing or my story then I don't see it as a flame. However if it contains no actual help at all and is just one great big insult to me, then I see that as a flame.

I mean, a reader can hate my story all they want, but please tell me why. If they don't give their reasons (and they have to be real reasons, no "I hate it because you suck") then it's a flame.