Wealth gap swallows up American dream

[Guest echtrae]

Wealth gap swallows up American dream

There is one passage in this article that says volumes.

"There's the rich, and then there's everything else, in terms of the economy but also in terms of social class," says Edward Wolff, a New York University professor and expert on the wealth gap. He likens it to the social divisions of the 1890s, adding: "If you don't counteract the extreme inequality trends, I see some social upheaval coming. That's my worst fear."

[NightScribe]

That was very interesting and it's something I've bitched about for years. In my neck of the woods, developers are buying up houses, razing them and building the McMansions. Just last week, I drove out to my dad's (he still lives in the house I grew up in) and I got disoriented; so many new, huge houses. And it pissed me off. Urban sprawl has become suburban sprawl. People I work with are driving 1-1/2 hours to work, because they can't afford houses near the office, so they move out to BFE. And those areas are now getting as congested as the collar counties of the city used to be. WTF?

[Guest DarkVampWriter]

The class system use to be rich>high-class>middle-class>poor. It's more like rich then poor. And I am in the poor category according to economical standards since my household makes $45,000 a year. Hard to believe but true!

[Guest echtrae]

I agree with you quite a bit there Nikolatesla1, but I would like to point out one thing. The Nazi regime carted off more than just the Jewish to the concentration camps. They carted off homosexuals and dissenters, basically anyone that expressed a different viewpoint from the regime. Hopefully people will wake up and change things in this country before we reach such a condition.

[NightScribe]

And let's not forget what happened to the French aristocracy during their revolution. Unfortunately, the Terror that existed afterwards was just as bloody, if not more so, than the initial revolt. But it's a good example of what can/could/will happen if a "new aristocracy" develops. Another case of not learning from the past.

[Guest Big Samurai]

The biggest thing that bothers me directly about the income gap is that -- well, let me use a personal example. I work for just above minimum wage at a book store in the middle of White Bread America, as do most of the people there, yet just about all of us have college degrees, good academic records, and traditional middle-class families. Now, we all count as poor, and it's ... weird. I mean, if we're poor, how bad off is everybody else in the world?

[Guest Adara]

It does make one wonder you know? I also think wealth migrates. For instance; My parents live in California. Out there everyone seems to be pretty well off. You know, getting all the material pocessions and what not. I think wealth in America very much depends on which section or region of America you're in. It doesn't seem like higher education is really making much of a difference in who's making the most money.

[Guest Big Samurai]

I'm right in there with you, Tesla. I've got a teaching degree, too, and I actually make more shelving books than I ever would trying to get those kids to speak French. Frankly, I'd rather have a little debt and be a writer than have a lot of debt and be pulling my hair out over the local school system.

[Iggy_lovechild]

Hey so this is totally killing my desire to actually attempt college. But it's nigh impossible to get a decent job without experience ( and how the hell do I get experience if no one will bloody well give me a chance) and I swear...I don't know what the future holds. There are days I think it might be best to just get the hell out of this country and start over somewhere else.

Silly, childish dreams I suppose....

[NightScribe]

Hey so this is totally killing my desire to actually attempt college.  But it's nigh impossible to get a decent job without experience ( and how the hell do I get experience if no one will bloody well give me a chance) and I swear...I don't know what the future holds.  There are days I think it might be best to just get the hell out of this country and start over somewhere else.

Silly, childish dreams I suppose....

The degree vs no degree. I've had discussions about that, too. I didn't go to college, but I was lucky enough to enter the work force at a time when you could still get an ok job without one and move up by having common sense, adaptability and a good work ethic. At my current job, we hire a lot of new college grads and some of them are so lacking in common sense and are such slackers, it blows my mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying an education isn't important and valuable, and not every young person is a useless layabout. I shudder to think how difficult it will be for me when I have to find another job. No degree? Well, we've got an entry level position you can have.... Argh!!

[Guest echtrae]

I went the education route. Admittedly, I wasn't so successful in my first attempt at higher education, but the second attempt worked out far better. Do you need an education to make it in the world? No, but it does tend to help. A major factor in how helpful it is, is what the degree is in. Degrees in the sciences and technologies tend to solidify job prospects, but you still won't necessarily get the big paychecks.

[EveKnight75]

If you have a way or the money, Iggy, go for it.  If Canada were letting more people in, I'd make run for the northern border right now.  At least I'd get universal health coverage.  But unfortunately they don't need American teachers up there, because our education is so piss poor compared to theirs.  And you practically have to have some skills to offer them or be a professional of some kind to emigrate there, unless you've got alot of money.  Not that I blame them at all.  They want to keep their borders from coming under assault by the poor, badly educated American riff raff, just as we're trying to keep the Mexicans from doing.  They're having better success, unfortunately, since we lazy Americans wouldn't accept all the really poorly paid under-the-table menial jobs just to get to stay in their country.

I don't know about the rest of Canada, but here in Toronto you get what you pay for as far as health-care goes. It's free but man is it crappy! When it comes to the important stuff, you have to wait for months before you can get treated properly, and the emergency rooms are overcrowded.

As for immigrants, it's the same situation here. They let in the doctors only to have them become cab drivers. I saw this one commercial for the province of Ontario supporting immigration, crap about how they offer you skills training and language classes so you can share your work experience.

I laugh out loud every time I see that commercial. They make up this crap about how you need Canadian experience in order to get a job in any lucrative career area. We're short on nurses but the trained nurses that come in from other countries are turned down in the hospitals.

I suppose at the moment that most areas in Canada do have it better as far as education goes, but it's not that much better.

If you want an overall better quality of life, I'd suggest going to Switzerland, Holland, India, Japan, or Singapore, depending on your desired profession. Canada may have a better economy than the United States at the moment, but it's not a significant difference.

[Guest Adara]

Indeedy. I moved up from the States three years ago to Ontario, Canada. I noticed a VAST difference in the economical atmosphere immediately.

I earned good money when I was down in CA, but it appears doing the same thing up here wouldn't get me very far.

I also feel the whole emergency room situation. Two weeks after I had a c-section, I was hit with extremely bad backpains. These pains were so bad I could hardly breathe. I was put in the waiting room for 4 hours before a doctor had a look at me.

Having Universal Healthcare is awesome. 'Cept, well, everyone seems to get injured at the same time! Not to mention our Doctor's office is always crowded. Whenever I go to take my two-year-old for a check up, I have to get there at least 45 minutes earlier to get IN at the time of my appointment.

*sigh* Times are hard, I suppose they'll get worse before they getter better, Murphy's law at its best I suppose. I'm going to try and go the writers' route. I'll look into getting a degree in English, but I'm not going to hold my breath. After all, I do have a kid who needs to go to school. I certainly don't want to put her in my place in the future!

[Guest Big Samurai]

Well, Iggy, I will say that education is a good thing. Even if you can't use a degree, it's good to have one. My whole approach to the university experience was to take advantage of my one good shot at the system by taking a wide range of classes in different disciplines. (I rocked at electives; everybody should take as many as they can, IMO, if they want their money's worth.) While there's nothing wrong with specializing, soak up as much as you can, don't overspecialize. I might be a teacher on paper, but I studied all kinds of stuff to become a well-rounded person.

And Ms. Adara, listen carefully, since this is the best advice I can give you: If you want to become a writer, don't become an English major. If there's one thing that can make a person hate the craft, it's that, and, believe me, I've seen enough English majors crash and burn to know this. The occasional creative writing course won't hurt, but having to fire off paper after paper after paper in rapid succession is a good way to never want to type anything ever again.

[StoryJunkie]

how many frickin teachers are here?

[Guest Adara]

I will certainly take that into consideration. I guess disecting the language as much as one would be if taking that route would make one dispassionate to the subject.

Thanks by the way

[StoryJunkie]

you all aught ta be spanked! SPANKED, I say!

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

...12,000 a year... holy crap. I can make that doing full time as a cashier and with my current wage (just over minimum, might I add) and I have yet to make a venture out to college. As a teacher, you need a Masters, which is THOUSANDS of dollars in higher education. See, I'd love to make a law that all teachers can make the minimum amount of money needed to become a teacher in a year. That way, they'de be making a good 60,000 early on and be able to, you know, pay rent and have food.

Truly, I plan to art my way through life, which is a world of starvation right there. However, I have years of overeating to get me through the first year on my own

It took me years to finally get a job, and it's off the books at a supermarket my boyfriend's best friend works at. If it wasn't for him, I'd still be jobless. As it stands, in order to be able to get an apartment, I'd need to work 40 hrs. a week and split it with 2 other people who make about the same amount to be able to make the rent, pay the bills, and have food. I also need to be able to afford paints and the like. If I were making the same amount in say... Chicago or some place like that, I'd be able to have an apartment with just one other person. It'd be small, but it would work. But in NYC, it's insane the amount people pay for a little apartment. In Manhattan, it's out of control. I, at least, live in Brooklyn, where rent is a little more managable.

When it comes to general education, NYC fails on a grand scale. Chicago is even worse. In fact, Chicago is the reason for my dyslexia. Fun stuff, really...

[StoryJunkie]

(I meant the teachers!)

and no. That model glue of my brother's was an innocent incident. I was not the age of reason yet. (When does that happen btw?)

Meh, I just prayed to God for some sort of goal in life. But the prayer I was praying didn't work. So finally, at a low point, in a shelter home for beaten women, I saw a (flock? do eagles make flocks?) family of eagles fly overhead, and I said: "That's it, I'm out of here." I had within me a great determination, and I then prayed the proper prayer: "I would like, my Lord, my God, my everything, to be able to employ people!" (I don't really address God that way, don't worry, its just a story). Two years later, I was doing that. Every year has doubled the amount I've employed, although, truth be told, I'm only 1/2 a team.

Now how bizarre is that? To be the poorest of the poor (well, me and the kids still had a bed to sleep in at night) and then, (well, not exactly the richest of the rich) a mere few years later, closer to the top of the heap (in this town anyway) than I've ever been in my entire life.

And you know what I found out in that journey? The ones I was with are the ones that enriched me the most, for you see, there's nothing like a story to a StoryJunkie like me. It feeds me as much as the food on our table. It's not the destination, my friends, it's the journey. Sometimes its worthwhile growing old just to realize that!

*wipes a tear*

[Guest echtrae]

Pixagi (and I suppose the teachers in the crowd), I've always felt that if the US government were serious about being a leader in educating the youth. That any person who became a teacher, took the classes and actually got a job teaching, would have their loans repaid by the government. I don't mean all of it either, only pay for it just like the teacher were making the payments. This would ensure that the teacher would continue teaching and not bail out to do something else because they were only in it to get their loans paid. Then we would likely have the opposite problem though, too many teachers and not enough positions. A much better problem I would think.

[Guest echtrae]

I would imagine the teacher's morale would end up pretty low.

I remember from my own experiences from the schooling system that I was thoroughly bored throughout high school. They determined that I was intelligent and that I had no problem figuring out what the teachers were going on about, so I could be ignored in favor of spending more time with the least common denominator in the class. Consequently I tended to get in trouble.

I didn't mean for my suggestion to be the complete answer, but I think it would have to be part of it.

[StoryJunkie]

Okkkaayy...while I'm willing to roll with a little bit of kinky once in awhile, why is it you think that Samurai and I should be spanked?

well, the thought crossed my mind that if any of my teachers hung out at AFF (which didn't exist back then) I would have been really grossed out.

And for all the craptastic shit that teachers have to put up with, its amazing that anyone comes out of the education system intact. When I was growing up, teachers had classrooms of 30. (They also had "the strap", which may explain a lot) but even back then everyone knew teachers were overworked and underpaid.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

...You know, I'd be VERY freaked out if I found out any of my old teachers hung out here. Even more freaked out if they were any of you guys... cause... yeah...

[Guest echtrae]

For some reason, the Police song Roxanne comes to mind with Tesla's statement.

[Guest Big Samurai]

The teaching profession harbors a ton of perverts. Heck, during my observation / student teaching, the kids thought I was a pervert, and I didn't so much as twitch an eyebrow or say a word unrelated to the subject on hand. (To be fair, I am a pervert, being a part of AFF and all that, but I'd never -- not in a million years -- be lustful towards high school students; that's a good way to be a bad teacher.) Many of my own teachers, way back in high school, were dirty ol' men, and everybody knew it. Then again, that might be inevitable when you're stuck lecturing to rooms packed with hormonal teenagers.

As for the issues facing a teacher, it's true that pay's not the only consideration, though it's a big one. There's also the issue of bullshit. I believe that, for a job to be enjoyable and worth the time investment, there has to be a certain pay-to-bullshit ratio. To get paid $12,000 to jump through hoops, be maligned by parents, never be truly qualified, be heckled by kids, and have minimal free time -- well, that's not great.