The deal with being betas

[djackgirl]

I get the whole point of wanting to get a story up like as soon as possible however, when you have a beta helping you with a hectic real life schedule and their own work, you would think they would have some patience when it comes to getting the edited copy back... That has not happened with me.

A girl who was reading a fanfiction of mine on FF.net asked me to help them with their first story, without giving me anything on what it was, or what. Being the nice person I am and willing to help out I said, sure that I was willing to help a newbie...

Low and behold I ended up being sent a Twilight AU fic, I actually hate Twilight but I had said I would help her so I went ahead and edited her first chapter for her, showed her where she could improve, cut things, add others, etc, etc. When she reposted it, I found she had barely taken in what I had said but brushed it aside thinking hey, its not too bad she took in some of what I said.

She sent me the next chapter last week saying, "hurry... I want to get it up as soon as possible"...

This is where I sorta started to get annoyed. I clearly have on my profile on FF.net that I do have a full time job, I study and I have other commitments and here I sit getting these messages. Urgh!

Now I understand it may not be a great thing when I give them a promise date but they must remember that things pop up in between all the other stuff; including 7 assignments which I have like 9 days left to complete but I just opened my inbox to this, "so its been about a week past the time u said u would get it to me. dont bother anymore its fine."

???

Sorry is it just me or is this person starting to think I revolve only to beta for them and drop all things in my life as soon as she sends me a chapter???

Please help... I sent her a message saying I'm willing to help her but that other things come up suddenly and that being a beta is the last of my priorities for the past week.

I've even edited the chapter and am halfway through it but I'm about ready to just toss it in the recycle bin after that message.

I get that she is probably a teenager and anxious to post chapters but seriously respecting the boundaries of time and real life isn't too much to ask; is it?

Let me what you think,

DJ

[Melsiebug]

This is why I don't currently use a beta. I post two chapters a week, this is a challenge I have set myself and it keeps me focused and writing, but I would never expect another person to keep up.

She needs to respect the fact that you have other commitments, are you able to give her an estimate of when you can get her chapters back to her? Perhaps if you had an arrangement whereby you guaranteed to get her chapters back in say three weeks or whatever (I don't know what a realistic timescale is for this kind of thing) then you would both know where you stood.

Maybe you should also sugest she looks around for someone else, it can't be easy to beta a fandom you don't know well (I'm assuming you don't from your comments about disliking Twilight)and if she's ignoring most of what you suggest it doesn't sound like a good working relationship.

[DemonGoddess]

I've beta'd in the past as well. I liked doing it, but ended up giving it up because RL commitments made it so I no longer had any time to devote to it. The writers I worked with understood that. We worked out a schedule, which took a bit of adjusting on both ends. I'd give an approximate completion time, they'd tell me if they needed it sooner. If I could manage that, I did. If not, I told them.

Communication is of course key when working from either side of it, whether as a writer or a beta. I suppose in that respect I was a bit spoiled. I worked with adults, who UNDERSTOOD real life commitments such as job and family. They sure never gave me grief over it.

It sounds like you need to lay some ground rules with the kid (I say that because she sure sounds like one) and tell her if that's not acceptable, to find someone else.

[pittwitch]

When I did beta regularly, I "auditioned" for writers. We would do a sample. If they didn't like my style, speed, etc., we parted ways amicably. It also gave me an out if they were pressuring me to hurry, or other things, like completely disregarding grammar changes, etc.

I rarely beta read any more.

Sometimes, you just have to make the tough call and say, "Find someone else. I'm not going to be fast enough for you."

[Shadowknight12]

Yeah, pretty much what everyone's said here. You can't let someone younger than you boss you around, that's just hilariously wrong. Like DemonGoddess said, you need to set up boundaries. Otherwise people (and especially bratty tweens) just trample you like wholly mammoths.

I suggest you send her a link to "Hit The Road Jack" on Youtube and let her figure out on her own what you mean.

[djackgirl]

Its all been sorted out now, thanks gang, this really helped me out, I left pretty much a message that explained that its a tandom operation.

Much appreciated DJ

[djackgirl]

I quite literally stand corrected...

I ask this one question is it right for an author to go "don't go over technical with the editing" or too in depth basically to a beta when the person actually does need the over technical stuff in order to help them improve so they have detail, solid characters and a good story.

I ask another question when the beta yields to the authors request and just writes out how the chapter SHOULD look in a rough way is it right for the author to just take the rough edit that the beta has done and just post it AND on top of that not even credit the fact that the chapter posted is actual the edit the beta has done?!

I don't know whether to wait and see if she does it again with the next chapter and take credit for the chapter posted actually being mine or to send her one now asking her why she didn't use my rough edit in order to take a step towards improving the version she originally wrote.

This is ridiculous, first person I help and this is what happens, great way for me to not want to beta more in the future which I wanted to start doing.

DJ

[pittwitch]

That's way over the top for what a beta does, IMHO.

Lose the author.

[DemonGoddess]

Your responsibilities as a beta are to PROOF READ. Not write the damn thing FOR her. You've gone well above and beyond any reasonable expectations. I agree. Lose the author.

For that matter, post up in the beta forum here that you will, and see if you can get some authors to work with.

Set out what you will and will not do, from the start.

[ApolloImperium]

I agree with DG and pittwitch 100%. I've worked with beta's before in the past and while I love when they give me suggestions on how to work with something, I still write it in my own words. Mostly, I just ask for help with word choice, sentence structure etc. I would never ever expect a beta to re-write a chapter for me. If it sucked that bad, I'd hope they would tell me to scratch the whole thing and start over.

Plus, I always give my beta's credit in each chapter for their work, but that is just me!

IMO: The girl needs to give you credit as a co-author and if she doesn't, I'd say to report it to admin over there because personally, I consider that plagiarism. Going forward, I'd set boundaries with her and be very firm. Or you can just loose the author like they said and beta for ppl here instead... It's very rare that I've heard bad beta stories here, that's the nice thing about knowing your working with adults!

Good luck!

[Shadowknight12]

djackgirl, you're in a toxic relationship. Take her to the back and shoot her.

All three above are absolutely right. Ditch the bitch and get an author who has not failed Human Decency 101. I think betas deserve credit for the job they do, and I make sure I include at the very least a thank you line at the end of every chapter they proofread for me.

Also, ApolloImperium is right. She plagiarized your work. If you can somehow use that to screw her over while you ditch her, all the better. She deserves it for being such a fucktard.

I sincerely hope you'll find someone who'll treat you right and help you get over this awful experience.

[djackgirl]

Thanks guys, you honestly have no idea how good it is to know that it wasn't just me assuming things and over reacting. I am going to most definitely beta for others here more so than there I think, if anyone will have me haha.

@Apollo I'm glad of that, I honestly have never heard of someone just using an entire written chapter by the beta as the actual post, I was more shocked that she hadn't bothered to work on it and send me another draft and try and get her into the swing of things so I'm not going through an entire chapter each time and rewriting it because of how cringing it was, I was trying to explain to her that things need to be drawn out but she asked me not to go technical so I complied.

It was a comparing chapter; she reads that one, sees how it could be done and then edits her own to meet that standard or higher. I said it was fine when she asked if she could use a few parts from the first chapter into the final post but not a whole chapter. Guess they take that as free reign to use as much as they want.

Oh well no more rambling on it, today I'm more than likely cutting loose from her gonna tell her to go and find another beta who is highly familiar with the fandom.

And I'm gonna brush up on my beta skills and what I will and will not do now after this experience. Eye opener but I guess its cause I'm too nice *kicks self, be meaner woman*

Thanks so much for not making me feel like the ultimate whiner and pain guys cause I seriously felt like it.

DJ

[pittwitch]

What that writer did was awful. You deserved to whine, and you really weren't.

Again, I strongly recommend an audition of sorts before committing to a project. You get a feel for the person's writing, grammar skills, etc. They get a feel for how strict you are, etc.

I absolutely am horrid at commenting on style, etc. I've been called a grammar-nazi, in both the RL and fiction life. Few people like working with me that way. I expect the same from my betas, both of whom are bigger grammar-nazis than I am. One likes to read for style and content, the other just for grammar, hence the reason why for serious work, I use two. You'll get the hang of what you can stomach and not. Not everyone is going to mesh.

No one ever has the right to take something you wrote and use it for their own. You, as a beta, do not ever have to rewrite someone's chapter. That is way beyond the call of duty.

[djackgirl]

Haha, I still felt like it.

Yeah next time I'm not going to just be nice and helpful, I wanna see what they can do before agreeing to help.

I was strict with editing at first and then she didn't like it so I toned it down and did a comparison chapter as I call it, I do it to my own all the time, I write a chapter and then write it again and see what works better, what doesn't, etc, so the comparison chapter was to point out where she needed to work on, like her detailing, I can not stand having to edit just lines of dialogue with little thought and imagery behind them which was originally what I told her she had to work on more than anything and I wanted to show her. I guess I am partly to blame for writing out the chapter, I can admit that openly, but I was trying to help its in my nature. I've always been like it.

People taking advantage of kindness, no wonder why this world is so messed up these days. I just cannot believe that someone would do something like that and not think that the beta is going to check up on how she went with "editing" her version.

[Shadowknight12]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you said she was a teenager. Unless she's a genius psychopath with perfect social skills, you honestly should have seen this coming. The people who do this sort of despicable things very rarely fail to give out warning signs. If you want to get some good out of all this, look back on your relationship with her and see if you can detect these signs. After all, hindsight is 20/20. Then, learn from that and keep it in mind for the future. The moment someone begins to follow the same path, you ditch them. And also, try to set up boundaries from the beginning next time.

But don't beat yourself too hard over this either. You did your best and there's a ton of better and more mature writers that would beat each other up for a chance to have you as a beta. So yeah, just gain whatever wisdom you can from this and keep it up. Don't let a bad experience sour you or anything.

[djackgirl]

Not harsh at all, I'm grateful to hear the truth from people, I'm not nearly as experienced as most of the people on here nor am I as old or wise so it does some good to hear wisdom.

I'm not beating myself up over it anymore now that I've cut loose. Thank you so much, believe me I couldn't have posted this anywhere else and gotten such advice, that's a fact. I am grateful for the help all too, it hasn't soured me but it has definitely opened my eyes.

[DemonGoddess]

Glad to hear it hasn't soured you. There are many open beta requests here.

[FairySlayer]

Yes, I agree: drop anyone who's abusing your kindness like that. I've suffered through the "no good deed goes unpunished" traumas before, but I'll spare everyone the gory details.

This thread makes me truly appreciate my current beta partnership. We are in sync, have realistic expectations and, not least of all, enjoy each other's work too. She is as much an editor as a proofreader, and I try to be the same for her; however, if one decides not to use some corrections or notes, the other doesn't take it personally.

Sure, I would beta read reasonable-length stories for others too, but I have a few rules that I make clear from the beginning. They're the ones I use myself, and they actually make things much easier for both people.

[djackgirl]

I love my three betas (two for Lord of the Rings and one for my King Arthur newbies coming), they are wonderful and I was trying to be how they are when talking to me, they keep in touch and ask me this and that so they know where I'm going with something.

She didn't answer my questions when I did that

I've reported her.

Had to because she replied to my message and said she would take it down but instead she left it up and just removed the underlining and put it all in bold text.

[ApolloImperium]

Good luck!

[Solaris]

I beta read for this one girl and she sent me what she called a test to test my skill. I told her that no beta reader likes to be tested like that. She said it was her online daughter's idea to test me. I told her she could end up losing me faster than she thinks. If you were in my shoes and you were given this test, wouldn't you be pissed.

She sent me the real chapter for me to beta read. I gave her a harsh critic to her story, basically telling her she really needs to rewrite the story, but she just took what I did and left my suggestions of rewriting the story entirely. Her story was not very good, as she didn't really do much of anything as in making her OFC more than a stick figure and a Mary Sue.

I ended up dumping her soon after and it has ended my beta reading career but if someone I know and I know they write very well, I may beta read for them.

Solaris

[djackgirl]

Test for beta readers? What the... Yes I would be pissed to. I'm glad that this has brought people into sharing bad experiences with some painful authors.

She sounded like she wasn't very mature.

See this is the problem, the author thinks that when we critic harshly we are being mean or unfair, I don't understand it- they want help but then they just ignore it all.

It doesn't like the story would be much good if she went and did that.

I am not gonna beta for a while I decided, or at least until I have more time and the author is worthwhile betaing for.

DJ

[DemonGoddess]

I'll tell ya. This just points even more strongly as to why the beta should be picky, and set ground rules from the start.

It also points to the fact that I was LUCKY in the authors who chose to work with me. I was upfront and honest with what I could do and was willing to do as a beta reader, they returned the favor in telling me what they needed from a beta in the first place.

Knowing to say no to a prospective writer who's expectations of a beta reader is helpful as well. Just as it is helpful on the OTHER side, where the author knows to say no when the beta oversteps his or her bounds.

A trial phase as pittwitch mentioned is helpful as well. Think about it. An author may not like your style in how you beta, and you may not like what you find with an author that you are beta reading for. What a test chapter does, is let the beta and the writer find out if they're going to be able to work together. In order for you to have a successful working relationship with each other, it's best you find this out right away.

[pittwitch]

Actually, PerfectImagination does indeed test and qualify betas. So there is a beta test. Boy, that sounded weird. Beta test a beta?

DJ: if you are going to invest your time in helping someone with a story, you deserve the same respect from them as they give you.

Good luck!

There are plenty of decent authors in the world who know how to treat a beta. I hope your next experience is more pleasant.

[FairySlayer]

Being asked to take a test or give an example wouldn't insult me. An author doesn't want to wait days or weeks just to be burned with a lousy proofreading job. I usually just look at the potential beta's writing to decide, and then what they proofread is a test by itself.

There's one very gratifying experience I've had as a beta. I agreed to proofread a huge new chapter of and epic-length story. His biggest problem was using too much redundant language. Here's a made-up example, only slightly exaggerated:

"Why did you do that," she asked, wanting to know his reasons.

Along with typos and whatnot it seemed to need half an hour of work per page. Instead I "reduced" (mostly cut, occasionally re-worded) about a page and a half down to one. I sent it back along with an explanation that he could cut a few pages off the chapter while making it easier to read.

To my surprise and delight, he took the advice and spent a few days reworking it. The new draft was much easier to proofread plus I got to enjoy the story itself in the process.

It was a great (perhaps selfish) pleasure to have someone take my advice so seriously even though it was a lot of work for him.