Battle Of The Sexes

[Guest Agaib]

Just a random question for you forum goers. I'm curious what you think.

Traditionally it is thought that the men in western society (and most others also) are the dominant oppressors over the female gender. But of course some people question this.

Here are some examples that come to mind.

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Discrimination against Men:

Men are often scolded and made fun of for showing their feelings

Women can say "all men are pigs", but a man cannot say "all women are whores" without seeming sexist to some extent.

Men are expected traditionally to make all of the money and this can be stressful

If a man hits a woman he's demonized. If a woman hits a man she's standing up for herself.

Some states actually have laws that state that a woman cannot be charged for raping a man.

Men are bombarded by unreal images of what an "attractive" man should look like.

Men are more likely to be murdered

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In defense of Women:

Women have historically been denied important rights (such as voting)

Women are traditionally portrayed as weak and silly

Women who are too masculine are often shunned by men. Men who are overly feminine are not shunned by women.

Women are traditionally expected to be the primary care givers for children, which is a stressful thing to do.

Western society creates an unrealistic self image which often leads to eating disorders (anorexia, bulimia, etc.)

Western society can seemingly try to produce sexually vulnerable women. (In order to make them more "attractive")

Women are more likely to be raped

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So does it all turn out fair in the end now-a-days? Or is one more discriminated?

My intuition tends to point Me to women being more oppressed by society. But I'm a male sexual Dominant, so I could by biased.

[dazzledfirestar]

Historically, yes women have had it a bit harder. That being said, I think there is a dangerous backlash that we (women) can do or say what we want to men and they have to take it because we did. That's absolute crap in my mind. It seems to me that some women have decided that equal isn't good enough. But that could just be me!

[Guest Agaib]

I think the term is "Femmenazi". On the other hand, there are still a few backward places in the US where women are expected to keep their mouths shut have sex on demand with whoever their father married them to.

[StoryJunkie]

Women who are too masculine are often shunned by men. Men who are overly feminine are not shunned by women.

Hm, I never noticed that one. food for thought.

Meh, I have ambiguous "Amazon" roots. That is to say, in the Scythian empire, there were a group of women purportedly virgins who cut of their right breasts and lived a life as priestesses to the earth mother. So they say. However, I think this is pure conjecture. The word "amazon" is a greek one meaning "without breast". So any sort of information about them is second hand. I believe that the Greek society, mostly Patriarchal, could not believe that women could bear arms and therefore, their men must be wimps. This could not be further from the truth. The idea that men and women shared work equally was simply mind-boggling.

When you think about the entire Amazon mythology, you have to take into account the mind set of the "decendants" of the Amazons, the Russians and Ukrainians who had always "allowed" women and men equal chance at whatever job they wanted to do. It's always been that way. Western Europeans and Asian, with the exception of perhaps the Mongolian people, have lived in a Patriarchal society. The idea of women taking equal share in the work seems ludicrous to them.

To me, it makes women lazy to be treated like glass.

Similarly, amoung Eastern and Northern people, in the males, lack of facial hair is a common trait. It is also a feminine trait and linked to surviving in harsh environments. There's food for thought.

[Guest lightgoddess]

Truthfully, I think that if we rid ourselves of the double standards in our society, then the stereotypes will soon fall with them. It's about changing your view on society and the world around you. When I say the double standards I mean things like:

Men who get plastic surgery are vain. Yes, there is a stigma about men and plastic surgery, but are men not allowed to feel sexy and attractive (or is that just a woman thing)?

All masculine women are lesbians. I can not tell you how many times I have been just point blank asked if I were a lesbian. I'm 6 feet tall, keep my hair cut just below my ears, and I have a large build and fat neck, so obviously I must be a butch lesbian. Until about two years ago, I didn't wear make-up, either, so that just kind of cemented it, apparently... except for the gold wedding band on my left ring finger. (OH! She must be partnered! *vomit*)

I think that it is important for both men and women to dare to break the stereotypes we are set into and shrug off the discriminatory behavior (or report it!) without letting political correctness get too mixed up.

It is very easy for a woman who is good with a hammer and nails to fix up on the house and let her husband cook supper or for a husband who wants to let his wife work and use the Degree she worked so hard to get, to sit at home with the children.

I think that if society is discriminating against people, it's those who believe wholeheartedly in the stereotypes and those who choose to push them aside and follow their hearts that feel it the most.

[StoryJunkie]

My sister-in-law is an engineer. One of her jobs took her up north. She enjoyed what she thought was an accepting camraderie from the guys at the bar, who nick-named her "butch". She is petite, short dark hair, her features are a little on the masculine side, but she is all woman. She did not know what "butch" meant, because she laughed and enjoyed the nick-name. When she related the story to me, I just got a cold hard feeling in my stomach, because inspite of her age, she was actually pretty innocent, and I just wanted to drift those guys. Stupid rednecks! They must have been so disconcerted by the way she just accepted their insult. She was the boss and knew more than them, and she was assertive, and made more money than they did. That's because she's smart and reasonable. Those guys had to re-think their situation.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

See... ugh. This is getting really annoying. Why can't a person just be a person? Last I checked, there was more to the mind then what's in a person's pants. Given, there are certain chemical things that will typically make a person act in a certain way. At the same time, a lot of that is also upbringing. If a boy is raised to never show emotion and all the typical "Man" traits, it'll engender an asshole. However, if he's raised as he is, you're more likely to create a really cool guy.

The same goes for women. Women are taught to act, talk, think and dress in a certain way, much the same as Men are. They are taught to seek out a guy who will take care of them, to be "inticing" and to fuck with a man's head. Unless you're a spy, that's disgusting behavior and can cause more problems then start.

As for who's battered more, well, Women have Put Down Minority Syndrome. "Oh, I am <this opressed thing>! I have the right to opress others because I have been done wrong in the past. WAH!" Alot of the problems with women are the same issues other "Opressed People" have: They were put down in the past, so they expect special treatment now (which they're getting). Also, a lot of them put themselves into the situation of the Dreaded Stereotype.

Not to mention that so-called "Feminists" attack OTHER WOMEN. "I want women to do whatever it is they wish to do as long as it's not in the home and is a high paying career or something that was traditionally mens work!" ...uh.. Excuse me? All these women treat Stay at Home Mom's and an other women who work in traditionally female roles are Anti-Feminists. NO, they're the true feminists. They do what they want. What they want to do is stay at home with their kids and take care of them and raise them so they can know who their kids are. Families can't really work like on the Cosbey Show, where both parents have jobs that would normally keep them out of the home most of the time and yet still be close to their children. It doesn't work that way. Children need constant attention. This, however, is not to say I believe all women should stay with the kids. The man can stay home too. It works, trust me. My family did it. My mom had a decent paying job and my dad's an artist, so he stayed home with my sister and I. I'm happy he did. I would've starved

But, seriously people. It seems to me that people can only see in extremes. There is no middle ground for these folks. It's either one or the other. Honestly, until the world can learn to see in shades of gray, we're doomed.

[Guest Adara]

I third that idea. I am a stay at home mom. I happen to also have a daughter. I like staying at home with her. As a matter of fact, if I could make more revenue for the family from home, then I would! Feminism is suppose to be about empowerment. I have the choice to have a career outside the home, or stay at home and take care of my daughter.

I think the true feminist idea is to be able to show my daughter that it was MY choice to stay and be with her. So she'll know that for her, that too can be an option. My husband works, yet he's stayed at home too. We switch roles to whatever works for us.

I am very tired of the femmenazi crap. I mean, if they're SO superior, they should be drafter too. WHy should that only be for men? In all honesty, I have never been discriminated against because I was a woman.

I think situations are now somewhat unfair to men. It's like this whole idea that it's okay because they "oppressed" us for so long, blah, blah, blah. It's just a bunch of bullshit.

[dazzledfirestar]

I agree with what you are both saying. There are always shades of gray. If there wasn't, the world would be a very boring place. But at the same time, I see nothing wrong with taking pride in ones femininty, AS LONG AS it doesn't put the other aspects of your personality at a disadvantage.

I have a job that, traditionally, would be a man's job, but that doesn't mean I should sacrifice my feminine side just for that job. I should be able to do what I do (which includes heavy labor and driving forklifts and the like) and not have someone I work with shocked when they meet me outside of a work environment and I'm a girly girl. I can't count the number of times I've heard "Wow, you really are a girl!" Well no shit Sherlock. What tipped you off??

I'm sure that men in traditionally female jobs face the same issue. Have you ever giggled at a male nurse? I'm sure not very many people here would, but still.

Maybe people should just be people, but to quote the old broadway tune, "I enjoy being a girl!" and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that either.

[Iggy_lovechild]

I love you pix.

Gods I'm so sick of gender biased bullshit I could spit.

Both genders are equally fucked, nothing's easy when you put labels to it and stereotyping, and that's that. May as well start a thread entitled "Who's got it worse: The Asians or the Blacks" for all the good these sorts of discussions do.

Ugh. Cranky and tired. Sorry.

[Guest Agaib]

Well I didn't mean for this topic to get so serious. I was really more interested in hearing about more petty whinings. Perhaps I touched on somthing a little too sensitive then. Sorry about that if I offended you guys.

[StoryJunkie]

It is my nature as a woman to argue...

LOL, sry, couldn't keep a straight face... (yeah, how dare you?)

n e way...there are certain traits that men have that women don't have, the major one (which is unseen) being the connection between the two sides of the brain. In men, it is smaller than in women, and is the reason women can multi-task and men can think 3 dimensionally. Women carry their emotions closer to the surface and are engineered to nuture offspring. It's recently been discovered that a woman's body pours out chemicals after a baby is born, just so that she can multi-task even more than usual. For men, to be the way they are emotionally (and I do hate to generalize, because I've seen the entire spectrum within my own family),but to keep it simple, my husband says: 'guys are hard-wired to provide.'

Also, to give the femnazis some credit, you may not remember the dislocation between the sexes, where women were not allowed into men's clubs, and these places were from which many political decisions were made, places of power from which women were ostracised. (Men spent their days there scratching their nay nays, I suppose, and talking about the fish that got away more likely)

(I know dislocation is the wrong word, but its not quite apartheid, is it?)

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Also, to give the femnazis some credit, you may not remember the dislocation between the sexes, where women were not allowed into men's clubs, and these places were from which many political decisions were made, places of power from which women were ostracised.  (Men spent their days there scratching their nay nays, I suppose, and talking about the fish that got away more likely)

(I know dislocation is the wrong word, but its not quite apartheid, is it?)

An like I said "I was opressed, so I must opress others" is not a justification for anything. Yeah, women had it hard, but guess what. That's life. No one has it easy. It's one thing to fight for equality, it's another thing completly to fight for supremecy and incidently CAUSING THE WOMEN'S RIGHT MOVEMENT TO SLOW DOWN! Between FemmeNazism and the group of women who were to busy buying pearls to give a rats ass whether they had rights or not and the other group who soundly believed that women should be barefoot and in the kitchen, it's a wonder the Women's Right's Movement has gotten as far as it has!

On a side note: All of my Bi- or Homosexual female friends has chemical imbalances caused by an overabundance of testosterone being made in their bodies. Uh... anyone else see the connection, or is it just me?

EDIT: Also, I'd like to note that I can't multi-task for shit, while thy love can do it near flawless. Note: Love is male.

At the same time, funny things have been said about are personalities. Naminly, the androgonous aspects of our personalities, so who knows.

[Nanaea]

Not to mention that so-called "Feminists" attack OTHER WOMEN. "I want women to do whatever it is they wish to do as long as it's not in the home and is a high paying career or something that was traditionally mens work!" ...uh.. Excuse me? All these women treat Stay at Home Mom's and an other women who work in traditionally female roles are Anti-Feminists. NO, they're the true feminists. They do what they want. What they want to do is stay at home with their kids and take care of them and raise them so they can know who their kids are. Families can't really work like on the Cosbey Show, where both parents have jobs that would normally keep them out of the home most of the time and yet still be close to their children. It doesn't work that way. Children need constant attention. This, however, is not to say I believe all women should stay with the kids. The man can stay home too. It works, trust me. My family did it. My mom had a decent paying job and my dad's an artist, so he stayed home with my sister and I. I'm happy he did. I would've starved

But, seriously people. It seems to me that people can only see in extremes. There is no middle ground for these folks. It's either one or the other. Honestly, until the world can learn to see in shades of gray, we're doomed.

All I can say is "Amen, sister!"

[Guest Big Samurai]

This is one of those problems that, IMO, lies squarely in the lap of the traditionally evil ruling class: Old White Alpha Males (OWAM). The unbalanced social order continues to exist because this group, the same one that civil rights activists, feminists, and other progressive thinkers once fought, is still in power, and will likely be so 'til they all die off and their hand-picked replacements are booted to the side by all of those beta, gamma, and omega males who have been disenfranchised and emasculated by them.

I firmly believe that there is a strong current of social change, and it will take place, but only once the patriarchs are gone, and I suspect that will be only be solved by time and inertia. Once the OWAM are dead and gone, there will be a vacuum to be filled, and it will be filled by the gender-balanced, multi-racial demographic that was envisioned during social movements of the 1960s.

That, of course, is the ideal situation. The reality is that the OWAM are likely to cling tenaciously to power until they are actively thwarted, but I do think that I will live long enough to see the day when they are all gone.

[foeofthelance]

Pity me, for I am a white middle class conservative catholic male of slightly above average intelligence. I am the most feared, hated, and despised creature in the known universe. I could list the many ways in which I'm despised, but alas, have not the year it would take.

Honestly? Guys are probably the most abused. Partly because guys are more likely to put women on a pedestal then the women are to put men on a pedastal. Guys think in a more broader sense, where as woman make more individual comparisons. Thus guys will take the actions of a single woman and apply it to the whole, while woman seem to keep individual score sheets.

Notes I've made-

-Guys tip better. It doesn't matter who the server is, though a woman will get a better tip then a guy. This may be because guys have a deeper work ethic engrained into them, while women have become used to the idea of a guy serving them. This is a generalization and is not true in all cases.

-Even if they say otherwise, women expect guys to be chivalrous, where as there is no reverse tradition for woman to coddle men. Even confessed feminists have admitted to me they see a guy holding the door, picking up the check, etc. as their right, not their privilege, and become offended if treated otherwise.

-Women are generally more critical then guys. When two guys meet, they either feel the urge to beat the crap out of each other or they get along. And this continues barring some massive infraction against one or the other. Women will pick up and any percieved slight, real or non existant, and devour the thought of it, breaking it down a hundred different ways. I've watched this happen.

How to change this? Well, I don't know. I disagree with Samurai about who's to blame. Yes there are OWAM, and they do enjoy a lot of power. But that's because a lot of the people who also want the power are generally unwilling to work for it. There is no such thing as a free lunch, yet a lot of the minorities( though I don't like the term.) look for a quick fix instead of a permanent one. Half tempted to rant, but I'll end it there.

[StoryJunkie]

In a study done regarding gorillas and their alpha leader, it was found that the leader was the only one with a certain hormone, so I guess, whether male or female, (the bulbous part of their skull is an indication of their leadership qualities, and it develops in the female if it doesn't in the male) they've got what no other in their group has. For the most part, it has been a "silverback" male.

On another note, in my business, and I include myself in this observation, women will complain about a bill way more than a man would, and more women (excuse me) are bordering psychotic about it if you are adamant in your pricing. I just have to shake my head and hang it in shame. Some women are real pieces of work, and think that everyone in the heating business is out to take advantage of them.

On the other hand, old women who are retired, are the best customers. They pay their bills on time and are complimentary and grateful, and there seems to be a reverse of the earlier observation. Old men appear more vulnerable and tend to take up a lot of a service person's time.

Maybe there's just a lot of stress in our society.

And just to let you know, everyone has testosterone, both male and female. Men lack estrogen.

http://healthfully.org/highinterestmedical/id11.html

As for multi-tasking, I've taken it to mean not necessarily organized, but the ability to keep track of several things at once. Men tend to focus on one thing at a time, although they can do several things in a row. Hm. I'll look into it more. Multi-tasking seems a vague term to me. It may simply mean that girls can put things together simply by reading instructions, whereas a boy will be shown it being done, then they can do it.

It's been proven that boys and girls learn differently. Boys tend to focus their reading interests on non-fictional technical works, whereas girls tend to focus their reading interests on fictional works, but again, this is a tendancy, and not set in stone.

[Guest Pink Lace]

It depends on what culture you are living in so I cannot comment on American culture as I am not American. In Asian culture I would say it is women who are more opressed - however the ones who opress them are other women. Women raise their daughters to be nice and obedient while looking the other way when male offspring drink, smoke, chase girls, etc. as these are "sowing oats." Asian men are also much more hugely spoiled by their womenfolk. My brother has never laundered or ironed a single piece of clothing in his entire life and he is 30, married, with a kid and a doctor for a wife.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

Fortunately, it's good to know that no matter what sex you are or encounter, they all have an equal chance of being dumber than a bag of amoebas.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Fortunately, it's good to know that no matter what sex you are or encounter, they all have an equal chance of being dumber than a bag of amoebas.

Damn skippin'

[Guest Yhitzak]

Well I didn't mean for this topic to get so serious. I was really more interested in hearing about more petty whinings. Perhaps I touched on somthing a little too sensitive then. Sorry about that if I offended you guys.

I'm trying to think of something non-offensive to say, but... I'm a bit floored by this statement (to say nothing of many, many of the others on this string). Are you being foolish, I wonder? Or just... optimistic? I don't suppose it matters, but know right now that when you remark on *any* topic that *could* invoke personal opinions, you get what you asked for. (Strangely, I didn't mean this as a slam; I'm just not sure how to be candid without being offensive.)

I think it's funny that amid all of this battle-of-the-sexes bullshit, not *one* of you who have posted here have given any justification for these things whatsoever. It seems like most of you have simply been regurgitating the things you've been told by your parents or by the news media; none of these opinions represent new or progressive notions. This surprises me because I've read posts by you on other boards, etc., and they are all reasonably well-justified. This particular string seems like a list of justifications for bad behavior, instead of an examination of human behavior (as the original post on this string seems to have indicated).

This whole sexism battle seems lame to me and here is why: traditional gender roles are the way that they are for one reason alone (a reason I am honestly surprised no one else has bothered to mention): PROCREATION! Long ago, when survival still mattered, household tasks were divided between men and women according to ability. Men went to work outside of the home because it was *logical*. Women (unless I'm somehow mistaken) are the only facet of the human species who have the capability of giving birth. (Before anyone else mentions it, male-pregnancy is nothing more than a theory; besides that, any laboratory procedure does not qualify as natural, and it is nature that I am discussing, here.) Because women are the ones that give birth, they are also the ones who provide the best nourishment for newborn children. Honestly, what sense does it make for a man to stay at home with a newborn child and send his wife -who provides the best possible nourishment for said child- to do tasks that she is not physically able to do as well as he is?

Before ya'll get all uppity about this remark, please allow me a moment to continue on with some commentary about the changing of society. It is true that we no longer need to survive in the manner that we once did (hell, we can create babies in test-tubes and when we lack a mother's milk, we can go buy a can from the grocery store), and that the once solidly-defined roles of men and women are changing in a very realistic manner. It is true that women and men can do the same sorts of jobs, often with the same effectiveness. This is why society updates itself, why women are allowed in to circles that only men ever previously participated in, and vice-versa. What it also means (at least in my estimation of it) is that procreation isn't that big an issue in the human scheme of things.

So if procreation is small beans, what *is* this larger issue? In a word: superiority. In a more explicit explanation, the battle between the sexes is the fault of *both* sexes because each one perceives itself to be better or higher than the other. Whether one is speaking of patriarchial or matriarchial societies, certain points prove true: one sex is always seen as better than the other. If one needs support for this particular statement, I suggest you go back to the very first post on this string and read the list of bigotries by both groups.

I should warn you right now that the following statements are made as generalizations, and I realize that they do not hold true at all times and in all situations in life.

From personal observation, I've noticed that men and women keep themselves in chains. Sex or gender-based stereotypes are more often perpetuated by the sex that they fall under than the opposite. What I mean to say is that women have a tendency to make themselves appear weak and that men have a tendency to make themselves appear arrogant. Similarly, one cannot have power over another unless that person has relinquished his/her power over themselves. Society might be changing (allowing persons of certain sexes into fields of interest that have been traditionally reserved for one sex or the other, and the list goes on), but the social views of male and female have pretty much remained the same for all time: women are soft and men are hard, women are nurturing and men are warriors, etc. We, as people, know that these things do not hold true in all circumstances in life, but since a small group can hardly be expected to move the masses, the whole of society continues to stay in this rut.

The real issue herein (at least so far as I can see it) is the sexualization of non-sexual attributes. For example (and this is just *one* example): wine coolers are considered to be a women's drink; if a man is drinking a wine cooler, he *must* be gay. There is virtually no logic involved in this train of thought, yet this same sort of conclusion is reached by many people in many situations the world over, every single day.

The most effective way of combatting sexual stereotypes is to not allow yourself to fall into them, to be aware of your self and your participation in your own life and the world, and to stand strong when faced with opposition. Corollary to this notion, it is also paramount to combat wrongdoings when you are faced with them. Choosing your battles is often easier said than done, but if we all face this battle as the warriors we inherently are, society -as a whole- *will* change. It will not happen over night, over a month, or even over a year; social progress takes years of reform and it starts with each and every individual within it.

If you don't like sexual stereotypes, do not allow yourself to give in to them. *That* is the most effective method of social reform *ever*.

[Guest Adara]

There's also the ruthlessness with one another. I mean, I'm sure most of us remember the "popular" girls versus those less trendy and popular. Cruelty certainly was a huge factor in girl's behavior.

I think we behave this way because it's instinct. We for some strange reason ( or perhaps not so strange if one factors in how young women used to marry back in the day.) at that particular age begin to "fight" for the best looking boys. I say fight because I've actually NEVER seen a physical fight for ANY guy between girls in person. But we women use our verbatim and condescending tones at full force whenever we see the, "competition"

Ahem, back to my point. We are programed to look for the "virile" stronger male in the pack. We want good offspring, so good genes, well, breed good genes. Hence the cut throat competitive and down right aggressive behavior between girls for guys.

I'm not sure if any of you have gone through this experience, but I hardly see many guys going after their friend's girl, but I have noticed many women doing just that. Men have a mentality that is, "If not with this one, then with another." While women I've noticed tend to think or behave as if that her best friend's man is the ONLY man with such good qualities, and they simply MUST have him.

So it comes down to this: Is it pettiness on our part as women? To risk screwing over a friendship for a man? Or are men simply less critical of what kind of woman they end up with? Or am I just on crack?

[Guest Agaib]

I'm trying to think of something non-offensive to say, but... I'm a bit floored by this statement (to say nothing of many, many of the others on this string). Are you being foolish, I wonder? Or just... optimistic? I don't suppose it matters, but know right now that when you remark on *any* topic that *could* invoke personal opinions, you get what you asked for. (Strangely, I didn't mean this as a slam; I'm just not sure how to be candid without being offensive.)

I will admit that I am an optimistic person. I find that there is no point in looking at the entire world and convincing Myself that everything is impossible so one shouldn't try. However, I'm not a naive person. I understand many of the different subtleties that make up every person's personality. When I made that statement it was out of courtesy, something I wish more people tried to do. I was apologizing for angering anyone by bringing up such an old argument because some of the other posters had appeared to express anger about it being brought up. In truth I will admit I wasn't terribly sorry because anyone who did not want to involve themselves in something like this would merely have to ignore the thread. I'll admit that it makes Me upset when trying to be pleasant is met with others perceiving Me as an idiot.

On the subject of stereotypes…

I like to try to look at several different viewpoints. I can't say that I've completely decided on what I will believe concerning the matter, but I like to make sure I don't reject something before giving it a proper analysis. Many people like to demonize stereotypes, and they like to blame them for causing all of the evil in the world (This may be true but it's not My point). Some others may argue, however, that one should look at the reason stereotypes exist in the world. It is possible that the reason stereotypes exist is for those people, who have an extremely difficult time creating an identity for themselves, to use in order to try to model themselves in a socially acceptable way. Despite all of this talk about being your "true self" and such we are all guilty of conforming to a "stereotype" which I will define as a perceived common image of behavior and appearance for a specific group. We probably all conform to the stereotype that socially acceptable people wear clothing (There are possible exceptions and I'm not saying that anyone holding those beliefs is necessarily wrong). So why then did we decide that people need to wear clothes, men should have sex with women, that men should be the warriors, that women should be caretakers, that we can't have sex in the middle of the park. You may not recognize these stereotypes, but imagine an alien who does not believe any of these things, the stereotype that that alien would develop for man kind would be an awkward person who adheres to strange and seemingly meaningless social rules. In the end, the stereotypes are created for some level of social order. The particularly bad ones are created when our strides for social order exceed our level of judgment.

So I pose these questions...

Which of these stereotypes should humans get rid of to be a better group? Which ones should stay in order for us to maintain order? Should we maintain order? (I believe we should maintain some level of order but not all would agree with Me.)

[Guest echtrae]

And if we solve all of lifes problems, what'll we have left to entertain us? Television?

I'm sure we'll find something else to keep ourselves entertained.

[Guest Agaib]

Sex is admittedly very entertaining also. It doesn't matter which one is opressed when it comes to consentual sex. It's the one moment where the rest of the world can be forgotten and men and women (possibly men and men and women and women) can joint togeather for the sake of indulgence. And anyone who does not allow themselves that one moment of indulgence by either not having sex or refusing to enjoy it properly should be pitied.