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CloverReef

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  1. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Arian-Sinclair in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Ohhh yes. I love endearments in other languages. Dragon Age Inquisition; what was it Iron Bull calls the MC? Kadan? I love that. If timed right, it can be sooo powerful. If timed wrong, it can be super cheesy lol. 
  2. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Anesor in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Too me, as a reader, too much of another language can take me right out of a story. I don’t want to have to read dialogue in another language and then have the author translate in narration or have to keep referring to a glossary or authors note to try and decode it myself. It can easily come off as self-indulgent. I’m sure some writers do it well enough that they can get away with being indulgent. I mean, there are whole sects in geek culture who have learned Klingon (You can find courses to learn it!) and elvish. Some people like that kinda thing. Not me. But some people. 
    For me, it has to fit organically. And to fit organically, as a writer, I’ve made rules for myself when I include other languages. 
    If it’s in the perspective of someone who understands the language, then it will be written in English, in italics, with tags clearly stating they’re speaking in this other language.  If the perspective is of someone who doesn’t understand the language, then only bits and pieces they’ll realistically pick up will be written out.  If the speaker is speaking English, but throwing in slang words, such as ‘Ese’, ‘vato’, ‘gringo’, ‘Tabernacle’, etc, then the word is used with italics. And in this case, use them sparingly, unless its one word used frequently so the reader doesn’t constantly have to google or go back in the story to find the meaning.  To me, full sentences would be a big no-no. I can’t think of a reason in which I can justify them. Much less full conversations. 
  3. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Arian-Sinclair in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Absolutely. Showing over telling is my preference with most things too, but I usually write in a character’s perspectives. (Limited 3rd or even 1st) so I try to write true to their experiences, if that makes any sense. If you’re sitting there listening to someone speaking a language you don’t understand, it’s unlikely you’ll catch every word they’re saying. It’ll sound like a string of vaguely familiar or completely unfamiliar syllables. It’ll usually get written out in my story, (hopefully) as an active descriptive sentence, rather than dialogue. Unless the perspective character would understand it, in which case, I’ll write it out in English in italics. 
    Honestly, I’m not sure what I’d do in omniscient 3rd. I haven’t written in that POV in like 10 years lol. Rules might be a bit different I imagine. 
  4. Like
    CloverReef reacted to Avaloyuru in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Using other languages in a story is a real iffy situation for the most part.  I personally only use it in my Tolkien related fanfiction, even then it’s primarily limited to greetings, acknowledgments, or other short (2-3 word) phrases.  But I do not use another language in any of my original works.
    I think a lot of that depends on the ‘audience’ as well, such as with the Star Trek fans, I had a few friends years ago who enjoyed bothering the crap out of everyone around them by talking to each other mostly in Klingon (shaking my head).  Similarly, with Tolkien, there are a lot of people who take the courses to learn it and use it excessively.  Which isn’t a problem as long as it’s not entire sentences or a full conversation.  I have a large Sindarin vocabulary and understand what they are saying, with a few exceptions.
    Regardless, it’s a personal choice if the author wants to do that, but it’s something that can be viewed as a huge distraction to some readers.
  5. Like
    CloverReef reacted to Desiderius Price in Histrionics   
    The article itself was short, really short, because I kinda expected a longer explanation, like how it was indicative of bad style, etc, not just a barking-the-order type of thing.
  6. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Avaloyuru in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Too me, as a reader, too much of another language can take me right out of a story. I don’t want to have to read dialogue in another language and then have the author translate in narration or have to keep referring to a glossary or authors note to try and decode it myself. It can easily come off as self-indulgent. I’m sure some writers do it well enough that they can get away with being indulgent. I mean, there are whole sects in geek culture who have learned Klingon (You can find courses to learn it!) and elvish. Some people like that kinda thing. Not me. But some people. 
    For me, it has to fit organically. And to fit organically, as a writer, I’ve made rules for myself when I include other languages. 
    If it’s in the perspective of someone who understands the language, then it will be written in English, in italics, with tags clearly stating they’re speaking in this other language.  If the perspective is of someone who doesn’t understand the language, then only bits and pieces they’ll realistically pick up will be written out.  If the speaker is speaking English, but throwing in slang words, such as ‘Ese’, ‘vato’, ‘gringo’, ‘Tabernacle’, etc, then the word is used with italics. And in this case, use them sparingly, unless its one word used frequently so the reader doesn’t constantly have to google or go back in the story to find the meaning.  To me, full sentences would be a big no-no. I can’t think of a reason in which I can justify them. Much less full conversations. 
  7. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Anesor in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Ohhh yes. I love endearments in other languages. Dragon Age Inquisition; what was it Iron Bull calls the MC? Kadan? I love that. If timed right, it can be sooo powerful. If timed wrong, it can be super cheesy lol. 
  8. Like
    CloverReef reacted to BronxWench in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Let me start by saying I am fairly decent in Elvish, have a working knowledge of draconic and Ilythiiri, and have a few phrases in Klingon under my belt, just to establish my seriously geeky credentials.
    I use endearments in other languages. I might throw in a sentence or two, if my character is in a situation where the person with them has no clue what they’re saying. In that case, I want the reader to be as confused as the listener. Currently, I’m abusing Welsh, because I can, but I’ve mangled Irish Gaelic for my own purposes, too. And in fandoms, I do use the conlangs from those fandoms, because I expect my readers to understand the words and phrases, too. 
    I guess that puts me on the fence, so to speak. I do use other languages, I don’t always translate or include a glossary, but I don’t do entire paragraphs or even frequent full sentences in those languages.
  9. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from BronxWench in A Question of Other Languages In Your Story   
    Too me, as a reader, too much of another language can take me right out of a story. I don’t want to have to read dialogue in another language and then have the author translate in narration or have to keep referring to a glossary or authors note to try and decode it myself. It can easily come off as self-indulgent. I’m sure some writers do it well enough that they can get away with being indulgent. I mean, there are whole sects in geek culture who have learned Klingon (You can find courses to learn it!) and elvish. Some people like that kinda thing. Not me. But some people. 
    For me, it has to fit organically. And to fit organically, as a writer, I’ve made rules for myself when I include other languages. 
    If it’s in the perspective of someone who understands the language, then it will be written in English, in italics, with tags clearly stating they’re speaking in this other language.  If the perspective is of someone who doesn’t understand the language, then only bits and pieces they’ll realistically pick up will be written out.  If the speaker is speaking English, but throwing in slang words, such as ‘Ese’, ‘vato’, ‘gringo’, ‘Tabernacle’, etc, then the word is used with italics. And in this case, use them sparingly, unless its one word used frequently so the reader doesn’t constantly have to google or go back in the story to find the meaning.  To me, full sentences would be a big no-no. I can’t think of a reason in which I can justify them. Much less full conversations. 
  10. Like
    CloverReef reacted to Avaloyuru in Histrionics   
    Wow!  Going to the link to see the entire blurb written, I would have to agree that this ‘advice’ does not apply ‘across the board’ and I don’t say that because I’ve used the ‘slamming door’ action to emphasize something a character just said.  I've also used it when that same character was alone but was so completely frustrated or angry there was a need to expend energy. 
    I have hot-headed characters as well as those who hide that aspect of themselves from others.  Therefore, in private they react in what would be viewed as a violent manner to release some of the anger or even rage they feel inside.  For example, I have this one character who is viewed by most of the other characters as 'meek and mild' yet she threw a book across the room because she was pissed off.
    I feel old cliche's do have a place in writings as long as they fit within the characters established personality and the setting they are used.  Using them does not reflect poor or substandard writing skills, in my opinion.
  11. Like
    CloverReef reacted to KassX in The Big Question   
    The ability to enter fictional worlds and never return please  
  12. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from JayDee in The Big Question   
    Based on my personality and plethora of anxieties... The ability to fade from attention. Like a stranger sees me and is all like "that creature looks totally approachable and not terrified of me at all so I'd better make it converse with me." Then i could just smile and nod and with my epic power i could make them lose interest and go away. I think I'd get that power because i already kinda do it with awkwardness. 
    Edit: excuse the errors. Wrote this on my phone. 
  13. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Arian-Sinclair in Histrionics   
    Okay, I need to talk about this because it made me angry. As things usually do when they start calling writers who do a certain thing ‘lazy’. 
    http://inventingrealityeditingservice.typepad.com/inventing_reality_editing/2014/09/cut-plot-cliché-of-histrionic-exit.html
    I somewhat agree with avoiding cliche plot things, but the histrionics? We’re advising writers to cut bold actions now just because they’re dramatic? People do dramatic things. Some people slam doors when they’re angry. The little gestures like the balling of fists is good advice, but telling the writer not to have characters slam doors just seems totally counter intuitive to me. And Ending a scene on that note, when appropriate, and when it fits the characters and the circumstances, doesn’t seem lazy to me. 
    Can I get an “Amen”? Or a “fuck you clovey”? No, really, someone tell me I’m not crazy, please. 
    Edit: plus WTF? Since when are we telling writers to delete relevant physical actions? 
    Edit 2: This kinda turned into a rant, but it’s meant to be a discussion lol. I’m stressed. Let me be pissy. 
  14. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from GeorgeGlass in The Big Question   
    Based on my personality and plethora of anxieties... The ability to fade from attention. Like a stranger sees me and is all like "that creature looks totally approachable and not terrified of me at all so I'd better make it converse with me." Then i could just smile and nod and with my epic power i could make them lose interest and go away. I think I'd get that power because i already kinda do it with awkwardness. 
    Edit: excuse the errors. Wrote this on my phone. 
  15. Like
    CloverReef reacted to BronxWench in The Big Question   
    Well, yes, because stealing my wallet is up close and personal, so I can smack you for that. But usually the parking offenses occur when I’m not looking, so it’s either I get to vaporize the car, or I channel 6 sumo wrestlers to pick it up, move it, and drop it into one space. And I do mean drop it. 
  16. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from JayDee in The Big Question   
    I like how specific your power is going to be. Someone steals your wallet, you try to vaporize them and all you get is a little steam kuz they’re properly parked. 
  17. Like
    CloverReef reacted to BronxWench in The Big Question   
    The power to vaporize idiots who take more than one parking place. Really. I’m generally pretty easygoing, but I absolutely explode when faced with that sort of self-important, self-indulgent, self-centered behavior. And after I vaporize their car, I’m going to disintegrate all their participation awards, from preschool right on up. 
  18. Like
    CloverReef reacted to Anesor in Histrionics   
    Well, I think the blog writer is not really writing for us as his audience. He’s writing for the really new people who don’t include much more to this than the drama queen door slam. We’re already adding emotional description and doorjam breaking.

    His essay is actually pretty short, and half is a shill for his service. The meat is almost in this one sentence: “This involves punctuating the end of a scene with a physical action aimed at evoking an emotional response in the reader.” Putting all the emphasis on the door slam, the gun shot, or the choking of the pregnant Senator instead of the rest of the fight. Focusing on the violence of the scene instead of the meaning. Describing and showing the rest is a lot harder than describing the slam.

    There’s nothing really wrong with the hint, but it’s a bit simplistic as written. Sort of like coming down hard on a drama queen slam, instead of explaining the whole problem in the scene.

    I think that makes it a funny slam, because he’s written the same thing he’s complaining about. And it doesn’t do that much to make his skills look good.
  19. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from yukihimedono in Histrionics   
    Okay, I need to talk about this because it made me angry. As things usually do when they start calling writers who do a certain thing ‘lazy’. 
    http://inventingrealityeditingservice.typepad.com/inventing_reality_editing/2014/09/cut-plot-cliché-of-histrionic-exit.html
    I somewhat agree with avoiding cliche plot things, but the histrionics? We’re advising writers to cut bold actions now just because they’re dramatic? People do dramatic things. Some people slam doors when they’re angry. The little gestures like the balling of fists is good advice, but telling the writer not to have characters slam doors just seems totally counter intuitive to me. And Ending a scene on that note, when appropriate, and when it fits the characters and the circumstances, doesn’t seem lazy to me. 
    Can I get an “Amen”? Or a “fuck you clovey”? No, really, someone tell me I’m not crazy, please. 
    Edit: plus WTF? Since when are we telling writers to delete relevant physical actions? 
    Edit 2: This kinda turned into a rant, but it’s meant to be a discussion lol. I’m stressed. Let me be pissy. 
  20. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Arian-Sinclair in Histrionics   
    I totally agree if slamming the door is not in the character's 'character' then it is bad. As is absolutely anything else they might do that isn't like them. Like balling their fists if they're super good at hiding emotions. Assuming we're talking about everything written well and in character, then I think that histrionic exit is a powerful tool and removing it for the sake of more stylistic shit would be a mistake. 
    I agree with you Praeter too, to a point. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with cliches and there are times when they're absolutely the right thing to do, but in general I would suggest people avoid cliche plot twists/tools just because they are predictable and run the risk of boring the reader. Well maybe not avoid, but use sparingly. 
  21. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from JayDee in The Big Question   
    No, not ‘Will you marry me’. I’m talking about the REAL big question. You’re all fellow nerds and geeks, you should know this! 
    If you could have a superpower, what would it be?
    I need to know. Because I thought of mine, and that made me wonder about yours. If I had a super evil super power, it would be the ability to control people’s words. Not their thoughts, their action, or their message. I pretty much just want to edit the way people talk. Especially the way they talk to me, because lack of tact and TMI moments in public really grate on my nerves lol. Okay, supervillains, talk to me! (I guess you heroes can talk too, but… you know, use your inside voice.)
  22. Like
    CloverReef reacted to Tcr in The Big Question   
    Well, shit...  Here I thought there was a marriage proposal...  Well...  I'm disappointed.  Back to bed for me…
     (close enough...)
    Damn, still here...  Ummm...  look at the pussy! 
    Fine, I'll answer…
    To be honest, probably be able to get rid of the idiots in the world...  Like (fwoosh)...  Or maybe that's just work talking....  and this city...  Hmm...  Higher level intellect?  I wouldn't mind having that...  Intelligently rule the world ;).
  23. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Anesor in Histrionics   
    I totally agree if slamming the door is not in the character's 'character' then it is bad. As is absolutely anything else they might do that isn't like them. Like balling their fists if they're super good at hiding emotions. Assuming we're talking about everything written well and in character, then I think that histrionic exit is a powerful tool and removing it for the sake of more stylistic shit would be a mistake. 
    I agree with you Praeter too, to a point. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with cliches and there are times when they're absolutely the right thing to do, but in general I would suggest people avoid cliche plot twists/tools just because they are predictable and run the risk of boring the reader. Well maybe not avoid, but use sparingly. 
  24. Like
    CloverReef got a reaction from Arian-Sinclair in Romance Author has wordmark on "Cocky" and is issuing takedown notices when others use it in titles   
    I now follow the author dedicated to fighting her on Twitter, so I can follow the insanity without adding to her follower count. So I can be amused/baffled/angry daily. 
  25. Like
    CloverReef reacted to BronxWench in Histrionics   
    I think this is another case of editing via blog, and it’s unfortunate. It’s on a par with the writing advice word police, who tell us to remove “that” from a manuscript...except the Chicago Manual of Style (6-27) clearly tells us “that” is used for restrictive/essential phrases and “which” is used for nonrestrictive phrases, i.e., the sky filled with clouds that held the promise of a storm versus the sky which was blue.
    Look, anything used poorly is awful, I agree. But a blog or writing advice column is not the be-all and end-all for an author. The very best writing shows, not tells, and a good door slamming is a great show.
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