CloverReef

Now I want to see all the writers on this thread do a collection of MPREG shorts.

I feel a lot of loyalty to this site. Maybe it’s because I’ve been here for 12 years now. Because I know that the staff is fair, capable and helpful, and other sites haven’t really been impressive on that front so far. I found the AO3 terms of service, in regards to original fiction, contradictory and confusing, so though I made an account there, I have no idea if I’m allowed to post anything. I could always just contact them if I had the time, I suppose, but that’s not always realistic with a social anxiety disorder, and I feel like the ToS should be clear about things like that, so I’ve been pretty hesitant even though they seem like an awesome site. But really? Fanfiction dot net? I don’t even feel comfortable writing out that link. The fact that you even mentioned it as an alternative to AFF made me shudder lol. That’s just mean and uncalled for.

I like getting credit for encouraging people. Blame counts as credit! As for the questions, I definitely always feel self-conscious about my writing, though not necessarily for the same reasons as the topic on the original post. Personally, I think the last time I actually felt like I was exposing myself, was the first time I ever wrote smut. People made fun of my story on the forum I posted it on (it was god awful, but thanks to their mocking I avoided posting smut for another year after that.) But other than that one time, I can’t say I’ve ever actually felt like I was exposing myself… But I have felt like I’ve been at the reader’s mercy. They sound like one in the same, but for some reason they’re entirely different issues in my head. Like, I’m afraid people won’t like what I wrote or they’ll ridicule it, but I’m never worried about what they’ll think the content says about me as a person? I don’t feel like I’m giving too much. Sometimes I worry I’m not giving enough of myself. Those are usually the times I’ll delete the entirety of a chapter a dozen times and rewrite. That’s part of the reason I don’t post things often. Spend too much time agonizing over every little word, wondering how I can thrust more personality into it, and I never post until I’m sure. Sometimes I don’t even write until I’m sure. Definitely something I personally need to overcome. Not going to touch the changes topic. I think you already addressed it perfectly. Can lines be crossed? Fuck yes. Some lines need to be crossed. Some lines shouldn’t be crossed. My personal lines, content-wise, are with stories with minors. That’s something I won’t likely cross, but don’t fault others for crossing it. And there are lines I don’t think -anyone- should cross. Like using a story as a platform to advocate or support the oppression/abuse or the removal of basic human rights from individuals or whole groups of people. If your story makes a whole group of people in general feel attacked, or unsafe, or fearing for their lives, I’d definitely say that’s crossing a line that should not be crossed.

Twinsies!

@sweetmamajama yeah crawling within is the one with which I got the most criticism. Much of it was valid criticism, of course. But that is easily my favorite story that I've written. @mastershakeme I'm glad you came back. Whenever you start to doubt your writing talk to me and I'll remind you how fucking awesome you are. It takes mad confidence of proportions I have never witnessed to be a happy writer without a support system of other writers going through similar trials. I have always had that support, and I still have had my fair share of melt downs where I took down stories and debated deleting my account. We got your back hun.

I know this was directed at someone else, but I just want to put out there that there's totally a time and place for the stereotypical antagonist. Some writers avoid stereotypes as much as possible. And that's a pretty good rule to live by, especially if you're unsure of yourself. Or if you don't appreciate them to begin with. If you bristle at the snobby waiter trope at a high class restaurant no matter how well it's done, you should probably avoid it in your own writing. However, If stereotypes and 2 dimensional characters are tools you want to learn how and when to use effectively, the learning process does tend to take the trial and error route. Personally, I avoid combining them and I avoid 2 dimensional chars more than I do stereotypes. If your main antagonist embodies a number of stereotypes but is multi faceted and you love him and what he brings to your story, that is a valid character. I might be repeating myself with all this, but I love stereotypes. They're so fun to play with.

My god, this is hard to answer, yet I feel compelled. Been writing smut 14ish years. For the first four I didn't even know I could get turned on, to be perfectly honest. I wrote out of morbid curiosity. Then I was writing m/m specifically because it was so far removed from my own sexuality that it was non threatening. It was about abandoning the expectations of gender roles to me, so the sex I was writing had meaning, but by no means did it get my engine revving. It's just recently, within the last 2 years that I really began to get into the smut I was writing on that level. Maybe I evolved, maybe I devolved, but either way it definitely changed the way I write those scenes.

I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short so as not to anger the auto correct gods. Definitely the story I loved the most failed to get the reception I expected. It didn't get silence so much as by far the most criticism out of any of my stories, and I've posted some real stinkers that received heaps of nothing but praise. So yeah it was baffling to me that something I thought of as my best work was so negatively received. I've also had ones I was so excited about posting. Thought they were so well written and I was convinced they played perfectly to the audience. Then i posted and... crickets. So that was fun lol. You'd think it would be humbling, but I'm quite good at blaming everyone but me. (Okay, so I didn't really keep it short.)

I don’t know... I think it could totally work as a go-to response for most online interactions. At least that’s what happened in my head when I read it not knowing what it was in response to! That was fun.

lol I don’t know who you are, but I like you. 100% read shit out loud! I feel the need to glare smugly at someone (he knows who he is) about that, but I’m too lazy to be an asshole today. Your points are well put and with examples to back them up. I agree with most of the things you say, and am actually kinda impressed with how thought-out and concise you are about explaining. The only thing I just mildly disagree with is that naming was the most unimportant. Though, I understand you were likely speaking relatively to other aspects of planning a character.

I don’t know. I partly agree and disagree. Like, I see what you’re saying. As a reader, I usually don’t go around checking into the meaning and etymology of a character’s name. But for me personally, names hold power the same way words hold power. Sometimes I’ll avoid reading a story just because the naming is too generic or too indulgent. And it can be an interesting extension to a character if you make a statement with their name, such as a timid little mouse of a character named Butch lol. There’s also the emphasizing or expressing some aspect of your character’s background or personality through naming, but that kinda thing is so subjective. It has more to do with sound for me than meaning. For others, meaning is very important.

Excellent tips, PenStoryTeller. You’ve made me wanna throw a fake-out deus ex in my current story lol.

Man I haaaate writing summaries. It was easier when I was just beginning and didn’t put any thought into it. Back when my writing was terrible but my fandom was great at stroking my budding ego anyway. Over the years I’ve tried many ‘techniques’. Mostly those techniques involved trying to read the readers’ minds, and putting in what I thought they’d want to hear (in M/M my best guess was stuff about the main pairing). Now, though, I tend to pick the two most important parts of the plot to focus on, and try to mention something specific and/or personal about the main char. Ideally, I’d mention the love interest too, since it’s still M/M, but that’s not always doable. So yeah, I’m very interested in this topic as well. Can’t wait to hear how other people tackle this beast.

Do the numbers you prefer to write with match what you generally prefer when you’re reading?

I was gonna ask if the multi-appendaged people jumping school girls are female multi-appendaged people, but I’m afraid we may have gotten off topic. Um, so yeah… Diversity is good. Another thing about writing a diverse cast I really like, is that research GeorgeGlass mentioned. It kinda forces you into learning about other types of people, and learn a little about things you’ve never experienced before. If you do it well, it’s an excellent lesson in empathy.

I’m sorry! What do your people prefer to be called? Tentacled gentlemen?

I’d totally love to see more autistic or aspergers characters. Or aliens! Aliens are fun too. Tentacle monsters with deep, multi-faceted personalities need more representation in erotica.

That is helpful. It’s good to know not everyone gets intimidated by a longish page of text like I do.

Uh, random, drive-by critique? Jeez, I had no idea replying to a thread was putting my writing on trial I was talking about culture because original post specified culture, but to be fair I did mention sexuality in my reply as well. Of course, there are many ways to portray diversity: diversity in religion, in politics, disabilities, disorders, genders, species? It’d be awesome to be able to portray diversity in many ways.

This is actually something I think about a lot. Like way more than I should: word count. I really do obsess over it. I have a certain number range in which I try to keep most of my chapters (though some deviate if there isn’t a natural scene end within the range). And as a reader, I get intimidated easily by long chapters. As readers, what are your thoughts about word count (or page count)? What’s the ideal length for the first chapter of a story you’re reading for the first time? As writers/readers, do your preferences when you write differ from your preferences when you read?

You’re probably right, DP, but that made me shudder a lil bit. I try to make my characters so vastly different than me or anyone I know so it’s more fun to explore them and get to know them lol. Anyway… TCR, I totally used to do the all-white cast thing. Which is weird, because I grew up in a neighbourhood with like 50% plus of plains cree. But I guess since my experience was of a white person, my view of the world was pretty white-washed. It never really even occurred to me to put in a diverse cast in my first few years of writing. Even when I wrote a story that took place in the Louisiana bayou, they were all white. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, but it sure does leave a lot to be desired. So in the last 10 or so years, I’ve been enjoying creating more diverse casts. Trying to make my worlds seem more real, and my characters more varied in all aspects. I don’t really try to steer away from stereotypes, though when I do use stereotypes, I want them to be so well rounded, they don’t feel like a stereotype, you know? Because when you think of a stereotype for gay men, one of the first that comes to mind is effeminate. And effeminate gay guys do exist, and shouldn’t be excluded just because they’ve been treated like the butt of a joke, you know? So when writers use stereotypes, I just expect them to put a lot of love into developing them. Same would go for cultures. If you’re going to use a negative cultural stereotype, I’d definitely hope there’d be something in their character to balance them out.

Only in the good way, luv.

The point is, it’s there if they want to look for it. Then there’s people like me who enjoy a good mystery so we can passively watch the MC go through the hints and solve it without us having to do any braining.

I agree on the not warning the audience there’s a hint. Part of the fun is trying to discern what’s a hint, especially with the subtle stuff, and what’s not. Let your writing speak for itself.