Rude Positive Reviews

[EveKnight75]

Recently, I got the following review:

Diana Mystery

You know, it is SO hard to find fanfiction that is creative, well-written, and respectful to canon.

Thank goodness I stumbled upon this.

You obviously care enough to check over each chapter for spelling and grammar. You appreciate both positive and negative constructive criticism, so you truly want honest feedback. I like the way you used the mist as a plot device. It's faithful to the supernatural genre of Martin Mystery. At the same time, you could easily write a ridiculous sex scene and use the mist to justify it - but you didn't. You chose to take things slowly, and have them act like themselves.

What this shows me is that you are a mature enough writer to focus on the actual plot, events, and characters, instead of jumping straight to the sex - which would be unrealistic anyway. Who would jump straight into the sack with their step-sibling without giving it a second thought? No one. Realistically, step-siblings would actually consider the consequences before having a sexual relationship.

Most people are under the impression that adult fiction is all about gore, heavy violence, or meaningless graphic sex. I believe that there is so much more to it. When I read adult fiction, I'd expect those things, but I'd also expect a certain level of mental maturity as evidence that the fiction is written by an actual adult as opposed to a horny 12-year-old. You, my dear, have the mind of a mature adult and the skills of a seasoned writer, even if you're only 19.

Speaking of mature writing - you might want to check out "Lustful" by "deathbyhedonism". S/he has not only stolen your mist idea, but incorporated it into a poorly written PWP. I think it's an insult to your fic. I'm new at using the rating system, and rated it 5 by accident when I meant to rate it a 1.

I look forward to reading the next chapter and future sex scenes. I may like meaningful writing but I want a good Martin/Diana sex scene too. I've already sent an e-mail asking for updates.

I'm glad she liked the fic and that she thinks I'm an amazing author, but that was condescending in some areas. What does she mean by "only 19"? Is it that unusual for someone my age to be mature and a good writer? Was the comment about "a horny 12-year-old" directed at the other author and all PWP writers?

She also claimed to have e-mailed me, and yet she threw in the accusation in the review. (She did e-mail me asking to be on an update list, by the way.)

Was that really necessary? The whole thing could have been dealt with privately. In fact, one of my other reviewers, sweetblood, chose to do exactly that. She gave me the links, gave me her opinion of the fic, and asked me to check it out for myself. All in an e-mail.

Later, I got this review on my fic:

I have decided to take minute, or so, to address some complaints and accusations. I have specifically chosen to do it in this place, firstly, because many of the accusers will most likely read it here and second because it has something to do with eveknight and his/her story.

First and foremost I would like to address the accusations of plagiarism from several members of the community. I wrote this story close to a year ago, and just recently posted it. Due in part to the down time on the site and my on apathy. I bring this up not to say it was written before eveknight's but to make the point I did not read this story until recently after mine was compared to this one. The fact that there is "mist" in my story does not warrant plagiarism. All it proves is that I saw the episode where they were in the Amazon with the killer mist, fog, or smoke. It's not that inventive, not taking any credit from eveknight's work . Also, I don't appreciate being called a plagiarist, because it is pretty much the worst literary crime that's out there.

Second, I deleted the story because after reading my story over I recalled why I almost failed English during my freshman year. So, it was not out of any guilt, that someone who plagiarizes, or anything like that but due to the fact it was bad and no longer up to my standards of writing. After reading several books since then on writing styles, grammar, and punctuation my writing has thankfully improved. I will be writing a new Martin/Diana fic, because it is a shame that there is only one on this site(no matter how good it is). This one will be better, beta-read, and purposely completely different from eveknight's. I ask only that it is given a fair chance and not judged based on the embarrassing and lackluster piece of writing I submitted before.

Third and lastly, thank you everyone for your criticism good, bad and ugly. Even Diana Mystery's who took some cheapshots, although didn't refer to me directly but it was kind of obvious, but I didn't mind except for the age crack which is just, for lack of a better term, uncool and uncalled for because it is bad-mannered. By the by, destructive criticism is a not a term for negative criticism, but for criticism that isn't helpful and viscious such as flames.

Eveknight75 great fic loved it can't wait for next chapter.

deathbyhedonism

I'll admit that I've had two people inform me of the situation - only two. I never got to read the fic. I didn't make any accusations or file any reports. On top of that, it comes off as if I have a posse and I'm trying to start a flame war, but I'd do no such thing.

The worst part - this was deathbyhedonism's first posted fic. Now I'm feeling guilty. S/he seems like a mature person to me, and I don't want to have been the one to make things bad for him/her somehow. I did reply and ask him/her to e-mail me so we can straighten the whole situation out.

deathbyhedonism hasn't e-mailed me yet. However, sweetblood and I have decided to team up and write an article outlining tips on providing concrit, including etiquette. I've already started a thread over at Writing Tips, asking others to throw in tips. I've read the article Tips for Leaving Better Reviews in Resources, and it's gotten a lot of negative feedback, including a negative review from me, and I think Melody Fate.

I guess my question is this: how do you deal with a rude positive review? The reviewer is saying good things, but the tone is extremely rude and irks you. Better yet, how do you deal with the situation if the reviewer drags another party into it without consent, and unwittingly tarnishes your reputation in the process? All without giving her the impression that her useful feedback wasn't appreciated (because it was).

Sorry about the rant, but this is really gnawing at me.

[Squallfan]

Can't say that I ever got one of those. I did get a few flames before, that were way out of line. Though the person that gave you the review seemed to put any writer down that writes PWP's and the lot. That annoyed me. Obviously, that person doesn't have to read them, but will bitch about them anyway, I hate when people do that. Is plot important for an adult story, of course, but there is nothing wrong with having some sex thrown in there for fun. That's the way I think about it anyway. I understood where they were coming from on a few points, but I see what you mean about it being a rude positive review.

[Guest Big Samurai]

Is it that unusual for someone my age to be mature and a good writer?

Forgive me for saying it, EK, but ... yes.

As far as rude reviews go, well, no matter how the concrit was delivered, at least somebody was reading. Have to be optimistic about the whole thing.

[Iggy_lovechild]

I don't know.... Sometimes I get the whole "this is a really great fic for yaoi" or "I-usually-can't-stand-this-pairing-but...." I'm a little paranoid. I wonder if the author read the story because it sounded interesting or because they were looking for something to flame. I also have gotten a lot of weird "this-character-is-kinda-OOC" because I dared to portray them in a manner against the common grain.

[Madame Manga]

After posting smutfic on the Net for as long as I have (going on 12 years) I highly recommend developing two essential writer's assets: a rhinoceros-thick skin and an unflappably optimistic sense of humor.

Anything that anyone says about your precious, slaved-over, dear-to-your-heart baby, aka dirty fic, will sound different to you, the author, than how that person intended it to sound. Guaranteed, no matter how well that person expresses herself. It's much healthier for the blood pressure, and usually more accurate to the reviewer's genuine intention, to assume always that she meant it in the best possible sense.

However, it's difficult for me to tease anything resembling even an inadvertent insult out of review #1. That's not a skill that's worth developing, for your own sake. Why look for bugs in the bouquet? Better to practice taking even vile flames as lightly as possible, which is something you can often transfer to real-life situations. Equanimity, or even just not giving a shit, is power.

MM

[EveKnight75]

You know what? If the insults were directed only towards me or jabbed at an broad audience in general, I could have easily handled it. I've been flamed before, and it rolled straight off my back. Hell, I've even laughed at some of them.

I guess what's really bothering me is that she managed to drag someone else into this. She compared someone else to me in an effort to make that other person look bad, and I think it was uncalled for.

What I'm worried about is that this is going to create issues between not only me and this other writer, but between me and anyone else who attempts to post a fic in that section. I truly don't want that. I don't want exclusive rights over the section, and I don't want someone to assume that I'm that type of person because of one person's review. In short, I don't want to intimidate others somehow. I guess it's a matter of reputation, no matter how petty that sounds.

I've tried to contact the other writer, but s/he's not responding, and it worries me more. I guess I could fix the issue by deleting the review, but I have no idea whether or not Diana Mystery is vindictive. I've had issues with hate mail in my old AFF account, and I don't want to deal with that again so soon.

(sigh) I guess I could concentrate on writing that article about concrit to take my mind off things. Don't know how long that'd last though.

[Guest cu-kid]

I agree with Madame Manga. I would take the initial review as a compliment without meaning to insult. It's so hard, sometimes, to understand exactly how people mean things online because you can't hear the inflections of their voice. I've been guilty many times of taking something the wrong way when talking to people on IM or in e-mails. I would take the comment about your age as a compliment too. Really, it's not that it's unusual for people your age to be good, mature writers, sometimes it's just unusual to find good, mature writing -from anyone.

I wouldn't feel too terrible about deathbyhedonism's decision to take down his/her fic; after all, it was his choice. It's unfortunate that you're an innocent bystander in it, but I wouldn't feel responsible for it.

I have also received the "I don't normally read/like stories like this" reviews and I take them as compliments -regardless of the reviewer's original intentions (flame, destructive criticism, etc.)- because it just proves to me that, no matter what they thought it was going to be (even if they thought they were going to hate it) I still got them to read it and -more importantly- made them take time out of their day just to tell me about it.

I would probably deal with the situation by just telling Diana Mystery what I thought -as nicely as possible, of course. Just let him/her know that the review and compliments were appreciated, but that it was in poor taste to bash another author's fic in a review for your story. If s/he wanted to do that, s/he could have left a review on that author's story.

I think your idea to write about how people can better give concrit is a great idea (I read the posting "Tips for Leaving Better Reviews" and I think it came off snotty as well). There's an amazing lack of helpful criticism and good etiquette out there these days.

[Madame Manga]

I wouldn't feel too terrible about deathbyhedonism's decision to take down his/her fic; after all, it was his choice. It's unfortunate that you're an innocent bystander in it, but I wouldn't feel responsible for it.

There you have it. Again with the benefit of way too much experience in fic circles, IMO the best response to someone else's bashing of another author, even if undertaken on your "behalf", is to ignore it as completely as if it had never been brought up at all. It has nothing whatsoever to do with you or your reputation unless you let it.

These little sturm-und-drangs that forums and fic sites are so fond of creating can eat up all your time and creative energy if you fall into the trap of feeding them. Don't even be tempted to engage in the discussion -- silence conveys more than anything you could say, and does it without dragging your own tail in the tar.

MM

[Rezalda]

I agree with Madame (heh), that it's best not to let it get to you. I mean, if someone's going to get mad at you because of something someone else said, that's their problem. Who knows? Maybe they're the same person with too much time on their hands.

[Guest Adara]

Well, I think what Eve was trying to say was that it did bother her.

It's good to try and remember that many people sometimes don't really read through their posts to see if what they write can be perceived negatively.

In all honesty I think Eve has a right to be bother by it. She also shoulld very well speak out on this other author's behalf if she feels it's the right thing to do. I mean, she does have a right to state that it is incorrect to badmouth anyone on a review post for a story that doesn't even belong to said "plagerist" writer.

Some people need to learn to either tell those who they dislike or think are doing something "illegal" what they think to their face, or learn not say anything at all. It isn't right, and it's down right cowardly.

Eve has a right to not have any of that attached to her stories and say something about it.

[EveKnight75]

Thank you Adara!

That's precisely what the problem was. I do realize that the story in actuality was posted. One of the reviewers, sweetblood, happens to be someone I trust as far as reviewing goes. That's why she's the one I'm working with to write the concrit article.

I also have very good news. deathbyhedonism has finally e-mailed me back. Everything's cool between us.

Sweetblood's comments were helpful and in no way could be misconstrued as mean or a flame.

Apparently, he was a bit put-off by Diana Mystery's jab at one point, but it no longer bothers him.

He's sent me the piece he pulled down. I see the similarity, but I don't think it's even close to plagiarism. In fact, I'm going to edit it. That's right - I'm his new beta!

I've also removed the reply thread to Diana's review from the fic's review board, pasted it to LJ, and decided to rant a bit there. I'm sure my rep should be OK, but the best way to tell is by the responses I receive from other reviewers in the future.

All in all, this has wrapped up very nicely, except for the part where sweetblood accidentally hinted at the fact that I was insulted by her remark about my age. Still, if Diana didn't mean it as an insult, I should be fine.

I guess all I can do is wait and see how Diana Mystery reviews other Martin Mystery fics at "the other site". If most of them have something rude in them, then I'll know that perhaps it's just her, and can point her to the concrit article once it's posted.

[AmyMcClair]

EveKnight75 Posted #12 on November 19, 2006 10:23 am

I guess all I can do is wait and see how Diana Mystery reviews other Martin Mystery fics at "the other site". If most of them have something rude in them, then I'll know that perhaps it's just her, and can point her to the concrit article once it's posted.

I think this is the best way to handle the situation. Believe it or not, there are people out there who do not understand that what they say can be taken negatively. My brothers are prime examples of that. Not saying anything to her until you see whether this was a one time deal or natural for her, I think, is the best course of action.

[Guest Helluin]

Eve, outsider perspective coming late to the whole thing, but it sounds like you put great efforts into smoothing out a mess that some random reviewer dragged you into-- well done on the diplomacy-and-helping-new-writers front!

A general observation. I have been known to write one of those "this story falls outside my usual kink, but it's so well-written that I enjoyed it" reviews. Or, "I don't usually like yaoi, but..." or something along those lines.

I occasionally dip into stories that don't fit my personal preferences because so few people DO write my personal preferences. In cases where I'm reading something outside my normal frame of reference, I'm on less certain ground as far as being able to give concrit. So I give a comment like the above for two reasons. 1) to say: "congrats, your writing is so good that it's enjoyable even for folks who normally wouldn't be able to enjoy this!" and 2) to say: "here's my honest impression, but take it with a grain of salt, since I don't have the same tastes as you..."

Neither one is meant to insult the author.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd thread 'o' mancy instead, seeing as how it pertains to the same topic.

Just today, I received a new review for my Bleach/Get Backers x-over fic. It's a concrit, but I find it rather condescending. Here it be:

Body of review from The Daxinator follows:

Hm. An interesting idea to be sure. Normally I'd never even open a story that's summary hints at a huge story, but only has a few chapters, but I guess that it's a credit to how intriguing the idea is that I ever did. I’m looking forward to seeing how things develop—though I encourage you watch yourself and make sure that the gigai doesn’t turn into a Mary Sue that everyone’s got the hots and/or give her some sort of tragic back story. Both are glaringly clichéd ideas that have been overused to the point that most readers will hit the backspace button the moment they get a whiff of such a thing going on.

Another thing that I noticed is your vocabulary. You often use words that I can imagine sounding a lot like the word you’re looking for, but they’re definitely not. For instance, “forced documents” which should have been “forged documents”. I’m not trying to box your ears in over it or anything so please don’t think that I am. I used to do it too when I was a young writer and was just sort of stumbling through learning the complexities of the English language, but still trying to write like a seasoned pro. We hear the words used or read them in a book, but when we try to incorporate them into our own writing, the exact sound or spelling of them kinda just flies out the window. Trust me; I know what it’s like. The thing that helped me—and still often does—is an online dictionary/thesaurus. I personally use dictionary . com because it works as a thesaurus as well. And one more thing before I go, you don’t have to italicize the word Shinigami, the suffixes, or the names of cities. In fact, it detracts from the story. Use the bold and italics settings to emphasize. At first, I thought that Hevn was using the kun and san suffixes to be snide with them and I was pretty confused until I realize that wasn’t the case.

Keep it up though. As I said before all the bull, the idea really grabs me and I would love to see an update eventually.

The concerns she makes are valid, but I feel like beating her over the head and screaming at her "I've been doing this for YEARS, BITCH!" The first part with the fear of the OC becoming a Mary Sue isn't really what annoyed me. It's a VERY valid fear that MANY people do without thinking. I was just gonna make sure to address that issue in the author's note of my next chapter.

It's the second paragraph that got me, where she assumes because of a typo that I'm just trying to use big words. Forged, folks. I fucking know what forged means. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to write. At all. I'd be dead from stupid.

She says things like "used to do it too when I was a young writer" which really grates me.

Is it wrong that I'm so burnt up about that? Am I being silly?

Edited August 4, 2007 by Alien Pirate Pixagi

[Elvy]

The review doesn't look like an insult to me. I think the individual was trying to explain their thought process on what makes "childish" versus "mature" writing styles. As far as the comment about your age I think the person was just trying to say that you write above and beyond those of your same age. I can see how her method could seem cryptic as far as the compliment aspect is concerned.

In regards to the other individual's "plagerized" fic, it's always good to have other people looking out for your and your work. However, if you haven't contacted deathbyhedonism and they haven't contacted you (but proceeded to make their own decisions on how to handle everyone else's issues with them) I do not believe you should feel guilty for their decisions. If you found that they WERE copying you word-for-word and you said something about it and caused a drama war over the whole ordeal then I could see where the guilt of maybe over-reacting could get involved.

Basically, you can't feel guilty for other people's actions and what they decide to do if you haven't gotten yourself directly involved in the issue. If other people decide to make a stink at them over your work then that's their business, and deathbyhedonism can choose to refute or defend themselves as they wish.

[EveKnight75]

In regards to the other individual's "plagerized" fic, it's always good to have other people looking out for your and your work. However, if you haven't contacted deathbyhedonism and they haven't contacted you (but proceeded to make their own decisions on how to handle everyone else's issues with them) I do not believe you should feel guilty for their decisions. If you found that they WERE copying you word-for-word and you said something about it and caused a drama war over the whole ordeal then I could see where the guilt of maybe over-reacting could get involved.

Basically, you can't feel guilty for other people's actions and what they decide to do if you haven't gotten yourself directly involved in the issue. If other people decide to make a stink at them over your work then that's their business, and deathbyhedonism can choose to refute or defend themselves as they wish.

Elvy, you just reminded me of something.

I had already edited deathbyhedonism's fic for spelling/grammar errors and sent it back several months ago. The fic was never re-posted. I'm gonna contact him again on that.

It is nice to have other people looking out for your work. I agree with you on that. It's the manner they choose to go about doing so that counts to me. I believe you should give the author a say in the matter instead of attempting to fix the situation for them yourself. This applies even more strongly when you don't have an established relationship with said author you're supposedly defending.

I'm afraid I simply can't fully agree with "there's no need to get involved in a drama war if you're not at fault even if your name's involved". If your name's involved, your work and reputation is at risk. Get involved, but don't attempt to make things worse. Try to contact the other party and make peace, try to diffuse the drama war, and defend yourself without attacking the other party no matter how tempting it is.

As far as I can see, the situation has been resolved, but precisely because I chose to worry about it. Diana Mystery chose not only to flame a first-timer, she did it by accusing the person of plagiarism, throwing my name in there, then insulting deathbyhedonism by name when reviewing my fic. She also admitted that she reported the fic in order to "help me out".

I had never even heard of Diana Mystery before then. Do you see why I felt a bit insulted at that point?

It's one thing to be condescending to me. I can handle that even if I don't like it. Once I get over it, I try to look on the bright side and be happy that my work left a favorable impression. What I don't appreciate is some stranger creating a potential flame war in an attempt to "help me out". Someone else who didn't know about the situation could have come along and easily misinterpret things so that I look like a snob and an elitist. Despite the fact that I wouldn't have had done anything wrong in the first place. And I honestly wouldn't have been able to blame them because it's all too possible that I would have done the same in their position (but I'd be more passive and simply not refer to or review the "snob").

Indeed, this would have happened if not for two things. deathbyhedonism turned out to be a mature adult and realized that I was not at fault. Considering the way things have been at AFF lately, most people in his position would have spread nasty rumors about me, try to gather a posse against me, and flame the hell out of my fics. I was lucky!

The other thing was sweetblood's intervention. I actually have known her for a long time, and she's fairly well-recognized as a reviewer in the fandom. After she read Diana Mystery's review on my fic, she contacted me and informed me of the situation. She herself had reviewed deathbyhedonism's fic and saw the similarities, but didn't file any reports. She's one of the biggest reasons I was able to fix the situation with deathbyhedonism. She chose to inform me of the entire situation involving my own fic and let me deal with it. That is "helping me out".

It's not enough to simply not encourage a flame war. It's important to take active steps to discourage it and diffuse the situation, especially when you're in a primary position to do so.

[trekqueen]

Interesting situations you guys have. It is a bit annoying when people assume things especially the age situation. Eve, I think you handled it well. Pixagi, yours reminds me of someone I've had a couple run-ins with recently with condescending/veiled-insults reviews. The best thing is to ignore those people because it is all about attention and pumping their egos and selfishness.

My recent rude reviewer in question (not on AFF, FFnet but that's kind of expected eh?) tries to give "advice" but in the end, when one reads it carefully, there are well-phrased and placed hidden jabs. I thought I might have just been a bit sensitive but after writing to that person and receiving a PM, I saw I was right all along because she was a bit more obvious with her rudeness. Plus, she tried to "blackmail" me to modify my fic so that she would add me to her favorites. Geez I'm not that much of a review/friending whore. She even has a place in her forums where she flames and puts down people who don't kiss her feet and the ground she walks on after she "helps them". Yea... great reviewer indeed...

[fawnheart]

Rude positive reviews, I ignore the bad stuff and encourage the good. No matter what you do people are either gonna love you or hate you and if you let yourself get dragged into the middle of it, you are just gonna end up upset over something that really has nothing to do with you and is just someone's personal opinion that you have no control over.

I have to say, from reading this, deathbyhedonism has handled himself brilliantly throughout the entire thing, I am eager to read anything he writes now because of his level of empathy and understanding...what a nice guy. Not only that, but he said he has actively strived to improve his work which means that it will just get better and better and what a cool name even! Deathbyhedonism, which I could think of something as creative as that! But I would have been ready to scratch eyes out if it were me! (heh, not really but I would definitely have cried I think)

I hope he keeps going, I really don't see how writing about mist could be plaguerism, since it's a natural occurance. Does this mean no one is allowed to write about rain because there was a lot of it in the Matrix? Or night or the moon or love or sex or anything because someone else mentioned it? Its a bit silly.