Do you prefer shorter or longer chapters?

[Deadman]

I’ve noticed that a lot of my stories being posted here have much longer chapters than I normally write.

Usually my stuff is much shorter but also a lot more chapters.

Do you find people prefer the longer chapters or shorter ones?

[Desiderius Price]

Aw, the eternal debate on “size”

Shorter generally means a faster tempo, but you cover less.  Longer means you can get into more detail, but can be a slower read too.  Also, there’s the attention span of the reader to consider, and giving them natural “stopping points” to come back later. 

I’ve tried short chapters before (2K) and that was faster to write that story.  OTOH, I tend to go for 7-8k averages for the contemplative/serious writings.  However, if a chapter hits 10kwords, that’s when I’m looking to split (even if it goes “part A” and “part B”).

[Sessakag]

I prefer writing and reading long chapters.

I recently started dabbling in shorter chapters earlier in the year but my readers started asking for the longer chapters to return and since I have no self control, I’ve been slipping right back into the habit of long chapters.

That’s my biggest problem, I don’t know when to quit.

Most of my chapters average 5k, but quite a few chapters are upwards of 15k, I think the longest was 18k 😅 I’m shocked so many people are willing to read a chapter that long, but they do, and then ask for the next one to be just as long.

[Desiderius Price]

4 hours ago, Sessakag said:

Most of my chapters average 5k, but quite a few chapters are upwards of 15k, I think the longest was 18k 😅 I’m shocked so many people are willing to read a chapter that long, but they do, and then ask for the next one to be just as long.

Ages ago, I thought longer chapters were better.  So I took my potter fanfic, then around 108 chapters and 660+k, and during a rewrite condensed it down into 11 chapters, but the result was one of those chapters was around 109kwords!  Two others were 91k & 70kish.  That ... was … horrific.  Individual scenes get lost, run together, etc.  And I’m still detangling that mess!

[Deadman]

11 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

Ages ago, I thought longer chapters were better.  So I took my potter fanfic, then around 108 chapters and 660+k, and during a rewrite condensed it down into 11 chapters, but the result was one of those chapters was around 109kwords!  Two others were 91k & 70kish.  That ... was … horrific.  Individual scenes get lost, run together, etc.  And I’m still detangling that mess!

Well maybe the problem was how much you rewrote it from 108 chapters to 11. If you had instead separated it into 50 chapters, it could’ve been something people wouldn’t be intimidated by.

[Deadman]

16 hours ago, Sessakag said:

I prefer writing and reading long chapters.

I recently started dabbling in shorter chapters earlier in the year but my readers started asking for the longer chapters to return and since I have no self control, I’ve been slipping right back into the habit of long chapters.

That’s my biggest problem, I don’t know when to quit.

Most of my chapters average 5k, but quite a few chapters are upwards of 15k, I think the longest was 18k 😅 I’m shocked so many people are willing to read a chapter that long, but they do, and then ask for the next one to be just as long.

Funny, I went the opposite route it seems. I also tend to wait for me to figure out how the story is going to end for me to start writing.

[Desiderius Price]

3 hours ago, Deadman said:

Well maybe the problem was how much you rewrote it from 108 chapters to 11. If you had instead separated it into 50 chapters, it could’ve been something people wouldn’t be intimidated by.

Alas, we both kinda agree 109kwords (about the same length as JKR’s third NOVEL) is generally excessive for a single chapter? 

Current rewrite has 170 chapters where there used to be 44ish of those older 108, so it’s definitely way more detailed and enjoyable now, with 6-7k averages, and I’m having to mix the two versions as there were some good ideas in that previous rewrite.   So, 50 might’ve been better, but I agree the execution was dumb.  Hey, making mistakes is how we get better at writing, right?

[Sessakag]

16 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

Ages ago, I thought longer chapters were better.  So I took my potter fanfic, then around 108 chapters and 660+k, and during a rewrite condensed it down into 11 chapters, but the result was one of those chapters was around 109kwords!  Two others were 91k & 70kish.  That ... was … horrific.  Individual scenes get lost, run together, etc.  And I’m still detangling that mess!

Good Lord. I love long chapters but I think I’d be struggling with a 109k chapter. That is so awesome and so intimidating, lol.

[Sessakag]

5 hours ago, Deadman said:

Funny, I went the opposite route it seems. I also tend to wait for me to figure out how the story is going to end for me to start writing.

I envy you, lol. I get an idea and just start writing hoping I come with a ending later down the line. I’ve gotten a little more organized in the years of writing, but I still have that reckless, “let me just start all over the place” mentality that bites me later on.

[Desiderius Price]

3 hours ago, Sessakag said:

Good Lord. I love long chapters but I think I’d be struggling with a 109k chapter. That is so awesome and so intimidating, lol.

Extra line breaks had gotten lost, so no scene separators, thus 109k wall of text.  Know I’d occasionally get one determined reader here or there, but yeah, intimidating.  Even FF.net gave the hint, because they updated their word counter to max each chapter’s word count out at 65k (ie, they’d simply not count anything more to story’s total).  Thus, my first action when I started the current rewrite was to simply break those chapters in two (ie parts A & B), though I’ve now totally yanked them until I get the revision bit done (due to confusion with how their alert notifications worked) – maybe this decade?

[Sessakag]

3 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

Extra line breaks had gotten lost, so no scene separators, thus 109k wall of text.  Know I’d occasionally get one determined reader here or there, but yeah, intimidating.  Even FF.net gave the hint, because they updated their word counter to max each chapter’s word count out at 65k (ie, they’d simply not count anything more to story’s total).  Thus, my first action when I started the current rewrite was to simply break those chapters in two (ie parts A & B), though I’ve now totally yanked them until I get the revision bit done (due to confusion with how their alert notifications worked) – maybe this decade?

Hopefully this decade, I’m rooting for ya.

[Desiderius Price]

10 hours ago, Sessakag said:

Hopefully this decade, I’m rooting for ya.

Maybe… the remaining word count is quite high TBH.

To the original point, Thucycides and lots of early works didn’t have paragraphs/pages, those were mostly added in later.

[Deadman]

20 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

Alas, we both kinda agree 109kwords (about the same length as JKR’s third NOVEL) is generally excessive for a single chapter? 

Current rewrite has 170 chapters where there used to be 44ish of those older 108, so it’s definitely way more detailed and enjoyable now, with 6-7k averages, and I’m having to mix the two versions as there were some good ideas in that previous rewrite.   So, 50 might’ve been better, but I agree the execution was dumb.  Hey, making mistakes is how we get better at writing, right?

Totally get it. My first fic was over 100 chapters, and around 150k words total. Not counting the sequels which were shorter.

[Deadman]

18 hours ago, Sessakag said:

I envy you, lol. I get an idea and just start writing hoping I come with a ending later down the line. I’ve gotten a little more organized in the years of writing, but I still have that reckless, “let me just start all over the place” mentality that bites me later on.

I get it. When I first started writing I didn’t have any idea how I was going to end the story. My first story was done by the seat of my pants and ended up, as I mentioned just above, over 100 chapters and 150k words not counting the sequels which also weren’t planned. By the end of the trilogy (which has since become a quadrilogy… for now) I was writing with a plan in mind but nothing written down.

With the stuff that I’m posting here, it’s sort of a mix. I had one piece that’s currently up on the site which was intended to be a one shot that I wrote in a 48 hour time frame. Then I did some editing and adding, which lead to a second chapter and an idea for a third chapter but have decided not to write (for now). But I’ve also written stories that have a specific end point when I first started writing it. Also, I wrote a story a while ago with a specific ending but then ended up creating an alternate ending where the story could continue.

[Desiderius Price]

53 minutes ago, Deadman said:

I get it. When I first started writing I didn’t have any idea how I was going to end the story. My first story was done by the seat of my pants and ended up, as I mentioned just above, over 100 chapters and 150k words not counting the sequels which also weren’t planned. By the end of the trilogy (which has since become a quadrilogy… for now) I was writing with a plan in mind but nothing written down.

With the stuff that I’m posting here, it’s sort of a mix. I had one piece that’s currently up on the site which was intended to be a one shot that I wrote in a 48 hour time frame. Then I did some editing and adding, which lead to a second chapter and an idea for a third chapter but have decided not to write (for now). But I’ve also written stories that have a specific end point when I first started writing it. Also, I wrote a story a while ago with a specific ending but then ended up creating an alternate ending where the story could continue.

Cool.   Having stories that breed plot bunnies is how the adventure grows.  Half debating to simply post my Halloween story as the first chapter to a longer story, myself.

[Deadman]

10 minutes ago, Desiderius Price said:

Cool.   Having stories that breed plot bunnies is how the adventure grows.  Half debating to simply post my Halloween story as the first chapter to a longer story, myself.

Yeah, could be fun to get the feedback if you do. I’m planning on posting a single chapter of a story that I wrote that I wanted to be multi chapter but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Probably going to be writing a different story in the same fandom before I finish the one I’m thinking of.

[Desiderius Price]

11 hours ago, Deadman said:

Yeah, could be fun to get the feedback if you do. I’m planning on posting a single chapter of a story that I wrote that I wanted to be multi chapter but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Probably going to be writing a different story in the same fandom before I finish the one I’m thinking of.

One twist you can do, especially if you’ve gone down the rabbit hole of writing backstory character development fics, is to write it as an episodic serial.  Thus each chapter is an “episode”, with its own mini-plot contributing to the overarching development you’re after.  Characterization backstories, where I’m simply filling in their character(s) using the episodes to define it, are the most agreeable to this format.

[Deadman]

11 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

One twist you can do, especially if you’ve gone down the rabbit hole of writing backstory character development fics, is to write it as an episodic serial.  Thus each chapter is an “episode”, with its own mini-plot contributing to the overarching development you’re after.  Characterization backstories, where I’m simply filling in their character(s) using the episodes to define it, are the most agreeable to this format.

Totally get that although I try to stay in line with canon as much as possible. So I don’t have to worry too much about backstory.

I have a fic that I wrote the first two chapters of many years ago that is outlining an entire day per chapter. One chapter is 60 pages long and almost 20k words.

[Desiderius Price]

29 minutes ago, Deadman said:

Totally get that although I try to stay in line with canon as much as possible. So I don’t have to worry too much about backstory.

I have a fic that I wrote the first two chapters of many years ago that is outlining an entire day per chapter. One chapter is 60 pages long and almost 20k words.

Aside from the potter story, the rest of stories are original works.  Thus, backstory episodes help a lot with some characters and setup to that universe as a whole.  Funny enough, having delved into originals helped when I returned to the potter story, I accidentally made some well rounded characters, one of whom is now getting regular attention because it offered a good vantage point I didn’t have before.

[Deadman]

25 minutes ago, Desiderius Price said:

Aside from the potter story, the rest of stories are original works.  Thus, backstory episodes help a lot with some characters and setup to that universe as a whole.  Funny enough, having delved into originals helped when I returned to the potter story, I accidentally made some well rounded characters, one of whom is now getting regular attention because it offered a good vantage point I didn’t have before.

Cool. I did something similar. I started with a long fanfic and that allowed me to realize how I was going to get into original work. I went away from fanfic for several years to write original stuff. Now I’ve come back to fanfic and it’s helped me see what I’m doing and understand my stories better.

I thought you were talking about OCs in fanfic. Personally not a big fan of OCs but I get that, my main issue is when you recreate an OC that’s basically a carbon copy of the fandom main character. Lots of long stories get written with OCs as their main characters. Most of my stories were focused on fandom characters with smaller characters being OCs if necessary.

[Desiderius Price]

2 hours ago, Deadman said:

I thought you were talking about OCs in fanfic. Personally not a big fan of OCs but I get that, my main issue is when you recreate an OC that’s basically a carbon copy of the fandom main character. Lots of long stories get written with OCs as their main characters. Most of my stories were focused on fandom characters with smaller characters being OCs if necessary.

The *other* trap with an OC is the Mary/Gary sue phenomenon.  (See the “Ensign Sue Must Die” web comic...)

Nah, wrote mine with issues so he’d foil Harry in trying to assist Oliver Wood in teaching first year flying lessons (you know, have Harry focus on one person instead of helping with the entire class).  This OC loitered because it was useful for showing Harry caring and helping somebody having trouble adjusting to Hogwarts.  Subsequently, became useful to show the differing levels of concern teachers had when a student goes missing (all-hands-on-deck if it’s Harry, whereas a shy first year, the assumption is “ran away” when the truth was the opposite).  And this OC is now a useful observer to show the events happening within the castle when Harry’s attendance is spotty at best.  Overall, the story is definitely better with this addition, even if it’s blowing up my word counts (around a 7:1 ratio compared to the previous version).

But I digress...

[Sessakag]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:55 PM, Deadman said:

I get it. When I first started writing I didn’t have any idea how I was going to end the story. My first story was done by the seat of my pants and ended up, as I mentioned just above, over 100 chapters and 150k words not counting the sequels which also weren’t planned. By the end of the trilogy (which has since become a quadrilogy… for now) I was writing with a plan in mind but nothing written down.

With the stuff that I’m posting here, it’s sort of a mix. I had one piece that’s currently up on the site which was intended to be a one shot that I wrote in a 48 hour time frame. Then I did some editing and adding, which lead to a second chapter and an idea for a third chapter but have decided not to write (for now). But I’ve also written stories that have a specific end point when I first started writing it. Also, I wrote a story a while ago with a specific ending but then ended up creating an alternate ending where the story could continue.

I know that game, lol. I used to think it was a joke when writers would say that a story took on a life of its own, its so true.

My Naruto fic Monster has truly become a monster. It was one of the few stories I knew the ending to but had to figure out a beginning, but I got soooo lost in the beginning and middle that it’s become this 400,000 word smut collection (mostly) It was intended to be a 20 chapter smut/horror story, laying heavy on the psychological horror aspect but I just had so many ideas for this and that, and it just turned into idk wtf. I’m slowly getting back to its roots, lol, but now that it’s gotten so huge, I’ve had no choice but to plan for two more parts after. I’ve put my foot down on going farther than a trilogy though, otherwise it’d never end and I’ve got other stories I need to work on.

 

[Sessakag]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:05 PM, Deadman said:

Yeah, could be fun to get the feedback if you do. I’m planning on posting a single chapter of a story that I wrote that I wanted to be multi chapter but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Probably going to be writing a different story in the same fandom before I finish the one I’m thinking of.

 

On 12/8/2022 at 4:51 PM, Desiderius Price said:

Cool.   Having stories that breed plot bunnies is how the adventure grows.  Half debating to simply post my Halloween story as the first chapter to a longer story, myself.

I say go for it. I’m participating in the nh fair and wrote a one-shot of a story I plan on writing later, there was huge support for it and the feedback I got was incredibly helpful in shaping my outline for it. I think it’s a great opportunity to get a pulse on what kind of interest it’ll generate and you might get some really unique ideas from your readers. Well worth a trial run.

[Desiderius Price]

9 hours ago, Sessakag said:

I know that game, lol. I used to think it was a joke when writers would say that a story took on a life of its own, its so true.

My Naruto fic Monster has truly become a monster. It was one of the few stories I knew the ending to but had to figure out a beginning, but I got soooo lost in the beginning and middle that it’s become this 400,000 word smut collection (mostly) It was intended to be a 20 chapter smut/horror story, laying heavy on the psychological horror aspect but I just had so many ideas for this and that, and it just turned into idk wtf. I’m slowly getting back to its roots, lol, but now that it’s gotten so huge, I’ve had no choice but to plan for two more parts after. I’ve put my foot down on going farther than a trilogy though, otherwise it’d never end and I’ve got other stories I need to work on.

They say debut novels for publishing should be 100k or less… that’s a short story! 

I had a similar issue with wanting to write the smut while also wanting to have a plot-centric story when I returned to my potter story.  I’ve ended up making two versions… one I consider “explicit” and the other “cleaner”, so think Unrated vs R MPAA movie ratings.  This has been a success IMO, because I’ve also written a bit of software that lets me write the two versions in the same file, where I annotate what’s “clean” and what’s “explicit” – it filters it out and I post the results.  Thus certain descriptions, scenes, themes, and characters (& implications) are in that explicit side only.  Of course, this has now resulted in the explicit side being about three times the size of the clean…