Hiccup the Overlord discussion thread

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

That works (both the minion amd ariel thing), but i just had an idea i want to run by you. What if the netherghuls WERE the minion hive 'queens'?. As in part of the ressurection imbunes them with minion qualities to ensure loyalty and give them more power.

They could have to create the minions as extensions of themselves and we could give them minionish qualities or make the minions behave like lesser copies of them. We've got a fire-girl, a strong-girl and a death-girl that would go well with thr greens, and the icy one could be blues before they learned to heal. Plua it helps keep the castle from getting crowded to quickly.

Huh… that had not occurred to me… I admit my vague plan for the queen Minions had been for them to be background characters, there and named, but not affecting the story much…

 

Changing the topic, but an idea for how Hiccup could dispatch the Red Death and later Drago’s Bewilderbeast…

What if the sorceresses turned him into one of the ‘alpha’ dragons, possibly a Screaming Death?

[Strange_idea]

I think disoatching the red death should be similar, it was a very good moment of how smart he was and his bond with toothless. Plus if astrid just got her wings, it could be used to introduce her to flying.

Though for drago's bewliderbeast migjt i suggest not truning him into a dragon, but a gigantic dragon-person in full armour to fight it hand-to hand

Also, are we doing both movies at once or one at a time?

 

8 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

Huh… that had not occurred to me… I admit my vague plan for the queen Minions had been for them to be background characters, there and named, but not affecting the story much…

This was my understanding too, but i don't like wasting characters. We can still have them be at odds with tbe actual mistresses though, that'd be funny.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Strange_idea

[Jwsponky]

19 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

I think disoatching the red death should be similar, it was a very good moment of how smart he was and his bond with toothless. Pkua if astrid just got her wings, it coupd be used to introduce her to flying.

Though for drago's bewliderbeast migjt i suggest not truning him into a dragon, but a gigantic dragon-person in full armour to fight it hand-to hand

Also, are we doing both movies at once or one at a time?

I admit I’m unsure, part of me wishes for Hiccup to take them one at a time, possibly felling them with lithobolos (literally meaning ‘Stone thrower’ in Greek),  a model of ballista that launched 100 pound boulders, though Hiccup’s would used cast balls of metal, with the shells Hiccup uses against the alpha dragons being filled with impact explosives, and possibly pointed for better penetration as opposed to perfectly round like the solid metal ‘anti fortification’ shells, blowing many bloody holes in said dragons’ hide to send them into shock

However…

Another part of me wishes for Hiccup to go ‘full gambit mode’, tricking Drago into showing up with his Bewilderbeast and Viggo with his Shellfire and their respective armies at Dragon Island intending to take out the weakened victor of the resulting three way battle, with the Screaming Death and the Submaripper from ‘Dire Straits’ and ‘Shellshocked’ showing up, sending the plan into mild disarray, and maybe the Berserker Bewilderbeast and Valka’s as well as his flock, leaving the plan in chaos...

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

Okay, okay. Taking it both movies are happening eitber at once or one after the other.

This seems like a good opportunity for him to use that tactic, so i like the idea.

So, what if he does do the three-way fight trick, but valka showing up is something he didn't see coming, so while it does sort of work he has to adapt and use the stone-thrower. Plus it'd be a good excuse to bring out his eztra troops like eliza to help defend the town. Though not too many, don't want to spook him.

 

Do you mean take out red death and the bewilderbeast with the stone thrower?

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Okay, okay. Taking it both movies are happening eitber at once or one after the other.

This seems like a good opportunity for him to use that tactic, so i like the idea.

So, what if he does do the three-way fight trick, but valka showing up is something he didn't see coming, so while it does sort of work he has to adapt and use the stone-thrower. Plus it'd be a good excuse to bring out his eztra troops like eliza to help defend the town. Though not too many, don't want to spook him.

 

Do you mean take out red death and the bewilderbeast with the stone thrower?

As I said am unsure whether to have the movies’ events take place one at a time or simultaneously…

 

Technically the plan was for Hiccup to take out which alphas with MANY stone throwers, blowing enough gaping wounds it their hides to send them into shock…

 

To attempt to explain the ‘ gambit’ idea a bit better...

1. The Red Death is at Dragon Island because she lives there
2. Drago’s forces show up because Hiccup uses the Dragon Hunters to feed him tales about Hiccup amassing a dragon army, just pointing him at Dragon Island instead of the Shipyard as the army’s location
3. The Dragon Hunters are there either because Hiccup hired them or told them tales of untapped hunting grounds, likely planning this to be the moment he double crosses Johan and the Grimborns

With Hiccup intending to keep his forces back and slay which ever alpha survives the fight, but things begin to go awry when…

4. A Submarriper, having noticed Viggo’s Shellfire passhing through its territory while following the Hunter fleet, shows up wanting to brawl with its natural enemy
5. The Screaming Death shows up, his curiosity aroused since I would assume the reaction of any ‘unaffiliated’ dragons to multiple alphas and their flocks heading for the territory of another alpha would be “FLEE FOR YOUR SCALY LIVES!”
6. Valka’s Bewilderbeast and his flock followed Drago there, deciding that whatever he’s after they probably shouldn’t let him have it
7. The Berserker Bewilderbeast shows up, drawn by the presence of two males of her species, and gets pulled into the brawl as well

[Strange_idea]

That works nicely. Though i would again suggest having valka appear once or twice vecorw this as this is not a good time to introduce her since the focus is so split.

She doesn't have to realise he's the ones the rumours are about, it just be good to have her meet the young man beforehand i think

Other than that it sounds really good.

[Jwsponky]

9 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

That works nicely. Though i would again suggest having valka appear once or twice vecorw this as this is not a good time to introduce her since the focus is so split.

She doesn't have to realise he's the ones the rumours are about, it just be good to have her meet the young man beforehand i think

Other than that it sounds really good.

As I said i’m unsure which idea I’ll use, though I must admit the mass chaos of the 7 way giant dragon brawl, in addition to the fight between Drago’s forces (possibly) allied with Hunters, Valka’s Bewilderbeast’s flock, and dragons following the Screaming Death, and any unaffiliated dragons summoned by the female Bewilderbeast if she used the distress call from ‘The King of Dragons’, with Hiccup’s forces waiting in the wings for the signal to attack, would be rather hard to write… 

dang fun to watch though had the show/movies pulled off such a stunt…

 

I don’t know if Valka would hear the rumors Hiccup had allowed to reach Drago though, or if it would be more along the lines of she noticed Drago had set off on the war path, in the general direction of Berk no less, and went “… That can’t be good.”

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

If you need help, I'll happily give it to you. I think i know or xan find some stories to use as references 

Sorry about being so stubborn on the valka thibg. I just like character developmemt and use of literary devices.

[Strange_idea]

Sorry. I was going by what you said earlier about her reason to first attack hiccup.

[Strange_idea]

I feel there should be at least some interaction and connection between them if she's going to 'connect' with him over stoik's death. If hiccup wasn't going to comfort and old friend it would be a bot weird for him to be alone with her in the aftermath

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

If you need help, I'll happily give it to you. I think i know or xan find some stories to use as references 

Sorry about being so stubborn on the valka thibg. I just like character developmemt and use of literary devices.

Eh, is no problem, though I feel compelled to note that note all ideas discussed here are guaranteed to show up in the final story

 

Though if you know a story with a seven way giant monster battle with a battle between four air forces, one of them with ground support via anti air fire, occurring simultaneously, I would be glad to hear tell of it

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

I feel there should be at least some interaction and connection between them if she's going to 'connect' with him over stoik's death. If hiccup wasn't going to comfort and old friend it would be a bot weird for him to be alone with her in the aftermath

Eh, not necessarily weird given that he is her son she hasn't seen since he was a baby, I can't speak from experience being a bachelor, but that seems the kind of person a grieving widow would keep close...

[Jwsponky]

6 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Sorry. I was going by what you said earlier about her reason to first attack hiccup.

I admit I don't recall ever discussing a scenario where Valka attacks Hiccup...

[Strange_idea]

Not exactly, though i do know of several similarly complex battle scenes and can probably find even better examples.

 

1 minute ago, Jwsponky said:

I admit I don't recall ever discussing a scenario where Valka attacks Hiccup...

My understanding was that one version of her introduction was to come followijg rumours of an ally or major player to the dragon hunters or the oveflord and try to premptively defend her dragons.

[Strange_idea]

10 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

Eh, not necessarily weird given that he is her son she hasn't seen since he was a baby, I can't speak from experience being a bachelor, but that seems the kind of person a grieving widow would keep close...

While i understand that she probably wouldn't recognise him due to.not having seen him since he was a baby and if she didn't it lets us show her reaction, which can lead to the mother orgy we discussed.

Plus, them not recognising each other makes them sleeping together more beleivable. You may recall your suggestion that hiccup come to terks with it because he doesn't think of her as his mother, but it wouldn't work tgr other way around and it works better as a back justification and reason to go again rather than a reason to seduce her the firsy time.

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Not exactly, though i do know of several similarly complex battle scenes and can probably find even better examples.

 

My understanding was that one version of her introduction was to come followijg rumours of an ally or major player to the dragon hunters or the oveflord and try to premptively defend her dragons.

I admit I don’t recall such an idea, my plan for her introduction, if I were to keep the movies’ events separate, had been for Hiccup to hear rumors of Drago, and track him to the Dragon Sanctuary just as he’s attacking it, and helping to fend Drago off, but not before Valka’s Bewilderbeast is slain by Drago’s, or Hiccup doesn’t find Drago until he has already attacked the Sanctuary, with Valak being kept prisoner as a trophy.

 

And now I’m randomly struck by the idea of this story featuring a female Drago… Draga maybe?..

[Strange_idea]

Ia dragur the same as drago? Because you already said they would be female if so.

If you spend some time with them bonding after that and not recognising each other while they try to either heal their wounds or wait to be picked up that works well.

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

While i understand that she probably wouldn't recognise him due to.not having seen him since he was a baby and if she didn't it lets us show her reaction, which can lead to the mother orgy we discussed.

Plus, them not recognising each other makes them sleeping together more beleivable. You may recall your suggestion that hiccup come to terks with it because he doesn't think of her as his mother, but it wouldn't work tgr other way around and it works better as a back justification and reason to go again rather than a reason to seduce her the firsy time.

Well, she did recognize him in the second film by a tiny scar on his chin, and in this story he has the much more identifying trait of literally glowing green eyes…

Do you recall my idea of Cloudjumper more or less tricking them into doing it, perhaps with some prior mead/ale consumption on Valka’s part?

 

[Strange_idea]

I do. Hmmm... maybe she doesn't tell hiccup? We can still have the guilt afterwards which the aorceresses 'help' with. And his reaction would be funny.

Sorry. The cloudjumper thing was new, and while i do like the idea it slipped my mind a little.

Though to be fair, depending on how young he was when she lost him he may not have had glowing green eyes. And theres reasons for not having the scar.

How about a compromise? She thinks he MAY be her son, but isn't sure, which makes it easier forn cloudjumper

[Strange_idea]

Actually, we can take it even further. Cloudjumper convinces her it isn't him. She merely makes out with him the first time though. She bonds with him on the island, the when her hsuband dies asks him to stay with her completely sober and asks for a 'favour'. The sorceresses tell her that yes she is his son ans she retreats to deal with it, only for maleficent and idunna to help her get over it by turning her into a massive dragon-woman. Remember, the 'valka the vast' idea?

[Jwsponky]

13 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Actually, we can take it even further. Cloudjumper convinces her it isn't him. She merely makes out with him the first time though. She bonds with him on the island, the when her hsuband dies asks him to stay with her completely sober and asks for a 'favour'. The sorceresses tell her that yes she is his son ans she retreats to deal with it, only for maleficent and idunna to help her get over it by turning her into a massive dragon-woman. Remember, the 'valka the vast' idea?

This idea has merit, and I do recall it

 

Though I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned it or not, but by the time I intend for Hiccup and Valka to meet, Stoick has already died in the Empire’s conquest of the Archipelago, with Hiccup merely being the one to break the news...

[Strange_idea]

You did not. I thought he was going to die in the big battle.

Though an idea struck me. First of all, did you like the 'search for toothless' idea?

[Jwsponky]

2 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

You did not. I thought he was going to die in the big battle.

Though an idea struck me. First of all, did you like the 'search for toothless' idea?

Admittedly kind of neutral on it, but proceed with the idea ye mentioned

[Strange_idea]

Okay, while this would work well with missing toothless i think it would work well without it too.

Well, since hiccup is something of an outsoder to the cobflict, what if he foumd valka's sanctuary before meeting the vikings. He'd help her and bond with her either over dragon-taming or over her approval for his relationship with toothless (depwndong on whether you go search for toothless or not). Due to her grief she's reluctant to talk abput her past, so hiccup doesn't realise she's his mother.

Not sure if she knows Stoik is dead, but if she does she's holding of on grieving until it's all over.

Anyway hiccup uses her sanctuary as a base, with her blessing. He visits the viking land but doesn't stay there to say.... sleep, since he and they don't k ow he's part of the tribe, let alone the heir.

She listens to him talk about what's going on and helps him plan and understand the culture, and mainly runs the investigations and intervention stuff in the dragon side of things due to being better at working with them and worse at human interaction. They meet up to compare notes.

During this time, cloudjumper's respect for him grows and she starts schemeing to help her mistress 'claim him', possibly with toothless smugly telling her it will be the other way around.

He brings allies he makes/Rescues there including toothless (if he rescues her, though it works even if she doesn't) and astrid. Eventually it turns out that dragur is escalating things from the first movie so that he can carry out his plan from the second, so they do the gambit plan.

In the aftermath, they sleep together.

Optionally, valka is kidnapped while scouting in dragon lands and he has to rescue her, during which time he learna of dragur's greater involvement.

[Strange_idea]

During this time he also studiea dragons (possibly while either missing toothless or her 'subtly' vying for his attention, such as providing two forms for an anatomy sketch) amd valka teaches him about dragon riding.