Hiccup the Overlord discussion thread

[Jwsponky]

Huh… kind of looks like Saluk’s weapons in ‘Aladdin and the King of Thieves’

[Strange_idea]

like this kinda, but no technology

https://www.slashgear.com/wolverine-claw-glove-is-activated-by-flexing-muscles-27385469/

[Strange_idea]

yeah, i was going to use him as an example, but it lets him keep his hand visible so i thought, need a better example.

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

yeah, i was going to use him as an example, but it lets him keep his hand visible so i thought, need a better example.

A fair point… and going slightly off topic, but I read a bit more on the katars and patas, and apparently Indian warriors would go out into the jungle with one of those on both arms to hunt tigers… I’m not sure if that is awesome, insane, or an unhealthy combination of both...

[Strange_idea]

coming of age ceremonies often were, and well, wrriors are all about risk and bravery. plus, india has a bunch of methods or dealing with tigers. plus, tiger-hunting was a big part of the culture and economy

 

still both though

[Strange_idea]

maybe orcs could do something similar, and hiccup is halfway through criticising the idea when he thinks to ask if the ‘overlord’ quest was one for himself. the orcs defend the tradition though

[Jwsponky]

Just now, Strange_idea said:

coming of age ceremonies often were, and well, wrriors are all about risk and bravery. plus, india has a bunch of methods or dealing with tigers. plus, tiger-hunting was a big part of the culture and economy

 

still both though

Fair point again, and another thought about the Hiccup Aza showdown, what if Hiccup had assumed the Aza’s gauntlet weapon was a prosthetic, mainly because he hadn’t encountered such a weapon before, and was suprised when she took it off?

 

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

maybe orcs could do something similar, and hiccup is halfway through criticising the idea when he thinks to ask if the ‘overlord’ quest was one for himself. the orcs defend the tradition though

That is an idea, though what beast could they hunt?.. 

And now i’m struck by the idea of what if Hiccup conquering Spree, Heaven’s Peak, Evernight Forest, Dol Gubad, the Golden Hills, and Ruboria was more or less an accident or after thought, his main goal at that point being recovering the family heirlooms the former heroes had pilfered?

[Strange_idea]

2 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

And now i’m struck by the idea of what if Hiccup conquering Spree, Heaven’s Peak, Evernight Forest, Dol Gubad, the Golden Hills, and Ruboria was more or less an accident or after thought, his main goal at that point being recovering the family heirlooms the former heroes had pilfered?

I’m assuming this is mostly just an excuse the sorceresses give him? it works though, and isn;t so urgent we can;t make detour chapters. nice! though we would need treasures for him to retrieve, unless he’s just stealing their treasures obliviously

 

2 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

Fair point again, and another thought about the Hiccup Aza showdown, what if Hiccup had assumed the Aza’s gauntlet weapon was a prosthetic, mainly because he hadn’t encountered such a weapon before, and was suprised when she took it off?

does he have his pegleg yet? probably not… so okay. nice not to the original. he could try to ‘disarm’ it via cutting it off only for the armour to be to good mid fight and comment he’s glad it didn’t work after he finds out.

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

I’m assuming this is mostly just an excuse the sorceresses give him? it works though, and isn;t so urgent we can;t make detour chapters. nice! though we would need treasures for him to retrieve, unless he’s just stealing their treasures obliviously

 

does he have his pegleg yet? probably not… so okay. nice not to the original. he could try to ‘disarm’ it via cutting it off only for the armour to be to good mid fight and comment he’s glad it didn’t work after he finds out.

I admit when I said ‘family heirlooms’ i had meant the health, mana, and Minion pillars as well as possibly the smelters, but the idea of the heroes actually taking little/nothing and the sorceresses bending the truth or out right lying so Hiccup would just loot stuff has merit

A good idea, though Hiccup definitely wouldn’t have his peg leg at this point, and not sure if he’ll get it at all, given the different circumstances of the fight with the Red Death

[Strange_idea]

how about both? they are schemers, so while they DID take the overlord stuff, they make up something hiccup is more likely to understand and make them seem like the better party for taking back stolen property instead of just power.

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

how about both? they are schemers, so while they DID take the overlord stuff, they make up something hiccup is more likely to understand and make them seem like the better party for taking back stolen property instead of just power.

That would work, perhaps exaggerating the list of stolen items to induce Hiccup to the aforementioned looting...

[Strange_idea]

plus it helps make later character growth believable and gives him a reason to make his own decisions more.

 

I’m trying to think of some growth for ursula, mim and grimhilde but having trouble

[Jwsponky]

1 minute ago, Strange_idea said:

plus it helps make later character growth believable and gives him a reason to make his own decisions more.

 

I’m trying to think of some growth for ursula, mim and grimhilde but having trouble

I admit now that I think about it I’m drawing a blank on that score myself… best I can come up with at the moment, is when Hiccup goes through the merfolk lands he encounters Ursula’s aged sister Morgana and Ursula is glad to know she is still alive, likely asking Hiccup to bring her back to the Tower so the Heart might restore her back to her prime... which would likely be a one time only deal as opposed to how Gothel used Rapunzel’s hair

[Strange_idea]

23 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

I admit now that I think about it I’m drawing a blank on that score myself… best I can come up with at the moment, is when Hiccup goes through the merfolk lands he encounters Ursula’s aged sister Morgana and Ursula is glad to know she is still alive, likely asking Hiccup to bring her back to the Tower so the Heart might restore her back to her prime... which would likely be a one time only deal as opposed to how Gothel used Rapunzel’s hair

hmmm. that, and ariels righteous bitterness at being lied to could force her to re-evaluate her life.

 

and it doesn’t have to be one-time. remember the spell rapunzel, aurora, fay and snow were working on to restore youth and vitality?

[Strange_idea]

Grimhilde gets taken down a peg by failing to control snow, and could be maid snow’s handmaiden after the attempt to control ‘corrupt’ snow fails.

mim….. i don;t know if she can learn anything

[Strange_idea]

I see Grimhilde as less redeemable

just realised you meant ‘only has to be cast once’ not ‘only can be cast once’

[Jwsponky]

3 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

hmmm. that, and ariels righteous bitterness at being lied to could force her to re-evaluate her life.

 

and it doesn’t have to be one-time. remember the spell rapunzel, aurora, fay and snow were working on to restore youth and vitality?

That is a possibility, though I admit the idea of it being a one time per person thing was to avoid the possibility of immortality…

3 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

Grimhilde gets taken down a peg by failing to control snow, and could be maid snow’s handmaiden after the attempt to control ‘corrupt’ snow fails.

mim….. i don;t know if she can learn anything

Now I’m struck by the idea of Grimhilde indulging in a bit of last second sabotage when Hiccup and the various light sorceresses were charging the Castle Heart, durning both it and the sorceresses, including Snow, to dark magic…

 

And now I’m struck by the idea of Snow stealing Fay’s line of “You’re evil, I’m evil, what’s there to talk about? Get over here.”

[Strange_idea]

16 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

That is a possibility, though I admit the idea of it being a one time per person thing was to avoid the possibility of immortality…

see part of the reason for the spell was that this was a bit of an immprtality thing, but it was EARNED, rather than random chance or cheap accomplishment. though you could just make it very long life. I figured it made sense given the setting pieces and already outliving he canon overlord.

 

16 minutes ago, Jwsponky said:

Now I’m struck by the idea of Grimhilde indulging in a bit of last second sabotage when Hiccup and the various light sorceresses were charging the Castle Heart, durning both it and the sorceresses, including Snow, to dark magic…

 

And now I’m struck by the idea of Snow stealing Fay’s line of “You’re evil, I’m evil, what’s there to talk about? Get over here.”

okay, while i see where you are going with this, this does undo QUITE a lot of character growth and devlopment.

however, i do have a possible compromise.

remember the rough corrupt snow timeline i suggested? what is this sabotage was with the ORIGINAL spell, the one that caused the corruption, and snow took it all on herself. snow almost goes full evil by the end (letting her use the line, which is what clues hiccup in that’s something’s messing with her head since she doesn;t think hiccup’s evil and has good points about it) but does manage to use the corruption to create the combined dark/light magic crystal and cure herself. Grimhilde is then made to pay.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Strange_idea

[Jwsponky]

16 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

see part of the reason for the spell was that this was a bit of an immprtality thing, but it was EARNED, rather than random chance or cheap accomplishment. though you could just make it very long life. I figured it made sense given the setting pieces and already outliving he canon overlord.

 

okay, while i see where you are going with this, this does undo QUITE a lot of character growth and devlopment.

however, i do have a possible compromise.

remember the rough corrupt snow timeline i suggested? what is this sabotage was with the ORIGINAL spell, the one that caused the corruption, and snow took it all on herself. snow almost goes full evil by the end (letting her use the line, which is what clues hiccup in that’s something’s messing with her head since she doesn;t think hiccup’s evil and has good points about it) but does manage to use the corruption to create the combined dark/light magic crystal and cure herself. Grimhilde is then made to pay.

These are possibilities, and I admit I wasn’t sure if the newly corrupted sorceresses would be justifiably mad at Grimhilde, or if they’d come to the same conclusion as Fay in the game ‘Evil/darkness feels good!’ and potentially thank her…

Idle thought about the idle thought of the Tower Heart and Shards giving the Vikings the ability to turn into dragons like the dragons could turn into Vikings…

What if that ability was given to every Viking, except Hiccup, much to his annoyance?

[Strange_idea]

To clarify, after everyone is cured, it’s mostly the disney girls and hiccup who are mad at her, and maybe maleficent.

 

That would be funny, and like in ‘gift of the night fury’ toothless playfully bur sternly reminds him that she’s his wings. you could have a scene later in the next storyline that toothless has to trust someone else to fly him and only lets astrid do it.

 Though i imagine only his viking commanders would get the power.

[Jwsponky]

3 hours ago, Strange_idea said:

To clarify, after everyone is cured, it’s mostly the disney girls and hiccup who are mad at her, and maybe maleficent.

 

That would be funny, and like in ‘gift of the night fury’ toothless playfully bur sternly reminds him that she’s his wings. you could have a scene later in the next storyline that toothless has to trust someone else to fly him and only lets astrid do it.

 Though i imagine only his viking commanders would get the power.

Perhaps, though I admit a part of me is unsure if Hiccup will be a dragon rider in this story, possibly with the sorceresses ‘strongly suggesting’ he keeps his feet on the ground

 

Though now I’m struck by an idea for a scene in the prologue after Hiccup gives himself wings, and Toothless, having assumed he meant dragon wings, teases him about his “little bird wings”

Edited June 14, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

That would be hilarious.

While i can see him mostly being on the ground, flying was a big part of their bond.

So what if, inaread of being a normal dragon rider, at first toothless picked him up like a jetpack, or after groqing huge from defearing red death like we dicussed THEN she carried him.

Bonus idea, in addition to the dragon-shapeshifting thing, valka could teach him how to ride toothless. That way it's both an upgrade, a bonding moment and a step towards being himself rather than just who he's told to be. It could be the big upgrade.of the timeskip

[Jwsponky]

22 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

That would be hilarious.

While i can see him mostly being on the ground, flying was a big part of their bond.

So what if, inaread of being a normal dragon rider, at first toothless picked him up like a jetpack, or after groqing huge from defearing red death like we dicussed THEN she carried him.

Bonus idea, in addition to the dragon-shapeshifting thing, valka could teach him how to ride toothless. That way it's both an upgrade, a bonding moment and a step towards being himself rather than just who he's told to be. It could be the big upgrade.of the timeskip

The idea has merit

Been struck by an idea that I admit I likely won’t use about when Hiccup and Toothless could meet…

What if instead of meeting as young children during the prologue, they didn’t encounter each other until after the events of the first game and Raising Hell, when Hiccup escapes from the Abyss and kills the Red Death, with Toothless being the closet thing to a second in command in the Red Death’s hierarchy of “Bring me food or be food!’ by virtue of being a Night Fury?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jwsponky

[Strange_idea]

While I understand where you are going with this I feel this is a weaker direction as it takes away from hiccup and toothless relationship and bond and removes some of the character growths we suggesyed. Also we'd need to find a new 'first time' and he'd probably habe a stronger connection to that girl than toothless, which is a bit off. It would also make hiccup less recognisable as hiccup in his early overlord days and more of a hiccup-in name only.

 

However, i can suggest a way to work that in. What if, during the events of raising hell, hiccup refused to risk his wife in hell akd asked her to rule for him while he was gone.

You know i can hadle myself.

That's why I'm asking you.

However hades tricks her into flying off to investigate something and she winds up being captures and brainwashed by the red death into being the second in command. That way the bit after rasing hell could be both hiccup taking a break from being overlord AND trying to find his wife.

[Jwsponky]

45 minutes ago, Strange_idea said:

While I understand where you are going with this I feel this is a weaker direction as it takes away from hiccup and toothless relationship and bond and removes some of the character growths we suggesyed. Also we'd need to find a new 'first time' and he'd probably habe a stronger connection to that girl than toothless, which is a bit off. It would also make hiccup less recognisable as hiccup in his early overlord days and more of a hiccup-in name only.

 

However, i can suggest a way to work that in. What if, during the events of raising hell, hiccup refused to risk his wife in hell akd asked her to rule for him while he was gone.

You know i can hadle myself.

That's why I'm asking you.

However hades tricks her into flying off to investigate something and she winds up being captures and brainwashed by the red death into being the second in command. That way the bit after rasing hell could be both hiccup taking a break from being overlord AND trying to find his wife.

That is a possibility, though as I said I’m unlikely to use the idea... though it does give him less reason to sympathise with dragons, and as such be okay with using them as attack beasts…

Another unlikely to be used idea occurs to me though… What if, since the Minions are all female and built like Marvel’s She Hulk, Hiccup’s first time was just with one or more of the Minions, who would be acting under the sorceresses’ order to ‘train’ Hiccup?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Jwsponky