Leaving hints and clues

[sweetmamajama]

So I’ve been thinking, what are some of the good ways to leave hints in a mystery? I like being subtle, but how subtle is too subtle? What if the audience doesn't seem to notice or even search for clues? Should I let them know that there is a hint and they can look for it if they want to find out “who done it”? Or should I just leave them to figure it out by themselves or just miss everything and only see the things in hindsight? Isn't it the point of leaving clues that a reader can figure shit out by themselves? That’s certainly the fun of it, at least for me.

So what do you think? Any advice/suggestions?

 

[Tcr]

Okay, lot of questions here...  Let's get cracked <breaks finger while cracking>.  Damn, been a bit…

Personally, I like the subtle hints peppered throughout.  When they all come back around at the end and you can look back and go, wait a second!"  When reading, that's part of the fun.  As for too subtle, I think everyone has a different interpretation of subtle and how much or little is required.

While I'm sure I'll have tomatoes thrown, there are some people who don't read for the hints.   Personally speaking, I don't always.  (Put down the pitchforks!)  I know people who read mysteries just because they like the author...  And others will actively try to solve it before the character does...  (One where I used to work would be reading a James Patterson with a notebook next to her, taking notes...)

On a personal level, again, I can only say that I prefer not knowing a clue and solving or being surprised at the end...  Like you, that's part of the fun.  Hints are good (although I probably wouldn't have figured things out on The Divine Hand without a little prodding...  Hopefully that comes around a little more...)

All that incoherent rambling aside, best advice I can give, write what you want to read.  If you like having hints strewn throughout, go for it.  If you do, someone else will too.

[Desiderius Price]

You can toy with the reader further by adding in some red herrings, misleading the characters and readers to the wrong conclusion, at least for a while.

As to the level of hints, you can pepper both subtle and more obvious, as desired, as some readers will appreciate them, others, well, they’d gloss over them and be in for a bigger surprise.

[sweetmamajama]

10 minutes ago, Tcr said:

Okay, lot of questions here...  Let's get cracked <breaks finger while cracking>.  Damn, been a bit…

Personally, I like the subtle hints peppered throughout.  When they all come back around at the end and you can look back and go, wait a second!"  When reading, that's part of the fun.  As for too subtle, I think everyone has a different interpretation of subtle and how much or little is required.

While I'm sure I'll have tomatoes thrown, there are some people who don't read for the hints.   Personally speaking, I don't always.  (Put down the pitchforks!)  I know people who read mysteries just because they like the author...  And others will actively try to solve it before the character does...  (One where I used to work would be reading a James Patterson with a notebook next to her, taking notes...)

On a personal level, again, I can only say that I prefer not knowing a clue and solving or being surprised at the end...  Like you, that's part of the fun.  Hints are good (although I probably wouldn't have figured things out on The Divine Hand without a little prodding...  Hopefully that comes around a little more...)

All that incoherent rambling aside, best advice I can give, write what you want to read.  If you like having hints strewn throughout, go for it.  If you do, someone else will too.

I don't always actively search for hints ether. Sometimes you just get lost in the story and you forget. Sometimes you don't even know there's a mystery going on. It depends.

But you didn't answer my question! Should I let the readers know that there's a hint or not?

[sweetmamajama]

2 minutes ago, Desiderius Price said:

You can toy with the reader further by adding in some red herrings, misleading the characters and readers to the wrong conclusion, at least for a while.

As to the level of hints, you can pepper both subtle and more obvious, as desired, as some readers will appreciate them, others, well, they’d gloss over them and be in for a bigger surprise.

Yeah usually when something is too obvious its definitely a red herring, at least when a story is a good mystery. That’s my experience when I'm reading (or watching a movie) I usually look for the subtler hints.

But you didn't answer my question ether Desi! Should I let the readers know that there's a hint or not?

Cuz idk like the story I'm thinking about is not really a mystery, but it does have a lil mystery in it at the beginning, so idk if the readers will know whether or not to look for shit because of the genre.

[Tcr]

In my regards, no.  I like finding them, even after the fact.  Take yours, if you hadn't said anything and peppered hints (or, like DP said, red herrings) throughout until a final realization...  That would be something I'd go back and figure...   As it stands right now, what you have in yours is a good way to start it.  It's not obvious and can be built upon as the chapters develop.

[sweetmamajama]

4 minutes ago, Tcr said:

In my regards, no.  I like finding them, even after the fact.  Take yours, if you hadn't said anything and peppered hints (or, like DP said, red herrings) throughout until a final realization...  That would be something I'd go back and figure...   As it stands right now, what you have in yours is a good way to start it.  It's not obvious and can be built upon as the chapters develop.

Ok so you vote no for the telling the audience? You think I shouldn't say anything?

Also is that your opinion in general or just for the Divine Hand?

[Tcr]

That would be in general for me.  Knowing there's hints to me means I've got to find them and I usually end up ruining the experience...   I don't read mysteries because of that.  But finding them in there as you're reading, strangely doesn't ruin anything...  I'm weird, I know. 

[sweetmamajama]

Just now, Tcr said:

That would be in general for me.  Knowing there's hints to me means I've got to find them and I usually end up ruining the experience...   I don't read mysteries because of that.  But finding them in there as you're reading, strangely doesn't ruin anything...  I'm weird, I know. 

Ok, so that's

1 for not telling

0 for telling

so far

[CloverReef]

I agree on the not warning the audience there’s a hint. Part of the fun is trying to discern what’s a hint, especially with the subtle stuff, and what’s not. Let your writing speak for itself. 

[sweetmamajama]

1 minute ago, CloverReef said:

I agree on the not warning the audience there’s a hint. Part of the fun is trying to discern what’s a hint, especially with the subtle stuff, and what’s not. Let your writing speak for itself. 

Ok so

2 for not telling

0 for telling the audience

But come on clovey! If nobody notices the hint then whats the point?!

Btw tbag found the hint in the 1^st chapter but you didn't. Up ur game bitch!

[CloverReef]

The point is, it’s there if they want to look for it. Then there’s people like me who enjoy a good mystery so we can passively watch the MC go through the hints and solve it without us having to do any braining. 

[sweetmamajama]

Just now, CloverReef said:

The point is, it’s there if they want to look for it. Then there’s people like me who enjoy a good mystery so we can passively watch the MC go through the hints and solve it without us having to do any braining. 

u suck clovey!

[CloverReef]

Only in the good way, luv. 

[sweetmamajama]

Just now, CloverReef said:

Only in the good way, luv. 

s whaa I love u

[PenStoryTeller]

If you want to leave hints and clues to your mystery, then you’re playing a  dangerous game. Keep them subtle enough that the reader will recognize them in hindsight rather than use them as foreshadowing.

 

Or in other words. Make your clues subtle enough that the reader won’t see it on the first read through but will recognize things during the second.  The best clues are usually not what you show happening, but rather just alluding to something that happneed off page.

Having the main character notice a tear in the cuff of the butler’s sleeve. Have an off hand comment that  the woman was seen talking with someone named Marcus.

Edited April 21, 2017 by PenStoryTeller

[mastershakeme]

Yeah, you can’t pick and choose your readers. Some will be scholars (i’m sure :-P) and others will be a little less perceptive… Like me for instance! I watch a movie with family and I’m completely confused as to what’s happening and I’m on the edge of my seat… and then the person beside me ruins everything for me because they’re sitting over there pondering over the clues and they already solved the whole plot. It's ok, I know you put the effort into the clues, but forcing people to look for them won’t help. at least i don't think so, but it’s just my opinion. Some people like to go back and read again even! Because they missed the clues the first time! Haha! Idk

[sweetmamajama]

9 hours ago, mastershakeme said:

but forcing people to look for them won’t help.

I don't think Id be forcing anyone if I just gave a hint to dummies that there are clues they could search for if they want an early answer. But I can force my betas to search for clues cuz they're my betas and my bitches! Its their job to tell me if the clues are working so get to searching!

So u also vote for not telling?

[sweetmamajama]

5 minutes ago, mastershakeme said:

. I'm honestly picturing a neck beard trying to point out his cleverness when you said you were going to tell the readers to look for clues

well I do have a neck beard...

[CloverReef]

6 hours ago, sweetmamajama said:

well I do have a neck beard...

Twinsies! 

[sweetmamajama]

Just now, CloverReef said:

Twinsies! 

what?! u don't have a beard u bitch!

[PenStoryTeller]

Tricky question. The general rule is, assume your readers are a little smarter than you,. So whatever you think is subtle, needs to be subtler.

[InvidiaRed]

It depends. Is it a mystery story? If so stick to subtle hints. Don’t punish perceptive readers. A smile, movements and character behavior can all lead someone to accurately foretell what will happen long before events catch up.

For everything else. Word choice.

Edited October 12, 2017 by InvidiaRed
misspelling

[sweetmamajama]

2 hours ago, InvidiaRed said:

It depends. Is it a mystery story? If so stick to subtle hints. Don’t punish perceptive readers. A smile, movements and character behavior can all lead someone to accurately foretell what will happen long before events catch up.

For everything else. Word choice.

word choice? like what?

[InvidiaRed]

51 minutes ago, sweetmamajama said:

word choice? like what?

Word choice as in are you disguising things. Are events transpiring openly or is there more going on that what’s readily being presented on the surface. Context can paint a very different picture of whats going on. A single well placed clue can do more than a ton of less subtle hints. How are you disgusing things if things are not as they appear.

Ex: It seemed as though a trick of light but the ruby seemed to have an inner fire all its own for an instant. (A set up that the ruby isn't normal) 

Ex: Is it really the ticking of a clock or is it a timer steadily ticking down? What kind of tick is it? Is it a tick tock. or is it a steady tick tick tick… BOOM

Ex: Molly felt uneasy being locked in this room. The grand father clock’s ominous ticking didn’t seem quite right it was as if the ticking wasn’t perfectly synched.

The obviousness of the sudden lack of sound brought attention to its sudden absence.

“Oh shi-” Molly didn’t have time to finish as the room upended in a sudden conflagration. 

Bringing attention to certain details or lack of details. Etc..