where have all the cowboys gone?

[hanyou-elf]

is it just me, or is there a sudden influx of stories that revolve solely around sex? i understand that sex is an enjoyable activity that many people enjoy, but seriously? its as if its all people seem to think about anymore. yes, sex is necessary. yes, sex is important. and yes, sex is fun. but what happened to the stories where sex isn't the main theme? just because sex is so much fun, doesn't mean that it's the main topic that everyone should write about.

now, don't get me wrong. i do, on occasion, enjoy a lovely smutty story devoid of any and all plot. however, more often than not, even when i'm looking for a story with a plot that doesn't revolve around the main characters sexual appetite, i come up pretty close to empty handed. there are stories where sex isn't the main topic, isn't even brought into the story, but they are steadily becoming fewer and further between. and most of them have actually been abandoned.

why is it so hard to read a story about a relationship between two characters that doesn't involve sex? why is it so hard to find a story that deals with emotions, rather than sex? and yes, before people start to get up in arms about it, i know that sex is a factor in both relationships and emotions, but damnit. there's more to them than just sex. there's making somebody fall in love, there's convincing somebody that you love them. there's the desperate yearning for the other person when the lovers are separated. why don't people focus on those things more often?

and i have a general idea. if people have noticed, the general intelligence of the first page of stories on a lot of boards has dropped. you get stories that have the main character magically falling in love with their rapist; mpreg; complete out of character characterizations. and my favorite stories (and i mean this in the nastiest, most sarcastic way possible) the stories that have wonderfully deep summaries and interesting titles and horrendous chapters. has the intelligence of writers diminished? has the desire to read a truly interesting story vanished?

but again, the old saying goes: 'sex sales.' and even in writing, sex sales. unfortunately, the readers want sex. so sex is what the authors give them. no matter how horribly the story suffers for it. and it drives me crazy. i like to enjoy a story where sex isn't the final deciding factor on whether two characters are going to finally get together or not. i like to enjoy a story where relationships, the feelings between the two characters involved, and the way they approach their budding relationship are explored. give me a story with a heart. not a story that's rushed and hurried to get to an anti-climatic sex scene.

but, that's enough about what i think. what's your opinion?

[DemonGoddess]

I would far rather read a good story with a plot. I like to see plot and character development. To me, a good story is one which will stand on its own, with or without its sex scenes.

[Guest Zyx]

My favourite stories on AFF are the ones with a good storyline. So you're right. But if the smut is shocking enough I'll be more likely to read it because AFF is just another porn site to me. A classy porn site

[JayDee]

So far as plotting and storylines go, I've almost always preferred original to fanfiction. If I want literature or just a non-smut read I hit the library or buy a book/comic. I write smut, read smut and, basically, I'm in it for the smut.

Each to their own tho'

[hanyou-elf]

i would love to see more stories on aff that revolved around plot, rather than porn. i come to aff to read stories more often than not because other fansites i am a part of are rather childish. and it's silly to continue reading on there and trying to weed out stories written by a thirteen year old becomes tiring after awhile.

and yes, i recognize that aff is an adult site. but that's all the more reason for there to be more to it. because adults are the ones who access the site, adults are the ones who contribute (supposedly). that's what makes me prefer aff to other sites.

and i don't like to read an original story unless it's already completed, because i'm picky like that. and i would prefer to read a regular novel from the library, if i could get there. but i can't, for various reasons.

it would just be nice to see more mature work on the site. that's my biggest complaint.

[Acal]

I totaly agree with you, I found a really awesome publisher that has a huge range of very well written erotica. The perfect balance of sex and plot, you can really see all the relationship struggles and everything. Smut can be pointless but that gets tiring and boring after a time.

[SFC_Omicronus]

At the risk of....Ahh, to hell with it. I'm a shameless plugger.

If you want to look for a great plot, character development, and stories based more on relationship building rather than just straight-out sex, I suggest looking through one author's work on AFF.Net by the name of templeton21. Her work is nothing short of spectacular, her characters are down to earth and her stories are very much romantic and realistic.

Another author I'd look into is LittleMissMalice. One story that I'm currently beta-editing, called 'Cherry', is a great read.

I'd also plug my own work, but...heck, check out some of my work as well. Most of my works are in progress, but hopefully you'll enjoy them as much as you'll enjoy the stories from the authoresses mentioned above.

I think I'm risking my profile here by plugging these authors as well as my own, but their work is really enjoyable, and I'm thinking they may be right up your alley.

EDIT: I can't believe someone that's so anal about spelling and grammar just made the stupidest mistake. I corrected it, though.

Edited August 9, 2008 by SFC_Omicronus

[DemonGoddess]

Nope, no risk to your profile at ALL. The forum IS for discussion isn't it? We're discussing where to find good stories with a plot, and how much we'd rather see that.

I have a few that I read, when I have the time, which I currently do NOT (*sniffles*), and will reread their stuff because they're damn good writers. Don't care what fandom they write in, or whatever. I'll read (or try to) anything they put up. One posts in LotR, the other in many of the Anime subcategories.

[PorkChopExpress86]

I find it hard to read PWP. Just because two characters are in the same place at the same time isn't enough justification for them to get down to business as far as I'm concerned. People write it, people read it, and thats cool, its just not for me. In the stories i've written sex is a huge part of the story, but there is a strong plot there too.

[SFC_Omicronus]

PWP, in my opinion, is pretty much a one-night stand. S/He's there, s/he's there, they're both frustrated, and they just need to let it all out without either of their emotional baggage in the way. From a realistic standpoint, it's pretty much the same: one person's at a club, the other person's at a club...They just need to let it all out.

I will admit that some PWP stories are great reads, though. I've read my share of them, though I personally find them hard to write.

[Jyet]

While what I write is mainly PWP/smut, I definitely enjoy a story that focuses on plot above sex. For example, I'm not a fan of yaoi, but some of the best fanfiction I've read is from the Final Fantasy VII/VIII yaoi sections. It is certainly nice to enjoy reading a story, rather than just enduring a hackneyed plot to get to the hot stuff or simply being presented with it devoid of context.

On another note, a story that is almost exclusively about sex isn't necessarily without plot. There are stories that focus on a single act of making love, but manage to explore the characters, their emotions, and their relationship quite deeply. Yes, those are stories that wouldn't exist if their sex scenes were excised, but many are of the same quality as multi-chapter odysseys.

Adult fiction, whether fanfiction or original, is an interesting thing, as it uses a medium that doesn't seem too suited to the "adult" part. There are obviously more direct, efficient forms of sexual pleasure or pornography than reading text. That's why fiction that makes use of the detail, complexity and insight the written word can provide is usually superior to that which doesn't.

[PorkChopExpress86]

On another note, a story that is almost exclusively about sex isn't necessarily without plot. There are stories that focus on a single act of making love, but manage to explore the characters, their emotions, and their relationship quite deeply. Yes, those are stories that wouldn't exist if their sex scenes were excised, but many are of the same quality as multi-chapter odysseys.

Adult fiction, whether fanfiction or original, is an interesting thing, as it uses a medium that doesn't seem too suited to the "adult" part. There are obviously more direct, efficient forms of sexual pleasure or pornography than reading text. That's why fiction that makes use of the detail, complexity and insight the written word can provide is usually superior to that which doesn't.

Very well stated. I did make too much of a blanket statement earlier. I should have been more clear and said a story that just focuses on the act of sex. The emotional and character development could make for a very interesting story even if it was about a one night stand and was no more then casual sex. Unfortunatly alot of the PWP I have read doesn't end up delving into the characters thoughts and feelings. I'm sure a well written PWP would be a great read, i just haven't come across as much of it as i'd like to.

[mizducky]

Well, as a newbie to this site, I'm just glad to see folks expressing sentiments in favor of stories where the emphasis is on good storytelling, as opposed to pure PWP. Which latter, when done right, I totally enjoy too, don't get me wrong about that. It's just that I came here in search of a place to post my WIP which is primarily an action/adventure story, with the smutty bits (mostly) intrinsic to the plot ... and I've been concerned whether such work would have an audience here. So ... cool. Glad to know I'm in the right place after all.

[Guest MortiferLascivio]

I like both. Sometimes all I want is a smutty story to enjoy that I don't have to really think about, other times I want a story with an even balance of plot and sex, and some times I just want a story with an intense plot and no romance at all. In that case though I usually stay away from ANY pairing story, which is very hard to come across on this site in particular. I mean, this IS where people come to write NC-17 material because they may not be allowed to anywhere else.

For me, in particular, I've just recently gotten into plugging in sex scenes regularly throughout my story; they're never very "raunchy" in comparison with the stuff on this site. I mean, yeah I write yaoi and incest, but I don't write bondage, BDSM, food fetishes or anything like that. Just regular sex (well as regular as gay and incest can go I suppose). My oneshots I wouldn't call PWP though because while there is sex I like to think there's plot as well. Some of my stories merely mention sex or have none at all too.

So as far as plot vs smut, I really can go either way and besides I REALLY like the idea of people reading tasteful (or otherwise ) smut rather than watching it or looking at it online or in a magazine or whatever. Just the idea of people reading more, no matter the content, really has me happy. Just how it goes for me.

[Keith Inc.]

I started out writing in fetish fiction.

The most positive feedback you get there is for something that goes directly to the scenes they come to HighHeelScrotumTapDanceing dot net for. And, frankly, writing with grammar, spellchecking, accurate use of verb tense, makes you look like a god among men in most fetish fandoms. So PWP is really easy to write and really, really popular.

But i've come to enjoy trying to get characterization, development, something that a fan referred to as 'pathos' in my stories. What the second Musketeer has to do with TV Fanfic, i'm not sure...

So, i've got....quite a few stories. Everything from PWP to Porn in every chapter, to whole stories without smex.

If i was going to pitch anything for sex-free character development story it'd be:

http://tv.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600093848

[Guest Flesh_Seraph]

The people who irk me are the ones who talk repeatedly about the invisible quota of plot that every story should meet. These same people tend to write massive, fifty-chapter epics while mining for reviews at every opportunity. Given the choice between the two extremes of this dichotomy. I'd rather read a hamfisted stroke fic than some pretentious hack's delusions of grandeur- at least the former is short. I respect the effort, but why would I want to read an re-interpretation of Naruto by some North American guy when I could just watch Naruto as put forth by the real author?

Naruto is probably a bad example, but it applies to any fandom. What I can't get from watching or reading a given fandom is unabashed sex, and so those things are worth writing about...smut stories tend to be the fictionalizations of flash fantasies from one's own mind, without the need for unnecessary setup. We already receive character interactions, angst, conflict, jeopardy, and other literary devices from any given fandom just by viewing or reading the established canon. I'm not necessarily interested in reading any author's "director's cut" of those things, or his/her version of how an established character would act.

You might now be saying to yourself, "Well, that's your opinion but I write richly-plotted, angsty slash dramas about Naruto and Sasuke because I enjoy imagining a Naruto world where such a thing might be possible, who are you to tell me that it's not worthwhile!?"

And you're right. My opinion means absolutely nothing. You write for your own enjoyment, so godspeed. I'm only trying to help you understand why some people want to skip the part where authors play Barbie Exposition Treehouse with their favorite characters, and get to the fuckin'.

Just sayin'.

- FS

Edited September 10, 2008 by Flesh_Seraph

[Vixie-Chan]

Sometimes I wonder if everyone is turned off by sudden plot changes. Or maybe everyone hates my writing...I try, I really do, but since nobody reviews and tells me how I can improve my writing, I'm having a difficult time. Take my Original Slash fic 'Trouble With A Capital Me' for example, I change the main character into an elf and suddenly everyone stops reviewing/reading. Is it me or my writing?