So, golly, what's the point of disclaimers and story codes when people ignore 'em?

[JayDee]

This rant originated down in the Flames thread on the reviews board as a post there, before I decided it was more of a rant than a post and better suited to here. If it's too bad as a rant, then could one of the mods delete it and PM me with my error?

Background: I wrote Firefly story which can be found on my authors page. Ain't direct linking it as this isn't a promo. I originally had three flames for this story,

See flames thread here

Then got another one,

see flames thread here

...and then, today another one! And from below is where the post I was going to post there began:

Damn, if it isn't people taking the archive clean up project personally and throwing hissy fits as if the whole thing was aimed at them, it's people seeing stuff like:

From my Firefly story summary:

The killers turn their sadistic attentions to the beautiful young mechanic.

From my Firefly story codes:

Tort, Violence, N/C

And, inside, additional story codes and disclaimer:

Content Codes: MM/F, nc, rape, int, anal, oral, mast, tort, vio, tit, scat, gs/ws, +1MV(kill). +2FV(snuff), asphyx, beat,

Please read the story codes above to ensure that you are not going to be offended by, or otherwise dislike, the content.

...and deciding that it is something they'd enjoy to read even though not a one of the codes is something they like and I go out of my way to make it really, really, really clear the story is not a warm and fluffy romance tale.

So, having been shocked, horrified and disturbed by the clearly marked horrific adult content I get flames like this:

Darkwollf 2008-07-24 id # 3000021687

okay. Being very new to this site, but not to fanfic in general, I have to say something. It's not intended to flame, but:

I've written severe stuff in my work as well, but this, my god, takes the damn cake. The fact that your disclaimer says rape is wrong in the real world doesn't condone the writing you've done here. To have a character degraded in such a hideous way is offensive. You as a writer should know what works within a universe's 'reality' and what would not.

Kaylee felt total terror at just the mention of rape (see Objects in Space episode for validation of this statement) and would not, in any way, be turned on by it. Just because she's itching for Simon would not be enough in anyone's mind to allow then to feel arousal at the hands of the two men you've subjected her to.

Truly, this was disturbing, and not for the right reasons. And yes, seek help. You clearly need it.

"Seek help. You clearly need it." Not a flame there, yeah, right.

Nothing I ever wrote is worse than anything Clive Barker or Stephen King puts out, and most of it is tamer than the likes of Saw movies, Hostel movies or Japanese kids TV. It's HORROR, Darkfic, disturbing nightmare fuel. I don't write it to wind people up, because if I did, guess what, I'd not put all the story codes in.

And flame stuff like getting pissed off at a character being portrayed as aroused during rape - when there's lots of evidence that it happens without the slightest conscious effort of a victim, much to shame - and calling it offensive... No, not intended to be a flame! I don't promote rape, but many people have fantasies of being raped (and even tortured), including myself. And there's nothing wrong with fictional fantasies. Nobody seems able to grasp that.

See, this is what gets me about my flames: I know what I write is niche stuff . I know most of it is horrorific and disturbing. I know a lot of people - A LOT of people - don't want to read it.

So knowing this I go out of my way time after time to make the content really clear so they don't have to. And they read it anyway. And then, even if they ignore the summary, story codes, disclaimer... round about the time somebody gets a dick shoved in their face or a nailgun comes out surely a sensible adult had gotta say to themself "Ain't my thing!" and quit reading, not blame an author creating fiction for creating fiction.

"The fact that your disclaimer says rape is wrong in the real world doesn't condone the writing you've done here"

Well, sure. It's not intended to. The fact that my writing is FICTION, clearly portrayed and warned as such, condones my creativity here.

I write. I put it on adult sites with warnings for adults. If you don't like it, don't read it. I mean, seriously, surely you have better things to do than read stories you don't like? There's thousands of stories here you can spend your time on instead.

[DemonGoddess]

hey, I'm glad you're one of 'em who USES the tags as intended. I actually read them to make sure I want to read the story(not like I've had much reading time lately ).

[DarkInuLord]

Thanks for the good rant read. :3 I'm sorry that people are dumb.

Now I feel like writing a graphic rape/death scene just for this reason. ._.

[JayDee]

DemonGoddess061 - Thank you. I think story codes serve a very useful purpose and it's great that adult-fanfiction.org has a wide range available.

DarkInuLord - It really does seem kind of dumb to read something you could tell in advance or very early on you won't like, and then complain about it. It'd be like me going to see a movie that clearly listed Tom Green as appearing and complaining I didn't like what I saw.

I'm used to being flaming. On another celebrity story site a guy was making death threats, which would have been scarier if he wasn't some 500 pound shut in with sock-puppet account delusions of being a lesbian. Yet, yet another flame from someone who could surely tell from the beginning they weren't gonna like it inspired this rant...

Anyway, thanks for both of you! Just needed to vent really.

[DarkInuLord]

Haha, yes, people are dumb. I once posted a short story, like, very short, and I had 50 hate comments in a couple hours. :3 I deleted it, was years ago too, but oh well, shit happens.

I think I'll dedicate my rape/torture/death fanfiction to you, if you don't mind, hope you don't care about it being in the Inuyasha fandom. lol

[Solaris]

Back when I was co-owner of the site, one of the jobs that I had beyond slapping the moderators to make sure that they were doing their jobs(even though they were not doing anything of the kind, just ignoring my pleas before they turned into demands and the next step after that was demotion of them all when I got ousted as co-owner) and let me help Apollo run the site, was deleting people who didn't have disclaimers in their stories and not using the story codes properly.

I was deleting several fics maybe up in the hundreds of hundreds because they lacked the story codes or the disclaimer and we informed everyone about that disclaimers were now mandatory not optional anymore.

I would rather see a story with story codes and disclaimers on then one that doesn't.

Beth

[JayDee]

Story codes and disclaimers are so damn useful. While not seeing it from an admin perspective I too certainly prefer good disclaimers and accurate story coding. Especially with sexual fetish stories where, for some readers or writers, the fetish is all important and if you don't get off on it you probably have no chance of enjoying the story.

DarkInuLord - I don't mind at all! I'm only vaguely aware of what Inuyasha is though so I probably won't go read it.

[DemonGoddess]

heh

I've got an easy fix for people who don't properly disclaim. Which, by the way, is just a part of what I'm doing while we slog though ALLLLLL this fic for the archive repair. If it's not disclaimed properly, I hide the story. For unfics, I routinely go through each and every subdomain EVERY day now, and look for them, so they can die.

But back to the topic at hand....

the story codes are there for a reason. As a reader, that is exactly how I use them. If I see from story codes it's something I'm certain I'm not going to like, I don't even bother clicking the link. I'm of the opinion if one reads the summary (and that's kind of a key, reading the summary ) then one will know whether or not that story is going to be their tastes or not. It's not the AUTHOR'S fault if the user can't be bothered to read the summary.

One other thing that the summary with the codes kind of gives the author an idea on (as well as where a story is placed in the FIRST place), if you get consistent flames from a certain person or two, then obviously, he/she/they are LOOKING for just this sort of thing to start flaming whoever writes it. People who do that are trolls, plain and simple.

[shinigamiinochi]

I love this site because I've gotten almost no hate reviews, but on other sites, I've gotten angry reviews based on my content matter, but I never reply. What's the point? All that needs to be said is in my warnings. I think a lot of people read my stuff just to flame me.

[DarkInuLord]

I want hate reviews... They're fun to read because I don't care. Man I'd do anything for hate revie- Oh hey I'm done with my story, it's up in the Inuyasha section. :: Shameless promotion ::

[JayDee]

Normally they don't bother me. I've got quite a few and haven't replied to past ones... for some reason this fifth one for a Firefly fanfic got to me though. I guess it's because I tended to think of Firefly fans as being intelligent enough to take disclaimers, story codes and summaries into account and yet my illusions have been repeatedly shattered.

[DarkInuLord]

Well, I guess this is proof that people read stories they know they'll hate, just so they can bitch for attention.

Seriously, I need to ask: what the HELL is wrong with you? This makes me sick. I've BEEN raped; it is a painful and awful experience, and reading this... I READ your stupid story tag, and I had to read this to believe it. I was tied up and taken against my will, and here you are, making light of it? Fuck that, you sicko.

[DuranDuranfan]

I've had this same problem within the Real Ghostbusters fandom. Because I've included an OC in my stories, and believe that Egon and Janine as a couple is not my cup of tea, I had to make sure that people have been clearly warned.

Yet what do I find? Flames up my wazoo! And here's the kicker, most of the flaming is from rabid Egon and Janine shippers.

[JayDee]

Well, I guess this is proof that people read stories they know they'll hate, just so they can bitch for attention.

Holy crap! The proof is in the pudding alright... Unless that's a troll. Seems a little OTT

I've had this same problem within the Real Ghostbusters fandom. Because I've included an OC in my stories, and believe that Egon and Janine as a couple is not my cup of tea, I had to make sure that people have been clearly warned.

Yet what do I find? Flames up my wazoo! And here's the kicker, most of the flaming is from rabid Egon and Janine shippers.

Shipping wars weird me out. That people get so upset over this pairing or that pairing or whatever... It's just fanfiction, it's just fun and creativity!

Bah. A Rant for another thread, there perhaps.

[DuranDuranfan]

Shipping wars weird me out. That people get so upset over this pairing or that pairing or whatever... It's just fanfiction, it's just fun and creativity!

I know, and yet when you try telling them that, it's like banging you head repeatedly against a brick wall. They refuse to believe that that's how they're behaving.