Review responses for "Star's Crossed Lovers" (Star vs. the Forces of Evil)

[GeorgeGlass]

I’m currently working on the third chapter of my latest Phineas and Ferb story, “Hot Yoga.” I’ve also got a Miraculous story in the works (to be titled “Miss Match”), as well as another The Loud House story (“The Loud House After Dark”).

I’m definitely open to writing a Milo Murphy’s Law story, but I’m waiting for the right idea to hit me.

[G3ae]

12 minutes ago, GeorgeGlass said:

I’m currently working on the third chapter of my latest Phineas and Ferb story, “Hot Yoga.” I’ve also got a Miraculous story in the works (to be titled “Miss Match”), as well as another The Loud House story (“The Loud House After Dark”).

I’m definitely open to writing a Milo Murphy’s Law story, but I’m waiting for the right idea to hit me.

Miraculous Ladybug? Really? Man, I would not have expected that at all. Meaning no disrespect to you or the show, but that one really just doesn't seem like something you would use. Of course, what do I know? I only know you through your work.

[All possible worlds]

4 hours ago, GeorgeGlass said:

Although Oskar is a canonical character, he has been used so little on the show that writing him is almost like writing an OC. That has given me a lot of freedom to develop him.

True. He pretty much got more character development in Starcrushed than in the rest of the series put together and that still puts him far behind Ferguson in terms of development. But, yeah, in Oskar’s case I meant to say that he stayed true and consistent to the character you developed him as.

 

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Actually, the omission of the quotation mark there was intentional. When a piece of dialogue continues into the next paragraph, you leave off the end quote in the first paragraph as a clue to the reader that the same character is still speaking.

Whoops. Then I literally have nothing but praise for you

 

[GeorgeGlass]

22 hours ago, G3ae said:

Miraculous Ladybug? Really? Man, I would not have expected that at all. Meaning no disrespect to you or the show, but that one really just doesn't seem like something you would use. Of course, what do I know? I only know you through your work.

Miraculous is seriously formulaic, but as Phineas and Ferb proves, a formulaic show can be great if the formula works. And Miraculous has certain qualities that make it good lemon fodder:
-an understated sensuality (eg, Ladybug's nice figure in her form-fitting costume)
-two main characters who are attracted to each other in a big way
-magic, which makes many a plot device plausible

Oh, I left out a fandom in my previous post: I’ve been working on a Steven Universe story on and off for some time now. .

[GeorgeGlass]

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From Fairy-Slayer on April 12, 2017

Chapter 12 - SPOILERS ABOUND!
First off, I don't think anyone could do a better job of portraying Marco as such a honorable young man. Seriously, how many teenage boys would hesitate when their sexy girlfriend demands that they have intense, steamy sex with another pretty, sexy girl whom he happens to like a lot already? And while said girlfriend watches? Even after said pretty girl says she's fine with it too? Even hoping that after getting started that his girlfriend would call it off? Okay, I'll admit that's pretty in-character for Marco, so the really impressive part was how Jackie's reasoning felt very natural for the situation and matched well with her lively yet easygoing personality.

 

Suddenly, Marco looks like the typical protagonist of a harem anime movie.

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Meanwhile Star's shocked silence then demand for clarification was a great set-up for how quickly she agreed once she knew that Jackie and Oskar were serious. Then, just when I thought it couldn't get any better, it turns out that her seemingly-casual take on it was really a statement about how strongly she believed that their friendship would thrive forever no matter what. (And I agree that the nod to the word screwing was a cute touch too.)

As Rogelio said, true friendship requires faith. Star has that faith in spades.

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Their lovemaking started wonderfully enough, even while expressing their awkwardness perfectly. It was cute how they started to make fun of the situation a little until Jackie told them to get serious (another point for my first paragraph); still, I was glad that even after making good use of Jackie's and Oskar's observations about getting Marco and Star revved up that they again decided to do it their own way. Apparently Jackie and Oskar enjoyed the fact that they did, too.

Jackie and Oskar's hints helped Star and Marco jump-start their arousal. Once their motors were running, though, they were ready to do things their own way.

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The sexy action was fun and hot while also being the kind of caring thing that true soul mates would enjoy. The descriptions of their bodies were delicious too, and Star playing along with the Marquito thing without skipping a beat was cute. Actually all of the dialogue throughout added to the whole event without getting in the way once.

I couldn't imagine Star and Marco having sex without talking. I mean, these guys don't even stop talking when they're fighting monsters.

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I'm just glad that they came to such a screaming finish because Jackie's final words sound a bit ominous, and I really could feel Marco's dread once the afterglow faded. No matter what, it's going to be interesting to see what happens from here. Thanks.

Thank you! Final chapter to be posted shortly.

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BTW the chapter title didn't have me the least bit worried that Princess Ponyhead would be joining in the action. Nope, not one bit…

Yikes. I didn't even think about that.

BTW, in your review of chapter 6, you mentioned that you were pretty sure what “gift” Tom was going to have Janna pass along to Star. Were you right? (The gift was the four passes to the Chillaximus Spa.)

[G3ae]

23 minutes ago, GeorgeGlass said:

Miraculous is seriously formulaic, but as Phineas and Ferb proves, a formulaic show can be great if the formula works. And Miraculous has certain qualities that make it good lemon fodder:
-an understated sensuality (eg, Ladybug's nice figure in her form-fitting costume)
-two main characters who are attracted to each other in a big way
-magic, which makes many a plot device plausible

Oh, I left out a fandom in my previous post: I’ve been working on a Steven Universe story on and off for some time now. .

Alright, if you say so. Personally, I agree with everything you've said about it and would probably enjoy watching it, but it's always seemed just too childish. I'm a pretty big fan of formulaic myself and I did enjoy Phineas and Ferb. It's just the way everything is written, you'd think this was Preschool not Highschool. It takes away from the other undeniable good points just too much to get through. But hey, with every other work you've given us, somehow I doubt I'll be able to make that claim about Miss Matched. Can't wait to see what you do with the place.

[GeorgeGlass]

Author Notes (SPOILERS)

The idea for “Star’s Crossed Lovers” came to me when I was writing my previous SVTFOE story, “It's Different for Boys,” in which Star volunteers to help make Marco look cool in front of Jackie, and Marco tells Star that if she ever needs a wingman with Oskar, he'll be there. The story goes in a completely different direction after that, but the idea of Star and Marco becoming each other's wingmen stayed with me. I figured, they're opposite-sex best friends who have crushes on other people, so why wouldn’t they help each other out?

The other inspiration for this story was a sketch by Kyder of Star fist-bumping Marco while he's getting it on with Jackie. The one thing I thought would have made the picture even better would be if Star were doing Oskar at the same time (because I loves me some parallelism), so I decided to make that happen in story form.

After having the initial idea, I had to do some research, because I didn't know what a wingman actually does to help his buddy get with someone. So I posted the question on a couple of different forums. The general consensus was that the wingman’s role is to make the other guy look good by saying things like, “Hey, I heard about that big raise, congrats!” in front of the woman the guy is trying to impress. That helped me figure out what Star and Marco would say in front of each other's respective crushes.

Coming up with the title was difficult. Not satisfied with my own ideas (eg, “Flight of the Wingmen”), I posted a brief summary of the story here on the AFF forums and asked for suggestions. Fellow SVTFOE fanfic writer GrayNeko came up with the nicely witty title “Star’s Crossed Lovers.”

As mentioned in the disclaimer at the start of the story, I began writing before season 2 aired, and I fully expected that at least some of the events of season 2 would contradict what happens in the story. This proved to be the case, to such a great degree that I didn't even try to reconcile the story with season 2 canon. Here are some of the points of contradiction:

•    In chapter 4, Star gets upset at Marco for describing Star and himself as being “just friends.” But in the episode “Mr. Candle Cares,” Star uses this phrase to describe her relationship with Marco.
•    In chapter 10, Janna uses the narwhal blast spell and implies that she learned it from Star’s spell book. However, in season 2, we learn that narwhal blast isn't in the book (because Star made it up herself).
•    Tom actually proves to be a bit sympathetic in the season 2 episodes “Mr. Candle Cares” and “Friendenemies,” whereas in “Star’s Crossed Lovers,” he's a straight-up villain. (Before season 2 began, I thought that Tom might end up being the Big Bad for the season, given the scuzziness of his trying to trick Star into binding her soul to his in “Blood Moon Ball.” But upgrading Ludo was a valid villain choice, too, IMO.)
•    The big one: In season 2, Star develops a crush on Marco. I'm not against that; it just wasn't the direction I wanted to go in this story.

Boner is based on the skeletal guy who is chained to the wall and about to get smashed with a mace (voluntarily, it seems) in “Blood Moon Ball.” I created Boner mainly to give Tom someone to talk to as he formulates his evil plans, but he's there for comic relief, too. I imagine Boner as having the slowest, dullest voice that Tom Root (the actor who voices Tom's life coach, Greg, as well as many characters on other shows) could manage.

Grandpa Rogelio was inspired by the World's Most Interesting Man from the Dos Equis commercials.

The first bit of dialogue I thought of for Rogelio was his words to Marco in chapter 9 about how “the pasión, she die...Not quickly, like the slaughtered pig whose slit throat sprays blood like a lawn sprinkler...but slowly, like the pig with the chronic atherosclerosis.” His fondness for disgusting similes grew from that.

The name of Tom's favorite brand of horn polish, Dr. Boggs’ Hex Wax, is a play on Mr. Zogs’ Sex Wax, which is used on surfboards.

The bit in chapter 6 about Janna's parents lamenting the loss of their favorite business establishments (the goth store for her mom, the coffee shop for her dad) is meant to imply that Janna is the offspring of a goth and a grunge. That would explain her behavior and fashion sense perfectly, don't you think?

I've always thought it was a little weird that Oskar has those fangs and that they have yet to be explained, or even mentioned. So I came up with the half half-demon thing to explain why Oskar has them.

The idea of Janna finding Marco’s handwritten five-step plan in chapter 6 was inspired by Fairy Slayer. When he beta-read chapter 1, he commented that Marco putting the list in his pocket was surely a setup for someone to find it later. I hadn't even considered that, but then I thought about a certain girl who gets a kick out of picking Marco's pockets, and there we were.

The title of chapter 7, “To the Maximus,” is sort of a double entendre, as it refers to both the Chillaximus Spa and to the gluteus maximus—the muscle of Jackie's that Marco especially wants to massage.

The bit about Star and Marco cuddling up with the laser puppies for warmth at night was inspired by my cats, which I sometimes find sleeping on top of me when I wake up on a cold morning.

The only laser puppy that has been named on the show to date is Sajak, who is presumably named for Pat Sajak of Wheel of Fortune. Thus, the three laser puppies that are named in chapter 9—Harvey, Barker, and Eubanks—get their names from other American game show hosts: Steve Harvey (Family Feud), Bob Barker (The Price Is Right), and Bob Eubanks (The Newlywed Game).

A few ideas I toyed with and rejected:

•    Rogelio (and therefore Marco) is descended from a noble family that was banished from Mewni for siding with the monsters in the Great Monster Massacre. Rogelio is in the current royal family's good graces, though, and he contacts them (through a magic mirror of his own) at the end of the story to give a mysterious report about “how things are progressing” between Star and Marco—implying that they are expected to get together eventually. I rejected this idea because it implies that there will be a sequel (which I am not planning at this point) and, more importantly, because it undercuts the story's theme of friendship over passion.
•    Janna is not fully human but is partly some sort of spider-creature. This idea came from Janna inexplicably baring a pair of spider-like fangs in “Interdimensional Field Trip.” (Yes, they were probably plastic fangs Janna bought at the museum gift shop, but who knows?) But I didn't think this would add anything useful to the story.
•    We find out that Jackie has known about the five-step plan for some time (maybe because Janna blabbed), but she isn't angry about it; rather, she feels flattered that Marco would go to such lengths to become her boyfriend. But that idea seemed contrived and, ultimately, unnecessary, because Jackie could easily figure out on her own that Star was the catalyst for Marco starting to court her.

I often “proofread” my work by having the Voice Aloud app on my phone read it to me, which makes it easier to notice misspellings and repeated words and such. (I got this idea from Fairy Slayer.) Amusingly, although the app has problems pronouncing certain words, like “piece” and “wash,” it pronounces “Uncle Hardegarbamar” perfectly.

If this story were a movie, I would want the poster to show Star and Marco standing back to back, ready to kick some butt, with the tagline, “Not just friends. Best friends.”

[G3ae]

Well, I certainly didn't expect that, especially after the chapter before. I’d expected what I’d guess everyone who watches StarvFE expects in the end and for Marco and Star to get together. Still, I’m not complaining of course. You do good work and are the only one I know of who will even touching ideas like this. I congratulate you for yet another story well written and a job well done.

[GeorgeGlass]

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From all_possible_worlds on April 14, 2017

Chapter 13 (and final) review

*Massive spoilers ahead*

Whoa, you got me! I honestly thought this was going to be a starco fic played straight in the end when I read Chapter 12. It frankly could have been, but the fact that it isn't makes me like the whole thing even more. Marco and Star's chemistry reads first as cute and second as hot, but that kinda would work for them even if they did end up as the couple. On the other hand, I am so so glad that this didn't end up with Jackie and Oskar together-by-default or left by the wayside.

I've always had mixed feelings about the notion of Star and Marco having a romantic relationship. On the one hand, they are great together, and no doubt they would be great in a long-term boy/girl relationship, too. But on the other hand, I feel like their getting together romantically would be, in a sense, a step down for them, because romantic feelings could easily get in the way of the wonderful friendship they have (which seems to be pretty much what happened in season 2). So I decided to make “Star’s Crossed Lovers” about the strength of Star and Marco's friendship and how much each of them values it.

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I think is also a pretty cool point to make that Marco and Star can be soulmates, and the person each other truly loves the most, without that love being romantic love, let alone the person each other are most attracted to, sexually. There is some attraction too, I would think, but I get your point of it being much *less* than their attraction to their respective crushes. I also do like that the "*just* friends" debacle and the conversation with Rogelio was (truly great) foreshadowing.

You SO get this. Thank you.

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Now, all that said, and as your fan and holding you to an extremely high standard: I didn't like the sex scene in the final chapter as much as I liked the one in chapter 12. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea: Marco x Star have cute loving besties sex, while Marco x Jackie and Star x Oskar have steamy hot I-need-this-now sex. But I feel, given that idea, that the actual scene rushes through the sex scene, then jump-cuts to the fist-bump (which is awesome btw, I already read the post so I know how important that scene was). It is by no means a bad sex scene, but what I am saying is that it is not the best sex scene in this fic, at least to me. Reading this, I can be convinced on an intellectual level that Marco finds Jackie hotter than Star and Star gets it on so much more Oskar, but I wished I had felt that, viscerally. I did not. Although, of course, that is very subjective.

That's fair. To be honest, when I wrote that scene, I was still thinking in terms of all of the material in chapters 12 and 13 being one chapter, and I didn't want to cram two prolonged sex scenes into one chapter. Also, I couldn't think of what to do differently with Marco and Jackie's second sexual encounter that would distinguish it from the first. So I was not at my most creative there.

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That said, again, I am actively looking for reasons to nitpick at this point, and holding you to the highest possible standard. Everything else has me well and truly impressed: what the conclusion to the story is, how perfect you get the characters (still not tired of hearing that one?)

Not now, not ever.

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and each of the "epilogue" conversations: Jackie figuring things out regarding the whole wingman project, Star thanking Marco about the Blood Moon ball once she realized what had truly been at stake (which, of course, she would do in cannon if she knew, but see p.s.), Grampa Rogelio showing up again and explaining why his metaphors work better than the standard, and finally, of course, this heart-melting dialog:

    “Yup,” Star agreed. “‘Cause tomorrow's gonna be another awesome day!”

    “And so's the day after that,” Marco said with a smile.

    “And the day after that, and the day after that!” Star replied brightly.

 

I guess that's the Star-and-Marco way of saying, "And they lived happily ever after."

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So, overall, I love this fic and will probably re-read from the start again soon enough. As for the arguable 'moral of the story', I myself feel that love is sometimes slightly overrated and friendship is way way underrated, so I approve.

In the end, it's all love. Romantic love is just one flavor.

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p.s. My take on Blood Moon Ball is that the Blood Moon *choses* two souls, and Tom is delusional if he thinks there was any chance it would chose him and Star, even if Marco hadn't gone. More likely, the Blood Moon *knew* Marco would be there, or it is fated, or whatever. But that is not my opinion on your work but on Daron Nefcy's.

That's an interesting theory. It would explain why the painting talked to Marco (something that has yet to be brought up on the show). It also casts Tom in a less asshole-ish light, because it implies that Tom might have been merely hoping that Star was destined to be his soulmate instead of trying to trick her into becoming that.

[GeorgeGlass]

4 hours ago, G3ae said:

Well, I certainly didn't expect that, especially after the chapter before. I’d expected what I’d guess everyone who watches StarvFE expects in the end and for Marco and Star to get together. Still, I’m not complaining of course. You do good work and are the only one I know of who will even touching ideas like this. I congratulate you for yet another story well written and a job well done.

Thank you! I would be happy if Star and Marco got together in the end, but I would also be happy if they ended up best friends for life.

[G3ae]

27 minutes ago, GeorgeGlass said:

Thank you! I would be happy if Star and Marco got together in the end, but I would also be happy if they ended up best friends for life.

I guess that'd work, provided that they provide a satisfying alternate ending for the two of them. It would make a good point that men and women can be friends without attraction getting in the way.

You know, I never thought to ask you before as it's not exactly your usual fare, but with my complete lack of luck thus far, what the hell. There's a web series called Out With Dad about a lesbian teenager and her father dealing with all of the extreme trouble that's attached to coming out in this day and age. I know, not the greatest summary in the world, but I assure you the show is much better in actuality that I describe it. 

Here's the part where you come it. You see, as I see it, the show and it's characters have lots of potential for stories but I've searched high and low and could only find one poorly written story, barely over 1000 words. Now, ordinarily I would correct such a travesty myself, but what little skill I have is no good for writing anything of the sort. I've been reaching out to every author I thought might listen to me for months, trying to get somebody interested. So far no dice, and it's driving me completely nuts. So, if you have the time to actually watch the show and think it might be worth a story or two, give me a shout, I'd love to see what you come up with. You can find it easily on Youtube or on the official show website

[GeorgeGlass]

I’ve never heard of “Out With Dad,” but maybe I’ll check it out. I don’t generally write stories about live-action shows, though.

[GeorgeGlass]

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From Fairy-Slayer on April 16, 2017

Chapter 13 (You came too soon…)

Excuse me?

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Well that was a fantastic way to turn things around – even literally once or twice. Jackie Lynn Thomas has always been easygoing but, even though she'd pretty much demanded that Star and Marco make love, to watch them really enjoy it without feeling any twinges of jealous herself is the ultimate.

In watching Marco and Star, Jackie can see that their feelings about each other are fundamentally different from Marco's feelings about her. Although Marco enjoys himself with Star (after getting past the awkward stage), their sexual encounter visibly lacks the passion and intimacy that characterized Jackie and Marco's coupling at the Chillaximus Spa. So, ironically, watching her boyfriend have sex with Star makes Jackie see that Star is not a threat.

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The enthusiastic opening to the "Everything worked out for the best so let's all do it already!" sex scene was delicious as usual, with a quick yet satisfying build-up to the big moment, and jumping to the end was great not only for keeping things running along but also because that description of how sweaty, heaving, spent, etc. they were gave my imagination license to fill in the gaps as well as Marco and Oskar had been doing.

Glad you liked that.

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Star and Marco's fist bump was a great touch to signify that they're still close friends while also being a nice callback to when they came up with their ingenious plan. The later hint that Jackie had some inkling that it was something like that showed that she's certainly no dummy, but to the point where if it turned out great for her then it doesn't really matter.

Exactly. Jackie has never struck me as the type to get in the way of her own happiness.

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Clearing the air when they were alone again was a nice touch. I don't know if it was completely necessary because I'd already felt that the Darkstar and Blood Moon stuff had been resolved, but making sure it was settled without needing to over-do it was not a bad idea at all since there was some pretty hard and hot action when that was being worked out.

Star’s apology was one of those “I wish they would do this on the show” things. If Star ever finds out what Tom was trying to do at the Blood Moon Ball, I'd like to think that she would apologize to Marco (after reading Tom the Riot Act) for chastising him that night. (Unless, of course, All Possible Worlds’ theory about the Blood Moon choosing the souls that it binds together turns out to be right.)

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Man, I actually felt a twinge of regret that Rogelio had to go and we got to spend so little time with him. (But hey, that beer isn't going to sell itself…?) Perhaps I was projecting a bit of Marco, but in the end I think they bonded pretty well with Marco sharing his problems and his grandfather giving him just the right kind of and (and, as I noted an instant before seeing him explain it) quite memorable advice.

I couldn't readily think of a way to involve Rogelio more in the story. But keep in mind that his visit actually lasted almost a month in story-time.

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Ending with their optimism and one last bit of wingman affection did the trick. Awesome story, and it flowed so well and was so enjoyable that I was surprised to see that it comes out to sixty-five (printed) pages.

Thanks! Yeah, this thing basically turned into a novella.

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You are most welcome for the proofreading. I only wish I hadn't needed to recuse myself once or twice. But more importantly thank you for this hard work and riveting result.

It was a labor of love. Thanks again.

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by GeorgeGlass

[All possible worlds]

On 4/14/2017 at 3:22 PM, GeorgeGlass said:

That's fair. To be honest, when I wrote that scene, I was still thinking in terms of all of the material in chapters 12 and 13 being one chapter, and I didn't want to cram two prolonged sex scenes into one chapter.

That makes a lot of sense, I don’t think I would have felt it needed to be that big a scene if it wasn’t the, for lack of a better term, “main piece” of its own chapter. It is actually a pretty nice sex scene, on a second read. I guess I was holding up to the standard of being the story’s climax (heh). The point of the story is made either way, and is not like I can complain about the lack of steamy scenes in this fic as whole

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In the end, it's all love. Romantic love is just one flavor.

Well, I guess I should have put my argument in terms of ἔρως (Eros, romantic love) being somewhat overrated and φιλία (Phillia, love between friends) being underrated, which is a weird argument for me to make when reading an *erotic* fanfiction, but nonetheless true. Either way, it is a great theme, specially for this series.

My take on starco as a couple in cannon is that, while the jealousy triangle thing is certainly an obstacle to overcome one way or the other, they will probably keep their friendship whether or not they become an item romantically. But honestly, when “Just Friend’s” aired and based on wild speculation from the released episode summaries, my hope was that season 2 finale would have Marco (and possibly Jackie) rescue Star from Ludo/Toffee while we got a triumphant reprise of “Just Friends” for background music. There is not a thing wrong or lacking about those two being friends.

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That's an interesting theory. It would explain why the painting talked to Marco (something that has yet to be brought up on the show). It also casts Tom in a less asshole-ish light, because it implies that Tom might have been merely hoping that Star was destined to be his soulmate instead of trying to trick her into becoming that.

Well, it is one possibility. If that theory is not true, then I guess Tom didn’t actually think of the implications of his plan if he did somehow manage to “trick” the Blood Moon into binding their souls when they were not at least compatible. It is not an unidirectional link, so Tom would also just have gotten her soul entangled for all eternity to someone who would hate him for it. I guess a forced soul-bound could be played for off the charts dark drama in the right kind of light, in a way that even rape or forced marriage don’t quite reach. Then again, the show does have a lot of elements that are super dark if you dwell to long on them, and supposedly “nicer and kinder” season 2 Tom did threaten to kill Marco just so that he wouldn’t tell Star that he was using the counsellor to spy on her...

I guess “The Blood Moon binds Star and Tom” is a good potential prompt for a seriously messed up fic on this site

Edited April 17, 2017 by All possible worlds