Guest Monsterking

Is there an point where story content is not accepteble?

is there an point where you draw the lion as an writer?  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. yes or no question

    • yes there is?
      25
    • no there is not?
      29


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Guest Monsterking

i know this is off topic but too add on too porkchops comment about gay people i have nothing against them after all they are usualy in "GENUINE LOVE" with each other and love is something no matter how odd that must be chearished and cultivated in our soceity.

Peace out and may the furs be with you! "WOOOOOO!!"

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*sighs* Ok... let's look at the facts. Both pedophilia and homosexuality are sexual orientations. You can't go saying one is fine and the other is a mental disorder. As per my earlier example of my fascination with feet; people like what they like. There really is no rhyme or reason to it. Why is my favorite color teal? Why am I a borderline pyro? Why on gods green earth does anybody like proffessional wrestling? The human brain is a very tricky thing. Each individual has their own unique likes and dislikes. Chemicals in the brain can control things like mood. Disorders of the brain can make us have hallucinations involving any one of our senses. But as far as I know, nobody has found anything in the brain to account for individual likes and dislikes.

There was an experiment that someone did to study the "nature vs nuture" theory. I remember learning about it in my psychology class. They took identical twins and separated them at birth. One went to a Jewish family, and the other to a regular German family. This was done in the 1930's mind you... Years later they brought them back together and studied them. They looked at thier likes and dislikes, habbits, and what kind of lives they lived. I don't remember all the specifics, but they were strikingly similar in a lot of ways, which could possibly suggest that ones likes and dislikes are somehow determined by DNA, at least some of them anyway. So how can you say 'well, you're a man who likes other men. It's a genetic thing that you can't help so you're fine.' Then turn around to a pediphile and say 'You like little kids. It's part of your genetic makeup so you're a very sick person and we're going to punish you harshly.' That is society trying to catogorize everything into neat little boxes and anything a specific community thinks is wrong is labeled as sick.

Pediphila is considered wrong, but we as a society have only felt that way for the past 30 or so years. I'm not exactly sure when the laws were passed, but around like the 1950's it was perfectly acceptable for a 30 year old man to marry a 12 year old girl. And I can bet that they had sex on the wedding night, and many nights thereafter. I honestly can't see a man saying 'you're my wife, but you're under 18 so I'll wait until you're 18 to fuck you.'

Two things led to societies views being what they are now. One of them was the women's rights movement. Women decided to stand up and say that they had just as much right as a man to get an education, own property, and vote. Up until then women were bought and traded. They were no better than farm animals. A family with a daughter had a dowry (not sure I spelled that right) that they would give the man who married their daughter in hopes that they could attract a rich man. It was anything from money, to farm animals, to property. As soon as a girl started menstrating she was up for sale.

The second is advances in medicine. It wasn't that long ago when the average human life expectancy was around 50 or so. Now I think it's like 80. In the early 1900's it was around 40. Shorter lifespans equals shorter childhoods. A man was given the right to vote at 18, but I believe he was considered an adult before that.

Look at dogs. They live 10-20 years or so depending on the breed. A female goes into heat at around a year old. Nobody gets upset over a dog being bred that young. Or rats for example... They live 2-3 years on average. Female rats are sexually mature at 2 weeks. Males don't become sexually mature until 5 weeks. I own a pet rat and I did my research.

But the point of all that was that the shorter the lifespan, the younger they become adults. That's true for humans too. When you were only expected to live to be 35, if you waited until you were 18 to get married and have kids, you'd be dead before your kids grew up and became adults themselves. But now we're living into the hundreds so society suddenly was able to decide ok... 18 and over you're an adult, under 18 you're a child. And along with that came the mentality that if you're sexually attracted to anyone under 18 you're a sick monster who deserves to be put away for life and or castrated.

I guess the whole point of this long and drawn out post is that I find it riddiculous that people now persecute something that has been around since the dawn of civilization, and only recently considered wrong. I'm not saying I condone pediphilia. I'm just saying that not everything is cut out in black and white.

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pedophelic writing is really the only thing that should be banned. In most cases the argument that reading is not the same as doing is valid, but clinical evidence shows that there is no cure for pedophiles and they experience some of the highest repeat offenders of all sex crimes.
Even if all that is true, where's the connecting leap between writing in which no one is harmed and acting which inflicts harm?
Pedophelia has been classified as a mental disorder as well as a felony and as such should not be reinforced with pornographic fanfiction.

Lots of people have claimed for years that porn/smut leads directly to terribly antisocial behaviors. If that's true, if porn causes rape or worse, then all porn should be restricted or deleted.

If the written word, though, doesn't lead down the slippery slope, then there is no justification for restricting any of it.

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I feel free speech ought to be honoured, therefore imposing restrictions on the work of others isn't right as we aren't obliged in any way to read the work of others. If you don't like it, don't look at it.

I do think that all writers have a personal responsibility to consider their own limitations and make a conscious decision over what they submit/publish. There are things that I'm not comfortable reading or writing, therefore I avoid work that includes the things I have a distaste for. Their existence, however, doesn't threaten me in any way, nor does it upset me.

I firmly disagree with the view that a depiction of something taboo (such as incest, for example) actively encourages it to be performed in real life. Violent video games are not responsible for a person's behaviour, just as fictional scenarios of abuse, rape, etc, are not responsible for a person's behaviour. If the written word was proven to be a slippery slope for rapists or child molesters, then books such as The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold would never have made it to the printers, Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita would be banned, and perhaps condemnation would even extend to D.H. Lawrence's Sons and Lovers.

The slippery slope does not lie with the mental instability of perverts and the depraved, it lies with censorship. How long would it be before material that merely suggests or makes subtle hints is subject to the tyranny of censorship?

More time should be spent dealing with the real perpitrators of crime rather than cracking the whip on harmless publications.

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this is an interesting topic, but one that could continue to be debated long into the future.

my opinion on if there is subject matter that isn't acceptable in a story? no, no there is no such thing as a subject that can't be fictionalized and shared with others. the main topic of discussion in this thread has been pedophilia, and while i'll agree that it's one of the more disgusting fetishes that are out there, it's also not going to suddenly disappear because fanfictions don't feature them anymore.

there are several things that i, as a reader, would choose to not read. but i'm also not going to intentionally find a story that doesn't sit well with my personal preferences and tell the author(s) what a crappy story because of the single reasoning that it doesn't go along with what i like the most. the fetish is too... out there for me. now that doesn't mean that i think they shouldn't be allowed to write what they want, it just means that i don't agree with the fetish they are portraying.

there are several things that i, as a writer, would chose to not write about. but i'm not going to stand here today and say that i would never consider writing in one of the topics that i'm leery of. i don't like child molestation, and yet i've written about it. i don't like rape, but i've written about it. i don't like suicide, but i've written about that too. it's a matter of perspective and what the writer is trying to accomplish in writing the story. there are too many ways to portray a single topic that it would be impossible to limit somebody's choice of writing.

besides, if we limit one thing, we have to limit everything. and limits are relative. what i consider a limit, wouldn't be a limit to somebody else. (as can be seen here: i don't care if there are stories that include pedophilia, but monsterking is adamantly against it.) yes, it's true that there are definite trends when it comes to things like fetishes, but it's also true that beliefs change. and as beliefs change, so does the idea of acceptable and unacceptable things. by the way, i'm not justifying pedophilia, which is what this thread seems to be focused solely on.

there are a lot of wonderful things being said here, and when playing on this site, when perusing the archives, one must remember to always, always respect the first amendment. the freedom of speech. and if you have issues with pedophilia specifically, you can always read on skyehawke.

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As one poster said, this will always be a hotly debatable subject.

Personally, I am turned off by any sort of pedophile activity. However, it has been going on for thousands of years.

What is classified as pedophile? What age? In the stone age, our species rarely lived past the age of 30, so people were mated and bearing children as soon as they hit their first menstrual cycle.

During the times of the Greeks, Roman's, Babalonians, and the Ottomans, (even in Asia) a bride could be as young as 9 when given to her future husband. Slaves that were caught as part of war, during those times, where also commonly used as sexual companions. (Or either sex).

What is the age of consent? 17? 18? 16? Even in the USA, , at the turn of the century and until the early 1040's it was very common practice for people to marry young (12, 13, 14) and begin bearing children. Is was something necessary in an agrarian-agricultural society.

People themselves, begin to experience sexual feelings as young as 6 or 7. I can attest this for myself. I think we all know we have experimented with our own bodies as children, touching and exploring "what felt good". So are we saying that anyone under the age of 12 has no sexual feelings nor can experience orgasm or "pleasant feelings" by sexual stimulation?

Again, I am not for this, just throwing out some history and joining the discussion... However, I am for "freedom of speech and FICTIONAL writing".

We classify pedaphilia as a mental disorder. Does that mean if someone who is Bi Polar, PTSD, or Depressed, writes about drug use, or thoughts of suicide, cutting or self mutilation we call it criminal? What is that person is writing about someone who is aged 13, and is a fictional character? What if that person is writing about themselves?

I think there is an "inherant nature" in today's society to feel bad and motherly/fatherly towards those who can't take care of themselves. (Children or animals) We are disgusted when we hear about animal abuse, but yet write fanfic about humans and cartoon animals (or real animals) having sexual relations.

Yes, I am a mother, with a (now) adult son. I would be horrified if anyone hurt him, however, I will defend a right for people to write what FICTICIOUS stuff they want.

I am not a murderer and would never harm someone, but yet all my stories are very violent and deal with graphic descriptions of violence. Does this make me mentally unstable, even if I am aroused by reading my own fictional characters engaging in violence and BDSM sex?

We (as a society) run the risk of a very slippery slope and one we have to be careful of. No one is telling anyone "how they must feel, or what they must support". However, we must truly think through all the ramifications of "shock emotional reactions" and/or simply being led blindly by politicians and religious leaders.

Yes, in real life, those who harm children and molest them, should be punished. What do we do though when a 16 or 13 year old actively seeks out on their own a sexual partner who is say...25 or 35? Is the older person a "molester"? Even if the 16 year old initiated it? What is legal age of consent? (it varies around the world).

Granted, not everyones stories will appeal to every reader. (Nor should they). Some may find M/M slash material a complete turn off, or violence, or people doing it with (robots, cartoons, underage wizards at Hogwarts). But I will support to the end, people who wish to write, fictional portrayals of above.

Also keep in mind, some people do write to either "shock" or even to get negative attention. Some people want attention so much, even negative attention/negative reviews is fine by them.

While I might not agree with everyones position or posts, I DO defend and respect your opinion and right to post it.

I guess, what my rambling post is saying is this. Stand by your opinions, morals and decisions, but be informed. Always research the history into something. The minute we, as a society stop being informed and thinking for ourselves, we lose that which is the creative spark within us.

As always, the above is just my humble opinion.

Warmly,

Kanashii

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I don't think any thing is unacceptable in a story. As a matter of fact, I try and take depravity and obscenity to new levels with every story I write. Incest, bestiality, rape, necrophilia, pedophilia, scat, these are all just tools I use to drag the concept of humanity through the mud and tap into the primal insanity that hides deep within all of us. Every society imposes limits on its people and I'm fascinated with the concept of taking these limits to the breaking point, exceeding them and laughing my ass off at every act I write that violates the standards of our current society. Morality is not a constant. It is simply something man created for his own convenience to help hold societies and civilizations together. And I revel in mocking it for its own subjective nature.

Of course I have no intention of acting out any of this madness in real life.

Also, when some of you guys say pedophilia is a mental disorder, yeah even if it is classified as such where do you draw the line? I mean, the idea that a kid suddenly has some sort of greater sexual awareness on the day of their 18th birthday as opposed to the day before is bullshit obviously. Humans are animals and animals start having sex when they hit puberty, this is why the whole abstinence concept is retarded to me, it totally goes in the face of human nature. So if kids are going to have sex when they hit puberty anyway, why then is it wrong for an adult to have sex with them?

It all comes down to our society and the morals and values that it has embraced. As Kanashii said, there have been many past civilizations that embraced pedophillia. There is no "right and wrong", there is only cause and effect. Those civilizations made pedophillia work while ours has created an environment where it would possibly be psychologically damaging to the kid and the adult would suffer legal ramifications. Personally, I like to blame the whole Judeo/Christian influence but I know there are more psychological and sociological factors that are also responsible.

And I don't really think of pedophillia as being a mental disorder, just a matter of preference. I have seen girls as young as 12 or 13 that I've wanted to plow my cock into but I know that could be harmful to them and also I don't want to go to jail. I don't feel bad one bit about having these feelings, I know its perfectly natural to have sexual attraction to a person who has hit puberty. Not that I'm only attracted to young girls, I like older chicks too as long as they're hot, I just prefere a young fresh girl, you know, its like a blank canvas. And as such, I usually date girls between 18 and 25.

What I do think is sad is that nonpracticing peodophiles are hated so much. I mean, if you were openly gay about two hundred years ago you got lynched. Thankfully their situatioin is improving in modern times but pedos are still almost universally hated whether they've touched a kid or not. If I saw a 14 year old and said she was hot and didn't follow that statement up with "LOL just kidding!" I'd be blackballed socially and if word got around I might even have trouble finding a job seeing as how this is a small town.

I think it would benefit us all if society could progress to a point to where pedophillia no longer creates victims and we could once again embrace apart of our nature thats been repressed for so long in western civilization.

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Guest Donagothika

I truly BELIEVE in free speech. I feel like if you censor ONE persons words, that it starts a change reaction that leaves one wondering "where does it stop?"

You as an individual are entitled to a PREFERENCE, however your preference may not be MY OWN---if I like something you find offensive, why is my right to view it any less then YOUR right not to want to view it?

I just believe that writing and artistic expression should be left to personal choice! ^_^

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I don't think there's any limits, but of course I have my personal limits. I'm guessing we've all ventured into the unknown stories that took a turn for the worst. But, even if I don't agree with the content, I wouldn't strike it off as unacceptable. It's fiction, and as long as it stays that way, I'm perfectly okay with it.

Adding to Donagothika so it doesn't look like a complete necro post. ;)

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It can be hard on a site like this i suppose to have a place where we draw the line because that line can be different for everyone depending on where in the world we are and what kind of morals we have grown up with and accepted within our own lives.

That being said i dispise the stories involving toddlers and young children but if thats what you want to write write it just dont expect me or others like me to read you work. I wont flame of course because that would be wrong and i wont troll you for what you write.

At the end of the day though whatever is agreed upon by the mods of the site we still have the choice of what will read and what we wont if something isn't popular nine times out of ten it wont appear again yes?

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There are many, many things I'm simply not comfortable with even reading. Having said that, I make use of the tags in the story summary. If the tags show the story is going to be something I don't like, based on content, I don't even bother to click the link. That, after all, is what the tags are for. This way, it's my OWN damn fault if I start reading story which has content I KNOW I will find objectionable based on personal preferences. After all, if I pay attention and use the information given to me by the author or authors, then I can comfortably assume that I am avoiding the stuff I know I don't like.

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where i live, 16 is age of consent, so i see it that if people write about a teenager 16 and over, having sex with a adult, thats just fine, but under, yeah that would be pushing it just a bit.

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Guest cultofpsyche

I've read the Marquis de Sade and frankly, much of it was beyond the pale in terms of what I enjoy fantasizing about, much less what I like to do in real life! However I recognize the merit of going all the way, and the fact that going "too far" can sometimes actually be beneficial (in terms of expanding your mind and discovering your own boundaries - you don't know where they are until you cross them, and that means that, even if you choose not to cross a certain boundary, you have to be willing to let others). I won't put any limits on my imagination, and there's nothing I'll avoid writing about on principle, although there's lots of stuff I'll avoid writing about just because it doesn't particularly interest or engage me.

though i do agree with rose completly i do feel that we as authors need to have some sort of standerd for our stories

Standard of quality, yes. Standard for content? No. There are no topics, no matter how disturbing, that are beyond exploration either in thought, speech or writing. True, you may not like to explore certain concepts, and you have the option to avoid them. But to say that someone else can't explore those concepts because they bother you is contrary to the principle of freedom of choice. You can choose to bury your head in the sand on some topics, and I will respect your choice to do that, but the suggestion that I ought to close my eyes to the full experience of life because there are some things you can't handle is extremely offensive to me. :-)

just to let you all know the only line that i feel is going to far in this site is that involving minors anything else can stay though i may not neccarly wright about it

I find this point of view to be rather absurd. We're talking about fiction here, and anything you could possibly imagine in your (or my) depraved mind is okay, except anything involving minors? What is it about that one topic that, above all others, makes it off limits? And why is that one topic different from every other, in that any other topic is permissible even if you don't like it, but that one, just that one, is off limits? I could write a story about a sociopath who violently murders dogs and then rapes their corpses, and you would say "to each their own", but if I wanted to write a story about a child exploring her sexuality, that's going too far? I don't understand the logic.

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Okay, to the point. Freedom of Speech is VERRA good. This site is hosted in the USA, so unless the laws change that SHOULD stay. Sometimes squick-ish things are part of plot or backstory... Deal with it like a responsible adult.... Don't read it. Simple, no? You have the right to get as offended as you want here, but not the right to NOT be offended. That would be the rub of it really so...

No. Restrictions shouldn't be there... However standards for grammar or spelling might not be unheard of.... But please no.

:angel: :devil:

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Look its to each their own alright. If you dont like incest, scat or whatever and you see it in the tags, DONT READ IT. Simple as that. I believe that people who write about incest and whatnot do not want to go out and do it themselves but want to challenge themselves. For me, i was kinda squeamish about reading incest and then i wrote an Incest story because it came to mind when i watched the Family guy episode about Glenn and his daughter. It was a challenge and fun. I am still a little sqeamish about Incest but I wont hold it against people who write it.

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There are lots of things i enjoy that would make the stomachs of average people churn, but at the same time there are some things i don't feel confortable reading or writing about that seem to be quite popular and/or acceptable to most people; but instead of being an asshole and blaming other people i take responsibility for my own actions and just don't go read stuff that displeases me.

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in uk the legal age for sex is 16 so I don't mind that with an older person or with young teens if written well what I do object to (but that is my own preference and as someone else said as long as it's not acted upon it's fine) is child sexual abuse. That is where my line is firmly drawn. If I see it in the tags I avoid like the plague.

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Personally, I don't believe in Freedom of Speech. I believe that speech does have the power to harm others any my rights to speak end where they infringe on the rights of others to live their life free from harm. I don't write fics about non-consenual sex, or sex involving children because I believe that the existance of the fics, and the agreement of reviews that the fics are arousing confirms to those would act out these behaviours that there is a culture of acceptability of their behaviour, regardless of the legal situation. When a person eventually harms another, it's not a snap decision they've made: it's part of a process where they've gradually changed how they feel about other people over time. Eventually, cultural barriers and personal barriers are overcome and they're able to commit harm. This is the process explored within Itzin's "Pornography" which was an analysis of widespread misogyny within pornography and the violence against women in wider society.

Regardless of how I feel, the owners of this site have made the choice to allow fiction that I don't agree with to be published here. I appreciate that the fiction is tagged appropriately, as it means that I can just not read the stories I would find offensive. I'm not going to berate the writers for their choice to write their fics, because using the site demands a certain etiquette; although if someone asked on the forum whether or not I thought writing rapefics was acceptable behaviour, I'd post my opinion as I'm doing now.

Personally, I think if you publish writing that includes rape and child abuse as a means of titillation, you sanction that as being acceptable behaviour. That is my opinion on the matter.

Using AFF to publish work is a complex ethical question for me, because I am sharing space with people who I believe are saying that behaviours I find unacceptable, are acceptable. But that's a compromise I've had to make, because there is a limited amount of space for the erotic fan fiction I write. If I want to write graphic descriptions of men having sex, I can't put it with the rest of the PG stuff on FF.net for the same genre.

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Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and opinions. Sometimes writing horrid and controversial things is a catharic thing, maybe even symbolic. It doesn't justify the actions in real life or even make them acceptible. That is the difference. I don't expect it to ever be any otherwise.

Words can hurt yes, but that is the risk you take to be able to speak your own mind as well. I've lived having to watch every word I say for years and I fucking hated it. It wasn't because I was in another country or trying to be nice, no it was out of fear for my mental health and well being. I was put down and degraded for contrary opinions for that period and it was a necessity to bite my tongue and not argue back. Many other people live through simillar conditions if not worse still. That's why I feel so strongly that is a right everyone has. Living without it makes you realize what it really meant.

If it offends you, well bravo for speaking up about it. I fully support your right to do so. Your reasonings do have some sense, and I can admit there are crueller people than some and even those more sensitive than others. The issue would be where do we draw the line? Do we do it for the majority or a minority that is more sensitive and easily hurt or offended? That would have to be answered.

Also in fictional writings, how do you determine what is and isn't acceptible. Not everything that has a controversial topic in it is glorifying it. Sometimes it showing an ugly side of it, sometimes even demonizing it. It can be used to show the corruption of a character or even how evil they can be. They do have a legitimate purpose and place still. That's not glorifying or making them seem acceptible, that's using them as a tool to show a down slide or cruelty. How would this figure into some of what you said? I am honestly curious on what you think about this side of it.

Tl:Dr- Living without freedom of speech sucked and those horrid things can be used to show cruelty and corruption as well as not being used to glorify things. Bravo for speaking your mind, first off. Second off, how would such uses fit in to how you feel?

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If it offends you, well bravo for speaking up about it. I fully support your right to do so. Your reasonings do have some sense, and I can admit there are crueller people than some and even those more sensitive than others. The issue would be where do we draw the line? Do we do it for the majority or a minority that is more sensitive and easily hurt or offended? That would have to be answered.

Well, we have specific legislation where I come from regarding hate speech and threatening behaviours, which I'm agreement with. We've had a few high profile convictions in the UK of persons prosecuted for leaving abusive messages on tribute pages for young people who've died: saying they were sluts who deserved to die etc. Obviously, this was extremely distressing for the families of those people and I have say, I question the value of the speech of those people who posted those abusive messages, and I don't see that speech as being something that requires protection. At no point do I think that the right to legitimate public protest should be removed, but some adults do not have a sense of etiquette or good manners, and the I think law needs to step in where it causes harm. Obviously, it's a tough piece of legislation to write, and I don't want to remove anyone's right to say "change the government!" or "free this person who's been imprisoned wrongly!".

Also in fictional writings, how do you determine what is and isn't acceptible. Not everything that has a controversial topic in it is glorifying it. Sometimes it showing an ugly side of it, sometimes even demonizing it. It can be used to show the corruption of a character or even how evil they can be. They do have a legitimate purpose and place still. That's not glorifying or making them seem acceptible, that's using them as a tool to show a down slide or cruelty. How would this figure into some of what you said? I am honestly curious on what you think about this side of it.

I'm talking purely about erotic fiction where the subject matter is used to arouse and titilate. If you write a book set in times where slavery was acceptable in America, and that's part of the plot: that's acceptable. For example: Neil Gaiman wrote in American Gods about a character who was a victim of slavery and the dreadful things she experienced in order to explain a bit about who she was as a character. I think that's acceptable. If you write something on AFF where a character is aroused by those dreadful things in such a way that it's designed to titilate, I have issue with that because I see being aroused by the degradation of people of a particular race without their consent as being unethical.

I should also point out that I don't have issue with power play or BDSM within erotic fiction where that is consensual. BDSM is not the same as torture used in interrogation, it's not the same as the judicial floggings in some parts of the world and it's not violent rape. I have a serious ethical objection when people get these confused.

I know my opinion is not shared by everyone, but the question was asked, and that's how I feel.

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In my opinion, instead of trying to erode freedom of thought and speech, the government time and money would be much better spent with developing ways to teach everyone, starting when they're young kids, to better react to spoken, written, pictorial etc expressions of ideas and opinions they disagree with or otherwise consider unwelcome. This would help with everything from bullying to racial conflicts and lots more; and of course without people freaking out with non-important things civilization would be able to progress much more easily.

edit: and of course, it would also reduce a lot the wastage of the precious time of the courts.

Edited by Tigro Spottystripes

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In my opinion, instead of trying to erode freedom of thought and speech, the government time and money would be much better spent with developing ways to teach everyone, starting when they're young kids, to better react to spoken, written, pictorial etc expressions of ideas and opinions they disagree with or otherwise consider unwelcome. This would help with everything from bullying to racial conflicts and lots more; and of course without people freaking out with non-important things civilization would be able to progress much more easily.

I totally agree that it's paramount to teach your children good manners, and I support the state stepping in to create an environment where we treat each other respect from the early years. If we were nice to each other, we could make the world a better place!

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I totally agree that it's paramount to teach your children good manners, and I support the state stepping in to create an environment where we treat each other respect from the early years. If we were nice to each other, we could make the world a better place!

You're missing my point. I'm talking about declawing things like disrespectful speech so even when it happens it will have no significant impact on people; your idea on the otherhand, making people grow up on a walled garden, actually multiply thousands times the harm of when it does happen 'cause people will have no experience whatsoever dealing with this.

Edited by Tigro Spottystripes

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