Writers and Bastards

[Guest Zyx]

A writer knows that his story is not his property where a bastard is greedy. A writer feels flattered by fanfiction where a bastard sues. That pretty much sums up the differences between writers and bastards. I'll assume most of the people here are writers, since you embrace FF. People like JK Rowling on the other hand are bastards, and they need to learn some fucking humility. Because stories aren't just something to make you alot of money; they're an escape from reality, they're something to make people feel amazing.

Writers make the world a better place every day

Bastards suck...

[Velvet D Coolette]

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

Archie have done the same (who make the American Sonic the Hedgehog comics). And yet the Sonic sections of these fanfiction sites are among the biggest areas! It seems that being a bastard of the calibre you're talking about doesn't stop people (including me) writing about their characters for a single moment!

[Guest Zyx]

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

Archie have done the same (who make the American Sonic the Hedgehog comics). And yet the Sonic sections of these fanfiction sites are among the biggest areas! It seems that being a bastard of the calibre you're talking about doesn't stop people (including me) writing about their characters for a single moment!

Yeah, but some kid went to jail for translating the new Harry Potter book before the actual translation was published. And some other kid who wrote an entire Harry Potter fanfiction book got sued. Damn you JK Rowling!!!

But I don't know how often these things happen...

[SummerRayne]

Yeah, but some kid went to jail for translating the new Harry Potter book before the actual translation was published.

Yeah, in my opinion he definitely SHOULD get thrown in jail for that. Putting out someone else's work BEFORE it was published and it was word for word? He should get sued and thrown in jail. Thats totally incomparable with anything like fan-fiction. That's taking something that belongs to someone else and deciding what you want to do with it.

A writer knows that his story is not his property

That's absurd. That's why we have disclaimer's on this site because the writer's character(s) does belong to them. You could compare this with building your own house brick by brick and then have someone say, "That's not your property" Like I said fan-fiction is totally different, but if someone is putting out your exact material without your permission (as stated in the first case) that's just not right.

And some other kid who wrote an entire Harry Potter fan fiction book got sued.

That is messed up. UNLESS, the person got a profit for the fan-fiction OR he was trying to pass off the characters as his own. If so, then he got what he deserved. If not, then that's really messed up and if he gets sued all the HP fan-fic writers on this site should, too.

Edited December 24, 2007 by SummerRayne

[Guest Zyx]

He didn't pass it off as his own, he didn't make money off it either.

But about all those other things, you're wrong. There's a difference between being the author and the owner. You can be the author and take credit... but you don't OWN it as such.

And you're not the ruler of the universe either

[SummerRayne]

I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree. Because I believe you do own it. So....just call me a bastard then LOL

I don't mind...been called worse. Haha.

[Guest Zyx]

Yeah, I don't feel like arguing either, but you know your "I don't care" attitude makes you a.... Nevermind, I really really don't feel like arguing.

[Acal]

Lol how can they not be your property if your writing an original story and the characters have got nothing to do with anybody else's work.

But i did hear that JK Rowling likes people writing fan-fiction about her characters but she doesn't like them being abused like minor/minor pairings or the minor/teacher pairings.

The kid that wrote the fanfiction book and got sued probably abused the characters in a not very nice way.

[SummerRayne]

Zyx, you seem like you just don't like anyone who doesn't have the same view(s) as you. And if my 'I don't care' attitude make me anything, it makes me intelligent for not agreeing with every Tom, Dick, and Zyx that posts his opinion in a forum and chastises people for not agreeing with them.

[DarkCabaret]

People like JK Rowling on the other hand are bastards, and they need to learn some fucking humility. Because stories aren't just something to make you alot of money; they're an escape from reality

Okay I have to throw my two cents in here, because what you said bugs the holy hell out of me!

JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter series, not for money and fame, but for children all over the world. I highly doubt she woke up one morning and said "I'm going to take YEARS to write seven books, make tons of money"

NO she didn't. She wrote these books, as you said, for an escape from reality. We all know there are no witches and wizards. Or dark lords running around. These were a way for HER to escape, to live in her own world.

Most people who write whether it be for profit or no, it's an escape. I write to escape depression. If I couldn't sit and write either a story, or blog I'd go insane.

Not all writer's do it for profit.

AND not all writer's make a lot of money from their published work. Some make maybe $1,000 for a 375 page book.

Society decides, not big business.

I'd like to know what said humility is .... do you want us to throw her in stocks and throw vegetables at her? Is that humiliating enough?

Honestly I get the vibe you don't really know what you're trying to say about this subject. If it weren't for the JK Rowling's of the world there would no fan fiction, there would be no books. There would be a world full of people who are so bored and insane we'd all die out.

I'm not trying to sound like a bitch or anything so don't get the wrong idea ... I just had to get all this off my chest.

[Solaris]

Let me step in here.

I have read your posts and you all have made good points in your posts.

JK Rowling started off nothing more then a poor woman who had an amazing idea for a story, which came to be Harry Potter. Now the last two books were not up to what I would call her best stories out there. She has stated that she does not want her characters to be seen in mature stories and yet she has them fighting for their very lives against the Death Eaters. So in a way, she has approved fanfiction up to the rating R.

Now you want to know who is a bastard in the writing world.

That's easy - Anne Rice herself.

She has stated from the start, that she never allowed her work to be edited by anyone after she had her first book edited by an editor. She didn't like how the editor told her to rewrite certain parts of the book. She really needed to step back and look over what the editor had done and saw that he was right, but she took his edits as an insult to her and refused to have the book and any other books edited by anyone. Her books, though good, was extremely hard to read because there was plot holes or various other things wrong with it.

And plus she has flat out refused to allow fanfiction because the writing from her fans was way better then her writing and she saw it, but refused to get her stories edited to be the best that they can be instead that they were fresh from her hand. All of her stories have something wrong with them and she refuses to correct the mistakes that is within her stories. I own four of her books her Sleeping Beauty stories and Ramses. I like those four, even if there is mistakes in them.

I have one book that I didn't want to be edited because I thought it was good as it stood right then but after I thought about it, I decided to give it a chance and saw the improvements that was there and I ended up writing 30 pages more to the story. One day, I hope to publish it, either by self publishing it or by a publisher.

Beth

[Guest Agaib]

I think stating that authors don't own their own work is ridiculous. You may as well get rid of copyright law then if you say that. Apparently you believe that we should crash the world economy for the sake of not having anyone own anything.

Non profit efforts that involve creations made by others should be allowed, of course. Its important to have credit to the real author and the statement that the work has not been created for the sake of profit and merely for entertainment. These are things we already do.

The translation issue was a problem, however. Imagine if I copied down word for word everything from the English version of the Harry Potter books and decided it to publish it Myself. If you don't see a problem with that, then you don't realize how impossible it would become to make a profit on anything and sustain an economy, or at least quality entertainment.

Regardless, if you disagree with Me, go ahead and post a reply. However, I must discourage ad hominem arguments, they don't make you look intelligent.

[SummerRayne]

Thank god there are sane people in the forum like you Agaib because Zyx was seriously making my head hurt.

AND FOR THE RECORD:

I AM THE RULER OF THE UNIVERSE, Zyx.

[Guest Zyx]

Thank god there are sane people in the forum like you Agaib because Zyx was seriously making my head hurt.

AND FOR THE RECORD:

I AM THE RULER OF THE UNIVERSE, Zyx.

Yeah, I'm the insane one

And @Agaib: I don't even know what ad hominem means.

It doesn't look like we're ever going to agree on this... let's just drop it.

And if you don't want to, I'll just surrender or something.

[Guest Knorg]

Have some cheese.

[foeofthelance]

Zyx, I think part of the problem is how you are trying to define "own". Yes, authors do own their original works. It falls under the Intellectual Property laws, such as copyrights and trademarks. These basically give the author the ability to sell and distribute their work (and there is a good reason we refer to things as works of art) without someone ripping them off big time. Some authors prefer to be strict about their stuff, some don't. AFIK, JK Rowling has admitted to having read some fanfics, would prefer some of it doesn't exist, but also isn't worried about it ruining her books' reputation.

There is something known as 'fair use', essentially where a work is bastardized either for parody or satire, and this is where fanfic authors like to make their stand. Whether or not it is fair use is up to the courts to decide, but they've generally been fair about, and either way its not a big enough deal for the publishers themselves to go after people/sites such as AFF, who do it for fun and make no profit. The two cases you cited, the first was an attempt at profit, and I think the second may be one of the "leaked" copies Scholastic was attacking before the release of Deathly Hallows. In those cases the publisher has every right to go after those people. First, as a matter of quality control. Copyrights are tricky things, which need to be defended at every turn. One false step can cost the company the right to claim they hold it. (This is, for example, why Marvel puts out a Captain Marvel title every so often. It prevents DC from taking the title for their Captain Marvel.) There's also a matter of quality control, from fan works. Sites like AFF willingly acknowledge that we're using someone elses world for our fics. From the sounds of things, the two you mentioned didn't.

I've got a fairly long winded tale on the website in the originals section, concerning nthe going ons of a high school. Several people have suggested to me that I script it and market it to the CW or some other teen targeting network. I just might. But if some tried to beat me to it, and trust me it would be rather obvious, I'd be taking them to court to not only get them to stop, but to get any money they may have already made. I wrote the story. I dealt with all the headaches and writer block. Why should I they profit? That'd be like spending 8 hours on an assembly line every day of the week just to let someone else pick up the paycheck.

Now, can authors ask that people not write fanfics? Sure. Anne Rice did it. People don't like her attitude about it, so they pretty much ignore her requests. She can try and go after every fanfic writer, but that'd be like the RIAA trying to sue every downloader. They go after some, get some publicity, scare a few more, and yet nothing happens in the long run. Other authors have made the same request. I know Larry Niven asked that no one write any more Man-Kzin fanfics after reading one that involved a rather brutal interspecies rape. For the most part I think people have listened, because he asked for the sake of his books being respected, not because he was god. And thats what it comes down to basically. If an author asks that fanfics not be written, all they have to use is the respect that their fans have for them.

So fair use is good, plagiarism is bad, and violating copyright gets you a whole lot of lawyers on your head.

[Guest Zyx]

The two cases you cited, the first was an attempt at profit, and I think the second may be one of the "leaked" copies Scholastic was attacking before the release of Deathly Hallows.

Well, I wasn't going to continue in this thread but I just wanted to say the translation was uploaded for free and the fanfiction book was an actual fanfic, not a leaked copy.

[Guest Knorg]

Well, I have only two minor issues to raise with your arguments regarding Rowling.

In the first case, The Boy wasn't sued, but if he had been it would have been justified as he was providing, for free, a copy of a book that Rowling had every right to make money off by selling in France when it was due for release a few months later.

Also, since it came out in translation a few days after the official release then either a) he based it off one of the illegal copies or b) He was a former resident of the planet Gallifrey.

Secondly, the fanfiction you're referring to wasn't but, as Rowling said

From what I understand the proposed book is not criticism or review of Harry Potter's world, which would be entirely legitimate - neither I nor anybody connected with Harry Potter has ever tried to prevent such works being published. It is, we believe, a print version of the website, except now the information that was freely available to everybody is to become a commercial enterprise.

It is not reasonable, or legal, for anybody, fan or otherwise, to take an author's hard work, re-organise their characters and plots, and sell them for their own commercial gain.

And again, I personally believe that to be legitimate fear. There's currently a restraining order in place to ensure changes are made to make this reference book use somewhat less than 100% of Rowling's original material it currently does.

So... two minor problems with your argument there.

However, Rowling did sue over the Tanya Grotter books in Russia, leading to them being unable to be sold in an English translation, (There is a Dutch translation available, but apparantly only in Belgium) so why don't you go get steamed up over that?

I'd best just declare a conflict of interest - I never read any of the Harry Potter books, but I saw one of the movies and thought that bird who played the French girl was pretty tasty.

Now have some cheese.