Naruto Sue

[Inuzuka]

All right, why is it that instead of "Mary Sues", suethors writing for the Naruto fandom find it fitting to change Naruto into themselves? This is especially bothersome as most of these suethors are female.

Also, what is the point of the star system if nobody ever uses it for anything but giving a fic 5 *s?

NII.

[madlodger]

Can't speak for Naruto Fandom, but I see this exact thing in Harry Potter. Many times Harry is exactly like that. I even read a story with Draco/Girl Harry, which was posted in Harry/Draco section. Girl Harry did peak my interest, I imagined that he would be turned into a girl and back. But no, it was Girl Harry in all chapters and the only things that connected with Cannon were:

The name;

Black hair;

Green eyes;

I suppose that it's a different sort of Mary Sue.

People do associate with their favorite characters and write fantasies about it. It's a part of overall fandom fun.

[Inuzuka]

*ignores comment about "part of the fandom fun" because it does not suit his fascist ideals *

...a new form? So it's not just me! THE VIRUS is changing! IT is GROWING! EVOLVING! Becoming STRONGER...stronger than DEATH!

MARY SUE IS GOING TO TAKE OVER

MARY SUE IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

MARY SUE CLOSED THE POOL AND GAVE YOUR FANDOM AIDS

MARY SUE IS BECOMING LEGION

MARY SUE IN YOUR FANDOM? IT'S BECOMING MORE LIKELY THAN YOU THINK.

It must be STOPPED.

I repeat --

IT MUST BE STOPPED.

[madlodger]

MARY SUE IS GOING TO TAKE OVER

Nah, it's not. Mary-Sues and Joe-Stues have been around for as long as any fandom existed. They co-exist with your regular fanfiction. Some people start with writing them and later grow out of them and write different staff. In a way, Mary-Sues are interesting, because basically people are sharing their Personal Fantasies with you. Any voyeristic person would love it, hehe! Of course, it is disappointing to start reading the fic with a cool description only to discover how little it has in common with the Cannon. I quit reading so many fics because of it. But some of that staff is good. It depends on a person writing the story:)

[Inuzuka]

Still, though. It can be very obnoxious -- I'd be fine with it if we'd get a nice warning. I don't like when characters are grossly OOC, I think it's just bad writing in general. Maybe we should establish a standard practice -- if you're Sue'ing it up, fess up. It might drop your hits, but your number of reviews won't change too much, methinks.

[madlodger]

Maybe we should establish a standard practice

It's a good idea, but how do we inforce compliance on something like that?

I am not sure that some 18-year-old kids writing their first story actually have self-awareness to realize it's Mary-Sue. I've read some authors, who went back and reread their old staff and were horrified at how bad it was.

I view any fandom stories as a sort of soup, where we have mixed together fics written by people of all ages, talents (or lack of), skills and agendas. You get Mary-Sues and real fics mixed together. The only way around it I know is to follow good recs lists.

[Inuzuka]

Mm. I suppose. But I would like to see the problem of these faux Sues go away, they just insult your intelligence, IMO. Get a livejournal, you know?

Nyeh. Hm. Off topic, know of any good recs lists? I've been in the mood for a good fic for a while, and though I haven't been too laborious in my search, the fruits of that minimal labor have been near naught.

[madlodger]

I did a search with:

Naruto fandom recs

and one of many sites was:

http://community.livejournal.com/naruto_recs/profile

I haven't read any of Naruto fiction, so don't really know if this is what you are looking for. Worth taking a look, though.

[Guest tireyzah]

After reading this, I find myself wondering now...

How many of these fanfics actually attempt to follow parts of the story that are important to the subject as a whole? Do authors like to concentrate on being somewhat accurate to how the characters actually would react to situations, or do they simply make them act the way THEY want them to? Finally, where's the value in either perspective?

The answers can only be given by the writers themselves; it all boils down to personal vision and what these authors wish to communicate to their various audiences.

Me? I like to keep as close to canon as possible while deviating as necessary on minor points to make the stories more believable, and more my own. I value both ideas, but not the idea of an insane change that completely alters the fandom... because then it's no longer the true fandom you're writing about.

But again, this differs from person to person, and it has almost everything to do with whether or not the story will be accepted or rejected by an audience. You might even want to ask what the AUDIENCE wants, and see if that helps your thought processes and story progressions.

My two cents out of dime-a-dozen advice. I'll give you eight cents change. =3

~Fiyerna

[KildareAngel]

Personally, I like to keep the characters in my fanfictions in cannon as much as possible when I am writing though, given certain situations, this becomes something of a sticky-wicket though and I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how the characters involved would respond in accordance to their personalities. However, if niether the anime or manga have addressed a specific senario, say gay relationships or other hot button issues, then this leaves a lot of leeway for an author to either hang or save themself with. We can only know to a point how a person, real or fiction, will react to a given set of circumstances but after that it is pretty much educated guessing and only the audience can determine if the author has guessed correctly or not. Sometimes when an author changes minor plot points, even if one does not immediately see it, this can have a cascading effect later in the story in surprising ways, very much like Chaos Theory. There is always the option of asking your audience directly what they would like as the outcome of a situation but this too can be risky as well as frustrating since very few readers actually do respond, and, when you do follow the majority vote, not everyone will agree with the outcome. The author then runs the risk of alienating even the most die-hard reader which can be almost as frustrating.

In short, I agree that an author, especially a fanfiction author, has a duty to try and keep the characters they are using in cannon as much as possible. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to completely keep characters in cannon unless you are the actual author of the series. Fanfiction comes with this inherent flaw and, whether you are reading it or writing it, it has to be fundamentaly understood that all of it is done for enjoyment. Writing is not an innate ability; it is something honed by trial and error, in some cases lots of error, just like any other skill we aquire as we grow. A fanfiction author using another's cast of characters has a duty to keep those chracters true to themselves as much as they are able in accordance to the story that the fanfiction author is trying to create, yes, but a reader should be willing to forgive missteps here and there. Authors are human and humans are flawed. If you are unhappy with the way a story plot is going, leave a review and say why constructively you dissagree with the turn of events.

[JigokuDayu]

That's the Author Insertion Sue. Not all author insertion qualifies as Suewage, but that usually requires it to be an OC or a canon character who doesn't get devolped much in canon. Of course, Canon Sue is as common as OC Sue, but there is the common misconception that a canon character can't possibly be a Sue and that all OC's are Sues.

Disclaimers for Sues would be mandatory in a perfect world, but alas, no! In the real world, most Sue creators will become furious at the slightest implication of Suewage. I dealt with this a lot as an RP mod. And the worse the Sue, the bigger the tantrum they threw. I will say that the worst ones were quite hilarious.