Men Flirting with Men

[Asexual Biped]

So, I'm completely retarded when it comes to this style of social interaction. I'm a female, which means I don't get much practice initiating flirting(I don't receive much either, but that's besides the point). It also doesn't help that I'm nearly a true introvert, so I don't get out to many clubs/bars to watch this happen in real-time. So, when I find myself trying to finish a chapter of an upcoming slash story, and it calls for a flirting scene between my main men, I just can't think of what to put. And none of my guy friends that I'm closest to go to these places.

My questions are:

- Do any of you have a specific formula when you flirt? Specific things you do?

- Do you flirt differently when you want an actual relationship vs a one-night stand?

- Are there things you've found that generally don't work?

- Other details that you can think of that may help?

This is open for heterosexuals(men or women)/homosexuals(men or women)/transexuals/pansexuals/othersexuals that have any advice they think may help!

Thank you!

AB

[Shadowknight12]

I don't have much to contribute to this topic, since I do not flirt with strangers on a matter of principle. What I can point out is that it depends on the man's age, his cultural upbringing (this includes country, city, education, socio-economic status, race, etc.), the person he's flirting with (a guy will change his flirting style depending on his target), the place he's at (it's not the same thing to flirt in the intimacy of your own home than it is to flirt in public, especially in stories/places where homosexuality isn't openly accepted), the time the story takes place in, and a multitude of factors. There's no formula or set of rules, it really varies from case to case. What I would advise is to get to know your characters as deeply as possible, and just go with what feels natural. Of course, since you mentioned you don't have a clue how men flirt at all, you might want to start getting examples from books, tv, movies, forums and the like, and associating them with certain personality archetypes ("Oh, so the cheeky young guy is pretty blatant and playful, while the older guy is more subtle and nowhere nearly as blatantly sexual.") and then apply that to your characters.

Some general cases I've observed include:

* Young men looking for sex will be pretty upfront. There's rarely beating around the bushes, since they prefer to go to places where everyone already knows they're cruising for sex. The flirting is very sexual and sometimes light-hearted and playful. It depends on the image the guy wants to show and the kind of sex partner he wants to score. If a guy wants to play the "cute bottom" image, he might act playful and coy, but he might tone it down if he wants someone mature that might find it irritating.

* Older guys looking for sex might go where the younger guys go and pretend to be like them, or they might head for their own areas. This can be just as blatantly sexual, or it can be a more relaxed environment, with guys trying to get to know each other before jumping into the sack.

* When looking for a relationship, some guys act like their straight counterparts, trying to do nice things for the other guy (though treating him like a woman is usually a very bad faux pas), taking his time to get to know the other person before introducing sex into the equation, pretty much your standard stuff. The flirting here is more romantic in nature (sometimes), or just tamer. Instead of lurid depictions of things they'd like to do to one another when they finally find a motel, there's light teasing and testing the waters.

* Some guys are awful at flirting. Whether this is perceived as adorable or annoying varies form guy to guy. Some get a pity fuck, some get a guy who finds his bumbling cute, some get an eye-roll and a head-shake.

* This is very important to stress, because I think this kind of relationship is vastly under-represented, but there's relationships that evolve organically (from friends, coworkers or just acquaintances), where the flirting only appears after the two are in a relationship, and it takes the shape of more intimate teasing. The two already know each other, what they like, what turns them on, and they use that when flirting to keep the relationship alive and interesting.

And now I let someone far more knowledgeable than me take the mic.

[Asexual Biped]

Shadowknight, you aren't giving yourself enough credit. You just gave me great general tips that I can reuse if need-be! Especially the last bit, since I'm going to have the relationship grow slowly. I really appreciate the advice! :]

[wanderingaddict]

you may not flirt with strangers, ShadowKnight, but what about your pals?

hee, I'm kinda the same as Shadowknight, only instead of principle, I'm just really bad at flirting/never interested in it. I like being flirted with (some of the time) but don't really flirt back. I can tell you about the two ends of the spectrum for me though, if you want? on the one hand, there's the type of flirting that absolutely repells me, which is whenever a guy (usually one that I'm already not really interested in) tries to sorta "strut" or show himself off, and that's always sort of a boner-kill. you know, like the "sexy finger lick" stuff that's always used and written about as being irresistable to semes? I dunno, just that whole vein of "ooo look at me I am so sexy" style flirting is kind of a turn-off.

I am an absolute sucker for teasing though. every guy I've fallen head over heels for has been one of those witty bastards that loves to toe the line between "appropriate" and "jesus fuck I can't believe you said/did that". hah, like have you ever heard about that dumb "It's Okay" game? there's not much to it. all you do is simply walk up to a dude, cup his crotch, and go "Don't worry, it's okay." haha, geez, I could never, ever manage to not leap away the moment my buddy did that. that's the whole point, of course- you "win" by not reacting when the person casually cups you in an incredibly exclusive area, but yeah. bold, (bordering on audacious) physical touches make me fall like nothing else. it doesn't have to be under the exclusive handle of a homoerotic bromantic "who'll flinch first" game, that was just an example. kinda get a picture of what I mean though? and actually, come to think of it, a lot of the flirting I've seen guys do is *very* physical. little touches around the body, sitting side-to-side, as opposed to across. and then the self-touches that guys do when they're interested in someone; the "package check" (whenever his hands go to his crotch and he adjusts himself), straightening the shoulders and back, leaning forwards and shit. the whole finding excuses to touch, from what I've seen, happens a lot.

verbal teasing is also part of that same heady elixir. I, heh, dunno how exactly to explain this one, so I'll just give it my best shot; mostly, it's... maybe the dichotomy between what the guy says, and what he means. I can't really think of any... um, heh, less embarrassing examples, so I'll just dive in: one time, my gaming buddy Ossero (we'll call him), who is a serial flirt, was going through a list of things he was saying he'd do to me. it started with "share a gatorade with me" but it was getting more ribald and outrageous, until he was saying things like... haha god... "I'd eat a [popular candy] from your [bodily orifice]". geez, I still can't even think about writing it out, it was so filthy! haha, anyways, my point is, it's not that the flirting was filthy {I've had other dudes tell me- in all seriousness- that they want to do disgusting things with/to me (/shudder)}, but it was really something more along the lines of "holy balls, you are UN-believable, and lawlz do you make me laugh." I mean, it's pretty obvious he's not being serious about the ribald stuff, but the fact that he's pushing the conversation in that direction means his interest is there. haha, know what I mean?

anywho, those were the only examples of real men flirting with dudes that I can think of. like ShadowKnight said, it's usually a lot more direct, and then the flirtatious stuff arises during the actual relationship. or maybe you should just type "bromance" into youtube and watch what comes up? haha, I can't help but think that that might just be easier. I mean, with girls it's pretty clear. guy struts up and either dominates (sometimes even childishly picking on her) or shit like, her and him having long coy sexual banter some such? but with two dudes, yeah, like ShadowKnight said, they're either going to bone right away (almost regardless) or else they're kinda buds/similar and will get their bromance action on. I suppose one common thing to remember though is that, generally, girls are "supposed" to be a bit more reserved. at least, in my own experience, the girls that flirt with me always attempt the coy route, and that's something I never care to follow (see above ).

so yeah, I guess my summation would be that- generally- most guys I've seen flirting are a bit more "aggressive" (and I mean the term very loosely) and willing to persue a little farther, or else rise to a challange when they encounter one. both parties are a little bolder, as there's no real "giving it up" concept for dudes, and there's a lot of space inbetween for them to cover before they get to the point of "okay, too far." that's not to say that there aren't ultra shy guys, or that there aren't bottoms who love to be dominated and want some dude to treat them like a... treat them "poorly" (ha), but I personally have no experience with that, sorry

[Asexual Biped]

Wanderingaddict, even though it was just two examples, they really did help. I forgot about flirting with touch (no surprise there considering my track record) and am definitely thinking of adding it in the scene I'm talking about. The bromance will have to be added on later considering the two don't know each other yet. But seriously, thanks for the examples! =]

And a side note, that "It's okay" game sounds a lot like another game I've seen, and participated in, called "Are you uncomfortable?" or something along those lines. It's nearly the same thing, except I've only really seen it done on women. It where the person puts their hand on either the other person's leg or arm and gradually moves closer to chest or crotch saying "Are you uncomfortable yet?" The goal is the same in both games.

This was extra info, but it kind of went along. :]

[Shadowknight12]

Asexual Biped: Thanks! I don't think I really offered that much, but hey, if it helped you that's awesome.

you may not flirt with strangers, ShadowKnight, but what about your pals?

Oh, yeah, definitely. It's just not 'real' flirting, since it's all joking (And to me, a joke is a joke. I'm not the kind of person that tries to disguise his feelings with humor, hints or mixed signals. If I like you, you'll know. If I'm joking, then that's all there is to it. Unless, of course, we're in a relationship, in which case yes, jokes will be loaded. Otherwise, no.). Though really, pretty much all my friends are awfully squeamish (even the gay ones) so I have to hold back a lot.

Like, the other day, we saw this woman in her sixties who was ridiculously dressed (she was trying to go for 'sexy' and failing. Hard.) and everyone was like "Oh, look at that old hag, she has no shame! She looks hideous! How can she go out like that?" and I went "Well, she has a nice ass, for her age. I'd tap that." and then they looked at me like I was crazy. I said "It was a *joke* guys!" and laughed, but it was mostly at their horrified reactions. Or the time I suggested, with a straight face, to get one of our female friends an extra large dildo for her birthday. Yeah, that went over *well*.

hee, I'm kinda the same as Shadowknight, only instead of principle, I'm just really bad at flirting/never interested in it. I like being flirted with (some of the time) but don't really flirt back. I can tell you about the two ends of the spectrum for me though, if you want? on the one hand, there's the type of flirting that absolutely repells me, which is whenever a guy (usually one that I'm already not really interested in) tries to sorta "strut" or show himself off, and that's always sort of a boner-kill. you know, like the "sexy finger lick" stuff that's always used and written about as being irresistable to semes? I dunoo, just that whole vein of "ooo look at me I am so sexy" style flirting is kind of a turn-off.

Agreed. I don't really care about looks, so that attitude only makes me rise my eyebrow and go "Is that really the best you can do? Show off your looks? Yeah, I'll pass."

I am an absolute sucker for teasing though. every guy I've fallen head over heels for has been one of those witty bastards that loves to toe the line between "appropriate" and "jesus fuck I can't believe you said/did that". hah, like have you ever heard about that dumb "It's Okay" game? there's not much to it. all you do is simply walk up to a dude, cup his crotch, and go "Don't worry, it's okay." haha, geez, I could never, ever manage to not leap away the moment my buddy did that. that's the whole point, of course- you "win" by not reacting when the person casually cups you in an incredibly exclusive area, but yeah. bold, (bordering on audacious) physical touches make me fall like nothing else. it doesn't have to be under the exclusive handle of a homoerotic bromantic "who'll flinch first" game, that was just an example. kinda get a picture of what I mean though?

LOL. Yeah, I'm so glad "gay chicken" or whatever they call it isn't at all common down here. I'm ridiculously protective of my personal space. If you're not going out with me, don't touch me. Unless you're like, crying your bloody eyes out and you really need a hug/shoulder to cry on. And you know, it's actually hilarious, I had never even thought of how I'd react if someone were to randomly cup my crotch. Violence? Though I might also just freeze in disbelief, going "Dude, what the fuck are you doing?" LMFAO, food for thought.

verbal teasing is also part of that same heady elixir. I, heh, dunno how exactly to explain this one, so I'll just give it my best shot; mostly, it's... maybe the dichotomy between what the guy says, and what he means. I can't really think of any... um, heh, less embarrassing examples, so I'll just dive in: one time, my gaming buddy Ossero (we'll call him), who is a serial flirt, was going through a list of things he was saying he'd do to me. it started with "share a gatorade with me" but it was getting more ribald and outrageous, until he was saying things like... haha god... "I'd eat a [popular candy] from your [bodily orifice]". geez, I still can't even think about writing it out, it was so filthy! haha, anyways, my point is, it's not that the flirting was filthy {I've had other dudes tell me- in all seriousness- that they want to do *really* disgusting things with/to me (/shudder)}, but it was really something more along the lines of "holy balls, you are UN-believable, and lawlz do you make me laugh." I mean, it's pretty obvious he's not being serious about the ribald stuff, but the fact that he's pushing the conversation in that direction means his interest is there. haha, know what I mean?

I have only one question: Was it a Hershey? Because if so, that's a very witty play on the 'Hershey kisses' slang term.

anywho, those were the only examples of real men flirting with dudes that I can think of. like ShadowKnight said, it's usually a lot more direct, and then the flirtatious stuff arises during the actual relationship. or maybe you should just type "bromance" into youtube and watch what comes up? haha, I can't help but think that that might just be easier. I mean, with girls it's pretty clear. guy struts up and either dominates (sometimes even childishly picking on her) or shit like, her and him having long coy sexual banter some such? but with two dudes, yeah, like ShadowKnight said, they're either going to bone right away (almost regardless) or else they're kinda buds/similar and will get their bromance action on.

One thing I'd like to point out is that, barring the influence of alcohol or a sudden moment of crushing vulnerability to be exploited, a bromantic friendship that is usually known for joking flirting won't spontaneously develop into explosive sex. If two guys are used to harmless flirting and nothing more, they're not going to just jump each other's bones unless something unusual happens that changes things (like the aforementioned booze/moment of crushing loneliness/nasty breakup needing rebound sex/etc). And even then, 75% of friendships like that bounce right back to normal and pretend it never happened (or it was just a one time thing). Remember habits are VERY hard to break, so the two might not wish to break their comfortable routine. After all, why ruin a good thing?

Unless they're friends with benefits, but we all know that kind of thing doesn't last for very long in most cases. It either solidifies into a committed relationship or it dissolves when time constraints make it hard for them to meet (due to other relationships demanding attention, work, family, etc.). Some, however, manage to make it work, usually by setting aside time for each other (which is pretty much how ALL relationships stay alive). But I went on a tangent! My point was that flirting is not really an indication of people having sex, even if that's normally what it's used for. Don't underestimate the non-serious flirt! Some people simply enjoy flirting for its own sake, and some don't even consider it flirting at all (I, for example, would never flirt seriously with someone I wasn't going out with, but I would definitely joke around *all the time* if I had less squeamish friends).

[wanderingaddict]

lol, no shadowknight, a hershey's kiss actually sounds almost cute. it was a snickers bar, which to me at least is just about the worst possible candy you could imagine for this situation.

on another note, good god I really need to stop coming here and posting right before bed. previous post now massively edited.

[Shadowknight12]

lol, no shadowknight, a hershey's kiss actually sounds almost cute. it was a snickers bar, which to me at least is just about the worst possible candy you could imagine for this situation.

Cute? I um, think we're talking about different things, since none of the stuff that comes to mind when I think of that term can possibly qualify as even remotely cute... (Reference: Urban Dictionary)

Though a snickers bar sounds funnier, even if it lacks the pun effect.

[Asexual Biped]

I think I would have been better off if I hadn't known what a 'Hershey kiss' was...

Needless to say, that's NOT going to be added to my story. XD

[wanderingaddict]

haha yeah I got the reference when you made it. I said it sounds cuter, not that it actually is! heh, I dunno, to me the consistency of a snickers bar, with the nuts and the mouse and the shape and the... gah! infinitely worse than any candy I can think of.

sorry biped, I don't know how any of this helps you with M/M flirting

[Asexual Biped]

haha yeah I got the reference when you made it. I said it sounds cuter, not that it actually is! heh, I dunno, to me the consistency of a snickers bar, with the nuts and the mouse and the shape and the... gah! infinitely worse than any candy I can think of.

sorry biped, I don't know how any of this helps you with M/M flirting

Oh, it really is helping! I've already decided where to put suggestions that both you and shadowknight gave me. =] Now it's just a matter of actually writing it out. But first, my life needs to stop being so freaking busy. DX

[Shadowknight12]

wanderingaddict: Ah, I see. Actually, that does sound like it's far, far worse of an imagery (I've never had a snickers bar, so I only knew it by name).

Asexual Biped: Well, since there's a surprisingly low interest in this thread (odd, considering that this could become an interesting topic with more contributions), I guess I'll contribute the same way wanderingaddict did, citing personal examples of flirts I'd enjoy.

The kind of flirt I like is spontaneous, transparent and honest. It just appears naturally if the conversation heads that way (For example, making a pun when I say something that leads to it). And what's more important, it's not just jarringly delivered like a silver bullet that's guaranteed to 'get' me, but instead it's a part of a greater sum of actions, like spending time with me doing cool stuff, talking about common interests, etc. In fact, I am far, far more interested in hearing about the story of your life or I don't know, your belief system, than I am in hearing your oh so witty repertoire. Firstly, it's rarely as witty as you think it is, and secondly, it doesn't really matter in the long run.

Give me substance, not form. Tell me what you think about the world and humanity, tell me what stuff you like and what you can't stand. What do you do in your spare time? Do you get along with your family? Hobbies? Future goals? Where do you see yourself in twenty years? I'm terribly interested in all that. If I think we're compatible, then sure, start flirting. I enjoy cleverness and originality in all things, and flirting is no exception. And hey, if you don't want to flirt at all, that's perfectly fine by me too. Sometimes there's a moment where no words need to be said, where body language speaks volumes and all you need to do is read it and go with it.

As an aside, this was kind of hard to write, since I realized I haven't had many instances of successful flirting in my direction. Most of the times, it was of the "nice [insert part of anatomy here]!" or "hey, I'd do you!" variety, which really doesn't fly with me. But those are actually pretty manageable, since they're short and to the point, they can be ignored easily. The absolutely worst kind of failed attempt at flirting is when they start spouting stuff they'd like to do to/with you, as if they expect you to be awed by their sexual prowess. Hahahah, no. Pretty much an anti-turn-on. In fact, you're better off with me pretending to be absolutely clueless about sex.

I hope this helps? I might ask around my friends when I see them and bring you more opinions. One of them is a hopeless romantic, so I might be able to give you some insight on that regard.

[Asexual Biped]

wanderingaddict: Ah, I see. Actually, that does sound like it's far, far worse of an imagery (I've never had a snickers bar, so I only knew it by name).

Asexual Biped: Well, since there's a surprisingly low interest in this thread (odd, considering that this could become an interesting topic with more contributions), I guess I'll contribute the same way wanderingaddict did, citing personal examples of flirts I'd enjoy.

The kind of flirt I like is spontaneous, transparent and honest. It just appears naturally if the conversation heads that way (For example, making a pun when I say something that leads to it). And what's more important, it's not just jarringly delivered like a silver bullet that's guaranteed to 'get' me, but instead it's a part of a greater sum of actions, like spending time with me doing cool stuff, talking about common interests, etc. In fact, I am far, far more interested in hearing about the story of your life or I don't know, your belief system, than I am in hearing your oh so witty repertoire. Firstly, it's rarely as witty as you think it is, and secondly, it doesn't really matter in the long run.

Give me substance, not form. Tell me what you think about the world and humanity, tell me what stuff you like and what you can't stand. What do you do in your spare time? Do you get along with your family? Hobbies? Future goals? Where do you see yourself in twenty years? I'm terribly interested in all that. If I think we're compatible, then sure, start flirting. I enjoy cleverness and originality in all things, and flirting is no exception. And hey, if you don't want to flirt at all, that's perfectly fine by me too. Sometimes there's a moment where no words need to be said, where body language speaks volumes and all you need to do is read it and go with it.

As an aside, this was kind of hard to write, since I realized I haven't had many instances of successful flirting in my direction. Most of the times, it was of the "nice [insert part of anatomy here]!" or "hey, I'd do you!" variety, which really doesn't fly with me. But those are actually pretty manageable, since they're short and to the point, they can be ignored easily. The absolutely worst kind of failed attempt at flirting is when they start spouting stuff they'd like to do to/with you, as if they expect you to be awed by their sexual prowess. Hahahah, no. Pretty much an anti-turn-on. In fact, you're better off with me pretending to be absolutely clueless about sex.

I hope this helps? I might ask around my friends when I see them and bring you more opinions. One of them is a hopeless romantic, so I might be able to give you some insight on that regard.

This does help. =] Both you and addict have given me plenty of advice and examples to go with, especially once the relationship develops. The scene I was originally asking for is relatively small; I just had no idea of how to write it. But both of you have reminded me that there's flirting going on all the time, especially once the characters are together. ^^

While it'll be difficult for me to write anything super romantic (me being one of the most logical females I know), having the advice of a hopeless romantic may help. But, you don't have to go out of your way to ask if you don't want to.

[Palantean Writer]

* When looking for a relationship, some guys act like their straight counterparts, trying to do nice things for the other guy (though treating him like a woman is usually a very bad faux pas

Just out of interest, Shadowknight, how do you define 'treating the other man like a woman?

[Shadowknight12]

This does help. =] Both you and addict have given me plenty of advice and examples to go with, especially once the relationship develops. The scene I was originally asking for is relatively small; I just had no idea of how to write it. But both of you have reminded me that there's flirting going on all the time, especially once the characters are together. ^^

While it'll be difficult for me to write anything super romantic (me being one of the most logical females I know), having the advice of a hopeless romantic may help. But, you don't have to go out of your way to ask if you don't want to.

Heh, awesome.

I honestly forgot to ask him. We were having such a good time that the topic barely came up, but when it did, we talked about the guy he's chasing after, who plays coy and wages an innuendo war with him. To me, that's a bit frazzling, but there you have it: Something I hadn't said!

Just out of interest, Shadowknight, how do you define 'treating the other man like a woman?

To sum up the long list below: Treating the guy the way a lot of women are still being treated today, like a fragile, overemotional flower that's only good at being pretty, being fucked and handling the lesser caretaking roles in the relationship and society.

What I'm about to say does not preclude the fact that there might be men out there who find this 'romantic' instead of 'insulting' and actually like this treatment. Don't think it's universal, because it's likely not.

* Implying that the guy isn't able to do things for himself, such as opening doors for him, pushing his seat, saying 'dear, that activity is far too rough/harsh for you. You won't last a second there!'

* Giving flowers, and all the implications thereof (delicate, sweet, pretty, etc.).

* Possessiveness, as if the guy was so inept at life, he's merely an object that belongs (or SHOULD belong) to someone.

* Tying to the above, fighting over that person with someone else, completely disregarding the guy's thoughts about this 'competition.'

* Making decisions for him. Such as "He'll have the Merlot and the Caessar Salad." "But I don't drink." "Oh, don't be silly."

* Implying that he's an emotional wreck that needs to be coddled all the time, lest they break down. This manifests in hiding bad news, making light of serious stuff, and overall patronising.

* Implying that any financial success they've had is due to good looks and/or willingness to put out. Example: "Nice apartment. Must've cost a fortune." "I suppose. But I'm Senior Manager at Squiddledoodlefuck Inc. so I can afford it." "Oh, look at that. Well, no wonder, with such a pretty face."

* Outright stating that there are things that they *shouldn't* do, for illogical reasons. It's very, very hard to apply this to men (Since the typical statement begins with "Women shouldn't..." and saying "Men shouldn't..." would be massively hypocritical), but with some work, some assholes can achieve anything. "Well, I don't think you should drive/work/learn how to defend yourself/play sports/do anything remotely manly." The principle of the matter is that the guy is implying that the other should be just a pretty decoration and that if they begin to do anything manly, their partner will be made redundant. Yes, this line of reasoning is fucked up. Yes, this could spawn a whole topic.

* This one is a bit of a stretch, but complimenting them on their looks alone, or speaking only about their appearance when talking about them. This one can be explained simply as shallowness, so it's not as 'typical' as the others.

I think that's about it. You get the picture. Just think of all the stuff that gentlemen are supposed to do for women, or the way 'ladies should be treated' and you'll see what I mean.

[Asexual Biped]

Heh, awesome.

I honestly forgot to ask him. We were having such a good time that the topic barely came up, but when it did, we talked about the guy he's chasing after, who plays coy and wages an innuendo war with him. To me, that's a bit frazzling, but there you have it: Something I hadn't said!

Thanks! That's good to know if I manage to put it in the story! :]

To sum up the long list below: Treating the guy the way a lot of women are still being treated today, like a fragile, overemotional flower that's only good at being pretty, being fucked and handling the lesser caretaking roles in the relationship and society.

What I'm about to say does not preclude the fact that there might be men out there who find this 'romantic' instead of 'insulting' and actually like this treatment. Don't think it's universal, because it's likely not.

*saying 'dear, that activity is far too rough/harsh for you. You won't last a second there!'

* Possessiveness, as if the guy was so inept at life, he's merely an object that belongs (or SHOULD belong) to someone.

* Tying to the above, fighting over that person with someone else, completely disregarding the guy's thoughts about this 'competition.'

* Making decisions for him. Such as "He'll have the Merlot and the Caessar Salad." "But I don't drink." "Oh, don't be silly."

* Implying that any financial success they've had is due to good looks and/or willingness to put out. Example: "Nice apartment. Must've cost a fortune." "I suppose. But I'm Senior Manager at Squiddledoodlefuck Inc. so I can afford it." "Oh, look at that. Well, no wonder, with such a pretty face."

* Outright stating that there are things that they *shouldn't* do, for illogical reasons. It's very, very hard to apply this to men (Since the typical statement begins with "Women shouldn't..." and saying "Men shouldn't..." would be massively hypocritical), but with some work, some assholes can achieve anything. "Well, I don't think you should drive/work/learn how to defend yourself/play sports/do anything remotely manly." The principle of the matter is that the guy is implying that the other should be just a pretty decoration and that if they begin to do anything manly, their partner will be made redundant. Yes, this line of reasoning is fucked up. Yes, this could spawn a whole topic.

I think that's about it. You get the picture. Just think of all the stuff that gentlemen are supposed to do for women, or the way 'ladies should be treated' and you'll see what I mean.

The ones I left wouldn't be usable on WOMEN, let alone MEN(the possessiveness one may be an exception for some women). I know I'd personally beat down any man that tried to do these for/to me.

[Shadowknight12]

The ones I left wouldn't be usable on WOMEN, let alone MEN(the possessiveness one may be an exception for some women). I know I'd personally beat down any man that tried to do these for/to me.

You'd be surprised. Some of them do veer straight into blatant asshole territory, but I have personally witnessed a surprisingly large number of those things myself.

[Asexual Biped]

You'd be surprised. Some of them do veer straight into blatant asshole territory, but I have personally witnessed a surprisingly large number of those things myself.

Did they work on women?

[Shadowknight12]

Did they work on women?

Depends on the woman. Usually the guy is smart enough not to try it on the intelligent, confident woman that radiates self-assurance. He goes for the scantly-clad one who's after his money or the shy one who was 'insecurity' written all over her face. In those, most of the time they do work.

And in a disturbing amount of cases, some of them work because they're twisted in some way that makes the woman feel coddled and pampered like a princess, with the underlying misogyny carefully swept under the rug.

[Asexual Biped]

Depends on the woman. Usually the guy is smart enough not to try it on the intelligent, confident woman that radiates self-assurance. He goes for the scantly-clad one who's after his money or the shy one who was 'insecurity' written all over her face. In those, most of the time they do work.

And in a disturbing amount of cases, some of them work because they're twisted in some way that makes the woman feel coddled and pampered like a princess, with the underlying misogyny carefully swept under the rug.

That's a good point. I'm making a false assumption that most women are intelligent and logical. I forget that that's not the case.

[Shadowknight12]

That's a good point. I'm making a false assumption that most women are intelligent and logical. I forget that that's not the case.

Yeah, intelligent, logical people in general (not just women) are a minority. Which is why this sort of thing works.

[Palantean Writer]

Depends on the woman. Usually the guy is smart enough not to try it on the intelligent, confident woman that radiates self-assurance. He goes for the scantly-clad one who's after his money or the shy one who was 'insecurity' written all over her face. In those, most of the time they do work.

And in a disturbing amount of cases, some of them work because they're twisted in some way that makes the woman feel coddled and pampered like a princess, with the underlying misogyny carefully swept under the rug.

You, my man, are a champion! *sticks out hand for you to shake*

[Shadowknight12]

You, my man, are a champion! *sticks out hand for you to shake*

Hah, thanks. *shakes hand* It's really no big deal.

[kisakimiko]

Depends on the woman. Usually the guy is smart enough not to try it on the intelligent, confident woman that radiates self-assurance. He goes for the scantly-clad one who's after his money or the shy one who was 'insecurity' written all over her face. In those, most of the time they do work.

I think this bit applies to both men and women interchangeably.

Some women like to be treated like the helpless ingénue (I am guessing this applies across gender). In bed I think this is reasonable, lol BDSM, D/s, RP, whatever. In your day to day life I think it is a little off. For me a successful flirt is one that does not seem to be trying too hard to do it. Anything contrived or stiff is going to fail. I can't take anyone seriously that is too suave or too practiced either. Perhaps this is my own little idiosyncratic foible. Perhaps I am right and it screams insincerity. So jokester, coddler, slickster or smartie pantz you had better be sincere.

Edited November 12, 2010 by kisakimiko