Final Fantasy Snuff Fics

[Guest Soemele]

I voted other, and I'm gonna say Relm or Lulu.

You know, it begins to occur to me that snuff fics are nothing more than character bashing taken to extremes

This is totally weird to me. I only kill the ones I love. Why would you bother writing about somoene you don't like? God some people are weird

[WotanAnubis]

This is totally weird to me. I only kill the ones I love. Why would you bother writing about somoene you don't like? God some people are weird

Yes. Because slow, senseless slaughter is something you only do to your friends.

Right.

[Guest Knorg]

snuff and badfics aren't synonymous. Although if they're simply written as a means for the author to work out some frustration vs a character than they probably ought to be.

I told you Scrappy Doo had it coming, dammit!

Yes. Because slow, senseless slaughter is something you only do to your friends.

Right.

Maybe all his/her mates are the kind of people who have their iPods or walkmans on so loud that when you're sitting there trying to concentrate on something all you can hear is tinny music and it slowly drives you from a rational compassionate individual into Jack Torrance and then there's nothing for it but to pick up an axe and try to create something that looks even more horrific than Shelly Duvall's face with your friends bodies? Would that make him/her a bad person? I don't think so! Justifiable iPodicide!

Jesus, what the hell was up with Duvall's face anyway? She looks like an extra from a zombie movie.

Uh, yeah... back onto the topic... calm down... Maybe we all oughta have one of those sensible, mature 'respectful', no-sullen-passiveaggrissive-sniping discussions up in one of the main discussion forums, since this one seems to be getting away from the Final Fantasy story specific topic and into the general genre of snuff fic? Leave it to the mods to decide, I guess. They could move the non thread specific posts easy enough.

I'm with redsliver anyway; snuffics are not automatically badfics. That's not to say most of the ones I've flicked through aren't pretty bad, but there are some good ones from a horror fan's perspective. There's one dude on the archive who could out horror Stephen King. I like horror films and horror stories, so from that perspective some of them come out very successful indeed.

[Guest Soemele]

Yes. Because slow, senseless slaughter is something you only do to your friends.

Right.

Do, or write about? Are you perhaps getting a little confused?

Believing that people would only write snuff fics about characters they hate is as retarded as believing they'd only write rape fics about characters they hate, which is only MARGINALLY more retarded than believing they'd write sex fics about characters they hate; which of course makes no sense at all.

The more I love and admire a character the more I imagine them hurt and destroyed. It's not purely sexual either. I just think it's intriguing what a horrible place this world can be. No matter how strong someone is or how much you love them, anything can happen. So, rather than live in denial, I own that. Own it hard. Up the butt.

Anyway, I've gotten fairly positive reviews on my work, much of it from people who don't think snuff is actually hot but enjoy my writing. Frankly, I was surprised, but pleased.

[Leonhart29]

The more I love and admire a character the more I imagine them hurt and destroyed. It's not purely sexual either. I just think it's intriguing what a horrible place this world can be. No matter how strong someone is or how much you love them, anything can happen.

(Soemele)

It's strange but I understand where you are coming from on this. Sometimes the character just screams out "hurt me, please” - probably because that is the only way they can come into their own.

Now that's not to say that I like some of the characters I've killed off - it's just that they serve their purpose in taking another character to where they need to be. I will hurt a character I love if it furthers the story, though sometimes I will jump through flaming hoops to try and find another way. I'm that way in life when it comes to my family. I know that everyone must have some pain in their lives to make them who they are destined to be, but that doesn't stop me from trying to soften the blow.

Snuff fics are a way to an end, sometimes fun to read, and almost always gives you more depth to the character.

[AngelMeiru]

I personally like killing overrated or slutty trashy whore characters. Those ones are fun.

[WotanAnubis]

Do, or write about? Are you perhaps getting a little confused?

No, I'm unfortunately philosophical. And technically insane. So my warped viewpoint is this:

Fictional people exist.

Yes, I know, they don't exist exist, but they do have an existence. Unless you're a really bad writer you know these people. You know their personalities, their friends, their hopes, their jobs, their dreams. They're probably more real to you than some of the people on this forum.

I don't mind character death if it serves the plot, or if there is some point to it. Hell, I've killed characters when I had to. But with snuff, death is the plot, and it's the only point.

So to horribly slaughter someone in the most gruesome way imagineable just for the sake of horribly slaughtering someone in the most gruesome way imagineable... yeah, I got an issue with that. To so gleefully delight in someone's death is a bit... wrong to me. I'd almost consider it thoughtcrime. One you're allowed to commit, but one with which you're showing a spectacular disregard for life all the same.

[Guest Soemele]

I believe you're just SPECTACULARLY wrong. Fictional characters have some aspects of real people, but the most important difference is that in fiction, and ESPECIALLY in fan fiction, death is reversable. The characters still exist in forms untouched by anything I write. I have not permanently destroyed anything, just created an additional layer for interfacing with it, or interpreting our world through it. This is ENTIRELY distinct from killing a real person, where the end result is just a corpse. Anyone who fails to understand the distinction presents a danger to themself and others.

But with snuff, death is the plot, and it's the only point.

Isn't that a huge and unfounded generalization?

o to horribly slaughter someone in the most gruesome way imagineable just for the sake of horribly slaughtering someone in the most gruesome way imagineable... yeah, I got an issue with that. To so gleefully delight in someone's death is a bit... wrong to me. I'd almost consider it thoughtcrime.

Now this gets into some interesting territory. First; discard the concept of thoughtcrime completely. It is nothing but harmful and dangerous. Second: Delight? Just because I think it's hot doesn't mean I revel in it. In point of fact it's simultaneously thrilling and saddening. Some stories I've written I was almost crying when I finished them.

To my there's something loving and almost sacred about the lust for physical and mental destruction. If that makes no sense to you, don't even try; You're just not equipped to understand

BTW, do the mods enjoy randomly changing member avatars here?

I changed it to my normal av. Big Boo FTW.

[Guest Knorg]

BTW, do the mods enjoy randomly changing member avatars here?

I changed it to my normal av. Big Boo FTW.

If you look up the top right-ish of the forum there's an ibstore button. It's part of the forum software that lets you 'buy' stuff for your forum account. You buy stuff using 'naughty points' which the software awards at differing values for posts/starting topics/polls.

As part of the aff forum anniversary week you can buy the right to change someone elses avatar or user title.

Outside of this one year anniversary week there's only the magic marker option to change another user's user title or your own, or you can just change your own by buying the name tag.

So yes, some of the mods (avoiding generalisation, for all I know they all do) no doubt do enjoy it - but so do users.

I've bunged you some naughty points so you can buy anything you like from the ibstore that's in stock.

Big Boo takes it from Princess Daisy with a strap on! I have proof. Oh yeah.

[Guest Soemele]

Really? Sweet. Post said proof!

*goes to play around in the store*

[Guest Knorg]

Well, by proof I mean Scotch mist.

[WotanAnubis]

Anyone who fails to understand the distinction presents a danger to themself and others.

Actually, I have a rooted objection to harming people in any way, shape or form, so I don't consider myself to be that dangerous.

Isn't that a huge and unfounded generalization?

No, actually. 'Snuff', of course, comes from the phenomenon of the 'snuff film', where the whole point is that someone gets killed on film.

So death is the point.

Any fiction where it's not merely about seeing someone die, doesn't really count as snuff, in my opinion. Slasher horror, maybe, but not snuff.

Now this gets into some interesting territory. First; discard the concept of thoughtcrime completely. It is nothing but harmful and dangerous.

I realise this, but it was the best term I could come up with. However, realise this: as a schizoid, I live mostly inside my own head. What happens there is often far more important to me than what actually happens outside my head. And by extension, that also means that what happens inside anybody else's head is just as if not more important to me than what they actually do.

For example, someone giving money to a beggar because he wants to help that person is 'more good' than someone else giving exactly the same amount to a beggar because he thinks that'll get him into Heaven.

I'll admit the excuse "I'm only thinking about, but I'm not doing it" does go a long way. But it doesn't excuse you completely because you still think about it.

Second: Delight? Just because I think it's hot doesn't mean I revel in it. In point of fact it's simultaneously thrilling and saddening. Some stories I've written I was almost crying when I finished them.

I know my sexuality is warped, but how can you not enjoy something you think is hot?

To my there's something loving and almost sacred about the lust for physical and mental destruction. If that makes no sense to you, don't even try; You're just not equipped to understand

You're right, I'm not. And rather happy for it too.

But... err...

"Nothing can beat the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison!"

"I will destroy everything! I will create a monument to non-existence!"

"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!"

It sounds to me like you're on the same mental level as Kefka. But I'm quite sure there's a world of difference between the two of you, because you're only doing it to people who don't exist, whereas Kefka did it to people who did live in his world.

EDIT: Also, doesn't the fact that I'm a member of the thought police automatically mean that I'm also part of the Ministry of Love? So no need to mention that twice, is there?

[Guest Soemele]

Any fiction where it's not merely about seeing someone die, doesn't really count as snuff, in my opinion. Slasher horror, maybe, but not snuff.

Ah yes, circular logic. Classy

Anyway, I classify most claims to mental illness on the interweb as sheer dramafaggery. Your personal status in life doesn't affect the quality of your arguments one way or the other. Why the hell should I care? It's like you're saying "It's all right if I'm wrong, because I'm crazy!" That makes no sense. Crazy or sane, you're still just wrong.

I know my sexuality is warped, but how can you not enjoy something you think is hot?

I do enjoy it. Unlike you I seem to be capable of experiencing more than one emotion at a time

You're right, I'm not. And rather happy for it too.

Yay for pride in ignorance! You're a credit to the species.

And re: your edit, I didn't change your title, just your avatar.

[Guest Big Samurai]

Okay, folks, I think that we are starting to cross a pretty uncomfortable line here. Recall, if you would, Rules #1 and #4:

1.) Respect. You must respect yourself, the other users, the Moderators, and the Admins. In all cases, the Golden Rule applies.

4.) Tolerance. This is the universal rule of AFF. All pairings, lifestyles, and 'kinks' are open to fic. If you do not like it, do not read it, do not click on it. The freedom of speech might leave open a few ghastly avenues, but it makes AFF what it is, and it will be upheld.

Keep it civil, okay? I don't want to have to bring the pain.

[NinjaGaijin]

I personally like killing overrated or slutty trashy whore characters. Those ones are fun.

So who, discounting the poll, makes it to your kill list and why?

[AngelMeiru]

So who, discounting the poll, makes it to your kill list and why?

Well, I killed Tifa so far. Her and Yuffie are both trashy. I dunno about Rikku, but killing her sounds fun too. Besides, these are fictional characters we're talking about, I can kill many make believe characters as much as I want.

[WotanAnubis]

Your personal status in life doesn't affect the quality of your arguments one way or the other. Why the hell should I care? It's like you're saying "It's all right if I'm wrong, because I'm crazy!" That makes no sense. Crazy or sane, you're still just wrong.

In your opinion, I am indeed wrong.

In my opinion, you are, I must admit, rather scary. Everybody else kills off people because they hate them, which I can understand. You kill off people because you love them, which I can't.

But my (technical) insanity doesn't automatically make me wrong, it just makes me see the world rather differently. And you need to understand this if you want to understand my viewpoint.

Yay for pride in ignorance! You're a credit to the species.

And it seems I will remain ignorant.

According to you, the lust for someone's (OK, a fictional someone's) physical and mental destruction is both loving and sacred. Because I do not get this, I am, apparently, wrong, ignorant and a threat to society.

Yet no real attempt at explaining why such lust is loving and sacred has been made. Apparently, if I don't get it, I will never get it and no amount of reasonable debate will change my mind.

So I suppose I will continue to be wrong, ignorant and a threat to society.

And re: your edit, I didn't change your title, just your avatar.

I don't care who changed my title. I just wanted them to know they were... how to put this... being redundant?

[Guest Adara]

Me? I chose Garnet. But lemme tell you, Rinoa was a close second. God, I really didn't like those characters. Those no-balls, fluttering in the wind type of women really don't attract me to them.

I liked Yuna at least because she didn't end up running away, she in fact stood up behind those who were with her....not collapsed into a heap of femininity.

[Guest Soemele]

In my opinion, you are, I must admit, rather scary. Everybody else kills off people because they hate them, which I can understand. You kill off people because you love them, which I can't.

It's something which makes sense in fiction but not in real life. I haven't tried to provide much explanation because it's both very complex and very personal; and by personal I don't mean that I'm not willing to talk about it, but I mean that I'm aware that almost no one who enjoys the same content that I do seems to share my reasons for doing so.

But my (technical) insanity doesn't automatically make me wrong, it just makes me see the world rather differently. And you need to understand this if you want to understand my viewpoint.

Right, my point wasn't that being nuts MADE you wrong, but that it was completely immaterial to the argument and the only reason you would bring it up is to dramatize your position. But really, in a logical argument that's just fluff.

According to you, the lust for someone's (OK, a fictional someone's) physical and mental destruction is both loving and sacred. Because I do not get this, I am, apparently, wrong, ignorant and a threat to society.

You're mixing my statements together. You're just ignorant because of this. You're wrong because your arguments don't hang together, and a threat because of your inability or unwillingness to distinguish between reality and fiction.

To start with, I believe I stated it in terms of how it felt to me; it might feel different to others. I don't have time to go TOO in depth with the psychology of it just now, but off the top of my head I'd say that it feels loving because there's generally no rancor involved. I genuinely like many or even most of the characters I write about, and because of the intersection of violence in my lust I express it in violence via writing, where I am free to do so. The reason why it feels sacred (sometimes) is because there's a feeling of stripping away every part of someone and touching their soul. It's like worshipping a character the same way you'd worship a fine meal, savoring every tiny piece. But yeah, that's the problem, any time you try to explain it mostly just ends up sounding creepy

I guess I'll close by saying that, for me and most likely ONLY me, writing about this is a way of exploring feelings of self-destruction. I empathize with the characters to the point where it's just as much about hurting myself as hurting them. Remember, even though to some extent fictional characters CAN be related to as people, they can also be related to as symbols; and, I think, as long as you relate to them in only one way and not the other, you are to some extent crippling yourself in terms of the literate tools you can use.

[WotanAnubis]

I'm going to drop this now, because we're not getting anywhere.

I will, however, say one more thing because it's important to me.

a threat because of your inability or unwillingness to distinguish between reality and fiction.

I know the difference between fiction and reality. That's why I'm not in a mental institution after all.

But in my mind, what people think matters. A lot.

So thinking elaborately about killing someone matters. It doesn't matter as much as really killing someone, obviously, but to someone like me it's very worrying indeed.

To put it crudely, thinking is not reality and it's not fiction. Your thoughts are what make you you.

And you think about killing.

Whether the target of this mental kill is real, fictional or a substitute for yourself hardly matters after that.

But...

Remember, even though to some extent fictional characters CAN be related to as people, they can also be related to as symbols;

Thank you for saying this, by the way, because it explains a lot to me.

To me, fictional characters are people. Period. They cannot be related to as people to some extent. They are people. People who are not me, by the way.

They are not symbols. To me, they are never symbols.

This is probably also why I did so very badly on my Dutch tests.

So because you do not see them as people, you can do to them whatever you like. Because I do see them as people, I can't.

and, I think, as long as you relate to them in only one way and not the other, you are to some extent crippling yourself in terms of the literate tools you can use.

Maybe. But I'm not interested in literature. I'm just interested in enjoyable stories. And like I said, I cannot see the characters in my stories as symbols or tools. My dramatic fluff makes my mind rather rigid and unbending.

But at least now I can understand you, somewhat. I can't think about people as being symbolic - my mind's not set up that way. So I also can't, or couldn't, imagine that, to others, people can be symbolic.

So as long as I remember that your fictional characters are symbols and not people, I think I can almost start to get it.

[Guest Knorg]

Whoa, I guess I qualify as a mass murderer after that last stint on Doom. I sat there, thought about killing those fictional characters, and then slaughtered their pixelated asses. Enjoyed it too. BFG in the face, you got one gibbed imp.

...and don't even get me started on GTA: San Andreas, where I've killed more fictional cops than donut induced heart attacks, not to mention old reliable Mortal Kombat 3 where I grabbed hold of this fictional guy's shoulders with one set of hands and then skinned him with the other set. Yeah, he was some sort of cop too. And those are games where the character backgrounds are pretty thin! When it comes to some of the games where you learn so much more about someone before needing to stick a stake through their traitorous heart (Bloodnet), well, it just shows a total lack of respect for fictional life.

Sure, I could claim I only did it to save the Earth, or because the only way to avoid death in the Arena Eternal was to railgun that showboating prick Xaero or even because Claudia had 'my' father killed, but when it gets down to it those pixels are real! Fictionally speaking.

Sigh.... Jack Thompson's campaign to end all video game violence may gain serious momentum, if the idea that killing fictional characters for the pure fun of it and spending time thinking about how to do better at the killing is bad ever takes off in the mainstream.

In the mean time, I'm off to slaughter me some more pixels.

Knorg,

Mass Murderer of Fictional Characters in Video Games.

[Guest Soemele]

Hahahaha, I really don't have much to add to THAT. But there is one point I need to address:

So because you do not see them as people, you can do to them whatever you like. Because I do see them as people, I can't.

No, I see them as BOTH, and interact with them in both ways; and whether you realize it or not I'm pretty sure you do too. The entire structure of storytelling is based around that idea.

[WotanAnubis]

and whether you realize it or not I'm pretty sure you do too. The entire structure of storytelling is based around that idea.

You're making two very big assumptions here.

Now, one of them I will admit is true. It's why I failed all those Dutch tests and it's also why I think the majority of Dutch literature is so mind-numbingly boring.

The other... no. Just... no.

[Guest Soemele]

Does the word hero mean anything to you?

[WotanAnubis]

Does the word hero mean anything to you?

This is going to derail the thread even further, but...

Isn't that an archetype?